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The Official Saints European Tour 2015 / 16 Thread - Died Peacefully 27/08/2015


Marsdinho

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For those still having trouble :

 

We're a seed, can only play unseeded teams in our pot. They are:

 

7 Vitesse

8 Sturm Graz

9 Charleroi (who are 5-1 up against Beitar)

10 Vojvodina (3 up against Spartaks Jūrmala)

11 Odd (2-0 up against Shamrock Rovers away)

12 Kukësi / Podgorica (Pods are 1-0 up away).

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Question for The9....

 

IF we get through this stage and into the final play-off round, does this Group 3 have any relevance in the draw for that round? Or is it a completely separate draw again where we could get anyone?

 

Apologies if this has already been mentioned before!

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Is there an actual reason why they put teams in pots ahead of the draw or is this just UEFA bloating the draw process in an attempt to make it more 'exciting' than it actually is?

 

(Yes, that probably is a rhetorical question) :)

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What time is the draw today? And yes, I am sure it is mentioned earlier somewhere in the proceeding half dozen pages, but I won't be the only one after this info, and I am sure some kind person won't mind reiterating this info. Thanks!

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What time is the draw today? And yes, I am sure it is mentioned earlier somewhere in the proceeding half dozen pages, but I won't be the only one after this info, and I am sure some kind person won't mind reiterating this info. Thanks!

 

Almost certainly noon (UK time). Outside chance it is actually at 1pm though.

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What time is the draw today? And yes, I am sure it is mentioned earlier somewhere in the proceeding half dozen pages, but I won't be the only one after this info, and I am sure some kind person won't mind reiterating this info. Thanks!

6bdd61a9ff11e7dd5f261ee5924a5af6.jpg

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IF we get through this stage and into the final play-off round, does this Group 3 have any relevance in the draw for that round? Or is it a completely separate draw again where we could get anyone?

It's a separate draw for that round, there's less chance of us being seeded in that stage unless there are a few shocks in the third qualifying round or there are no shocks at all in the Champions League 3rd qualifying round - losers from that get parachuted into the Playoff round for the Europa League.

 

The draw for that one is a "proper" draw, I think, so there's no pre-drawing of pots to make it quicker.

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I've been to Novi Sad, it's Serbia's '2nd city' and a lovely place. Went there in 2009 for a music festival. I don't know what flights are like these days but they weren't cheap back then. We had to fly with Lufthansa via Germany to get them cheap(ish), about £180. Would be a cracking place for an away trip. Cheap beer being a big plus!

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The subsequent post says CET so that would be 12 noon for us.

 

Nyon is currently on CET+1hr which is where the confusion is coming in. The time they're giving isn't the current timezone in the place the draw is coming from (unless of course they actually mean 1300 CET+1)...

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Is there an actual reason why they put teams in pots ahead of the draw or is this just UEFA bloating the draw process in an attempt to make it more 'exciting' than it actually is?

 

(Yes, that probably is a rhetorical question) :)

 

It's so they can draw 48 matches by pulling 12 balls out, and remove the problems of having teams from the same country who aren't allowed to be drawn together without faffery. So it's actually to speed up the draw, not to complicate it.

 

It also helps people planning travel to cut down their options, but frankly I don't have time in the 4 hours available to check even the LIKELY options.

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It's a separate draw for that round, there's less chance of us being seeded in that stage unless there are a few shocks in the third qualifying round or there are no shocks at all in the Champions League 3rd qualifying round - losers from that get parachuted into the Playoff round for the Europa League.

 

The draw for that one is a "proper" draw, I think, so there's no pre-drawing of pots to make it quicker.

 

:adore: thank you Steve

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Question for The9....

 

IF we get through this stage and into the final play-off round, does this Group 3 have any relevance in the draw for that round? Or is it a completely separate draw again where we could get anyone?

 

Apologies if this has already been mentioned before!

 

This one's been answered already since you asked, but it's irrelevant to other draws. The only relevant factor is who is seeded, and that will change as the Champions League losers drop in with their (usually) higher UEFA Club Coefficients. It's why Saints are seeded now but probably won't be in the next round.

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Group 3 unseeded teams seem the toughest pot.

 

Got to be hoping for Odd IMO. At the end of the day, with the PL starting, we want the easiest possible route.

 

This.....flights to Oslo Torp from Gatwick with Norwegian won't be ridiculously expensive either

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we will get Charleroi.

 

I know this because I am in Israel on the 6th August, so you can bet you bottom dollar we will get the winner of their tie with Beitar Jeruselum, and as they are 5-1 up, its a foregone conclusion. So near, yet so far.

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As at 11:05 here in UK!

