FC Midtjylland 1 Saints 0 - Post Match reaction

Nice try but even with all the better defenders missing, Koeman should have played a more offensive game against a very mediocre opponent with very poor attackers. There is no excuse for him. Koeman was a coward this time, he should have been the typical Dutch coach who would have handled this situation as follows: "when you're defence is the weak point you focus on your attack in order to prevent you're opponent to hurt your defence..." You won't do this against the big teams off course but against FC Midtjylland? Come on...

Was Koeman a typical Dutch coach with you, though? He was very effective; but your previous posts suggest that you were very pretty direct under him and got the ball early and often to Pelle?

I predicted the 1-0 defeat on one of the FB supporters page. The reason was simple. What little I did know of the opposition, its was enough to know they could sit out and stop us scoring fairly easily. We do not have goal scorers at the moment with a anywhere near decent enough conversion rate. RK will steady the ship with regards the defence, of that I have no doubts.... we will not be relegation material. But this has to be viewed as a season for a team-in-progress.... and we can expect nothing more than mid table and hopefully some great football to enjoy. It was obvious during the run-in last season that we would loose Clyne and Spider and probably Toby too and that we were not converting chances game after game. I do trust RK will get it right, but he has had to transform almost a whole team from 13/14 and you can not do that easily... last season was a bit of an illusion in the grand scheme of things. We have to get real.

I predicted the 1-0 defeat on one of the FB supporters page. The reason was simple. What little I did know of the opposition, its was enough to know they could sit out and stop us scoring fairly easily. We do not have goal scorers at the moment with a anywhere near decent enough conversion rate. RK will steady the ship with regards the defence, of that I have no doubts.... we will not be relegation material. But this has to be viewed as a season for a team-in-progress.... and we can expect nothing more than mid table and hopefully some great football to enjoy. It was obvious during the run-in last season that we would loose Clyne and Spider and probably Toby too and that we were not converting chances game after game. I do trust RK will get it right, but he has had to transform almost a whole team from 13/14 and you can not do that easily... last season was a bit of an illusion in the grand scheme of things. We have to get real.

Is it conversion rate or chance creation? What chances should the strikers have 'converted' last night?

Is it conversion rate or creativity? What chances should the strikers have taken last night?

I'd agree it's more creativity. A couple of chances early on might have gone in but all too often we move the ball through midfield (or worse, hoof it up to Pelle) then hit a brick wall.

If we get it wide the crosses are predictable and there just isn't the intelligent movement to make something happen. That's where we miss Lallana and even Lambert.

Tadic looked at the start of last season as though he would fill the gap but not now.

You can add in lack of understanding. We're not letting the same players play together often enough.

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One big plus point from last night is that we didn't concede from our own corner, although had Targett not scythed down Hassan that probably wouldn't be the case either!

Is it conversion rate or chance creation? What chances should the strikers have 'converted' last night?

One leads to the other... when strikers miss chance after chance... the midfield tends to want to make more sure higher up the field and there in it leads to less creativity... it can be a vicious circle... and usually the only way to break it is for a striker(s) to suddenly find form or the addition of a proven goal scorer who generates goals with their own initiative and/or pace. I said it all last season ( and was ridiculed my most of my mates and family ) .. Mane is not good enough as a consistent striker .. and is a bit of a luxury player. Its just how I see it. I like watching him play and do not want to see him go but he needs a different formula around him. RK will get it right , but it may be a season-long juggle and forming exercise.. I have no worries.. Just quiet concerns at the moment.. LOL...

I appreciate your informed insight but that makes him a rather expensive gamble, doesn't it?

 

If not that one, what role can you see him fulfilling effectively?

