Is anyone still defending James Ward-Prowse?

Can't be bothered to sift through the match/post-match threads, just wondered.

He has lost his way, we're carrying him.

He was not the only one to blame for tonight. The trouble is that he needs to find something he is very good at very soon as otherwise he is going to struggle to get the games he needs. He cannot find a way to get involved in a game and it is a real problem for him.

Lie of a footballer. Should've been subbed and not Davis.

In fact, the amount of crap SD gets mostly because of baby Beckham is ridiculous.

JWP is set up to fail. He's given a big role in the team, that doesn't fit him (creative central mid) and expected to delivery despite his age. Koeman should have played Tadic from the start.

Yes. Everyone has been poor, he has the excuse of being young. What is Davis's excuse, who's been far worse than jwp? Fonte has been awful too, should we have a thread slagging him off?

Yep , just started a Fonte thread

He was not the only one to blame for tonight. The trouble is that he needs to find something he is very good at very soon as otherwise he is going to struggle to get the games he needs. He cannot find a way to get involved in a game and it is a real problem for him.

Ok, well, whilst you guys try and come up with something he's very good at, I'll just wheel off a list of things he's very, very, bad at.

Winning tackles

Winning 50-50s

Winning headers

Using his left foot

Beating players

Scoring goals

Not even scoring goals but shooting from distance with enough power and accuracy to be some kind of vague threat

Taking free-kicks of any kind

Outpacing players or beating anyone in a 50-50 foot-race

Playing a through-ball to get an assist

Intercepting the ball and cutting out counterattacks

Playing one-twos and actually controlling the return pass

Ok, well, whilst you guys try and come up with something he's very good at, I'll just wheel off a list of things he's very, very, bad at.

 

Winning tackles

Winning 50-50s

Winning headers

Using his left foot

Beating players

Scoring goals

Not even scoring goals but shooting from distance with enough power and accuracy to be some kind of vague threat

Taking free-kicks of any kind

Outpacing players or beating anyone in a 50-50 foot-race

Playing a through-ball to get an assist

Intercepting the ball and cutting out counterattacks

Playing one-twos and actually controlling the return pass

It's team game. We play hoofball from back to front all game. So you single out a midfield player. Well done Stan.

Don't see why he should be singled out tonight. Koeman picked a bad team and told them to play like Stoke. Not JWP's fault.

He's a myth , living off the back of our other great youngsters

He has been a little disappointing. When he broke through with the likes of Shaw, he looked the better player. Shaw improved, JWP seemed to stand still.

I know that it is all well and good wanting to promote English players from the academy, but I do have to ask what he offers. I do think that he has played better than he did last year, but he and Steven Davis together don't add any creativity.

Fans of other clubs who don't watch him always tell me how good he is, weird.

He just does absolutely nothing.

He is just not good enough...... simple really. If he came from any other academy apart from the one that produced walcott, bale, chamberlain .... he would not have got noticed at England level

Fans of other clubs who don't watch him always tell me how good he is, weird.

Because he's a young player that's come through the Southampton academy, so he must be good.

He's not good enough. Simple

He's a myth , living off the back of our other great youngsters

Correct. He wouldn't even be a standout player for a League One side. Seems like a good kid but very limited footballing ability. He's certainly the weakest player in the squad (although Martina is pushing him hard for that title)

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I can't for the life of me work out where all this 'future England captain' and all the hype surrounding JWP came from. I've been a Saints fan for years and all the really great players showed from their very first games that they had something a bit special. The likes of Mick Channon, Steve Moran, Steve Williams, Le Tiss, Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott and Oxlade Chamberlain all demonstrated tremendous natural talent as soon as you first saw them play. What has anybody seen JWP do on a football pitch that makes them think he is anything other than a plodder who belongs in the lower divisions? Sorry but I just don't get it.

He's more focussed on getting into the England squad. lol

He isn't good enough.

If he was any good he wouldn't still be with us.

He can hardly be singled out but he has been incredibly predictable/average of late.