 

Nyon

Municipality in Switzerland

Nyon is a municipality in the district of Nyon in the canton of Vaud in Switzerland. It is located some 25 kilometers north east of Geneva's city centre, and since the 1970s it has become part of the Geneva metropolitan area. Wikipedia

Area: 6.82 km²

Weather: 32°C, Wind S at 6 mph (10 km/h), 41% Humidity

Getting there: 1 h 25 min flight, around £150. View flights

Local time: Friday 12:05

Population: 18,269 (Dec 31, 2008)

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It's a separate draw for that round, there's less chance of us being seeded in that stage unless there are a few shocks in the third qualifying round or there are no shocks at all in the Champions League 3rd qualifying round - losers from that get parachuted into the Playoff round for the Europa League.

 

The draw for that one is a "proper" draw, I think, so there's no pre-drawing of pots to make it quicker.

 

Really? I'd say there's a very good chance we're seeded for the 4th round, should we qualify. Hull were seeded relatively comfortably last season, if with all the teams knocked out of the CL qualifying rounds.

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Quick summary of my travel findings so far.

 

Charleroi, easy, loads of methods.

Arnhem - not much more difficult, just a bit further than Charleroi.

Odd (in Skien, Norway), not too bad actually.

Vojvodina - a little tricky.

Graz - surprisingly awkward (or expensive)

Podgorica - there are not enough swears.

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Really? I'd say there's a very good chance we're seeded for the 4th round should we qualify.

 

There's not a very good chance at all. There is a small chance.

 

There are 15 Champions League teams to drop in, almost all of which have better coefficients than Saints, who at the moment are the 16th ranked team. There are only 22 seeds in the next round.

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There's not a very good chance at all. There is a small chance.

 

There are 15 Champions League teams to drop in, almost all of which have better coefficients than Saints, who at the moment are the 16th ranked team. There are only 22 seeds in the next round.

 

Do you have their coefficients (teams currently participating in the CL qualifying rounds)?

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As at 11:05 here in UK!

 

Nyon

Municipality in Switzerland

Nyon is a municipality in the district of Nyon in the canton of Vaud in Switzerland. It is located some 25 kilometers north east of Geneva's city centre, and since the 1970s it has become part of the Geneva metropolitan area. Wikipedia

Area: 6.82 km²

Weather: 32°C, Wind S at 6 mph (10 km/h), 41% Humidity

Getting there: 1 h 25 min flight, around £150. View flights

Local time: Friday 12:05

Population: 18,269 (Dec 31, 2008)

 

We know there's an hour difference, the issue is that CET is the same as BST. The timezone given by UEFA is not the current timezone in Nyon, which is on CET+1. I am assuming UEFA has forgotten about daylight savings, and means 1300 CET+1 as in Nyon at the moment, not 1300 CET, which is noon British Summer Time.

 

The fact the draw video has cued and it's only 11:30 suggests noon to me as well.

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Do you have their coefficients (teams currently participating in the CL qualifying rounds)?

 

Yup. But we don't know which 15 teams they will be yet, because only 13 teams have qualified for CL 3rd QR already.

 

Which is why when Steve has clarified this before he's talked about us needing Champions League results to go with coefficient and Europa League results to go against coefficient - that leaves CL teams with worse ratings in the EL, and EL teams with worse ratings in EL.

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Yup. But we don't know which 15 teams they will be yet, because only 13 teams have qualified for CL 3rd QR already.

 

Which is why when Steve has clarified this before he's talked about us needing Champions League results to go with coefficient and Europa League results to go against coefficient - that leaves CL teams with worse ratings in the EL, and EL teams with worse ratings in EL.

 

I appreciate that; rather I wanted to see the pool from which the 15 would be chosen. Does our coefficient improve if we win our third round match; and conversely does the coefficient of those knocked out of the CL QR worsen?

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CHAMPIONS LEAGUE Coefficients... Teams with higher coefficient than Saints only listed.

 

Third qualifying round (draw 17 July)

Champions route

FC Basel 1893 (SUI) 84.875

FC Salzburg (AUT) 43.135

FC Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) 41.825

17 second qualifying round winners tbc

League route

FC Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR) 86.033

AFC Ajax (NED) 66.195

PFC CSKA Moskva (RUS) 55.599

Club Brugge KV (BEL) 41.440

AS Monaco FC (FRA) 31.483

BSC Young Boys (SUI) 31.375

AC Sparta Praha (CZE) 30.825

Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 30.020

Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 19.880

SK Rapid Wien (AUT) 15.635

 

Second qualifying round (draw 22 June)

FC Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) 40.259

Celtic FC (SCO) 39.080

APOEL FC (CYP) 35.460

FC BATE Borisov (BLR) 35.150

PFC Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL) 25.250

GNK Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 24.700

NK Maribor (SVN) 22.225

Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC (ISR) 18.200

KKS Lech Poznań (POL) 17.300

 

These teams are still in 2nd QR - higher coefficient than Saints in bold.

