EU referendum

Time for us to unite and plan our exciting future outside the EU. Let us go forward together.

I am very disappointed, but recognise the result and now desperately want to see some real leadership to ensure we execute our withdrawal for the EU effectively and honourably. I am a glass half full person and while this result saddens me it provides an opportunity to re-energise politics and increase engagement and participation. The hard part has just begun and delivering the benefits of Brexit will be watched closely. The euphoria of gaining independence for the United Kingdom may well presage the break up of the United Kingdom as Scotland voted unanimously to Remain and will I believe leave the Union.

Cameron is rightly being challenged on his failure to deliver a remain vote and will resign, but in my view it Corbyn who should shoulder the most blame and resign. Corbyn has been an apathetic participant in the campaign, it is the Labour Heartlands that have delivered on a Right Wing policy and he should resign.

Finally whilst we have had some impassioned exchanges and penned the odd insult I have enjoyed the debate on here. There have been some thought provoking and heartfelt arguments from both sides and if that can be magnified across politics in general around the country that can only be a good thing for democracy.

Some very worthy sentiments which I agree with.

Susanna Reid to Nigel Farage "So will the £ 350 million go to the NHS as promised ?"

Farage replies "It was a mistake to say that."

Or those who have the most experience of living in the EU want to leave...

I don't know about most of you but one of the most annoying things to me is that the Sun got it right again. Unless of course one dares to think that British voting trends really are effected by crap like the Sun.

I don't know about most of you but one of the most annoying things to me is that the Sun got it right again. Unless of course one dares to think that British voting trends really are effected by crap like the Sun.

And the Daily Mail, don't forget them.

And yes, the Great British Public really do believe all that they read.

Susanna Reid to Nigel Farage "So will the £ 350 million go to the NHS as promised ?"

Farage replies "It was a mistake to say that."

Stupid question. Farage never made a promise. He's not even in government FFS.

It's very weird how people, throughout this debate, asked questions of the campaigns which one-supposed they were running for government. They weren't. Obviously.

This is one of the major problems in having an "in"/"out" referendum when there is no government which has stood on an "out" manifesto. Frankly, we have no idea what the government is going to do for the remainder of its term.

I'm not sure what the answer is, other than running the referendum in parallel with a general election where parties give an "in" and an "out" manifesto.

Also, I echo the sentiments from someone earlier about Corbyn's performance in this. Leave has won due to big votes in Labour heartland areas. Corbyn's bemusing, disinterested, half-assed approach for someone who allegedly supported "remain" has been a disgrace, frankly. His resignation is no less compelling a requirement than Cameron's.

Time for us to unite and plan our exciting future outside the EU. Let us go backward together.

Fixed it for you

Maybe if people are so concerned by the impact of Brexit they should have listened to the concerns of English people sooner.

 

Being a Labour/Left-Wing supporter must be similar to being a Skate these days. Failure, after failure, completely out of touch with reality.

Indeed. The forgotten people in so may ways.

Stupid question. Farage never made a promise. He's not even in government FFS.

 

.

But he was the catalyst for the whole shebang, and played a prominent role in the Brexit campaign. As the interview continued, "How many people were influenced to vote leave on the basis of that 'mistake' ?"

Christ there's some right meltdowns happening right now. Leave voters - would you have reacted like this had it gone the other way, or like me would you have just said "oh well, lets get on with it"?

Stupid question. Farage never made a promise. He's not even in government FFS.

 

It's very weird how people, throughout this debate, asked questions of the campaigns which one-supposed they were running for government. They weren't. Obviously.

 

This is one of the major problems in having an "in"/"out" referendum when there is no government which has stood on an "out" manifesto. Frankly, we have no idea what the government is going to do for the remainder of its term.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, other than running the referendum in parallel with a general election where parties give an "in" and an "out" manifesto.

 

Also, I echo the sentiments from someone earlier about Corbyn's performance in this. Leave has won due to big votes in Labour heartland areas. Corbyn's bemusing, disinterested, half-assed approach for someone who allegedly supported "remain" has been a disgrace, frankly. His resignation is no less compelling a requirement than Cameron's.

I agree with your appraisal apart from the bit about Farage. He has fought strongly to create this mess and is now backing away as fast as he can.

If you really believe in conspiracies then you might argue that Corbyn was a plant designed to bring about an early general election at which the Labour Party would enjoy some success.

Christ there's some right meltdowns happening right now. Leave voters - would you have reacted like this had it gone the other way, or like me would you have just said "oh well, lets get on with it"?

