Les Reed - tells it like it is ......

Excellent article in Echo interview with Les Reed of the " ethics " of transfer dealing in the Prem. and Saints' philosophy on the subject.

Straight talking about " crooked agents " and how some Prem. clubs manipulate the media to "create" a deal.

A brief lesson for all those impatient fans who think that signing a player is just agreeing a fee with the club and getting the player to sign on the dotted line.......

http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/13462429.Les_Reed__How_Southampton_conduct_transfer_deals/?ref=twt&utm_content=Southampton,+Saints, good article

The title should be "Les Reed: I hate agents, and Liverpool are the scum of the earth"

The title should be "Les Reed: I hate agents, and Liverpool are the scum of the earth"

I may be wrong, but I think he was more referring to Man Utd who seem to brief their chosen Northern journos like Ogden, Keegan and McDonnell who then end up unsettling players.

They were talking of Clyne as a complete done deal since Feb coinciding with a major drop in form, and have been non stop on Schneiderlin for ages.

Same with Shaw last year.

Would love to hear Les' thoughts on the role of true England squad set-up and unsettling players.

Was

I may be wrong, but I think he was more referring to Man Utd who seem to brief their chosen Northern journos like Ogden, Keegan and McDonnell who then end up unsettling players.

 

They were talking of Clyne as a complete done deal since Feb coinciding with a major drop in form, and have been non stop on Schneiderlin for ages.

 

Same with Shaw last year.

Though he talks about one or two players who left last year so that can only be Liverpool. Good article though and yes, someone needs to out the tapping up that goes on at the England camp. It's almost as though Woy is on commission!

So basically anyone can call themselves a football agent and try to broker a transfer deal even for players they don't represent and who doesn't even know they want to move.... Time for the saintsweb sports agency to broker a few deals then. Messi and Mercelo to Southampton ...they just don't know it yet.

Les states that a lot of these problems are caused by the deregulation of agents. It begs the questions, why did that happen and why isn't there pressure from clubs like us to have agent regulations reinstated?

I think Les might want to have a word with Ronald though, he tends to be quite open to the media about the players we are after ie Jordy. Need to practice what we preach.

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I think Les might want to have a word with Ronald though, he tends to be quite open to the media about the players we are after ie Jordy. Need to practice what we preach.

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That's hardly the same is it

And for starters he was asked a direct question about the player

So its OK for managers to talk about how much they like a player, but wrong for a reporter to report it?

Can anyone on here shed any light on why the deregulation of agents was allowed to take place and how it happened??

I think Les might want to have a word with Ronald though, he tends to be quite open to the media about the players we are after ie Jordy. Need to practice what we preach.

 

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To be fair, when Ron has confirmed interest in a player we were already pretty advanced with negotiations. I have no doubt that we have been talking to Jordy's club for many months before Morgan left.

To be fair, when Ron has confirmed interest in a player we were already pretty advanced with negotiations. I have no doubt that we have been talking to Jordy's club for many months before Morgan left.

When did we sign Ron Vlaar then?

Didn't we leak the Toby legal action to journos , is that ethical leaking or Liverpool leaking?

Didn't we leak the Toby legal action to journos , is that ethical leaking or Liverpool leaking?

It was last resort leaking rather than first resort. I believe that's the difference Reed is highlighting.

It was last resort leaking rather than first resort. I believe that's the difference Reed is highlighting.

Its all so confusing, perhaps someone could publish a guide to ethical transfers.

Player on England duty gets tapped up , wrong. Player on Portuguese duty, OK. Ron talks about another clubs player , OK . Brenda does in , wrong. Journo says Liverpool interested in player, wrong . Journo says saints interested , OK. Its really hard to know when to be outraged and when not to.

Surprised Batman/Delldays hasn't hit this thread yet.

Was

 

Though he talks about one or two players who left last year so that can only be Liverpool. Good article though and yes, someone needs to out the tapping up that goes on at the England camp. It's almost as though Woy is on commission!

I don't think that Hodgson was around when Mike Channon tapped up Keven Keegan. Seriously though, people talk. What do you expect players to say to each other when away on international duty? Talk about their new x box games. It has happened forever.

Was

 

Though he talks about one or two players who left last year so that can only be Liverpool. Good article though and yes, someone needs to out the tapping up that goes on at the England camp. It's almost as though Woy is on commission!

What about Fonte tapping up players for us on Portugal duty? Someone needs to "out" that and if justice is done we will get fined or something.

