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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

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Interesting to see JC has put people off voting Labour in London as Sadiq Khan wins a record landslide.

 

quite interesting that Khan is one of the most fierce critics of Corbyn and distanced himself more and more as his campaign went on. and lashed out at Red Ken.

would Ken livingstone himself win this election, in a pretty much a Labour city? nah

 

do you think Labour are on the right track to win in 2020?

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Interesting to see JC has put people off voting Labour in London as Sadiq Khan wins a record landslide.

This will be the same Sadiq Khan who is classed as "hostile" on that infamous Labour list of who in the party supports the leadership or not.

 

Khan kept Corbyn a million miles away from him during the campaign.

 

London is a Labour city long before Corbyn's leadership and will be once he's shuffled off (ie about September this year).

 

Lastly Goldsmith ran a dreadful campaign and was a terrible candidate.

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This will be the same Sadiq Khan who is classed as "hostile" on that infamous Labour list of who in the party supports the leadership or not.

 

Khan kept Corbyn a million miles away from him during the campaign.

 

London is a Labour city long before Corbyn's leadership and will be once he's shuffled off (ie about September this year).

 

Lastly Goldsmith ran a dreadful campaign and was a terrible candidate.

 

That's true; his sister has appologised stating that he's quite a nice fellow and basically suggesting that directions for his nasty campaign came from above (i.e. dodgy Dave and his boys).

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Wasn't Brown " real Labour " rather than new Labour? . Hockey and his ilk don't seem to understand the reality of labours situation and seem incapable of understanding basic facts . The further the party move away from New Labour the further they move from the majority of the electorate . Their last non new Labour winner was Harold Wilson , doesn't that tell them something.

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do you think Labour are on the right track to win in 2020?

 

No but there could be a coalition with the SNP

 

Lets face it the Press totally rubbish non tory parties so the things published must have some affect on peoples perception on labour.

 

I know lots of grass roots Labour members who think that Corbyn is not that left wing but he is certainly left wing compared to the red Tories like Khan Blair Brown Straw etc

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This was the first ever election that I almost abstained from due to Camerons idiotic handling of the EU propoganda. Corbyns Council seat loss was Defended by half of us conservatives being alienated by a hierarchy that seems to not know how to put a decent message out.

 

At least this means that one of the most incompetent leaders in recent history stays in charge of labour longer than we thought possible.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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do you think Labour are on the right track to win in 2020?

 

No but there could be a coalition with the SNP

 

Lets face it the Press totally rubbish non tory parties so the things published must have some affect on peoples perception on labour.

 

I know lots of grass roots Labour members who think that Corbyn is not that left wing but he is certainly left wing compared to the red Tories like Khan Blair Brown Straw etc

 

Exactly.

 

Also, so earlier this year the Disabled conservatives' were alienated to the point they hijacked their website in disgust at cuts and now it appears the Muslim conservatives appear to be the next in line: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/07/top-conservatives-condemn-zac-goldsmiths-disgusting-mayoral-campaign

 

I wonder who's next.

Edited by Hockey_saint
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No but there could be a coalition with the SNP

 

Thanks for that vision and my new recurring nightmare... they'd smile at each other for a few days and then bicker with each other for five years whilst the UK slowly crumbles and rots around them (they'd make the ConLib coalition look like the golden years !).

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This was the first ever election that I almost abstained from due to Camerons idiotic handling of the EU propoganda. Corbyns Council seat loss was Defended by half of us conservatives being alienated by a hierarchy that seems to not know how to put a decent message out.

 

At least this means that one of the most incompetent leaders in recent history stays in charge of labour longer than we thought possible.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Ha! Stick to you Xbox one.

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No but there could be a coalition with the SNP

 

Lets face it the Press totally rubbish non tory parties so the things published must have some affect on peoples perception on labour.

 

I know lots of grass roots Labour members who think that Corbyn is not that left wing but he is certainly left wing compared to the red Tories like Khan Blair Brown Straw etc

 

Exactly.

 

Also, so earlier this year the Disabled conservatives' were alienated to the point they hijacked their website in disgust at cuts and now it appears the Muslim conservatives appear to be the next in line: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/07/top-conservatives-condemn-zac-goldsmiths-disgusting-mayoral-campaign

 

I wonder who's next.