Well, at Feyenoord and in a couple of games in the Dutch national team he was a great DM because of his abilities to cut off the attack of the opponent by conquering the ball in midfield or near his own box immediately followed by a clear cut pass to one of the attackers. His insight helps him to be in the right place at the right time. Like the real van Hanegem says: "you don't have to be fast when you know where the ball is going to go..." That's what I mean with football intelligence, it's like a game of chess when you're able to think ahead for a couple of moves. Clearly the Saints need some more intelligent players with the loss of Schneiderlin. I haven't seen much of Romeu thus far but from what I have seen I believe he does add some intellect to the team whereas Wanyama... Well, Wanyama puts something else to the team but I would only use him when you need to guard a great opponents midfielder. So I would like to see Clasie play with Romeu as the defensive midfielders in a 4-3-3 system with the attacking midfielder close to Pelle. As JWP, Davis and so on are not the right players for this position, I would like to see Koeman trying Juanmi as the attacking midfielder. When needed Koeman could switch to 4-4-2 adding Wanyama to the team when more "body" is needed in midfield.

The thing is that a 4-3-3 usually works when the whole team including the defence plays an offensive game, trying to keep the opponent under pressure and creating opportunities using the wingers and playing with a high ball circulation. It's the way Ajax used to defeat English opponents who got tired of running after the ball all the time... Tadic in form is a great winger in this system but Mane does have to learn a few things. His pace is great on the counterattack but he's still a bit "blind" when he's running with the ball and needs to have a better eye for the situation in front of him. The real trick for Koeman would be to get his defenders playing more forward instead of leaning back and I'm guessing that he lacks the confidence to do this. As a former defender Koeman likes to keep the backdoor closed at all cost before thinking how to score. Often boring to look at but it can be very effective as he proved with Feyenoord and last year with the Saints. Mind you, I quite liked what Ronnie did with Feyenoord but I'd expected he would be a little more adventurous with the Saints as he now has the millions to get the right players.

Sorry for dwelling off from your question! Clasie as a DM will eventually deliver (whether a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2) when he's used to the team and the pace of the PL, off course it would have been better for him to start in a team that already has gelled together but given time it will work out. Let's hope we'll see this kind of passing many times!

We got Davis and JWP playing off Pelle and it caused them problems for the first five or ten mins and things might have been different, save some lucky blocks and deflections. They focussed on snuffing out the second ball -and we didn't seem to know how to respond.

I didnt see any evidence of that really.. but assuming thats what did happen do we really have nobody better than JWP and Davis to be moving up into supporting roles on the front line? Two of the worst finishers in the squad probably

I didnt see any evidence of that really.. but assuming thats what did happen do we really have nobody better than JWP and Davis to be moving up into supporting roles on the front line? Two of the worst finishers in the squad probably

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis and Ward-Prowse will need to be replaced. Tadic and Juanmi need playing time over these two surely?

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis and Ward-Prowse will need to be replaced. Tadic and Juanmi need playing time over these two surely?

Exactly my point

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis and Ward-Prowse will need to be replaced. Tadic and Juanmi need playing time over these two surely?

Agree to some extent, especially about JWP. The trouble with Davis is he can play an utter blinder some days and (e.g. newcastle) be our standout player !

He's very inconsistent, which to be fair to him all our players have been.

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis and Ward-Prowse will need to be replaced. Tadic and Juanmi need playing time over these two surely?

See the problem is the fact they are our top choices already reflects our regression. Davis was signed as a rotation CM and is now expected to be our midfield magician. JWP is being forced to become the new Beckham. This is outrageous, we really should've tried to get rid of Ramirez and spent some money on someone who can do Lallana's role...but we got Djuricic on loan. Go figure why.

As for Tadic, I don't expect him to improve us in any way.

Was Koeman a typical Dutch coach with you, though? He was very effective; but your previous posts suggest that you were very pretty direct under him and got the ball early and often to Pelle?

Like I said above, Koeman is a former defender who likes to keep the backdoor closed before thinking about how to score, that's not your typical Dutch coach... Off course he knows all about the "Dutch School" but I guess his time in Spain and Portugal as a player and a coach will have influenced him. For example: his selection last night with 5 defenders wasn't the first time I saw this. When Feyenoord was struggling in a certain period he chose to play with de Vrij, Martins Indi, Kongolo, Janmaat and Matthijssen with Clasie and El Ahmadi as DM's. As I remember there weren't any defenders left to sit on the bench... This strategy did pay off as Dutch opponents weren't able to deal with this defensive shield while Pelle was a constant threat when Clasie could use his long ball. Against the Danes there was no Clasie to support Pelle and above all: the Saints didn't need all this defenders as the Danish attack wasn't something to be scared off, was it?