That's hardly the same is it

And for starters he was asked a direct question about the player

No its not the same. I'd say it's worse and if justice is done we'd get fined or something.

Didn't we leak the Toby legal action to journos , is that ethical leaking or Liverpool leaking?

It was last resort leaking rather than first resort. I believe that's the difference Reed is highlighting.

It was not in any way tapping up a player. It was asserting a contractual right to buy a player upon which the parties had already agreed. Assuming what we are told is correct, the problem was that Toby wanted to go to Spurs so the contractual right did not matter. Plus, our interest in Toby was hardly a secret that we were ethically bound to keep in order to avoid unsettling him--he was playing for us at the time.

Its all so confusing, perhaps someone could publish a guide to ethical transfers.

 

Player on England duty gets tapped up , wrong. Player on Portuguese duty, OK. Ron talks about another clubs player , OK . Brenda does in , wrong. Journo says Liverpool interested in player, wrong . Journo says saints interested , OK. Its really hard to know when to be outraged and when not to.

I think you have some valid points, but I think there is still a difference and Southampton might be practicing what it preaches--we just don't know. Possibly, for example, we went to Feyenoord several months ago and said that we wanted to buy Clasie if Schneiderlin left this summer as expected. This is a lot different from briefing reporters or letting agents run wild on our behalf. I do not know for sure that this is what happened, but it is consistent with what we know about the transfer--and the complete lack of displeasure displayed by Feyenoord.

Can anyone on here shed any light on why the deregulation of agents was allowed to take place and how it happened??

I asked that too, but nobody on here seems to know the answer. It certainly seems to be the case that they ought to be regulated based on what Les says they get up to.

I asked that too, but nobody on here seems to know the answer. It certainly seems to be the case that they ought to be regulated based on what Les says they get up to.

Who would regulate? The clubs, PL, the FA, Government - if so which Euro; UK or would you have FIFA; UEFA regulate?

Who would regulate? The clubs, PL, the FA, Government - if so which Euro; UK or would you have FIFA; UEFA regulate?

Not sure, but the sooner justice is done and Saints get fined or something the better. This behaviour needs to be dealt with.

Did les actually mention players talking to each other? I thought the point of the interview was aimed at agents? Seems to have turned into another saintsweb hypocrisy police thread. From people who haven't worked out that most football fans are, essentially hypocrites when it comes to their club, and feel the need to point out the bleeden obvious

Excellent article in Echo interview with Les Reed of the " ethics " of transfer dealing in the Prem. and Saints' philosophy on the subject.

 

Straight talking about " crooked agents " and how some Prem. clubs manipulate the media to "create" a deal.

 

A brief lesson for all those impatient fans who think that signing a player is just agreeing a fee with the club and getting the player to sign on the dotted line.......

All good honourable stuff. Can't fault him in anything he says except that Prem Clubs that manipulate the media to get their man do exactly that - they get their man.

Great to be nice.... nicer to be great?

My biggest issue with our Boardroom is that they have still failed to spend what they have to bolster our team. I know we will get another central defender, but I am unimpressed with all our summer signings less Clasie, and even then I do not think he's as good as Morgan.

Frankly I am in the same mindset as last season at this stage, we're weakened. But this year though I know that Koeman can keep us in a mid table slot rather than wondering about relegation.

I do not sense us kicking on a level this season at the moment. I think Les' statement stinks of we are keeping the cash (again) and not investing it all (again). Why were not snapping up Austin and releasing Mayuka I don't know.

All good honourable stuff. Can't fault him in anything he says except that Prem Clubs that manipulate the media to get their man do exactly that - they get their man.

 

Great to be nice.... nicer to be great?

 

My biggest issue with our Boardroom is that they have still failed to spend what they have to bolster our team. I know we will get another central defender, but I am unimpressed with all our summer signings less Clasie, and even then I do not think he's as good as Morgan.

 

Frankly I am in the same mindset as last season at this stage, we're weakened. But this year though I know that Koeman can keep us in a mid table slot rather than wondering about relegation.

 

I do not sense us kicking on a level this season at the moment. I think Les' statement stinks of we are keeping the cash (again) and not investing it all (again). Why were not snapping up Austin and releasing Mayuka I don't know.

Your post strikes me of someone who doesn't have a flaming clue what they're on about.

All good honourable stuff. Can't fault him in anything he says except that Prem Clubs that manipulate the media to get their man do exactly that - they get their man.

 

Great to be nice.... nicer to be great?