He has been poor so many times now it's unreal. Not up to it.

Koeman was to blame tonight, not JWP.

If you play hoofball and by-pass your midfield, you won't get the best out of midfielders who can pass the ball.

He had promise when he first broke through, but he's never really progressed. Part of that is down to a lack of on pitch assertiveness and mental strength. Never actively tries to make things happen in open play, better safe than sorry approach. Another part of his problem has been down to the number of managers we have had and the fact that all of them have tried to make him do different things and play different positions so now we have a player who is like a sqaure peg faced with 11 round holes. Adkins thought he was the next Schneiderlin, Pochettino would just put him whereever there was a gap in midfield and now Koeman wants him to attack more.

tl:dr summary: a combination of aversion to risk when he plays and poor handling of his development has lead to him looking ever more likely to waste his potential.

The future England captain BS comes from press hype that is fueled by his agent/management company.

He just seems so slow to react to almost every situation. Not good enough.

I'm not sure he needs to be defended. It sounds glib, but a player is only ever as good as his/her ability. So why would Prowse be to blame for not being a set standard? If he becomes a squad player for us (a Premier league team), where's the failure in that? England talk is nonsense propagated by excessively excited (we can all be guilty of it) press/fans/staff (in that order). Note, I'm making a distinction between 'criticism' and someone requiring a 'defense', I.e. anyone can be criticised.

He had promise when he first broke through, but he's never really progressed. Part of that is down to a lack of on pitch assertiveness and mental strength. Never actively tries to make things happen in open play, better safe than sorry approach. Another part of his problem has been down to the number of managers we have had and the fact that all of them have tried to make him do different things and play different positions so now we have a player who is like a sqaure peg faced with 11 round holes. Adkins thought he was the next Schneiderlin, Pochettino would just put him whereever there was a gap in midfield and now Koeman wants him to attack more.

 

tl:dr summary: a combination of aversion to risk when he plays and poor handling of his development has lead to him looking ever more likely to waste his potential.

 

The future England captain BS comes from press hype that is fueled by his agent/management company.

I always thought he played best under Poch, as a right sided midfielder.

I always thought he played best under Poch, as a right sided midfielder.

His game was perfect for the high press and quick release of the ball, which has seemingly been discarded now.

It's a bit harsh to single him out as such but he is a large part of our problem.

Someone mentioned what about Davis above and that is just wrong. Davis is a defensive midfielder. His job is to break up their play and get the ball to a creative player. For a large part he did that job. He even did some good attacking moves, even going on a run past a couple of players and then getting the ball out to our WB's. He did alright.

JWPs job is to be a creative midfielder. To set up attacks, get crosses into the box, get the ball to an attacker, take shots etc. He didn't do that. And he has not done that all season. When you only have three creative players on the pitch you cannot afford for any of them to be having an off game. JWP didn't have an off game, he had his normal level of game.

I no longer buy the "young" defence. All good players when they are young show flashes of brilliance. You know they will be a good player. JWP has not done that for me. He is actually partially at fault for their goal as he tried to close a player down and got nutmegd. Jay was to blame for that goal but JWP should of stood his ground. He also did possibly the worst corner I have ever seen by playing it short, getting the return ball then losing it allowing them to counter. On another day Target could of been off for the tackle.

When JWP does have the ball he doesn't do much with it. You won't see him take it in his stride and dribble with it. Try to gain some yards on the pitch. He doesn't possess the speed or trickery to take a player on. He knows that. So what he does is stops with the ball. Looks up, to the left/right and will either play a side short ball or a hoof towards Pelle. There are no diagonal racking balls that Morgan used to do. No clever through balls. It is very predictable. Nearly every long ball he did went behind Pelle instead of ahead of him and as the game drew on you could clearly see this was getting to Pelle as he had a right go at him.

