Southampton and Cruise ships

Went to a corporate event the other day and had a chat with someone high up in Carnival. They are getting pretty ****ed of with Southampton council, it seems every time Carnival want to do something the council just moan. Carnival see it that the ships bring in money and employment to the area but view the council as money grabbing with no input or help. If the council are not careful Carnival will pull out. There are plenty of other docks and office sites that would welcome Carnival with open arms.

The flyover from the Red Arrows was brought up, Carnival asked if Southampton wanted to advertise that the Red Arrows were coming to Southampton and they just said we have no money. Surely an influx of visitors would be good for the economy even if its one day. Bournemouth and Portsmouth seem to be able to spend money on events but Southampton is a joke.

Went to a corporate event the other day and had a chat with someone high up in Carnival. They are getting pretty ****ed of with Southampton council, it seems every time Carnival want to do something the council just moan. Carnival see it that the ships bring in money and employment to the area but view the council as money grabbing with no input or help. If the council are not careful Carnival will pull out. There are plenty of other docks and office sites that would welcome Carnival with open arms.

 

The flyover from the Red Arrows was brought up, Carnival asked if Southampton wanted to advertise that the Red Arrows were coming to Southampton and they just said we have no money. Surely an influx of visitors would be good for the economy even if its one day. Bournemouth and Portsmouth seem to be able to spend money on events but Southampton is a joke.

What exactly do they want the council to do?

Just about sums up our Council all over, it does not seem to mater who's in power they all have the uncanny knack of being short sighted and self interested.

I was talking to somebody the other night and the councils inability or negative stance to events is frustrating lots of people.

The Americas cup was offered first to Southampton but the council werent interested, Ben Ainsleys involvement has meant millions put into the portsmouth economy.

Southampton have a council who only are interested in how many traffic lights they can put up.Time after time they miss the opportunity to make Southampton great again.

When i was a kid,Southampton was an affluent city and Pompey the dump, 30 years of forward thinking and the roles are reversed

One city councillor (Keith Morrell) was actually protesting outside Carnival a couple of months ago.

(seen here fourth from the left)

Went to a corporate event the other day and had a chat with someone high up in Carnival. They are getting pretty ****ed of with Southampton council, it seems every time Carnival want to do something the council just moan. Carnival see it that the ships bring in money and employment to the area but view the council as money grabbing with no input or help. If the council are not careful Carnival will pull out. There are plenty of other docks and office sites that would welcome Carnival with open arms.

 

The flyover from the Red Arrows was brought up, Carnival asked if Southampton wanted to advertise that the Red Arrows were coming to Southampton and they just said we have no money. Surely an influx of visitors would be good for the economy even if its one day. Bournemouth and Portsmouth seem to be able to spend money on events but Southampton is a joke.

Southampton Council has always taken the view that the cruise liners are already here so they don't need to do anything, which ****es off people at Carnival HQ

If you look elsewhere, especially Liverpool, their Council are chucking substantial tax payers cash at trying to woo cruise ship operators to their port.

Question is, as a local councillor, do you allocate funds from an increasingly tight budget away from essential services towards a commercial enterprise or leave this for ABP to provide the right facilities for cruise ship operators ?

Southampton Council has always taken the view that the cruise liners are already here so they don't need to do anything, which ****es off people at Carnival HQ

 

If you look elsewhere, especially Liverpool, their Council are chucking substantial tax payers cash at trying to woo cruise ship operators to their port.

 

Question is, as a local councillor, do you allocate funds from an increasingly tight budget away from essential services towards a commercial enterprise or leave this for ABP to provide the right facilities for cruise ship operators ?

If the city lose more commerce due to neglect then services will be cut more as business leaves. The more successful the docks are more businesses grow or pop up,thus creating jobs and wealth. You only have to look to Wales and some areas of the North to see what happens if there is no commerce.

Is it the top man of Carnival who is a massive Pompey fan? I know one of the top men at the Cruise liners is

If the city lose more commerce due to neglect then services will be cut more as business leaves. The more successful the docks are more businesses grow or pop up,thus creating jobs and wealth. You only have to look to Wales and some areas of the North to see what happens if there is no commerce.

