Budget

Still some are doing fine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33463864

[/img]

Here you go

Thanks

new car tax....

is those sky high prices JUST for year 1 of registration?

also, no MOT for 4 years?

If you're going to be condescending its best to be right. Government debt is the figure which matters and that has been rising consistently year on year since 2003.

 

Thanks bankers. And still not one day of UK jail time.

"Chris Leslie, the 43-year-old Labour Shadow Chancellor, argued that an average single parent would gain around £400 a year from the inception of the compulsory Living Wage but will simultaneously lose around £860 in tax credits. He also pointed out that from 2017, parents with two children will receive no housing benefits or universal credits." - I don't think it's about being 'a lefty', I think it's about understanding the basic principles of mathematics.

Still £1 more an hour than labours manifesto promise. Surely lefties will think that's a good thing, or does their hatred of the Tories trump that?

Was supposed to quote this above...

new car tax....

is those sky high prices JUST for year 1 of registration?

also, no MOT for 4 years?

First year VED is based on CO2 emissions rating, after that it's £140, and MOT will be due after 4 years.

First year VED is based on CO2 emissions rating, after that it's £140, and MOT will be due after 4 years.

daft question.

that is not year 1 of YOUR own registration as the owner

but just year 1 of the cars life if you get me

daft question.

that is not year 1 of YOUR own registration as the owner

but just year 1 of the cars life if you get me

First year of life of a new car.

First year of life of a new car.

cheers

I don't think it's about being 'a lefty', I think it's about understanding the basic principles of mathematics.

I think it's about lefties fighting the 2015 election over and over again . The Tories have a mandate to cut welfare massively . As lefties pointed out , this would include in work benefits , yet the electorate gave them the ok to go ahead . You can't cut your cloth by taxing " millionaires" or " the bankers" only .

Personally I'd have blown a hole in middle class benefits as well . No more family allowance , winter fuel payments or free TV licences .

Had a discussion at work earlier, nobody knew as we're all net contributors etc, with the new benefit max of £20/£23k, do they then get taxed on that?

If not, it is still beneficial to remain part of the current under aspiring underclass for £20/sub20k salary for a household, which won't inspire those who may have ambition to work rather than claim..

I think it's about lefties fighting the 2015 election over and over again . The Tories have a mandate to cut welfare massively . As lefties pointed out , this would include in work benefits , yet the electorate gave them the ok to go ahead . You can't cut your cloth by taxing " millionaires" or " the bankers" only .

 

Personally I'd have blown a hole in middle class benefits as well . No more family allowance , winter fuel payments or free TV licences .

The arguing is not about cutting the deficit its about how the pain is shared. Look at the IFS graphic. The poorest people are losing around 10% of their income whilst the richest are losing less than 0.5% and the next tier down are gaining. You could have achieved the same result by cutting everybody by c2% and no-one would have noticed.

The arguing is not about cutting the deficit its about how the pain is shared. Look at the IFS graphic. The poorest people are losing around 10% of their income whilst the richest are losing less than 0.5% and the next tier down are gaining. You could have achieved the same result by cutting everybody by c2% and no-one would have noticed.

The richest have never paid a higher % of tax take as they do now .

Have you learnt nothing from the past 40 years or from France . If you tax the rich too much you get less revenue in . It's also immoral to take more than 50% of a mans wages from him .

Anyway what's " fair" . Surely fair is everybody pays the same % .

At the end of the day , the electorate decided what they wanted and the Tories are delivering it.

I think it's about lefties fighting the 2015 election over and over again . The Tories have a mandate to cut welfare massively . As lefties pointed out , this would include in work benefits , yet the electorate gave them the ok to go ahead . You can't cut your cloth by taxing " millionaires" or " the bankers" only .

 

Personally I'd have blown a hole in middle class benefits as well . No more family allowance , winter fuel payments or free TV licences .