It was always going to be a struggle at the start of this season without five (and last night six) of last year's 'back seven'. We will get better, and I can still see a decent cup run coming up (but I've always been a bit glass half full).

Still, the most annoying thing was the tactics used against the woeful Danes - even McManaman and Hargreaves could see that and neither of them are the sharpest cones on the training ground.

How could we have been worse with two of Tadic, Long, Juanmi or Mane on from the start? And if Mane wasn't fit to play at least half an hour, why the hell was he on the bench?

It was always going to be a struggle at the start of this season without five (and last night six) of last year's 'back seven'. We will get better, and I can still see a decent cup run coming up (but I've always been a bit glass half full).

 

Still, the most annoying thing was the tactics used against the woeful Danes - even McManaman and Hargreaves could see that and neither of them are the sharpest cones on the training ground.

 

How could we have been worse with two of Tadic, Long, Juanmi or Mane on from the start? And if Mane wasn't fit to play at least half an hour, why the hell was he on the bench?

Because we had no one else ?

Given that we desperately needed a goal and Mané was the most likely player to get it for us you can really only come to the conclusion that he wasn't fit enough to play and was named on the bench by default. Koeman isn't going to use the young players, even though Reed said that they would take up the extra games caused by the EL, Gaston is personna non-grata again and there was no-one else fit. Tadic looked in a poor way but we played him for a while anyway, desperation stakes ?

Well, at Feyenoord /SNIP/

Thanks for your analysis. I think at the moment we're missing both footballing intelligence and, possibly more importantly, confidence. The team certainly haven't gelled and aren't performing to the level we know they can.

Thanks for your analysis. I think at the moment we're missing both footballing intelligence and, possibly more importantly, confidence. The team certainly haven't gelled and aren't performing to the level we know they can.

But basically we have no real idea of what last night's team are actually capable of, most of them are fairly new to us and

several wouldn't normally be in the starting line up. Personally Ii know nothing about Juanmi,Cedric,Martina, Caulker or Romeu. I know that Targett isn't good enough for the first team and that JWP is a wimp so that leaves just 5 regular first team players. last night's side was a seriously diminished version of the team we know and that got us to this competition in the first place.

I'm trying to think of reasons to be positive at the moment:

1) The sun is finally out.

2) No more clashes with Thursday night training and Sunday afternoon games.

3) Potentially saved myself a lot of money on going to a game abroad.

4) Players to come back from injury and getting to full fitness. That includes Tadic with his virus(?) who did at least make a difference when he came on last night.

5) I'm cooking slow-cooked shoulder of lamb and entertaining tonight.

6) There's a home game on Sunday (is this a positive?).

7) The sun is still out.

I could be like Alpine.

Hey, I've just cheered myself up! :-)

Koeman is now being found wanting - and he is deluding himself by the sound of it. The camera shots of our b3ench spoke volumes - why doesn't someone get up and try to encourage them instead of sitting like four dopey ducks in a row?

The tactics were wrong (hoofball), the selections were wrong (why 3 CBs??), motivation looks poor, it is quite depressing and the only thing we have going for us is that Bertrand, Clasie and Mane are due to come back soon (I hope).

Things will get better Sue, it will take some time and hard work but the Koeman bro's are up for the task ahead. Sorry for referring to his time at Feyenoord all the time but in his last season at Feyenoord he lost the first three games in the Eredivisie and got knocked out of the Uefa League. In the end Feyenoord finished second in the Dutch league leaving a better opponent like psv behind them. So Koeman has experienced a bad start before and is able to turn things around... Too bad he f*cked up last night as the Saints don't have much of a chance to qualify for Europe regularly. Like all of you I was looking forward for a great European tour and the Saints making a name for themselves throughout Europe. Hopefully things will go better in the FA Cup as it is probably the only way to get into Europe again. Or does the winner of the League Cup also qualify?

Mijytlland are with Naples,Bruges and Legia Warsaw...although perhaps we wouldn't have had the same seeding or ball number. Would have been good.

Mijytlland are with Naples,Bruges and Legia Warsaw...although perhaps we wouldn't have had the same seeding or ball number. Would have been good.