Is it the top man of Carnival who is a massive Pompey fan? I know one of the top men at the Cruise liners is

It would be interesting to know exactly what the Council can do for the cruise ships, or what Carnival expect

I think the Council did pull out all the stops to get the Carnival HQ based at West Quay rather than the option of out of town and Whiteley.

Understand that David Dingle, who is the top man at Carnival UK, follows Pompey

It would be interesting to know exactly what the Council can do for the cruise ships, or what Carnival expect

 

I think the Council did pull out all the stops to get the Carnival HQ based at West Quay rather than the option of out of town and Whiteley.

 

Understand that David Dingle, who is the top man at Carnival UK, follows Pompey

When i was a kid,Southampton was an affluent city and Pompey the dump, 30 years of forward thinking and the roles are reversed

Are they? They might have had decent success with Gunwharf Quay and the Spinnaker Tower, but that highlights the problem that their City port has, compared to ours. They are a port in decline, because the Royal Navy is in decline. Even their ferry business is in decline and will continue to be so with the high prices they charge. If they are such a thriving City, why would the Governement have to appoint a Minister with special responsibilities to improve their economy because of the decline of their docks and shipbuilding industry? We didn't have any such measures granted to us when our shipbuilders transferred their operations to Portsmouth, or indeed when Ford closed their Transit van operation and transferred it to Turkey on the back of cheap finance from the EU.

Southampton on the other hand is successful as a passenger liner port and also as a container port. It is a pity that the Council didn't grasp the opportunity to encourage the development of Ocean Village, but other than that, Portsmouth is still a dump and Southampton is still the more affluent City.

it is isnt just about Carnival. The council had first dibs for the Americas Cup and lost that opportunity.

You make it sound as if it was Southampton Council's incompetence that lost us the opportunity of having the Americas Cup challenge and the Ben Ainslie Sailing centre based here.

This article paints a different picture.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11306716.How_did_Southampton_miss_out_on_Ben_Ainslie_s_Americas_Cup_dream_/

As it rightly says, the Government have given unfair advantages to Skatesmouth and ignored the similar scenario that we have endured with the closure of Vosper Thornycroft and Fords.

I think the biggest problem is the quality of councillors, they all put petty politics in front of what is a collective good for the city. I go to many conferences and seminars with local Architects, principle contractors etc. Not one of them has a good word to say about Southampton. Its always 2 steps backwards and 1 forward if you are lucky. I was privy to the schemes put forward to the planners and the council for the replacement of the Eaststreet and Bargate shopping centre areas. One of the schemes was fantastic, it opened up the spaces and allowed for a much better feel and was within budgets. What did they do, went for a easy simple no thrills grey Morrison's and we got another bog standard scheme which has now hit the buffers. They have absolutely no vision what so ever. Its all take with absolutely no vision for the city. The reason the Meriden site has taken so long to sort out is the costs for the Section 60 the developers were having to pay for, I believe this has now been reduced hence the new planning scheme has been approved. One of the other problems is that there is no accountability at a high level in the council, cock things up and nothing happens, I cock up and I am down the road.

Believe you me if Liverpool get more funding they will try and prise Carnival away.

I work in both Southampton and Portsmouth. It's clear that Southampton is still the more affluent.

However their council are actually trying to improve Portsmouth and offer the locals and tourists something to do and encourage business. Southampton will continue to decline with the way our council is going.

A family member of mine works pretty high up in carnival. He's convinced within 10-15 years they will relocate to Liverpool. It's what they want.

I work in both Southampton and Portsmouth. It's clear that Southampton is still the more affluent.

 

However their council are actually trying to improve Portsmouth and offer the locals and tourists something to do and encourage business. Southampton will continue to decline with the way our council is going.

 

A family member of mine works pretty high up in carnival. He's convinced within 10-15 years they will relocate to Liverpool. It's what they want.

Portsmouth and Liverpool have had access to regeneration money from both the EU and and Government for years, something denied to Southampton. A while ago Brighton & Hove replaced the paving in some streets three times in ten years because they could get capital money to do it - but there was no support for street washing and bubble gum cleaning.

I work in both Southampton and Portsmouth. It's clear that Southampton is still the more affluent.

 

However their council are actually trying to improve Portsmouth and offer the locals and tourists something to do and encourage business. Southampton will continue to decline with the way our council is going.

 

A family member of mine works pretty high up in carnival. He's convinced within 10-15 years they will relocate to Liverpool. It's what they want.