What about the £70Billion cost to the economy from corporate tax avoidance? (in comparison to the estimated cost of welfare fraud at £1Billion) or families in the lower economic quartile footing the costs of quantitative easing to bail out banks? cuts to ILA, EMA (not to mention the huge rise in tuition fees) has left the most vulnerable members of society unable to access education, unable to earn a decent wage and unable to afford property as the tories 'right-to-buy' scheme sees middle-class families buying up council homes resulting in reduced availability of social housing with greater demand (and therefore cost), these individuals are then forced to live in council estates which sees higher levels of crime, unemployment, welfare (bearing in mind there is no longer vast industry to support these communities... nice one Thatcher) whilst right wing newspapers (who claim to support the 'working man') such as the Sun, or the Daily Mail can hunt out individual 'benefit scroungers' or 'neglectful parents' or 'immigrants' and portray this as the face of the working class' creating tension and resentment between sub groups (i.e sub-groups within the working-class attacking each other... all whilst the richest 10% have doubled their worth over the past ten years.. The free-market economy ****ed this country (along with Thatchers attack on socialism/unions in the 80's) now the working class are paying for it whilst the rich get richer (whilst Osborne claims we are 'all in this together' [whilst accepting a 10% pay rise this year]) through austerity. This isn't conspiracy theories and some 'lefty' agenda.. this is simple facts and figures. As Owen Jones quite rightly said "demonisation is the ideological backbone of an unequal society"

What about the £70Billion cost to the economy from corporate tax avoidance? (in comparison to the estimated cost of welfare fraud at £1Billion) or families in the lower economic quartile footing the costs of quantitative easing to bail out banks? cuts to ILA, EMA (not to mention the huge rise in tuition fees) has left the most vulnerable members of society unable to access education, unable to earn a decent wage and unable to afford property as the tories 'right-to-buy' scheme sees middle-class families buying up council homes resulting in reduced availability of social housing with greater demand (and therefore cost), these individuals are then forced to live in council estates which sees higher levels of crime, unemployment, welfare (bearing in mind there is no longer vast industry to support these communities... nice one Thatcher) whilst right wing newspapers (who claim to support the 'working man') such as the Sun, or the Daily Mail can hunt out individual 'benefit scroungers' or 'neglectful parents' or 'immigrants' and portray this as the face of the working class' creating tension and resentment between sub groups (i.e sub-groups within the working-class attacking each other... all whilst the richest 10% have doubled their worth over the past ten years.. The free-market economy ****ed this country (along with Thatchers attack on socialism/unions in the 80's) now the working class are paying for it whilst the rich get richer (whilst Osborne claims we are 'all in this together' [whilst accepting a 10% pay rise this year]) through austerity. This isn't conspiracy theories and some 'lefty' agenda.. this is simple facts and figures. As Owen Jones quite rightly said "demonisation is the ideological backbone of an unequal society"

AMEN to that.

Remember this during the election campaign? https://twitter.com/twcuddleston/status/619084622144634880/video/1

The richest have never paid a higher % of tax take as they do now .

 

Have you learnt nothing from the past 40 years or from France . If you tax the rich too much you get less revenue in . It's also immoral to take more than 50% of a mans wages from him .

 

Anyway what's " fair" . Surely fair is everybody pays the same % .

 

At the end of the day , the electorate decided what they wanted and the Tories are delivering it.

1 in 4 adults voted Tory.

Remember this during the election campaign? https://twitter.com/twcuddleston/status/619084622144634880/video/1

What, politicians deliberately deceiving the electorate? Well I never...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447991

Reducing the rate of tax relief for landlords is a small start to tackling housing affordability however it's fairly small reduction and so gradual that it appears to be nothing more than token gesture to give the budget some balance. It doesn't go far enough in tackling the housing bubble the BoE has warned of.

I can't understand what justification there is to effectively subsidise private landlords in the first place, and to be honest I don't think there should even be such things as buy-to-let mortgages in the first place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447991

 

Reducing the rate of tax relief for landlords is a small start to tackling housing affordability however it's fairly small reduction and so gradual that it appears to be nothing more than token gesture to give the budget some balance. It doesn't go far enough in tackling the housing bubble the BoE has warned of.

 

I can't understand what justification there is to effectively subsidise private landlords in the first place, and to be honest I don't think there should even be such things as buy-to-let mortgages in the first place.

And in many cases, they're subsidised twice as tenants can be in receipt of housing benefits funded by the taxpayer.

God you lefties won't let it go will you ?

Why don't we have an election and let democracy reign . Whoever wins the most seats gets to right to make budgetary choices and the losers stfu and accept the result.

1 in 4 adults voted Tory.

Remind us how the anti-austerity parties got on?

God you lefties won't let it go will you ?

 

Why don't we have an election and let democracy reign . Whoever wins the most seats gets to right to make budgetary choices and the losers stfu and accept the result.

Don't the individual parts of the budget have to get voted through parliament?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447991

 

Reducing the rate of tax relief for landlords is a small start to tackling housing affordability however it's fairly small reduction and so gradual that it appears to be nothing more than token gesture to give the budget some balance. It doesn't go far enough in tackling the housing bubble the BoE has warned of.