Reckon MittyBittyLand might get through that.

They'll finish bottom of that group and not score a goal, making it even more embarrassing that they knocked us out.

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis... will need to be replaced.

Six months or so ago, saying exactly this almost got me lynched on here...

Six months or so ago, saying exactly this almost got me lynched on here...

I know but it takes time to sink in.

QUOTE=van Hanegem;2243498]Usually the influence of a coach on his team is highly overrated but in this case Koeman deserves the full blame for this defeat against some very mediocre hard working Danes. His selection, his tactics, his failing to change the team at half time, he got it all wrong. He used this tactics with Feyenoord a few times against better opponents when there were problems with the defence. To play this system when you know you have to score to a mediocre opponent is sheer cowardice. The only good thing to come out of it is that he will think twice before he does it again...

The thing that worries me most is the lack of intelligence and creativity. JWP, Davis, JRod, Wanyama, and so on work hard but lack the brains that every team need. Clasie is not the midfielder who's going to change that, he's able to deliver some great passing but he's not the playmaker the Saints desperately need. So much millions to spend and no brains in the team, that is really shamefull for a Dutch coach...

You nailed it, sir. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the need for a playmaker. Too many players running behind the defense or laying in the area, no one to actually put an accurate pass in there. We need someone who can put a shift when it's needed and go for a one-two quickly when is needed, with the vision to switch the ball to the other flank, and of course, give a killer pass. Too many runners, too many finishers, no set-up man.

Everything you said is spot-on, this one is on Koeman and his negative hoof-hoof-tactics.

Six months or so ago, saying exactly this almost got me lynched on here...

LOL. Your favourite (only) subject. Obsessed.

Of course we could but Koeman didn't, he's not an outside of the box thinker by all of the signs so far. Too much Dutch and not enough enlightened ideas. Sooner he's gone the better it will be I think. Just sits there with his brother and looks ****ed off all of the time.

It may have escaped your notice, but RK is on crutches at the moment. A minor detail, but one worth mentioning.

Koeman is now being found wanting - and he is deluding himself by the sound of it. The camera shots of our b3ench spoke volumes - why doesn't someone get up and try to encourage them instead of sitting like four dopey ducks in a row?

 

The tactics were wrong (hoofball), the selections were wrong (why 3 CBs??), motivation looks poor, it is quite depressing and the only thing we have going for us is that Bertrand, Clasie and Mane are due to come back soon (I hope).

Easy to say in hindsight. I was also completely miffed by the selection but in actual fact we kept a clean sheet with 5-2-3. His plan was probably have as strong a defence as possible, knowing that hoofballs would only stand a very slim chance of leading to a goal. Then halftime/60 mins into the game, bring on tadic, juanmi, long (which they did) and change to an attacking formation.

I think that's quite a good gameplan, actually.

Besides, Midtjylland are a team that basically anywhere within our half pose a threat from the throw ins with that freakish LB who can throw it about 50 yards.

So stick on 3 CBs for some height, Martina instead of Cedric for some more presence in the box, that's probably why.

You can talk all day long about 'setting up as a negative team' but Nonsense. Defending isn't automatically pessimistic and going all out isn't necessarily 'optimistic', as has become the rhetoric of football fans and pundits.

I think Rodriguez didn't stick to the plan, he fannied around in the corner, passed it direct to whatshisname who scored. Had he just got it away and played it safe, which was clearly the gameplan, we could well be in a different situation.

I know what would have happened if we'd played 4 2 3 1 or something like, and lost. We'd have asked why we set up like that when with key defensive players missing, we made it hard for ourselves and basically meant we had to score 2 goals because we were bound to concede.

Easy to say in hindsight. I was also completely miffed by the selection but in actual fact we kept a clean sheet with 5-2-3. His plan was probably have as strong a defence as possible, knowing that hoofballs would only stand a very slim chance of leading to a goal. Then halftime/60 mins into the game, bring on tadic, juanmi, long (which they did) and change to an attacking formation.

 

I think that's quite a good gameplan, actually.

 

Besides, Midtjylland are a team that basically anywhere within our half pose a threat from the throw ins with that freakish LB who can throw it about 50 yards.