At the end of the day it isn't the lads fault as if you are picked then you play. It isn't that he doesn't want to do well for us as he clearly does. Its just he doesn't have the current ability to play that role. When Tadic came on he did what we should of done the entire game. Have someone who has the ability to run at players. Have the confidence to run at someone and some cases take a hit, draw a foul. That is one of the best abilities Mane has. He is un-predictable and this causes him to be fouled a lot. Players who can get into the penalty box and create something. We have nobody in the centre who can do that. No Silva or Cazorla type players.

In my view we need a big central attacking midfielder in this window. If you don't create chances you won't score and JWP simply isn't creating chances. He isn't really adding anything to the team. He doesn't have a talent that when he isn't playing we miss it. That is the sad truth of it. The more he plays and adds nothing the more people notice it and will criticise it. That in itself will have a bad impact on his development.

Needs to be sent on loan. Our arrogant policy that no lesser football side could teach our young players anything has well and truly come back to bite us on the arse. Ridiculous statement which thankfully we are now rectifying via mkdons / swindon etc. Targett as well needs to go on loan - neither good enough to even keep us up at the moment.

He has had very good PR behind him, that is f'sure

Needs to get involved more. Demand the ball.

I've said he's sh!thouse for a very long time, only thing he's good at is taking free-kicks and corners, useless everywhere else, a Championship CM at most.

The new Matt Oakley?

It's a bit harsh to single him out as such but he is a large part of our problem.

Someone mentioned what about Davis above and that is just wrong. Davis is a defensive midfielder. His job is to break up their play and get the ball to a creative player. For a large part he did that job. He even did some good attacking moves, even going on a run past a couple of players and then getting the ball out to our WB's. He did alright.

 

JWPs job is to be a creative midfielder. To set up attacks, get crosses into the box, get the ball to an attacker, take shots etc. He didn't do that. And he has not done that all season. When you only have three creative players on the pitch you cannot afford for any of them to be having an off game. JWP didn't have an off game, he had his normal level of game.

 

I no longer buy the "young" defence. All good players when they are young show flashes of brilliance. You know they will be a good player. JWP has not done that for me. He is actually partially at fault for their goal as he tried to close a player down and got nutmegd. Jay was to blame for that goal but JWP should of stood his ground. He also did possibly the worst corner I have ever seen by playing it short, getting the return ball then losing it allowing them to counter. On another day Target could of been off for the tackle.

 

When JWP does have the ball he doesn't do much with it. You won't see him take it in his stride and dribble with it. Try to gain some yards on the pitch. He doesn't possess the speed or trickery to take a player on. He knows that. So what he does is stops with the ball. Looks up, to the left/right and will either play a side short ball or a hoof towards Pelle. There are no diagonal racking balls that Morgan used to do. No clever through balls. It is very predictable. Nearly every long ball he did went behind Pelle instead of ahead of him and as the game drew on you could clearly see this was getting to Pelle as he had a right go at him.

 

At the end of the day it isn't the lads fault as if you are picked then you play. It isn't that he doesn't want to do well for us as he clearly does. Its just he doesn't have the current ability to play that role. When Tadic came on he did what we should of done the entire game. Have someone who has the ability to run at players. Have the confidence to run at someone and some cases take a hit, draw a foul. That is one of the best abilities Mane has. He is un-predictable and this causes him to be fouled a lot. Players who can get into the penalty box and create something. We have nobody in the centre who can do that. No Silva or Cazorla type players.

 

In my view we need a big central attacking midfielder in this window. If you don't create chances you won't score and JWP simply isn't creating chances. He isn't really adding anything to the team. He doesn't have a talent that when he isn't playing we miss it. That is the sad truth of it. The more he plays and adds nothing the more people notice it and will criticise it. That in itself will have a bad impact on his development.

The first thing you mentioned was wrong so didnt bother reading the rest, Davis is very often and is better at, playing further forward, being the creative mid-fielder.

The new Matt Oakley?

Harsh on Matt Oakley that. Prior to his bad injury in 2004 Oakley was a top class midfielder for us, JWP is half the player Oakley was in his prime.