I suspect that you may be underestimating the significance of this complete farce.

Christ there's some right meltdowns happening right now. Leave voters - would you have reacted like this had it gone the other way, or like me would you have just said "oh well, lets get on with it"?

Yep. I thought leave had lost last night and I simply said never mind let's move on. It's not the apocalypse but the way some people have been going on this morning it's like it's the end of the world.

For me Cameron played the whole thing wrong and played far too much of a prominent role in the campaign. Spouting some of the crap that he did meant that he was a dead man walking whichever way the vote went, plus it undermined what little credibility he had left.

I think he should have outlined the pros and cons of staying/leaving the EU and then stated that whatever the outcome, he would carry out the will of the people, then allowed the campaign to go ahead with him on the sidelines.

So, could this be seen as a massive victory for socialism over capitalism? Labour's John Mann saying its a victory for 'working class over middle class'. Or, according to my Facebook timeline, people are saying its a victory for 'stupid' people over cleverer people.

 

I naively assumed people on all sides would be happy with democracy. It would appear not. Most people only seem happy with democracy when the vote goes their way. Gotta love human nature

For once I actually agree with Mr Mann (as one of the many who have lived under the yoke of oppression and will continue to do so). Your second paragraph is a truism and swung both ways and people on facebook are, by definition, not clever ergo ...

As I've not posted on this thread before I'll explain my politics to y'all

"I believe in iconoclasm and self-determination" - Dangermouth

So half the population have jobs , houses & opportunities and half don't . What complete and utter pony . If your ridiculous analysis is right , how do you explain the poorest , forgotten about areas went heavily for leave and London the richest most privileged part of the country heavily for remain .

Congratulations Duckie on your win I know how it feels when you achieve something that you want I wanted to Remain but not as desperately as you wanted to Leave

But dont be nasty to people with opposite opinions I think analysis will show that most people of working age voted remain and those over sixty voted out so loads of people work in and around London but many are not well off as they pay high transport and housing costs and work for foreign companies like my daughter and are worried that they will move to mainland Europe..

Of course the austerity setup by the Tories caused a great deal of resentment which I fully agree with but I cannot see the Tory party addressing that .

I want to see a fairer and equal society and I am like one of those nice Remain tellers you met last night so lets have a constructive conversation of how we want to move forward and what society we want we live in changing times globalisation climate change huge refugee problems poverty inequality intolerance and the key one for me how to manage an aging population as I am 70 years old but hope to survive for many years to come like all my friends and associates.

As a former member of the Labour Party I know it was what they want to happen not policies formulated by focus groups like New Labour but polices formulated by the grass roots.

PS who is going to pay for my extra diesel cost as prices go up and I see I may have lost 10% on my holiday euros

How odd, This morning I opened the curtains to find that; there isn't hellfire raining down, the world isn't in turmoil and there isn't anarchy in the streets followed by Armageddon & the second coming of Christ. In fact all that's happened is the country has lost a few quid on the FTSE100 index and a few elite bankers have made a few hundred mil on gambling with the nations assets. Who would have thought.... [emoji848]

That assumes that humans don't alter their viewpoint as they get older.

For me Cameron played the whole thing wrong and played far too much of a prominent role in the campaign. Spouting some of the crap that he did meant that he was a dead man walking whichever way the vote went, plus it undermined what little credibility he had left.

I think he should have outlined the pros and cons of staying/leaving the EU and then stated that whatever the outcome, he would carry out the will of the people, then allowed the campaign to go ahead with him on the sidelines.

So many luvvies on Twitter being very sour with all this.

Luvvies shouting "scum" at boris

These people really can't take a result. But like last year in the general election. They are the sort that are all for free speech unless they don't agree with you

How odd, This morning I opened the curtains to find that; there isn't hellfire raining down, the world isn't in turmoil and there isn't anarchy in the streets followed by Armageddon & the second coming of Christ. In fact all that's happened is the country has lost a few quid on the FTSE100 index and a few elite bankers have made a few hundred mil on gambling with the nations assets. Who would have thought.... [emoji848]

Then again you're probably not in Paris. In fact we should be a lesson to all European countries, if you let wimps like Hollande anywhere near the power structure, aided and abetted by Merkel, then you will pay the consequences. We've probably got more refugée camps than Jordan and Turkey combined. I was down in the south the other day, Artland, on every bit of wasteland not protected by three layer thick iron fencing there are 400 caravan gypsy settlements, and they aren't nice French people either. At every traffic light there are beggars who insult you in pigeon french if you don't give them anything.