 

So stick on 3 CBs for some height, Martina instead of Cedric for some more presence in the box, that's probably why.

 

You can talk all day long about 'setting up as a negative team' but Nonsense. Defending isn't automatically pessimistic and going all out isn't necessarily 'optimistic', as has become the rhetoric of football fans and pundits.

 

I think Rodriguez didn't stick to the plan, he fannied around in the corner, passed it direct to whatshisname who scored. Had he just got it away and played it safe, which was clearly the gameplan, we could well be in a different situation.

 

I know what would have happened if we'd played 4 2 3 1 or something like, and lost. We'd have asked why we set up like that when with key defensive players missing, we made it hard for ourselves and basically meant we had to score 2 goals because we were bound to concede.

Tbh, given the fact that a goal for them didn't really change a great deal, we still needed a goal, then I don't see why we didn't go for broke from the start. There was no need to be conservative. This wasn't Barcelona, this was FC Midtjyland.

Tbh, given the fact that a goal for them didn't really change a great deal, we still needed a goal, then I don't see why we didn't go for broke from the start. There was no need to be conservative. This wasn't Barcelona, this was FC Midtjyland.

Yes I do agree, and I would definitely have encouraged going all out to get a goal. Maybe he was just sitting back letting them tire a bit. I really don;t know. I'm not arsed about defending koeman to the hilt, I think he's an excellent coach and who knows why we set out like we did.

What I would say is the formation was less of a deal than the selection. I think Martina instead of Cedric, JWP instead of Juanmi and Davis instead of Tadic were baffling choices. With those changes, a 523 might have been quite good

If Cedric and targett played as far up the pitch as they did at watford, that's quite attacking actually

You nailed it, sir. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the need for a playmaker. Too many players running behind the defense or laying in the area, no one to actually put an accurate pass in there. We need someone who can put a shift when it's needed and go for a one-two quickly when is needed, with the vision to switch the ball to the other flank, and of course, give a killer pass. Too many runners, too many finishers, no set-up man.

Everything you said is spot-on, this one is on Koeman and his negative hoof-hoof-tactics.

Let's hope Juanmi will be able to play and used by Koeman as an attacking midfielder behind Pelle, he's a player who can create opportunities for himself and for other players. However, I read somewhere that he needs this season to get used to the PL as he is still a young and rather unexperienced player and that he will be of value in his second year. The same goes for Clasie but I do hope that they'll adept much faster as the team needs some intellect desperately...

[quote=

Quote Originally Posted by disconnect View Post

If we're serious about progression, or at least retaining a decent Prem finish, Davis... will need to be replaced.

verlaine1979;2244050]Six months or so ago, saying exactly this almost got me lynched on here...

Saying this 6 days ago nearly got me lynched

Saying this 6 days ago nearly got me lynched

Diddums

Saying this 6 days ago nearly got me lynched

Yes, but a lot of posters have changed their tune now that they have had their 'rose tinted spectacles ' rudely knocked off.

I, myself, suddenly find thaty my sentiments are mainstream after a torrent of abuse from some posters, who are probably busy airbrushing history again.

Besides, Midtjylland are a team that basically anywhere within our half pose a threat from the throw ins with that freakish LB who can throw it about 50 yards.

 

So stick on 3 CBs for some height, Martina instead of Cedric for some more presence in the box, that's probably why.

Usually FCM are lethal at set pieces, but do not score all that many goals in open play, so 3 CBs did prevent FCM from doing much damage from corners and their long throw-ins ... unfortunately FCM are also quite efficient if you make a defensive blunder or two in open play ... perhaps the real lesson learned is that you should make a bid on Erik Sviatchenko ... he is the best Danish centre back at the moment ... ahead of Agger and Jores Okore ...

Usually FCM are lethal at set pieces, but do not score all that many goals in open play, so 3 CBs did prevent FCM from doing much damage from corners and their long throw-ins ... unfortunately FCM are also quite efficient if you make a defensive blunder or two in open play ... perhaps the real lesson learned is that you should make a bid on Erik Sviatchenko ... he is the best Danish centre back at the moment ... ahead of Agger and Jores Okore ...