 

My biggest issue with our Boardroom is that they have still failed to spend what they have to bolster our team. I know we will get another central defender, but I am unimpressed with all our summer signings less Clasie, and even then I do not think he's as good as Morgan.

 

Frankly I am in the same mindset as last season at this stage, we're weakened. But this year though I know that Koeman can keep us in a mid table slot rather than wondering about relegation.

 

I do not sense us kicking on a level this season at the moment. I think Les' statement stinks of we are keeping the cash (again) and not investing it all (again). Why were not snapping up Austin and releasing Mayuka I don't know.

Typically for you, here you are again with still plenty enough time before the transfer window closes, making knee-jerk reactions about the situation. You see no problem in accusing the board of not spending enough money, even though there is still time for them to do so. You are equally comfortable making assessments of players signed, when you have not seen any of them kicking a ball in a Saints shirt in a PL match. And no doubt Clasie will not be as good as Schneiderlin in exactly the same way that Pelle wasn't as good as Lambert, Alderweireld wasn't as good as Lovren, Mane/Tadic weren't as good as Lallana, Bertrand wasn't as good as Shaw, Forster wasn't as good as Boruc, etc.

Regarding the CB, having identified Lovren and Toby from out of the blue, do you believe that those appointments were just lucky and that we can't find another gem?

As for Austin, do we really need him with Pelle, Rodriguez, Mane, Long, Juanmi, Gallagher?

Mayuka? Do you not credit Koeman with the ability to make a judgment call on him which you can accept? I expect that he knows much more about the players and their potential than you do.

Can anyone on here shed any light on why the deregulation of agents was allowed to take place and how it happened??

I believe that there was a Bosman style case being prepared against UEFA. Not sure if went to court or UEFA changed the rules in response.

Its all so confusing, perhaps someone could publish a guide to ethical transfers.

 

Player on England duty gets tapped up , wrong. Player on Portuguese duty, OK. Ron talks about another clubs player , OK . Brenda does in , wrong. Journo says Liverpool interested in player, wrong . Journo says saints interested , OK. Its really hard to know when to be outraged and when not to.

Player on England duty wasn't already leaving. Portuguese player was leaving and just changed destination. And was he tapped up, or did he ask a fellow Portuguese for his opinion?

Player on England duty wasn't already leaving. Portuguese player was leaving and just changed destination. And was he tapped up, or did he ask a fellow Portuguese for his opinion?

Laughable.

At the end of the day, when the offer comes from Liverpool, most players would be off.

It's joining smaller clubs like Saints where the decision is far more marginal, so the need to tap up is far, far greater. Probably why the likes of Ronald and Erwin and Fonte place so much emphasis on tapping up where they can.

For the longest time my opinion of Les was tainted by what I had read about him on this forum. Lots of tales about him destroying Charlton, being a huge a-hole, players hate him etc.

Thankfully, he has weathered the test of time, and IMO he is a huge asset to the club.

So its OK for managers to talk about how much they like a player, but wrong for a reporter to report it?

I don't think managers have come up, to be honest.

So basically anyone can call themselves a football agent and try to broker a transfer deal even for players they don't represent and who doesn't even know they want to move.... Time for the saintsweb sports agency to broker a few deals then. Messi and Mercelo to Southampton ...they just don't know it yet.

In order to be a registered football agent (and be allowed to be involved in transfers) you have to lodge a massive bond deposit with FIFA, into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. So not "anyone can call themselves a football agent" - but it helps if they know someone earning a load of cash on a weekly basis...

Laughable.

 

At the end of the day, when the offer comes from Liverpool, most players would be off.

 

It's joining smaller clubs like Saints where the decision is far more marginal, so the need to tap up is far, far greater. Probably why the likes of Ronald and Erwin and Fonte place so much emphasis on tapping up where they can.

The whole outrage about tapping up is vaguely ridiculous, as I've asked before, is there a fundamental difference between a club asking a player to talk to an international teammate if they want a position filled, as opposed to the player talking to his international teammate about wanting to play for a bigger club and does he think they'd be interested? There's basically no difference in the conversation beyond instigating it.

Not sure, but the sooner justice is done and Saints get fined or something the better. This behaviour needs to be dealt with.

You don't do sarcasm/irony very well HTH

The whole outrage about tapping up is vaguely ridiculous, as I've asked before, is there a fundamental difference between a club asking a player to talk to an international teammate if they want a position filled, as opposed to the player talking to his international teammate about wanting to play for a bigger club and does he think they'd be interested? There's basically no difference in the conversation beyond instigating it.

