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James Ward-Prowse for England? ...say that again ...


david in sweden

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Can someone please report this Skate *&!* for trolling. ^^^^^ Mods, why do you allow this idiot to post, he is clearly not a Saints supporter, get rid of him.

No need to report him. The mods are very adept at spotting the obvious trolls/WUMs and dealing with them swiftly and decisively...

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  • 3 weeks later...
It is strange that the three most heavily criticised Saints players on this forum JWP, Redmond and FF are chosen in the England squad. What does this say about England selectors--or about our judgement of our own?

 

There is a massive difference between those who play and work in the game and those who think that because they watch the game they somehow know better than the professionals. You only have to go back to look at the grief that Morgan got when he started with us or to see the way that Mane was written off after a few games. JWP has always had potential and is clearly valued by the club and by England. Good to see Redmond shut his critics up too.

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There is a massive difference between those who play and work in the game and those who think that because they watch the game they somehow know better than the professionals. You only have to go back to look at the grief that Morgan got when he started with us or to see the way that Mane was written off after a few games. JWP has always had potential and is clearly valued by the club and by England. Good to see Redmond shut his critics up too.

 

Spot on!!!

 

Ware-Prowse is making large strides in his progression, people forget he is just 22!!!! Younger than the "inexperienced" Jack Stephens.

 

At 25-26 I think he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

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Real progress being made this season. Ability was always there, now he's starting to apply it and affect games. He seems stronger and faster, he threatens to win the ball back in dangerous areas. Some way to go before he should really be commanding a place in the England squad but there have definitely been some good signs in the last 3/4 months.

 

In what has been a bit of an underwhelming season, the progress of our young English talent (JWP and Redmond) are a real high point.

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Has played very well for the past month or so, has he finally found his position?

 

IMO was partly at fault for their goal (bottled a tackle in the middle of the park which let them counter) and needs to add more goals / composure to his game (pretty poor miss in the second half)

 

Still not convinced his is quick or strong enough to make it to the very top however time will tell.

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I still find him quite frustrating at times. He takes a long time to make decisions when he receives the ball. One of his strengths is that he is rarely sloppy in his passing, so doesn't lose possession in defensive areas giving the opposition chance to break. However, on the flip side when we are on a break ourselves, play is often held up when it goes to him. One example of this yesterday came just before Davis had his super 20 yard run into the box. We had a few players up but JWP slowed it all down and Palace got back to defend. Yes, you could argue that he then passed to Davis who went on a run and nearly scored, but JWP should have been making that sort of run in the first place, before the defence had had chance to regroup. Also, for someone who can strike a dead ball so well - though I wish the commentators wouldn't say it every time he takes a set piece, it's like buzzword bingo - he needs to be better at crossing from open play. At one point near the end the commentators said "Ward-Prowse, puts one in low this time", well actually, he just scuffed the cross.

 

He has definitely improved, and there is reason to think he can continue to improve, but just because he scored a goal doesn't mean he necessarily put in a motm display. One reason I am hopeful under Puel though is that I have noticed him improving specfically in certain areas, much like (though not to the same extent as) Redmond. I wondered if Redmond was ever going to make it due to his one dimensional, predictable approach to the game, but Puel has clearly identified and improved those areas.

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He has been superb since about November. Has really won me over and has benefited from having a consistent run in the side.

 

I'm guessing Pete Campbell, Andy Durman, Faz, Gingletiss might be the same person, so effusive are they about Prowsey. Man of the Match said Gingletiss...ay, what....did you see the performances of Tadic, Redmond and Romeu? Future England Captain says Faz? The lad has improved this season, that's for sure. Last night he took his goal well; played a couple of lovely passes and was neat and tidy. I'm still not sure about the inside-right position being the right spot for him; nor the automatic selection he is enjoying at the moment, but hey ho, we'll see.

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I'm guessing Pete Campbell, Andy Durman, Faz, Gingletiss might be the same person, so effusive are they about Prowsey. Man of the Match said Gingletiss...ay, what....did you see the performances of Tadic, Redmond and Romeu? Future England Captain says Faz? The lad has improved this season, that's for sure. Last night he took his goal well; played a couple of lovely passes and was neat and tidy. I'm still not sure about the inside-right position being the right spot for him; nor the automatic selection he is enjoying at the moment, but hey ho, we'll see.