It would be interesting to know exactly what the Council can do for the cruise ships, or what Carnival expect

 

I think the Council did pull out all the stops to get the Carnival HQ based at West Quay rather than the option of out of town and Whiteley.

 

Understand that David Dingle, who is the top man at Carnival UK, follows Pompey

They were interviewing David Dingle on Radio Solent last night. He was looking forward to next year and an increase in cruise traffic in Southampton of about 10%. He was praising both ABP (for the terminal improvements) and the Council (for the access improvements to the Eastern Docks). Didn't sound too unhappy.

That's the difference between the 2 councils, love or hate the spinnaker tower it is a landmark that brings people in to Portsmouth. Would we have something similar I very much doubt that. Doesn't matter who's in charge the other parties just knock back any ideas. its nothing to do with what is the greater good for the city its about petty points scoring and rising up the internal political ladder for what ever party they represent. Historically yes Southampton is the more affluent city but I believe this is slowly changing. Take Saints v Pompey out of the equation and Portsmouth is on the rise. They are getting great help from the Government. Again I believe this is due to better communication and bidding between the council and the depts. in Whitehall. We have lost Fords, Vosper's and other major employers but get very little development funds from Whitehall due to poor quality bids.

I work in both Southampton and Portsmouth. It's clear that Southampton is still the more affluent.

 

However their council are actually trying to improve Portsmouth and offer the locals and tourists something to do and encourage business. Southampton will continue to decline with the way our council is going.

 

A family member of mine works pretty high up in carnival. He's convinced within 10-15 years they will relocate to Liverpool. It's what they want.

Once more I`m reminded of the three great lives of life:-

The cheque is in the post;

I`ll respect you in the morning; and

I`m from the Council and I`m here to help you.

Are they? They might have had decent success with Gunwharf Quay and the Spinnaker Tower, but that highlights the problem that their City port has, compared to ours. They are a port in decline, because the Royal Navy is in decline. Even their ferry business is in decline and will continue to be so with the high prices they charge. If they are such a thriving City, why would the Governement have to appoint a Minister with special responsibilities to improve their economy because of the decline of their docks and shipbuilding industry? We didn't have any such measures granted to us when our shipbuilders transferred their operations to Portsmouth, or indeed when Ford closed their Transit van operation and transferred it to Turkey on the back of cheap finance from the EU.

 

Southampton on the other hand is successful as a passenger liner port and also as a container port. It is a pity that the Council didn't grasp the opportunity to encourage the development of Ocean Village, but other than that, Portsmouth is still a dump and Southampton is still the more affluent City.

Dont the City of Portsmouth have a vested interest in their ferry terminal whereas in Southampton the port it is operated by ABP?

Isn't Southampton's Royal Pier having a major development/expansion?

Dont the City of Portsmouth have a vested interest in their ferry terminal whereas in Southampton the port it is operated by ABP?

Here is chapter and verse of the situation regarding the Skates' port:-

http://www.portsmouth-port.co.uk/about_us/statistics

In the same way that their poxy 4th division football club is the biggest fan-owned club ever, their port is Britain's most successful municipal port

I understand that the Council also bought Mainland Market Deliveries (MMD) when that went belly-up a few years ago.

Gunwharf Quays was built on the site of HMS Vernon when that closed, so the Navy's decline frees up waterfront real estate for them. Ours is all taken up with our Liner berths and container port and what little is left is used to hold the biggest annual on the water Boat Show. Any Liners docking at Portsmouth are the crumbs off our table when our port gets too busy.

Isn't Southampton's Royal Pier having a major development/expansion?

http://www.royalpierwaterfront.com/RPW-Southampton-Limited-Royal-Pier-Waterfront-Masterplan.html

We're getting another Nandos. In your face Portsmouth.

Out of interest, what are Pompey Council doing that Southampton aren't?

I can think of a few things.

Making the utmost of their waterfront location.

Putting in waterfront centres like Port Solent and Gunwharf Quays, which offer thriving opportunities day and night.

Putting in an attraction like the Spinnaker Tower, which attracts tourists and provides an emblem of the city.

Encouraging Ben Ainslie to set up home for the Admirals Cup base.

Getting the most out of the historical significance of the city (HMS Victory, historical dockyard, Mary Rose etc)

No-one is saying we should be Portsmouth, but they've shown what the city needs to do.