With the Tories resurgence in Scotland as the unionist anti tax rise party? I doubt a coalition would be viable...

Ha! Stick to you Xbox one.

Don't worry I can play my Xbox while viewing the inaction of Corbyn and his merry band. The leadership contest between Watson and McDonnell will be fun to watch in a few months. I'll have skynews snapped to the one.

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The leadership contest between Watson and McDonnell will be fun to watch in a few months. I'll have skynews snapped to the one.

 

If there's a leadership challenge, then the parliamentary party will work very hard to ensure no more far-left bunker loons will be on the ballot-paper.

 

Corbyn had to beg, borrow and steal to get on the ballot. McDonnell is roundly despised by the PLP and will get nowhere near it.

 

I doubt Watson has any interest at all in being leader.

 

The Labour leader needs to have the confidence of his core team - the shadow cabinet and the MPs.

 

Just being the winner a "who's yer favourite left-winger" popularity contest with the party membership does not an effective leader make.

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What are you , stuck in the 1950's . Most people don't vote tribally nowadays . They're not " life long " supporters of any party . They clearly don't like labour since Blair , until you accept that and change, your party is doomed. Labour seem to think the voters are wrong .

 

I've never thought of it like that before. But the Labour metropolitan set, and the class war great unwashed, do think the voters are wrong.

 

Great post.

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The last election results would suggest otherwise concerning not being sick of Blair and his new Labour politics although at the minute, his lot appear to be throwing their toys out of the pram quite a bit in public, which is kinda not on in any party. I think a few things contribute to this though, the A8 states vote that Blair lobbied for, the traditional Labour voters in Scotland moving over to the SNP and UKIP in England but I do take issue with this "non-tribal" notion of yours as I would never dream of voting conservative as I kinda have a conscience...Also the same reason I'd not vote for Labour if someone like Liz Kendall was in charge.

 

How about Dan Jarvis?

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do you think Labour are on the right track to win in 2020?

 

No but there could be a coalition with the SNP

 

Lets face it the Press totally rubbish non tory parties so the things published must have some affect on peoples perception on labour.

 

I know lots of grass roots Labour members who think that Corbyn is not that left wing but he is certainly left wing compared to the red Tories like Khan Blair Brown Straw etc

 

Who on earth thinks Corbyn isn't left-wing? Like saying Nixon wasn't right-wing.

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How about Dan Jarvis?

 

Until the plp take the leadership decision away from the membership he hasn't a hope in hell. The party is moving towards becoming a protest movement , with the majority of members unwilling to compromise their principles for power . In some way it's an honourable stance, but whilst we retain FPTP it will lead to constant opposition .

 

To bypass the strict qualifying criteria and gerrymander Corbyn on to the ballot has to be the most ridiculous decision ever, they're now going to compound it by sitting back and letting the Corbynittes change the rules for future contests ensuring that there will always be a leftie put forward to the membership . Meanwhile people like Andy Burnham jump ship & moderate potential candidates choose an alternative career .

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Until the plp take the leadership decision away from the membership he hasn't a hope in hell. The party is moving towards becoming a protest movement , with the majority of members unwilling to compromise their principles for power . In some way it's an honourable stance, but whilst we retain FPTP it will lead to constant opposition .

 

To bypass the strict qualifying criteria and gerrymander Corbyn on to the ballot has to be the most ridiculous decision ever, they're now going to compound it by sitting back and letting the Corbynittes change the rules for future contests ensuring that there will always be a leftie put forward to the membership . Meanwhile people like Andy Burnham jump ship & moderate potential candidates choose an alternative career .

 

I am....finally, and very unfortunately, going to have to agree with you on that one....I know...But I read what Sadiq Khan had to say and thought "yeah, he's pretty much totally right" :s

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As somebody who votes mainly right of centre, to see Sadiq Khan's outing as Mayor of London visit the Holocaust memorial makes me genuinely embarrassed to have believed the tory spin. Shame on them.

 

It was always going to happen unfortunately though as Goldsmith had basically been losing throughout the campaign but I still think it was just another line of morality that this government were trying to test.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Chuka's tweets

 

.@hilarybennmp is one of the finest Shadow Foreign Secretaries we've ever had and one of the nicest men in politics. Crazy to sack him.