 

I will admit to being effusive in my support of the lad, but not to having multiple posting personalities!

 

I'm sometimes a little too effusive as I feel the need to offset some of the blatant footballing idiocy - e.g. He should go on loan to a Championship team.

 

I'm deadly serious about the FEC tag though.

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I will admit to being effusive in my support of the lad, but not to having multiple posting personalities!

 

I'm sometimes a little too effusive as I feel the need to offset some of the blatant footballing idiocy - e.g. He should go on loan to a Championship team.

 

I'm deadly serious about the FEC tag though.

 

Realistically, if he didn't play for us, would you want us to buy him? I very much doubt it.

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I still find him quite frustrating at times. He takes a long time to make decisions when he receives the ball. One of his strengths is that he is rarely sloppy in his passing, so doesn't lose possession in defensive areas giving the opposition chance to break. However, on the flip side when we are on a break ourselves, play is often held up when it goes to him. One example of this yesterday came just before Davis had his super 20 yard run into the box. We had a few players up but JWP slowed it all down and Palace got back to defend. Yes, you could argue that he then passed to Davis who went on a run and nearly scored, but JWP should have been making that sort of run in the first place, before the defence had had chance to regroup. Also, for someone who can strike a dead ball so well - though I wish the commentators wouldn't say it every time he takes a set piece, it's like buzzword bingo - he needs to be better at crossing from open play. At one point near the end the commentators said "Ward-Prowse, puts one in low this time", well actually, he just scuffed the cross.

 

He has definitely improved, and there is reason to think he can continue to improve, but just because he scored a goal doesn't mean he necessarily put in a motm display. One reason I am hopeful under Puel though is that I have noticed him improving specfically in certain areas, much like (though not to the same extent as) Redmond. I wondered if Redmond was ever going to make it due to his one dimensional, predictable approach to the game, but Puel has clearly identified and improved those areas.

 

A good post this.

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I'm guessing Pete Campbell, Andy Durman, Faz, Gingletiss might be the same person, so effusive are they about Prowsey. Man of the Match said Gingletiss...ay, what....did you see the performances of Tadic, Redmond and Romeu? Future England Captain says Faz? The lad has improved this season, that's for sure. Last night he took his goal well; played a couple of lovely passes and was neat and tidy. I'm still not sure about the inside-right position being the right spot for him; nor the automatic selection he is enjoying at the moment, but hey ho, we'll see.

 

I could respond by saying how stupid your post is......Oh go on then, I will! what a stupid post. You clearly have an agenda against him, so much so, that most of your postings are about him. Redmond maybe shaded mom , but JWP had to there or thereabouts. For your information, I'm in Carramar, and I would guess, that I have a few years on you, as you come across at a bit infantile. But hey ho! the trolls keep saying it's a forum, so I guess all opinions count, but yours is no more valued than mine, and I would suggest, that mine will be more right over the next few years, than yours will be.

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I could respond by saying how stupid your post is......Oh go on then, I will! what a stupid post. You clearly have an agenda against him, so much so, that most of your postings are about him. Redmond maybe shaded mom , but JWP had to there or thereabouts. For your information, I'm in Carramar, and I would guess, that I have a few years on you, as you come across at a bit infantile. But hey ho! the trolls keep saying it's a forum, so I guess all opinions count, but yours is no more valued than mine, and I would suggest, that mine will be more right over the next few years, than yours will be.

 

Gingletiss - if I'm understanding your description of being in "Carramar" - I take it you are living in a residential care facility. If I've got that right, I'm sorry to hear it; can't be much fun losing some of your independence and I hope your health is allowing you to see the Saints play on the TV regularly. You were saying in your post that you watched the Crystal Palace game which by my calculations would have been around 3am Perth time.

 

Look we have different views about JWP's abilities, but I don't think anything I've said that qualifies me as a troll or even makes my post stupid. I gladly concede he has improved this season and is benefiting from a consistent run in the side. I still see several limitations in his game as an attacking inside-right - he doesn't really run at the opposition; doesn't show an ability to beat a man with pace or trickery and quite often slows the game down when he's in an attacking space. He has a great work rate and runs around the pitch willingly but I don't see an effective defensive side of his game at this stage either. But, he is getting his opportunity, is improving and he plays for a great Club - long may it continue.

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Always been impressed with him, obviously had a lot of talent and crucially I think he has work attitude to go with it. Arguably Shaw is more talented but seems to be throwing it away, for that reason I think JWP will have a better career.