Then again you're probably not in Paris. In fact we should be a lesson to all European countries, if you let wimps like Hollande anywhere near the power structure, aided and abetted by Merkel, then you will pay the consequences. We've probably got more refugée camps than Jordan and Turkey combined. I was down in the south the other day, Artland, on every bit of wasteland not protected by three layer thick iron fencing there are 400 caravan gypsy settlements, and they aren't nice French people either. At every traffic light there are beggars who insult you in pigeon french if you don't give them anything.

If the luvvies had their way, we would have Hollande in power here.

My father in-law has lived in France since 1990 and he suggest Brexit was the only way as France has transformed completely from what he has seen and not for the better in any way

Christ there's some right meltdowns happening right now. Leave voters - would you have reacted like this had it gone the other way, or like me would you have just said "oh well, lets get on with it"?

Possibly because 'getting on with it' wouldn't be as difficult as it's now going to be.

How odd, This morning I opened the curtains to find that; there isn't hellfire raining down, the world isn't in turmoil and there isn't anarchy in the streets followed by Armageddon & the second coming of Christ. In fact all that's happened is the country has lost a few quid on the FTSE100 index and a few elite bankers have made a few hundred mil on gambling with the nations assets. Who would have thought.... [emoji848]

RE: the FTSE crashing....

Headline = FTSE crashes

Reality = FTSE recovers 50% of the fall within the first hour... FTSE is still higher than it was a month ago and higher than it was three months ago.

But I guess that wouldn't scare people...

But it can leave you permanently crippled with wounds that will never heal.

True... but I have us / the UK down as a Sandor Clegane.

Possibly because 'getting on with it' wouldn't be as difficult as it's now going to be.

How?

There is a petition doing the rounds from the luvvies wanting a 2nd vote.

Sure that would have washed had remain won. Leave demanding another go

Then again you're probably not in Paris. In fact we should be a lesson to all European countries, if you let wimps like Hollande anywhere near the power structure, aided and abetted by Merkel, then you will pay the consequences. We've probably got more refugée camps than Jordan and Turkey combined. I was down in the south the other day, Artland, on every bit of wasteland not protected by three layer thick iron fencing there are 400 caravan gypsy settlements, and they aren't nice French people either. At every traffic light there are beggars who insult you in pigeon french if you don't give them anything.

I remember the old days when it used to be like that in Africa.

If the luvvies had their way, we would have Hollande in power here.

 

My father in-law has lived in France since 1990 and he suggest Brexit was the only way as France has transformed completely from what he has seen and not for the better in any way

He is not wrong, everything has gone down the crapper but at a faster rate since 2012. The generous social security system is crumbling under the weight of the demand and the whole set up is now a tinder box waiting for the fatal spark.

Possibly because 'getting on with it' wouldn't be as difficult as it's now going to be.

"Long is the way and hard, that out of hell leads up to light."

RE: the FTSE crashing....

 

Headline = FTSE crashes

Reality = FTSE recovers 50% of the fall within the first hour... FTSE is still higher than it was a month ago and higher than it was three months ago.

 

But I guess that wouldn't scare people...

The FTSE100 is around where it was a year ago. The £ against the $ is about 4% down on it's average over the past month.

Now that the gamblers have cut and run.

There is a petition doing the rounds from the luvvies wanting a 2nd vote.

 

Sure that would have washed had remain won. Leave demanding another go

All that would happen is a bigger majority for leave, now that people have seen that for the time being at least very little changes. Unless of course the remain party agreed to kick out say 2 million immigrants. It's not even about Europe really, it's about immigration. We can't control it's main sources so we've had a stab at the secondary source. Deport a couple of million Pakistanis and you'd see a change in opinion.

I missed Cameron's departure was it anything like this?

There is a petition doing the rounds from the luvvies wanting a 2nd vote.

 

Sure that would have washed had remain won. Leave demanding another go

The FTSE100 is around where it was a year ago. The £ against the $ is about 4% down on it's average over the past month.

 

Now that the gamblers have cut and run.

No improvement in a year is very poor and it's the longer term movement in the £/$ that you need to look at. Until late 2014 it was around $1.60 and has fallen steadily to around $1.40 which is beginning to threaten our status as the world's fifth largest economy. Short-term trends can be overlooked but it's where it will be 18 months from now that is questionable. Much depends on the forthcoming negotiations but any uncertainty is unhelpful.