 

I can't understand what justification there is to effectively subsidise private landlords in the first place, and to be honest I don't think there should even be such things as buy-to-let mortgages in the first place.

tax relief has been around on buy to let for decades, what changed was that interest rates fell to historic lows which meant that buy to let was the best option for investment returns, hence the increase. If you turned off the relief all at once, the potential impact on the housing market would be significant. As in all things, it is better to wean people off slowly. This tax relief will be removed within this parliament

God you lefties won't let it go will you ?

 

Why don't we have an election and let democracy reign . Whoever wins the most seats gets to right to make budgetary choices and the losers stfu and accept the result.

Yeah, so all the 30,000,000 people who didn't vote Tory just stfu!

Yeah, so all the 30,000,000 people who didn't vote Tory just stfu!

At the very least the 33% who didn't bother turning up should indeed stfu!

It was the highest turnout since Blair. Yet I do not remember placards and protests when only 59% turned out in 2001.

[vine]enI3Wn2JFhO[/vine]

That is the most horrific video I've seen in years. Let's all cheer taking shedloads of money from the working class!

Either way, you get the government you vote for...So, you know, never mind I don't think there's any way back from this.

God you lefties won't let it go will you ?

 

Why don't we have an election and let democracy reign . Whoever wins the most seats gets to right to make budgetary choices and the losers stfu and accept the result.

Lord Duckhunter, you have your opinions but you know, us lefties do get a bit upset with the desctruction of the welfare state, the national health service and generally a safety net incase, you know, the worst happens and you get sick and can't work.

Lor Duckhunter, you have your opinions but you know, us lefties do get a bit upset with the desctruction of the welfare state, the national health service and generally a safety net incase, you know, the worst happens and you get sick and can't work.

Downsizing and destruction are not the same thing you know.

Come to mention it, how can you destroy the NHS by pouring more money into it? Is that the same principle as Labour commissioning more hospitals then leaving the next administration the bill? (But they are so evil!!!! Having to pay for our contractual obligations.....)

Yeah, so all the 30,000,000 people who didn't vote Tory just stfu!

They don't need to 'stfu', but is clear and correct; the Tories have been re-elected with a majority when it was clear what their approach to welfare would be, it's clearly a popular approach with the people of England.

Downsizing and destruction are not the same thing you know.

 

Come to mention it, how can you destroy the NHS by pouring more money into it?

So you think the number of poor and disabled people have "downsized" in the UK

What's the point in arguing? Conservatives have a nice little lead (it'll go when they start the infighting...they always do) and labour are a shambles. All the while a great many people are going to be worse off under this budget. Tax credits were not the solution but this isn't a living wage but then just please realise that the future will not be as rosey as a lot of you blue noses on here seem to think it will be for you.

So you think the number of poor and disabled people have "downsized" in the UK

 

What's the point in arguing? Conservatives have a nice little lead (it'll go when they start the infighting...they always do) and labour are a shambles. All the while a great many people are going to be worse off under this budget. Tax credits were not the solution but this isn't a living wage but then just please realise that the future will not be as rosey as a lot of you blue noses on here seem to think it will be for you.

I'm not expecting things to be rosey. Looking at the outside world it's not going to be. When will you red-backsided lot realise that we need to live sensibly to stand any chance in the face of a world full of countries who are destroying the wealth advantage that previously existed that you lot helped to squander..... and there is nothing, nothing that Labour would have done significantly differently to the current status quo to make any difference.

We are about to enter the first generation in living memory where the living standards will be worse then the previous one. Prepare for the storm, do not sleep walk into it. As for poor and disabled people downsizing the UK, no..... But there is a generation of people who feel entitled to take from the state not contribute to it. A creation of Labour's environment that undermine's the welfare state's very point.... a creation that should support the needy but be supported itself by those who work.

This country has never been as rich as Labour believed, and it propped up a generation. Now they are feeling a pinch due to their arrogance and shortsightedness. Do I think Labour intended ruin? No, but they pandered to easy answers and popular swell. Their idiocy nearly f**ked us all.

They don't need to 'stfu', but is clear and correct; the Tories have been re-elected with a majority when it was clear what their approach to welfare would be, it's clearly a popular approach with the people of England.