 

Never really got the criticism many people give him on here, seems like unless you are super fast or super strong people get written off. I mean Wanyama is like 3 years older than him with much more experience, but his passing and technical ability is so much worse.

 

He's a young player who has had to establish himself and improve at the top level, in one of the most difficult positions to play that most players don't master until their late 20s at least. he's clearly shown a lot of improvement this year, credit has to go to Puel in part for that, but also the guy has clearly worked hard off the pitch to improve and he's benefited from game time as well. Can only see him improving and glad he is starting to add goals to his game.

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I still see several limitations in his game as an attacking inside-right.

 

I don't disagree, but this is not where he will make his mark. He is playing there because he can't be left out, and he doesn't yet have the physicality for central midfield, which is where he will be when he is running games for us and, yes, England. Two years from now.

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I don't disagree, but this is not where he will make his mark. He is playing there because he can't be left out, and he doesn't yet have the physicality for central midfield, which is where he will be when he is running games for Liverpool/Chelsea/Man Utd and, yes, England. Two years from now.

 

Cynical edit. If he gets to that level, he will have moved on I fear.

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The most notable thing about him is that he is a yard or two quicker than he used to be. He used to be ponderously slow, and since he did not show too much technical trickery he was often completely ineffective. He is now noticeably quicker, and able to show a bit of trickery and hence he is getting into positions where he can influence the game. He is also able to commit himself more and get into scoring positions where before he was chasing hard to catch up. Think much of his improvement stems from this apparent increased mobility. This and the fact that he is playing further forward, his defensive abilities are still rather ineffective. Well done to the guy (and probably our coaching staff) for putting the work in to improve.

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Imo the main part he's improved on is his aggression (man'd up if you like) he's always been technically good but always seemed to bounce off players without getting the ball , Now even if he doesn't win the ball it usually prevents the opposition player doing something with it !

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The most notable thing about him is that he is a yard or two quicker than he used to be. He used to be ponderously slow, and since he did not show too much technical trickery he was often completely ineffective. He is now noticeably quicker, and able to show a bit of trickery and hence he is getting into positions where he can influence the game. He is also able to commit himself more and get into scoring positions where before he was chasing hard to catch up. Think much of his improvement stems from this apparent increased mobility. This and the fact that he is playing further forward, his defensive abilities are still rather ineffective. Well done to the guy (and probably our coaching staff) for putting the work in to improve.

 

He did a trick a couple of times last night. In the first half I may have exclaimed with my outside voice "JWP did a trick?" much to the amusement and amazement of the people around me in the Chapel (amazed at the trick)...

 

He's a good player, getting massively bigged up as it's part of the media narrative about our academy I suspect but he's getting better and contributes more than he used to. Cracking goal as well...

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Austsaint it's a procession not a sprint at Southampton Alfie Jones, JWP, Stephens, McQueen, McCarthy, Sim, Hesketh....

 

Redmond, Cedric.

 

We make the finished article. We give them the safe environment to develop into top players.

 

The Southampton Way

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From what I've read JWP is an intelligent guy. Son of a barrister, albeit a Skate, I believe he was clever enough for a top Uni place. This isn't the norm with footballers and may explain why it has taken him a little longer to get where he is. Very good player now and will only get better.

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I don't disagree, but this is not where he will make his mark. He is playing there because he can't be left out, and he doesn't yet have the physicality for central midfield, which is where he will be when he is running games for us and, yes, England. Two years from now.

 

Your first line is an interesting observation. If he continues to improve then perhaps the spot Davis is playing now might become JWPs - that's probably the position he needs to try and cement. That would free up the inside-right place for someone like Sims or even Boufal if Tadic is still with us and still commanding the 10 position. One of the not-so-good things about JWP in the right attacking role is the pressure it puts on Cedric to run the flank, but also to get back and cover defensively. On the left, Redmond and Bertrand have the pace and run to do both.