I missed Cameron's departure was it anything like this?

 

That graphic bears a striking resemblance to Farage.

Krankie has just kicked off Jockxit.

"Long is the way and hard, that out of hell leads up to light."

Ooh, this is fun, let's try some other quotes:

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven."

"Now came still evening on, and twilight gray

Had in her sober livery all things clad;"

"Came not all hell broke loose?"

Or even Luke 23:34 ?

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"

As predicted, Nicola Sturgeon is on TV now saying that a second Scottish Independence referendum now very likley.

Vote Bretix get Scotix too is seems.

Krankie has just kicked off Jockxit.

Inevitable, wasn't it. If France or Germany get their acts together and offer a few hints about fast-tracking their application to join then They'll be off like a shot.

@BNOnews: BREAKING: Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls for Dutch EU referendum after Brexit

Not going to happen I'm afraid, no way the Dutch government is allowing a referendum on this. PM Rutte even said today that there is no wish amongst the Dutch citizens to leave the EU... The basterd!

Word from Brussels is that Britain is going to pay for this mess and that upcoming negotiations will be extreme hard in order to show other members there's no gain in leaving the EU. This stance from all those overpayed bureaucrats should be reason enough to take apart the current EU. I feel sorry for all those British citizens who are going to pay the bill for Brexit but at least they will be free from some "masters" they do not know or didn't vote for. Like some old lady asked: "did so many of us die in the war to be ruled by foreigners in the end?"

I have little hope that the EU will reform but if it's going to happen than it will be due to brexiteers. Thanks for trying!

Fixed it for you

I'm OK with that. Back to the time when we stood on our own two feet, made all of our own decisions to run our country via our own Parliamentary system which is admired throughout the free World. Back to when all of the decisions that affected us were made by politicians we could dismiss if we thought they had not served us well, a time when we looked outwards to trade with the rest of the World and before our legal system was subjugated to one outside of our shores.

No improvement in a year is very poor and it's the longer term movement in the £/$ that you need to look at. Until late 2014 it was around $1.60 and has fallen steadily to around $1.40 which is beginning to threaten our status as the world's fifth largest economy. Short-term trends can be overlooked but it's where it will be 18 months from now that is questionable. Much depends on the forthcoming negotiations but any uncertainty is unhelpful.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that no growth in a year is very poor, with interest rates where they are. But otherwise I agree with you. The point is that is nothing like what the doomsayers were predicting.

Things will be different. Different isn't necessarily bad. There will be some winners and some losers.

I'm OK with that. Back to the time when we stood on our own two feet, made all of our own decisions to run our country via our own Parliamentary system which is admired throughout the free World. Back to when all of the decisions that affected us were made by politicians we could dismiss if we thought they had not served us well, a time when we looked outwards to trade with the rest of the World and before our legal system was subjugated to one outside of our shores.

Queen Victoria?

That assumes that humans don't alter their viewpoint as they get older.

Anyone know the real turn-out percentages for each age group?

Could it be that the apathy of the 18-24 year olds has, partially at least, occasioned this result?

....aaand that's the one I've been waiting for this morning.

Jexit.

Just reported that a couple of Labour MPs have raised a motion of no confidence in the bearded cretin.

Out. out. out.

Queen Victoria?

Pre-Maastricht would be fine for me.

Not going to happen I'm afraid, no way the Dutch government is allowing a referendum on this. PM Rutte even said today that there is no wish amongst the Dutch citizens to leave the EU... The basterd!

 

Word from Brussels is that Britain is going to pay for this mess and that upcoming negotiations will be extreme hard in order to show other members there's no gain in leaving the EU. This stance from all those overpayed bureaucrats should be reason enough to take apart the current EU. I feel sorry for all those British citizens who are going to pay the bill for Brexit but at least they will be free from some "masters" they do not know or didn't vote for. Like some old lady asked: "did so many of us die in the war to be ruled by foreigners in the end?"

 

I have little hope that the EU will reform but if it's going to happen than it will be due to brexiteers. Thanks for trying!

No change there then.

All this "reform the EU from the inside nonsense" illustrated by Toby Young in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Ce8mx2nCQ

Was never going to happen and I think the British people realised this after Cameron's renegotiation laughable attempt earlier this year.

They said: If they won't play ball, f*ck 'em.

Anyone know the real turn-out percentages for each age group?

Could it be that the apathy of the 18-24 year olds has, partially at least, occasioned this result?

This is what I was wondering.