Who's no.15? Cynical c**t doesnt begin to describe him...

Yes, but a lot of posters have changed their tune now that they have had their 'rose tinted spectacles ' rudely knocked off.

 

I, myself, suddenly find thaty my sentiments are mainstream after a torrent of abuse from some posters, who are probably busy airbrushing history again.

********.

That was "b@llocks" in case you didn't work it out.

Now we know what the migrants feel like trying to stay in Europe.....difficult.

********.

 

 

That was "b@llocks" in case you didn't work it out.

Ow, I interpreted it as 'genius' perhaps others did as well !

I'm trying to think of reasons to be positive at the moment:

 

1) The sun is finally out.

2) No more clashes with Thursday night training and Sunday afternoon games.

3) Potentially saved myself a lot of money on going to a game abroad.

4) Players to come back from injury and getting to full fitness. That includes Tadic with his virus(?) who did at least make a difference when he came on last night.

5) I'm cooking slow-cooked shoulder of lamb and entertaining tonight.

6) There's a home game on Sunday (is this a positive?).

7) The sun is still out.

I could be like Alpine.

 

Hey, I've just cheered myself up! :-)

You forgot we basically got a bye in the capital one cup

"That's what I mean with football intelligence, it's like a game of chess..." ... I would like to see Koeman trying Juanmi as the attacking midfielder. ... but Mane does have to learn a few things. His pace is great on the counterattack but he's still a bit "blind" when he's running with the ball and needs to have a better eye for the situation in front of him. "

"Sorry for dwelling off from your question! Clasie as a DM will eventually deliver (whether a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2) when he's used to the team and the pace of the PL, off course it would have been better for him to start in a team that already has gelled together but given time it will work out. Let's hope we'll see this kind of passing many times!"

1/ Yes. Football is like speed chess with real players on grass. People still ignore the many mental components that are vital, not just the fact that self-belief is needed and that this can become eroded quite easily and quickly in the duration of a game - think of a defender who has an attacker in his pocket, for example.

2/ I think he'll turn out well if given time and when the ball is passed to him he will need 2 options immediately (which is good play, anyway) so he can give and go and then he will cause teams problems.

3/ I agree: Mane needs to learn to be more of a team player still. He will always have that maverick streak, however, which when used well will help ensure he becomes a very good player.

4/ I think Clasie and Juanmi will need several months of introduction to become fully competent with the way the game is played in the PL so I don't expect to see too much from them until Feb next year when/if they've had 3 solid months of being bedded in, but then I think they'll deliver.

5/ We've already seen one good ball like this from Clasie in his short stint in the under 21s, and I expect J Rod in particular will feast upon this. Mane and Juanmi too although I think they are still not quite as proficient in front of goal as JR (when fit and functioning, currently we see he isn't).

6/ Nice to see that some people get that football is very much about movement and space (see point 1, above).

Instead of imposing ourselves on the game & playing our way, we tried to play their way & failed miserably. Hopefully we have learned from our European experience!

Nice to see that some people get that football is very much about movement and space (see point 1, above).

Thanks for your reaction Dangermouth, good to see there are some football aficionados on this forum! Football is indeed very much about movement and space and about details off course. Sometimes a small detail decides who's going to win. For example: I like this story from Johan Cruyff when he was the manager at Barcelona. One day they had to play an opponent with a very dangerous attacker who had scored many times against them as the Barcelona defence didn't know how to handle him. Cruyff analysed this attacker and saw that he allways stood with his back against his defender so he could "feel" him which made it easier to turn away from him when he got the ball. Cruyff instructed his defence to stay clear from this attacker, giving him a yard or so and enough time to control the ball. This worked well as the attacker didn't know what to do next with the Barcelona defence in front of him. That way Cruyff made this guy feel insecure and harmless.