The first thing you mentioned was wrong so didnt bother reading the rest, Davis is very often and is better at, playing further forward, being the creative mid-fielder.

Davis is more of an attacking CM, but his game is only effective if he can carry the ball and pick an opening, either out wide or through the defensive line. That's what he was with Pochettino, fast mover of the ball, supporting the DM (Cork/Wanyama) and linking up with our number 10 and box-to-box CM (Lallana and Schneiderlin, respectively). He also did wonderfully at supporting the FBs. I remember quite a few goals starting with lovely 1-2s between him and Clyne/Shaw.

Last season at first our FBs were pumping forward with a lot of freedom so we had a lot of numbers attacking, and so his game was its best. But then they became more conservative for some reason, and we started playing with two set wingers and a lonely striker in an off-form (or found out if we want to be honest) Pelle. Not seldomly, Davis had the ball, burst forward but then only had three, very distant options to play it too, which significantly hindered his game, and forced him to try things he is not able to do (namely speculative passes and long-balls), and is certainly not going to learn at 30! In the same way, the more the gamble, the bigger the damage to his best asset: reliability.

And truth has to be said, he is more than any other player the team's barometer: if we're good he is playing well, if we're bad he ain't going to turn us around. He was the guardian of our starting 11 of the decade, not the magician. Now he's forced to be many things at a time and that will always make him look twice as bad as he actually is.

As I said elsewhere, does the the 'P' in JWP stand for passenger or powderpuff?

As I said elsewhere, does the the 'P' in JWP stand for passenger or powderpuff?

It wasn't funny the first time. Try to get some new material.

I'm not going to single him out for last night as there were very few players who did anything well. But JWP has never had a good game imo. He'll get the odd 6 or 7/10 but mostly he's not involved and has a negative impact. I'd much rather have Gaston in AM than him.

He seems to have a good dead ball delivery but we rarely seem to make anything of it, so is that another myth?

Maybe he'll come good. I hope he does. But I've seen nothing to suggest he will.

His game was perfect for the high press and quick release of the ball, which has seemingly been discarded now.

That is the root cause of our malaise as I see it, nothing to do with transfer policy or individual performances

One can't entirely blame him for the recent dreadful performances. My main concern is that he never scores and never looks like scoring and this is simply not good enough.

As I said elsewhere, does the the 'P' in JWP stand for passenger or powderpuff?

Yes - this is probably best ignored. Tommy Cooper was better.

No disrespect to him but he is not Premiership quality. I think everyone was hoping for him to be another home grown success story but this one has fallen short.

He's more focussed on his media interviews to be fair. He talks a great game.

Or perhaps he thinks a good cross is all you need to be a pro footballer. Having said that when was the last time he got an assist? Can't remember.

A regular spell at good League 1 or 2 club is what he needs, but to be starting for a Prem side at his current level is madness.

When he first broke into the team under Adkins i thought he looked great and a real prospect - remember the performances against United and City early in the first season back in the Prem.

Then he did OK under Poch and i kept thinking soon enough, he'll be a really top player for us, if not at the time.

Now under Koeman he looks pretty poor, very ineffective.

Funny with Koeman, who has brought in a lot of players from abroad and the current crop of young players arent really getting a look in. The constant overlooking of Reed is an odd one, especially when you think of how he played against Everton when called upon last year.

I can't decide whether the players aren't good enough or whether Koeman is hindering them - leaning towards them not being good enough, but when you watch us play like last night, just smashing it forward, that is something Koeman can affect and isn't.

At the risk of sounding like a big girls blouse, JWP gives his all and clearly has real passion for the club. If the player is trying his best but does not have the ability it is very harsh to criticise him as fiercely as some on here. i have never rated his attributes as a footballer and do not see where he fits into Saints but for his own good the people around him should recognise this and support his development.

A consistently underwhelming player whose limitations have been obvious for some time.

Would rather see Reed in the team than JWP at the moment. Different types of player but I think Reed could offer the team more in terms of bringing some stability and bite to the centre of the park.