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He's done better lately, but let's not get too carried away. He's still incredibly weak in the tackle ( the goal yesterday he was weak in a tackle as the move was starting), and he's still one paced. He's looking better, but that's only because he was pretty average before. I really don't get the praise, he's not a patch on Davo or OR & had PEH followed up on his early promise may not even have featured that much lately. He's clearly not a right sided player and if he's going to have a decent career needs to get into the centre. Personally, I think he'll have a similar career to Andrew Surman. Sat will be a good test, with no OR or Davo and playing away at a tough physical side he needs to step up to the plate. He needs to start taking a few games by the scruff of the neck or changing them ( like Davo did at Boscombe). Lately he seems to play well when we play well, but is average when we don't . Average players are like that, internationals & particularly FEC's aren't , they set the tone & the tempo they run games. I've seen zero evidence he'll ever be capable of that.

 

 

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He's done better lately, but let's not get too carried away. He's still incredibly weak in the tackle ( the goal yesterday he was weak in a tackle as the move was starting), and he's still one paced. He's looking better, but that's only because he was pretty average before. I really don't get the praise, he's not a patch on Davo or OR & had PEH followed up on his early promise may not even have featured that much lately. He's clearly not a right sided player and if he's going to have a decent career needs to get into the centre. Personally, I think he'll have a similar career to Andrew Surman. Sat will be a good test, with no OR or Davo and playing away at a tough physical side he needs to step up to the plate. He needs to start taking a few games by the scruff of the neck or changing them ( like Davo did at Boscombe). Lately he seems to play well when we play well, but is average when we don't . Average players are like that, internationals & particularly FEC's aren't , they set the tone & the tempo they run games. I've seen zero evidence he'll ever be capable of that.

 

 

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I agree he isn't the finished article. Where you see weakness, I see potential for improvement from a 22 yo who has shown the ability to learn and improve.

 

Comparing him to 31yo Davis, who may occasionally take a game by the scruff of the neck, isn't terribly valid.

 

As I say, give him 2 years - when he will still only be 24, and 3/4 years from his peak.

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He's done better lately, but let's not get too carried away. He's still incredibly weak in the tackle ( the goal yesterday he was weak in a tackle as the move was starting), and he's still one paced. He's looking better, but that's only because he was pretty average before. I really don't get the praise, he's not a patch on Davo or OR & had PEH followed up on his early promise may not even have featured that much lately. He's clearly not a right sided player and if he's going to have a decent career needs to get into the centre. Personally, I think he'll have a similar career to Andrew Surman. Sat will be a good test, with no OR or Davo and playing away at a tough physical side he needs to step up to the plate. He needs to start taking a few games by the scruff of the neck or changing them ( like Davo did at Boscombe). Lately he seems to play well when we play well, but is average when we don't . Average players are like that, internationals & particularly FEC's aren't , they set the tone & the tempo they run games. I've seen zero evidence he'll ever be capable of that.

 

 

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You need to open your eyes a bit then mate and as for Surman, how many times did he captain England u21s let alone play for the first team ? If everyone in football can see the promise in him but our fans can't I'll agree with the majority!

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Never underestimate Davo, he's been so important to the team and we play significantly worse when he is not on the pitch.

 

Why not? Last season was Davis's most productive for the club, with 5 goals and 3 assists in 2600 minutes of football. Ward-Prowse has already got 4 goals and 4 assists in only 1300 minutes this season. The idea that we play better when Davis is on the pitch is a myth - he just gives the mouth-breathers someone to cheer when they see him running around.

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He's done better lately, but let's not get too carried away. He's still incredibly weak in the tackle ( the goal yesterday he was weak in a tackle as the move was starting), and he's still one paced. He's looking better, but that's only because he was pretty average before. I really don't get the praise, he's not a patch on Davo or OR & had PEH followed up on his early promise may not even have featured that much lately. He's clearly not a right sided player and if he's going to have a decent career needs to get into the centre. Personally, I think he'll have a similar career to Andrew Surman. Sat will be a good test, with no OR or Davo and playing away at a tough physical side he needs to step up to the plate. He needs to start taking a few games by the scruff of the neck or changing them ( like Davo did at Boscombe). Lately he seems to play well when we play well, but is average when we don't . Average players are like that, internationals & particularly FEC's aren't , they set the tone & the tempo they run games. I've seen zero evidence he'll ever be capable of that.

 

 

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Interesting this - youre saying when saints play well JWP plays well and when saints are average JWP is average. If the correlation is that exact then what youre really saying is that when JWP plays well saints play well and when JWP doesnt perform saints dont perform. Sounds like he has a big influence on us already!