The best coaches are the ones who are able to make their individual players better at what they do (and the team as a whole off course). There aren't many of them, even in the PL. It's quite remarkable how often English clubs are eliminated in Europe given all the millions they have to get the best players... I'm not referring to Koeman here directly, though he got it all wrong against this Danish side tactically I know from his time at Feyenoord he's able to improve his team and individual players. Jordy Clasie, Stefan de Vrij, Sven van Beek and Bruno Martins Indi (a very limited defender who's highly overrated btw) for example all profited from Koeman's knowledge and experience. These were all yougsters off course and willing to learn, I'm curious if Koeman is able to get through to Caulker, Yoshida, Fonte and the other "elderly" men as they could do with some advice from an experienced player like Koeman.

Six months or so ago, saying exactly this almost got me lynched on here...

Why did you delete JWP?

You really are an idiot. The biggest troll I've ever read.

Why did you delete JWP?

 

You really are an idiot. The biggest troll I've ever read.

It's called an ellipsis, they're commonly used to indicate that something not immediately relevant to the quotation has been omitted.

As I've said before, your bleeding-heart outrage whenever anyone dares question whether Davis deserves a place as our primary attacking creator is just baffling - far more so than my reasonable criticism that in the last 18 months he's scored no goals and provided a whole 2 assists. JWP's performances have dipped since he returned from injury last season, and he certainly doesn't look like the answer at the moment, but at least he doesn't waft his corners like a gentle back pass to the first defender.

Leaving aside the utter blip of the Villa game, in our last 17 games of last season we managed 15 goals. Over a whole season, that would equate to 33/34 goals, which is basically relegation form. You really don't believe our central attacking midfielder doesn't warrant any blame for such poor returns? You really don't believe we'd be better off with someone capable of taking on players and delivering incisive forward passes rather than high percentage safe balls out to the fullbacks or back to the CBs?

You're welcome to your own ludicrously misguided point of view, but the figures don't lie - we're desperately short of goals and Davis neither scores nor creates, so we have to do better in that position.

Thanks for your reaction Dangermouth, good to see there are some football aficionados on this forum! Football is indeed very much about movement and space and about details off course. Sometimes a small detail decides who's going to win. For example: I like this story from Johan Cruyff when he was the manager at Barcelona. One day they had to play an opponent with a very dangerous attacker who had scored many times against them as the Barcelona defence didn't know how to handle him. Cruyff analysed this attacker and saw that he allways stood with his back against his defender so he could "feel" him which made it easier to turn away from him when he got the ball. Cruyff instructed his defence to stay clear from this attacker, giving him a yard or so and enough time to control the ball. This worked well as the attacker didn't know what to do next with the Barcelona defence in front of him. That way Cruyff made this guy feel insecure and harmless.

 

The best coaches are the ones who are able to make their individual players better at what they do (and the team as a whole off course). There aren't many of them, even in the PL. It's quite remarkable how often English clubs are eliminated in Europe given all the millions they have to get the best players... I'm not referring to Koeman here directly, though he got it all wrong against this Danish side tactically I know from his time at Feyenoord he's able to improve his team and individual players. Jordy Clasie, Stefan de Vrij, Sven van Beek and Bruno Martins Indi (a very limited defender who's highly overrated btw) for example all profited from Koeman's knowledge and experience. These were all yougsters off course and willing to learn, I'm curious if Koeman is able to get through to Caulker, Yoshida, Fonte and the other "elderly" men as they could do with some advice from an experienced player like Koeman.

On that I think that Koeman has sufficient playing credentials and intelligence to negate the worry that players won't want to learn off him and I would think Yoshida and Fonte are both humble enough and open-minded enough to do so. It's perhaps more a question of their own adaptability. I think that goes for most of the other players too. My gripe about Koeman is that his English hasn't improved sufficiently: I dislike seeing van Gaal actually doing better, even though he still makes many mistakes!

I like that Cruyff story. The hope is of course that the players can do that for themselves during the opening stages of the match, but that probably takes an older head and a bit of savvy: I like intelligent people as well as footballers (e.g. Le Tissier) because I think that gives a coach exactly what he wants. The converse is a worry, however: if you want look at the interview by Matt Targett in "When Saturday Comes": he comes across as the stereotypical 'thick' footballer (whereas Reed doesn't) which does make me wonder which of them will go on to have the better career. I would say Reed, provided he learns to copy Clasie (ball-playing, looking up and reading the game).