Give the city some decent waterfront locations that give day and night opportunities for people to go out and enjoy. As it was, we got Canute's Pavillion.

The Sea City museum was a classic idea of taking a half decent idea and doing it really badly. And the Spitfire memorial is long, long overdue.

There's all sorts of land that could be made available by West Quay for a really good up to date concert arena; an ice rink; a basketball side; an exhibition centre; basically a mini O2 Arena. All those could be done as one building. We know it won't happen.

The council have done us few favours over the past 50 years, they need to get their finder out. Starting with decent wtaerfro spaces for things other than block after block after block of flats.

I can think of a few things.

Making the utmost of their waterfront location.

Putting in waterfront centres like Port Solent and Gunwharf Quays, which offer thriving opportunities day and night.

Putting in an attraction like the Spinnaker Tower, which attracts tourists and provides an emblem of the city.

Encouraging Ben Ainslie to set up home for the Admirals Cup base.

Getting the most out of the historical significance of the city (HMS Victory, historical dockyard, Mary Rose etc)

 

No-one is saying we should be Portsmouth, but they've shown what the city needs to do.

Give the city some decent waterfront locations that give day and night opportunities for people to go out and enjoy. As it was, we got Canute's Pavillion.

The Sea City museum was a classic idea of taking a half decent idea and doing it really badly. And the Spitfire memorial is long, long overdue.

There's all sorts of land that could be made available by West Quay for a really good up to date concert arena; an ice rink; a basketball side; an exhibition centre; basically a mini O2 Arena. All those could be done as one building. We know it won't happen.

 

The council have done us few favours over the past 50 years, they need to get their finder out. Starting with decent wtaerfro spaces for things other than block after block after block of flats.

Isn't that what the Royal Pier Development is going to be?

Is it?

I think the whole point (which you might have missed) is that Portsmouth already have those things. They've had them for many years. We haven't. Their council and city planning aren't perfect by any means, but they are light years ahead of Southampton.

So I guess my question would be; when do we catch up? If the "Royal Pier Development" is your idea of us catching up, then f*ck me, God help us.

So'ton as a city is massively behind where it should be. It is affluent has perfect transport links and on the coast. Yet it is ugly, has nothing to do apart from go shopping, and is massively behind the times in terms of evening entertainment and social engagement.

Basically, we make very little of the wonderful location and resources at our disposal.

Is it?

 

I think the whole point (which you might have missed) is that Portsmouth already have those things. They've had them for many years. We haven't. Their council and city planning aren't perfect by any means, but they are light years ahead of Southampton.

 

So I guess my question would be; when do we catch up? If the "Royal Pier Development" is your idea of us catching up, then f*ck me, God help us.

 

So'ton as a city is massively behind where it should be. It is affluent has perfect transport links and on the coast. Yet it is ugly, has nothing to do apart from go shopping, and is massively behind the times in terms of evening entertainment and social engagement.

 

Basically, we make very little of the wonderful location and resources at our disposal.

What point have I missed? The thread is questioning what the council of Southampton are doing to make the city an attractive place to visit, I've just asked if they aren't currently doing things to address that.

Not sure why you're getting so worked up.

What point have I missed? The thread is questioning what the council of Southampton are doing to make the city an attractive place to visit, I've just asked if they aren't currently doing things to address that.

 

Not sure why you're getting so worked up.

Goodness me, the predicable retort. "You're getting worked up". Yep, I definitely don't miss this place. Is that really all you have? Dear me.

In any case, my last of 3 posts. All of points I addressed, in response to your original question "Isn't that what the Royal Pier Development is going to be?". The whole point is that Portsmouth have already done that. Has Southampton? No. I have no posts left, you tell me the thing what Southampton does better than Portsmouth (other than a massively better football side and a 100000000% better stadium and fanbase)??

Goodness me, the predicable retort. "You're getting worked up". Yep, I definitely don't miss this place. Is that really all you have? Dear me.

 

In any case, my last of 3 posts. All of points I addressed, in response to your original question "Isn't that what the Royal Pier Development is going to be?". The whole point is that Portsmouth have already done that. Has Southampton? No. I have no posts left, you tell me the thing what Southampton does better than Portsmouth (other than a massively better football side and a 100000000% better stadium and fanbase)??