Just going to recycle VFTT's link from higher up this page...

https://twitter.com/twcuddleston/status/619084622144634880/video/1

Not particularly clear is it? Obviously we all knew that the Tories would implement huge cuts to welfare if they were elected but I don't think people necessarily know all the facts. I don't want to go on another rant against the media because it's a bit of a tired routine by now but The Mail, Sun et al have certainly lubed the welfare state up for a good f*cking by the Tory rod. There's been a long-running narrative in certain areas of the press which demonises those on welfare (i.e. some of the most vulnerable people in our society) which re-inforces this image of a 'something for nothing' culture. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but even I don't want to see people who are perfectly capable of working sitting at home on their ar5es claiming benefits when they could quite clearly be contributing - talk about that kind of scenario enough and it changes the perception of welfare itself. This graphic on public perception of welfare spending goes some way towards illustrating that:

If the Tories had actually run on a clear platform of the welfare cuts they were planning on implementing, I would have less resentment and a bit more respect for them. As it is, they've flat out denied that they would be cutting certain things (as shown in the link above) and although they were up front with the quantity of welfare cuts they were planning, it was a deceitful tactic to deliberately hide the actual measures from the public. Had they been more transparent with this, i'm sure they would've garnered less votes.

Just going to recycle VFTT's link from higher up this page...

 

https://twitter.com/twcuddleston/status/619084622144634880/video/1

 

Not particularly clear is it? Obviously we all knew that the Tories would implement huge cuts to welfare if they were elected but I don't think people necessarily know all the facts. I don't want to go on another rant against the media because it's a bit of a tired routine by now but The Mail, Sun et al have certainly lubed the welfare state up for a good f*cking by the Tory rod. There's been a long-running narrative in certain areas of the press which demonises those on welfare (i.e. some of the most vulnerable people in our society) which re-inforces this image of a 'something for nothing' culture. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but even I don't want to see people who are perfectly capable of working sitting at home on their ar5es claiming benefits when they could quite clearly be contributing - talk about that kind of scenario enough and it changes the perception of welfare itself. This graphic on public perception of welfare spending goes some way towards illustrating that:

 

If the Tories had actually run on a clear platform of the welfare cuts they were planning on implementing, I would have less resentment and a bit more respect for them. As it is, they've flat out denied that they would be cutting certain things (as shown in the link above) and although they were up front with the quantity of welfare cuts they were planning, it was a deceitful tactic to deliberately hide the actual measures from the public. Had they been more transparent with this, i'm sure they would've garnered less votes.

Everyone knew what their position would be, you honestly believe otherwise? People seem pretty happy with the previous 5 years, the electorate has endorsed their approach.

Just going to recycle VFTT's link from higher up this page...

 

https://twitter.com/twcuddleston/status/619084622144634880/video/1

 

Not particularly clear is it? Obviously we all knew that the Tories would implement huge cuts to welfare if they were elected but I don't think people necessarily know all the facts. I don't want to go on another rant against the media because it's a bit of a tired routine by now but The Mail, Sun et al have certainly lubed the welfare state up for a good f*cking by the Tory rod. There's been a long-running narrative in certain areas of the press which demonises those on welfare (i.e. some of the most vulnerable people in our society) which re-inforces this image of a 'something for nothing' culture. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but even I don't want to see people who are perfectly capable of working sitting at home on their ar5es claiming benefits when they could quite clearly be contributing - talk about that kind of scenario enough and it changes the perception of welfare itself. This graphic on public perception of welfare spending goes some way towards illustrating that:

 

If the Tories had actually run on a clear platform of the welfare cuts they were planning on implementing, I would have less resentment and a bit more respect for them. As it is, they've flat out denied that they would be cutting certain things (as shown in the link above) and although they were up front with the quantity of welfare cuts they were planning, it was a deceitful tactic to deliberately hide the actual measures from the public. Had they been more transparent with this, i'm sure they would've garnered less votes.

The problem is the TUC source is perhaps a little biased. Our lives are evidently wealthier than most third world countries but a lot of these cuts are quite disproportionate sadly. Really, that gif of IDS is really quite bad, who'd fist bump these kinds of cuts? does the man not have any sense?

Everyone knew what their position would be, you honestly believe otherwise? People seem pretty happy with the previous 5 years, the electorate has endorsed their approach.

Quite f*cking clearly! Did you bother to read my post or is this just "Sour Mash stock reply #44"?

The problem is the TUC source is perhaps a little biased. Our lives are evidently wealthier than most third world countries but a lot of these cuts are quite disproportionate sadly. Really, that gif of IDS is really quite bad, who'd fist bump these kinds of cuts? does the man not have any sense?