 

Either you look your flaws in the face and address them or you stick your head in the sand, destroy the Labour Party and the country suffers

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Bit late for Chuka to crawl out from where he has been hiding. If he hadn't have bottled out of the leadership race the party probably wouldn't be in this mess.

 

He's a lightweight - he would have been slaughtered in the leadership contest, especially in the toxic, insurgent climate that followed Labour's election defeat.

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Now outside the tent píssing in.

 

True. Im uncomfortable about some of his disloyalty - he should never have taken the job if he disagreed with Corbyn so much. I cant work out whether his father will give him an advantage or not. Working class cred, out of touch 'toff' or dangerous left winger? .

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Benn has got to be a leading candidate for the leadership surely?

 

My understanding from sources is that Hunt and Umunna have more or less been leading mini factions, though they're very fragmented, reactive and personality-led. Another camp centred around Rachel Reeves and Dan Jarvis was beginning to flex its muscles and think about policy. They're much more sensitive to developments in the North which has become more important after the carnage in the referendum.

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As someone who would vote Labour in the right circumstances, I found it amusing (and a bit depressing) to see John McDonnell talking to Andrew Neil and saying that they should all unite behind Corbyn as there may be a General Election before the end of the year.

 

Corbyn hasn't a hope in hell of winning an election. Don't these "activists", Union leaders and party members realise that you can't change anything in opposition so you need a leader who will appeal to a broad spectrum of the electorate. Tony Blair may have turned out to be a bit of a tosser but he won 3 elections by getting the votes of middle England as well as what used to be Labour's traditional support.

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My understanding from sources is that Hunt and Umunna have more or less been leading mini factions, though they're very fragmented, reactive and personality-led. Another camp centred around Rachel Reeves and Dan Jarvis was beginning to flex its muscles and think about policy. They're much more sensitive to developments in the North which has become more important after the carnage in the referendum.

 

Its a pity the referendum has precipitated this challenge now. Ideally it would have been in a year or two, giving time for some strong unifying candidates to have emerged. None of the candidates filled me with much hope last time.

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As someone who would vote Labour in the right circumstances, I found it amusing (and a bit depressing) to see John McDonnell talking to Andrew Neil and saying that they should all unite behind Corbyn as there may be a General Election before the end of the year.

 

Corbyn hasn't a hope in hell of winning an election. Don't these "activists", Union leaders and party members realise that you can't change anything in opposition so you need a leader who will appeal to a broad spectrum of the electorate. Tony Blair may have turned out to be a bit of a tosser but he won 3 elections by getting the votes of middle England as well as what used to be Labour's traditional support.

 

The problem for Labour's electability is that the MPs think he's a disaster yet the party members think he's great.

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The problem for Labour's electability is that the MPs think he's a disaster yet the party members think he's great.

And they have a hugely over inflated sense of their importance.

 

They are utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things. They're going to vote Labour whatever.

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And they have a hugely over inflated sense of their importance.

 

They are utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things. They're going to vote Labour whatever.

 

Only to a certain extent. The reason for the recent surge of the SNP isn't that the Scots suddenly thought they might fancy a bit of independence. It is because they were an alternative when Labour imploded.

 

Similarly UKIP has benefitted in England. We desperately need a credible opposition. At the moment that job is being done by the Lords at Westminster.

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Only to a certain extent. The reason for the recent surge of the SNP isn't that the Scots suddenly thought they might fancy a bit of independence. It is because they were an alternative when Labour imploded.

 

Similarly UKIP has benefitted in England. We desperately need a credible opposition. At the moment that job is being done by the Lords at Westminster.

Yes but that is the electorate not the membership of a party.

 

The membership of the Labour party, were they in charge of everything, would not have prevented the rise of UKIP or the SNP.

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The key for Jezza is the unions and momentum . If they say his times up, he's gone . If they support him , he'll win again

He's dead and buried. The shadow cabinet he had was a rag bag of second tier MPs anyway, with most of the actual talent keeping well clear. He won't be able to form another one.

 

If he hasn't got a PLP to lead and is incapable of forming a shadow cabinet then it doesn't matter if a million £3 dins vote for him again. Toast.

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