Well you seem upset about it all, f**k knows why.

What a lot of ****ing **** on this thread. Ben ainsley wanted a place built on CQ for free, then up pops Cameron who shuts down BAE in Pompey then shovels a couple of mill to put the boat race in Pompey.

The Tories have cut getting on for 50+ million in funding for our council. Jobs lost in their many hundreds. You want all you libraries and care centres plus advertising for the money machine that is carnival?

Sweet Jesus. Carnival are doing all right and aren't going anywhere.

Thank for that, that would be great. Our city councillors do seem to lack the ambition of Portsmouth. I don't think our city gets a fair deal at all however, with over 50,000 more residents you would think we could! We need to attract outside investment, and get everything we can get to improve the city, a city with real potential and great people. When they allowed the wool house to be used by as a pub I was very impressed. So the upkeep of the building is maintained and jobs created privately, something needs to happen to that other building now, the one which was the archiology museum needs to be sold off now, so that can be made profitable, same as the bargate, and vaults in the city. Red tape has to go, and attracting manufacturing jobs at the old ford plant and centenary query also?

Also we need to source services externally to get the best deal, like refuse collection. And share more services with other councils to be more cost effective. I want the council to help fund the spitfire monument more so also, Portsmouth built their tower, and now have a sponsorship deal, a source of income!

So many opportunities, but too much red tape. Those old gas towers near st Marys must be kept, but by offering opportunities to construction company's how they would use them within plans.

I remember when they said lights on the bridge will be blue and we all complained... Did they listen... No. I fear our council fail to see themselves as working for the city, rather, the city works for them and there little soap of moaning, resignations and more moaning.

Thanks for that about the royal peer, that would be great. Our city councillors do seem to lack the ambition of Portsmouth. I don't think our city gets a fair deal at all however, with over 50,000 more residents you would think we could! We need to attract outside investment, and get everything we can get to improve the city, a city with real potential and great people. When they allowed the wool house to be used by as a pub I was very impressed. So the upkeep of the building is maintained and jobs created privately, something needs to happen to that other building now, the one which was the archiology museum needs to be sold off now, so that can be made profitable, same as the bargate, and vaults in the city. Red tape has to go, and attracting manufacturing jobs at the old ford plant and centenary query also?

Also we need to source services externally to get the best deal, like refuse collection. And share more services with other councils to be more cost effective. I want the council to help fund the spitfire monument more so also, Portsmouth built their tower, and now have a sponsorship deal, a source of income!

So many opportunities, but too much red tape. Those old gas towers near st Marys must be kept, but by offering opportunities to construction company's how they would use them within plans.

I remember when they said lights on the bridge will be blue and we all complained... Did they listen... No. I fear our council fail to see themselves as working for the city, rather, the city works for them and there little soap of moaning, resignations and more moaning.

Well you seem upset about it all, f**k knows why.

I can't see any upset from The Kraken whatsoever.

I see The Kraken answer the question you asked and you left with no where to go apart from the old "you're getting worked up" routine.

Kinda makes me wonder why you're getting so worked up about this topic. Why are you so upset?

I can't see any upset from The Kraken whatsoever.

 

I see The Kraken answer the question you asked and you left with no where to go apart from the old "you're getting worked up" routine.

 

Kinda makes me wonder why you're getting so worked up about this topic. Why are you so upset?

Good level of interesting input from yourself as usual, you are an interesting character you weirdo

So he answers whether the Royal Pier Development is going to be a waterfront development similar to Gunwharf or not that he wants?

 

Good level of interesting input from yourself as usual, you are an interesting character you weirdo [emoji38]

Here's Kraken's post

 

No-one is saying we should be Portsmouth, but they've shown what the city needs to do.

Give the city some decent waterfront locations that give day and night opportunities for people to go out and enjoy. As it was, we got Canute's Pavillion.

The Sea City museum was a classic idea of taking a half decent idea and doing it really badly. And the Spitfire memorial is long, long overdue.

There's all sorts of land that could be made available by West Quay for a really good up to date concert arena; an ice rink; a basketball side; an exhibition centre; basically a mini O2 Arena. All those could be done as one building. We know it won't happen.

Your question was this

Isn't that what the Royal Pier Development is going to be?

To which the answer is categorically no.