There is potentially some bias, but a YouGov poll shows a similar level of distortion between perception and reality on tax distribution as well:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/09/public-attitudes-tax-distribution/

Quite f*cking clearly! Did you bother to read my post or is this just "Sour Mash stock reply #44"?

You are interested in politics and didn't read the subtext of a manifesto? Really!? Regardless of party, jesus man!

You are interested in politics and didn't read the subtext of a manifesto? Really!? Regardless of party, jesus man!

Everyone knew that the Tories would be making cuts, you'd have to be a real cretin to think otherwise! My issue is that they were deliberately disingenuous and misled people by denying reports of proposed cuts (which have now been made) and also refusing to state exactly what they planned to cut which essentially gave them a mandate to do whatever the f*ck they want with the budget because they'd not run on a specific platform of cuts. Like I say, I find that incredibly disingenuous.

I find that incredibly disingenuous.

Such is politics.

Obviously we all knew that the Tories would implement huge cuts to welfare if they were elected .

Quite f*cking clearly! Did you bother to read my post or is this just "Sour Mash stock reply #44"?

So everyone did or didn't know they'd be significant cuts to welfare?

So everyone did or didn't know they'd be significant cuts to welfare?

Not being disingenuous is he?

So everyone did or didn't know they'd be significant cuts to welfare?

Did. As in, did I not make that clear already? (Apologies if not, long day!)

Lord Duckhunter, you have your opinions but you know, us lefties do get a bit upset with the desctruction of the welfare state, the national health service and generally a safety net incase, you know, the worst happens and you get sick and can't work.

I don't think there's anyone against a " safety net" but if you think someone on 39k with one kid needs the safety net of family allowance or Paul McCartney needs winter fuel allowance you're deluded. Too many people, far too many people receive state handouts and as a result they're spread way too thinly and the genuine needy struggle as a result .

Any rowing back of the state is a great thing in my eyes, the less they do the less they can screw up

I don't think there's anyone against a " safety net" but if you think someone on 39k with one kid needs the safety net of family allowance or Paul McCartney needs winter fuel allowance you're deluded. Too many people, far too many people receive state handouts and as a result they're spread way too thinly and the genuine needy struggle as a result .

 

Any rowing back of the state is a great thing in my eyes, the less they do the less they can screw up

Those examples are good ones of an over-arching nanny state hitting the poverty problem with a huge and uneeded "welfare mallet" but on the other hand, you'd probably not know as your views suggest you are unaware that similarly a "lets kick all these shirkers mallet" is essentially doing similar in the name of austerity.

A lot of people need help and are not dole-bludgers, dont have massive Sky TVs or appear on the Jeremy Kyle show but they are going to be hit by this just like those that are. A lot of people struggle in this country and are not the stereotype the right wing papers would want you to believe just maybe people should think about these things before they shoot off on how everyone on the dole or on a low wage is like a Jeremy Kyle guest because they are not.

It just seems to me that the government have taken this popularist view and ran with it.

"Destruction of the welfare state"

Dear god

Next thing, you will tell us that the Tories will destroy the NHS...... A claim that he been put to them since year dot

"Destruction of the welfare state"

Dear god

 

Next thing, you will tell us that the Tories will destroy the NHS...... A claim that he been put to them since year dot

Since they did put in countless official objections to it's very creation it's not a myth.

But I think you'll find it comes back to popularism. Creaping privatisation of services is happening all the time; they wouldn't dare just flat out kill it as that would be incredibly unpopular indeed (it's been their view to go with the populace but slowly, bring in their "market forces idea") and if you think they love the NHS and want to keep it, you are very deluded.

Just don't ever think that a party who object to spending their tax-payers money on thing like the sick, the poor and the needy are in any way champions or founders of such a system as you would be wrong.

Since they did put in countless official objections to it's very creation it's not a myth.

 

But I think you'll find it comes back to popularism. Creaping privatisation of services is happening all the time; they wouldn't dare just flat out kill it as that would be incredibly unpopular indeed (it's been their view to go with the populace but slowly, bring in their "market forces idea") and if you think they love the NHS and want to keep it, you are very deluded.

 

Just don't ever think that a party who object to spending their tax-payers money on thing like the sick, the poor and the needy are in any way champions or founders of such a system as you would be wrong.

Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ

And? Something offend your right wing sensibilities there or do you dislike reality?