The point is doing your tapping up via the press and sky.......which the scouse, yids and mancs do all the time..........at least Les has got the most money extracted from these scum clubs.

" Recruiting " ..for the want of a better word....takes many forms. Players are "head-hunted " that's what the "Black Box " is all about, and it's down to knowledge and good intelligence. If I were a manager who had signed a new player, I might well ask him.....who else is a good player in your former club?

If the answer was not appropriate - no problem, I might disregard the comment .....or take a closer look if he sounded an interesting addition for my team.

We know that the old adage " buy' em in pairs " has been popular for several decades past - especially with foreign internationals.

Not everyone's a success, of course.... but it helps the " homesick syndrome " - if your " star " player has a mate to socialise with.

- in international squads ..players are bound to exchange viewpoints on each others club / managers / training regimes etc. and many managers are likely to exploit this.

Picking through Les' interview comments, I noted his criticism of " false agents " who try to become " middle-men " and who jump start negotiations by pretending to represent another club..and agents (and probably clubs) who use the media to force ....or even " create a deal " that can't get off the ground. Past reports had Charlie Austin linked with several clubs (incl.Saints) - yet SFC a few weeks back - denied that we wanted him and certainly hadn't made any bid.(!) and seemingly neither has anyone else met QPR's asking price.

"Creating an auction" by throwing other names into the hat is a favourite, and some clubs (and a lot of fans) may panic a little if they think they should be bidding.

If Chelsea had really wanted Toby, they could have outbid Spurs without blinking an eye, but they were also named on many sites as a likely bidder at the time.

I suspect that a few people reading this may - at some time - have been approached by a " head-hunter " or acquaintance from another employer about a move.

You may even have talked to someone in another organisation about work there, if you fancy a change...it's difficult to imagine that the soccer world is much different.

The main issue here is that clubs, (and agents) are dealing with multi-million pound deals, signing-on fees, long-term contracts and outrageous salary levels, and that's obviously quite different from you, or I simply changing employers.

In order to be a registered football agent (and be allowed to be involved in transfers) you have to lodge a massive bond deposit with FIFA, into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. So not "anyone can call themselves a football agent" - but it helps if they know someone earning a load of cash on a weekly basis...

Having boned up on this, it appears that agents are now a thing of the past and that they will now be called intermerdiaries. They won't now be regulated by FIFA, but by their own national Football Association. Technically anybody can become an intermediary provided that they kept their noses clean and pay the £500 registration fee. They don't have to pass the previous exam and don't really have to have any knowledge of football. These intermediaries can also be companies too.

I don't think that Hodgson was around when Mike Channon tapped up Keven Keegan. Seriously though, people talk. What do you expect players to say to each other when away on international duty? Talk about their new x box games. It has happened forever.

Agreed. But that wasn't the point I was making. I was talking about the England manager alluding that a transfer to a big four club will enhance their England chances. Annoying though it was, I had no problems with Gerard talking to Lallana and lambert. But the manager should pick on ability not what club they play for. Not sure I was comfortable with the Fonte issue either but I accept that is difficult to stamp out. Stand by what I said of Ron and senior officials at club.

As no one knows what conversation has or hasn't gone on, I suspect most of this is wild speculation. With the Fonte one, who knows, it might be as simple as a young Portuguese player wanting to move to a club with a fellow countryman in. Or it might be him asking a fellow countryman what the merits of living in the Southampton area are compared to living in the Stoke area. Now I know that I am biased, but I would choose here rather than there, not that I imagine Stoke being any worse than Southampton.

And what do people imagine happens when these conversations take place? That for example, Lallana tells Clyne what Liverpool is like as if Clyne has never heard of Liverpool before? Most people know a bit or a lot about other companies in the same field as the one they work in, and football is no different.

Woy - well, if he tells people that they should move to further their international career, then that is something different.

Player on England duty wasn't already leaving. Portuguese player was leaving and just changed destination. And was he tapped up, or did he ask a fellow Portuguese for his opinion?

Therein is the difference. Too many divs can't see that the contractual status of the players was vastly different. If a player is under contract, that fact should be respected -hence the ethical dimension. Never mind that 'tapping up' by a big club player may make little difference to a player's decision to leave (arguably it does make a difference, albeit not a massive one). That's a purely instrumental way of looking at the issue. Indeed, it's an ever greater reason for a player to keep his mouth shut.