Fair play to you getting all damp about some flats, plus a Genting Casino and if we all hope and pray a branch of Las Iguanas.

You do seem awfully upset about all this, I have to say.

Except Gunwharf, Portsmouth is an absolute cesspit. Their council do try, yet ultimately fail. The inhabitants are just poorer, fatter, uglier and less hygienic and nothing the local council does can change that.

Have they tried a sheep dip?

Talking to a senior officer when we were on board Ventura in April of this year a move to Liverpool would put not only the price of the average cruise up but in a lot of cases you could have to add an extra day or two sea days to a cruise and you could end up having less ports of call which would not go down to well with they paying public.

Taking to a senior officer when we were on board Ventura in April of this year a move to Liverpool would put not only the price of the average cruise up but in a lot of cases you could have to add an extra day or two sea days to a cruise and you could end up having less ports of call which would not go down to well with they paying public.

But handy for the twitchers going to Norway in search of the elusive Norwegian Blue Parrot.

But handy for the twitchers going to Norway in search of the elusive Norwegian Blue Parrot.

Not even. Southampton is closer.

Not even. Southampton is closer.

To southern Norway, Oslo, even Stavangar, yes. But Liverpool is closer to the habitat of the Norwegian Blue in the Trondheim area.

To southern Norway, Oslo, even Stavangar, yes. But Liverpool is closer to the habitat of the Norwegian Blue in the Trondheim area.

P&O only go up there at certain times of the year which is about less than 1% of cruises that depart from Southampton which is just to see the Northern Lights.

Goodness me, the predicable retort. "You're getting worked up". Yep, I definitely don't miss this place. Is that really all you have? Dear me.

 

In any case, my last of 3 posts. All of points I addressed, in response to your original question "Isn't that what the Royal Pier Development is going to be?". The whole point is that Portsmouth have already done that. Has Southampton? No. I have no posts left, you tell me the thing what Southampton does better than Portsmouth (other than a massively better football side and a 100000000% better stadium and fanbase)??

The royal Pier development was held up for years by the Crown Estates refusal to deal the land, either as a JV or by way of a sale. They have finally relented. The Council have been after development here for years and it is certainly not their fault when they have procrastination by landlords.

Hopefully, it will be a terrific development that will add hugely to the City.

I think it is a bit choice to say that there is nothing to do in the City apart from go shopping. There is a decent arts scene, about to get better with the new arts quarter, there are plenty of places to eat, drink and dance, decent theatre, lovely open spaces, close proximity to the sea and the forest as well as some half decent music. But ultimately, what makes a place are the people. Perhaps the City is better of without those whose glass is half empty.

I don't get why people think Gunwharf is so great? Obvious shops, predictable restaurants, shockingly expensive parking. The marina bit looks alright and the Spinnaker is fine if you like tall things but it really isn't that interesting.

P&O only go up there at certain times of the year which is about less than 1% of cruises that depart from Southampton which is just to see the Northern Lights.

The standard run to the Norwegian fjords tends to be in high summer, which is pretty useless for Northern lights. They have started to run Oriana up to Tromsø a couple of times in March which are specifically for the lights. For almost all other destinations Southampton is several hours steaming nearer which is very important in today's cruise world of slower speeds.

I don't get why people think Gunwharf is so great? Obvious shops, predictable restaurants, shockingly expensive parking. The marina bit looks alright and the Spinnaker is fine if you like tall things but it really isn't that interesting.

It's full of outlet shops selling seconds and inferior products. My wife loves it ?

There will be exhibitions at Kutis Gatehouse displaying the plans to redevelop Royal Pier Waterfront and a larger improved Mayflower Park on 10 and 11 July.

It's full of outlet shops selling seconds and inferior products. My wife loves it

Exactly. It's the tat Next and M&S can't sell in their normal stores. Oh, I forgot the Superdry shop so you can have a T-shirt with the same logo as 87% of other people and the Chinese restaurant with a 0 food rating.

the Chinese restaurant with a 0 food rating.

Food rating or hygiene rating?

There will be exhibitions at Kutis Gatehouse displaying the plans to redevelop Royal Pier Waterfront and a larger improved Mayflower Park on 10 and 11 July.

Meh. There have been endless plans to revamp Mayflower Park but very little has happened apart from taking away its best feature, the big slide. Have they actually got the money and a main contractor?