 

Hibernians Malta Match 1 Israel Maccabi Tel Aviv 2–1 21 Jul

APOEL Cyprus Match 2 Republic of Macedonia Vardar 0–0 21 Jul

Qarabağ Azerbaijan Match 3 Montenegro Rudar Pljevlja 0–0 22 Jul

Sarajevo Bosnia and Herzegovina Match 4 Poland Lech Poznań 0–2 22 Jul

Maribor Slovenia Match 5 Kazakhstan Astana 1–0 22 Jul

BATE Borisov Belarus Match 6 Republic of Ireland Dundalk 2–1 22 Jul

Ventspils Latvia Match 7[A] Finland HJK 1–3 21 Jul

Midtjylland Denmark Match 8 Gibraltar Lincoln Red Imps 1–0 21 Jul

Molde Norway Match 9 Armenia Pyunik 5–0 21 Jul

Malmö FF Sweden Match 10 Lithuania Žalgiris Vilnius 0–0 21 Jul

Celtic Scotland Match 11 Iceland Stjarnan 2–0 22 Jul

Trenčín Slovakia Match 12 Romania Steaua București 0–2 22 Jul

Partizan Serbia Match 13 Georgia (country) Dila Gori 1–0 21 Jul

Ludogorets Razgrad Bulgaria Match 14 Moldova Milsami Orhei 0–1 21 Jul

Dinamo Zagreb Croatia Match 15[A] Luxembourg Fola Esch 1–1 22 Jul

Skënderbeu Korçë Albania Match 16 Northern Ireland Crusaders 4–1 21 Jul

The New Saints Wales Match 17 Hungary Videoton 0–1 22 Jul

 

These teams are in 3rd QR already - higher coefficient than Saints in bold

 

Winners of Match 4 Switzerland Basel 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 14 Winners of Match 16 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 7 Winners of Match 5 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 11 Winners of Match 3 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 12 Winners of Match 13 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 8 Winners of Match 2 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 1 Czech Republic Viktoria Plzeň 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 15 Winners of Match 9 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Winners of Match 17 Winners of Match 6 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Red Bull Salzburg Austria Winners of Match 10 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

League Route

Panathinaikos Greece Belgium Club Brugge 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Young Boys Switzerland France Monaco 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

CSKA Moscow Russia Czech Republic Sparta Prague 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Rapid Wien Austria Netherlands Ajax 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

Fenerbahçe Turkey Ukraine Shakhtar Donetsk 28–29 Jul 4–5 Aug

 

We're currently 16th ranked of the EL seeds. Top 22 seeded for PlayOff Round.

 

Every team except Rapid going via the league route has a better coefficient, so there are 4 guaranteed to outrank us already, no matter who goes through, so we're currently 20th, needing to be in the top 22. Added to that will be another 10 teams from the CL losers (non League Route) - 9 of those teams outrank us and only 2 of them are losing after the first leg with one drawing - and possibly one from the Champions Route if Rapid win. This could be offset by unseeded teams beating seeds in the EL.

 

So, as Steve said, we need Champions League to go to form and upsets in the Europa (apart from us!).

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Quick summary of my travel findings so far.

 

Charleroi, easy, loads of methods.

Arnhem - not much more difficult, just a bit further than Charleroi.

Odd (in Skien, Norway), not too bad actually.

Vojvodina - a little tricky.

Graz - surprisingly awkward (or expensive)

Podgorica - there are not enough swears.

 

The number of tickets available to away fans might be an issue for the two easiest grounds to get to. Charleroi is now just a 14k stadium and Vitesse only offer about 1200 tickets for away fans normally.

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I appreciate that; rather I wanted to see the pool from which the 15 would be chosen. Does our coefficient improve if we win our third round match; and conversely does the coefficient of those knocked out of the CL QR worsen?

 

No. They are fixed pre-season.

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Quick summary of my travel findings so far.

 

Charleroi, easy, loads of methods.

Arnhem - not much more difficult, just a bit further than Charleroi.

Odd (in Skien, Norway), not too bad actually.

Vojvodina - a little tricky.

Graz - surprisingly awkward (or expensive)

Podgorica - there are not enough swears.

Podgorica aint too bad, its Kukesi that is the really tough one.

 

Anyone got a link to the live draw, can't find it on uefa website?

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