 

Argee that if he is to drift in to teh middle though he needs to appear to dominate more and set more of a tempo - have to feel he has been more involvedwith the tempo recently - hes sped up, his passing has sped up and he has been a little more fwd thinking, he stlil doesnt lose the ball from misplaced passing lotsand these signs could be the start of someone who will really be the tempo of the team.

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Why not? Last season was Davis's most productive for the club, with 5 goals and 3 assists in 2600 minutes of football. Ward-Prowse has already got 4 goals and 4 assists in only 1300 minutes this season. The idea that we play better when Davis is on the pitch is a myth - he just gives the mouth-breathers someone to cheer when they see him running around.

 

I dont think iv`e seen a poster with so little understanding of a players contributuon to a team, either that or he/she just

has a obssesive dislike for a the player and refuses to see the actual events as they happen and calls others mouth breathers.. :lol:

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I dont think iv`e seen a poster with so little understanding of a players contributuon to a team, either that or he/she just

has a obssesive dislike for a the player and refuses to see the actual events as they happen and calls others mouth breathers.. :lol:

 

The odd thing is, that Davis aside, most of Verlaine's posts are well constructed! Surely anyone who can't see the value of Davo to Saints is missing something quite fundamental.

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You need to open your eyes a bit then mate and as for Surman, how many times did he captain England u21s let alone play for the first team ? If everyone in football can see the promise in him but our fans can't I'll agree with the majority!

 

If everyone in football can see his promise, what's he still doing here? Why have there been no serious offers for him. I'd be amazed if he turned out anything other than an average premier league player, bit like Andrew Surmans ended up. People are getting carried away because he hasn't looked out of place in the side lately, it's only the averageness of his last 2 years that make these last 2 months seem better. He's turned a corner, but he's still not anywhere near as good as somebthink

 

 

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Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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If everyone in football can see his promise, what's he still doing here? Why have there been no serious offers for him. I'd be amazed if he turned out anything other than an average premier league player, bit like Andrew Surmans ended up. People are getting carried away because he hasn't looked out of place in the side lately, it's only the averageness of his last 2 years that make these last 2 months seem better. He's turned a corner, but he's still not anywhere near as good as somebthink

 

 

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Some might think? So that would include the England manager and plenty of TV pundits.

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If everyone in football can see his promise, what's he still doing here? Why have there been no serious offers for him. I'd be amazed if he turned out anything other than an average premier league player, bit like Andrew Surmans ended up. People are getting carried away because he hasn't looked out of place in the side lately, it's only the averageness of his last 2 years that make these last 2 months seem better. He's turned a corner, but he's still not anywhere near as good as somebthink

 

Define exactly what you mean by "average Premier League player"? That is a very wishy washy phrase.

 

I think you are significantly underrating his ability and some comments in this thread are reminiscent of the Wotton/Schneiderlin thread.

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The odd thing is, that Davis aside, most of Verlaine's posts are well constructed! Surely anyone who can't see the value of Davo to Saints is missing something quite fundamental.

 

Uh huh, it's almost as if this opinion is also just the result of my rational assessment of the player, rather than having any more sinister motive (ffs some moron still insists years later that I must be related to Jack Cork). There are quite a few players in our squad I don't rate especially highly, but mostly there's a consensus about those, so what would be the point in talking about them?

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If everyone in football can see his promise, what's he still doing here? Why have there been no serious offers for him. I'd be amazed if he turned out anything other than an average premier league player, bit like Andrew Surmans ended up. People are getting carried away because he hasn't looked out of place in the side lately, it's only the averageness of his last 2 years that make these last 2 months seem better. He's turned a corner, but he's still not anywhere near as good as somebthink

 

 

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Because he does not wish to leave, he did state this when he signed his last contract when Man city was intrested in signing him. this lad loves the club and could be the one from the youth team to stay till he retires, why do you think we hear no talk regarding his future? cause he dont want to leave, he is not intrested in leaving Saints, if he was, he would have gone city when he had the chance, he isnt a moron, lad has got brains.

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Because he does not wish to leave, he did state this when he signed his last contract when Man city was intrested in signing him. this lad loves the club and could be the one from the youth team to stay till he retires, why do you think we hear no talk regarding his future? cause he dont want to leave, he is not intrested in leaving Saints, if he was, he would have gone city when he had the chance, he isnt a moron, lad has got brains.

Well thankfully he's not yet got his head in Liverpool, like Lallana's was the moment he started playing for England.

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