On that I think that Koeman has sufficient playing credentials and intelligence to negate the worry that players won't want to learn off him and I would think Yoshida and Fonte are both humble enough and open-minded enough to do so. It's perhaps more a question of their own adaptability. I think that goes for most of the other players too. My gripe about Koeman is that his English hasn't improved sufficiently: I dislike seeing van Gaal actually doing better, even though he still makes many mistakes!

 

I like that Cruyff story. The hope is of course that the players can do that for themselves during the opening stages of the match, but that probably takes an older head and a bit of savvy: I like intelligent people as well as footballers (e.g. Le Tissier) because I think that gives a coach exactly what he wants. The converse is a worry, however: if you want look at the interview by Matt Targett in "When Saturday Comes": he comes across as the stereotypical 'thick' footballer (whereas Reed doesn't) which does make me wonder which of them will go on to have the better career. I would say Reed, provided he learns to copy Clasie (ball-playing, looking up and reading the game).

In Holland we have a football show on telly every monday and friday evening, it's set up like a pub in which some former players and some pundits talk about footy in a serious way with a touch of humour. This show wouldn't be allowed in England on national television as it gets really vulgar sometimes (imagine a twisted version of Jeremy Clarkson on pentothal, expressing his real feelings and getting really vile about everyone he hates...) but is actually very funny as they ridicule everyone who deserves it. It's no surprise that Louis van Gaal is regularly the main target so we get to see all the awkward moments and bloopers of this maniac whose ego is hard to bare. Van Gaal's English is improving so we all hope he won't win the title with ManU because you then get to hear the most disgusting speech you'll ever hear from a manager. Don't know if you speak any German but listen to this when Bayern Munich became champion with van Gaal:

You're right about Koeman's English but I suppose it isn't that big a problem on the training ground as he will know the right terms to instruct or coach a player. His English assistants will have helped him in this field.

I agree: players should be intelligent enough to adept their game to their direct opponent by themselves but you seldomly see players like Le Tissier anymore. Nowadays they get so many instructions you start to wonder if they can think for themselves. Look for example at Frans Hoek (a former goalie of the second division club Volendam you'll probably never heard of...), he's the assistant of Louis van Gaal and tells renowned players what they have to do on the pitch. It's laughable...

In Holland we have a football show on telly every monday and friday evening, it's set up like a pub in which some former players and some pundits talk about footy in a serious way with a touch of humour. This show wouldn't be allowed in England on national television as it gets really vulgar sometimes (imagine a twisted version of Jeremy Clarkson on pentothal, expressing his real feelings and getting really vile about everyone he hates...) but is actually very funny as they ridicule everyone who deserves it. It's no surprise that Louis van Gaal is regularly the main target so we get to see all the awkward moments and bloopers of this maniac whose ego is hard to bare. Van Gaal's English is improving so we all hope he won't win the title with ManU because you then get to hear the most disgusting speech you'll ever hear from a manager. Don't know if you speak any German but listen to this when Bayern Munich became champion with van Gaal:

 

 

You're right about Koeman's English but I suppose it isn't that big a problem on the training ground as he will know the right terms to instruct or coach a player. His English assistants will have helped him in this field.

I agree: players should be intelligent enough to adept their game to their direct opponent by themselves but you seldomly see players like Le Tissier anymore. Nowadays they get so many instructions you start to wonder if they can think for themselves. Look for example at Frans Hoek (a former goalie of the second division club Volendam you'll probably never heard of...), he's the assistant of Louis van Gaal and tells renowned players what they have to do on the pitch. It's laughable...

Thanks for the video: my German isn't too hot but I got enough of it to get the gist of it. I agree, van Gall is comedy gold at times!

I also agree with the over-coaching part. Certainly it seems as though the English players are very subject to it and it seems to be the case with many of our under 21s, which is perhaps why they just play it safe all the time, like robots. It's annoying because you want them to just play with a free spirit but with a structure and I wonder if the coaches and players err on the side of caution when it's clear the players don't know when to be tight/controlled in their play and when to seize or make an opportunity

Still gutted 60 hours later but don't worry we are going to do it all again next year

http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/13632746.Ward_Prowse_confident_Southampton_can_return_to_Europe/?ref=rss