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Thread: Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post

    Alistair Horne's book is a good place to start.
    Indeed it is.

    It surely takes no great leap of imagination to see that the relationship formed between a immigrant coming from a former colony, and someone arriving who has no connection at all between their old home and new will be subtly different to some degree. There may well be other cultural differences between African and Middle Eastern cultures too.

    Having said that, those responsible for the earlier 'Charlie Hebdo' massacre were indeed second generation French citizens of N African descent. Therefore, those claiming that our enemy now comes from 'within' do have a reasonable point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Would you say that we are culturally identical to Botswana? With the same views and motives? We are both classed as Anglican..
    How is that relevant to anything discussed in this thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Now you actually know about it, perhaps you can read up. Here's a start:

    http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...rance-laurence
    I don't have to read have a big read up every time you can't explain the relevance of something thankfully.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    I don't have to read have a big read up every time you can't explain the relevance of something thankfully.
    The fact there might just be some weeny little differences between British Muslims originating primarily from the Indian subcontinent and French Muslims originating primarily from North Africa is pretty freaking obvious really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    The fact there might just be some weeny little differences between British Muslims originating primarily from the Indian subcontinent and French Muslims originating primarily from North Africa is pretty freaking obvious really.
    Yes, but what relevance does that have to this thread?

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    any zany conspiracy theories out there yet?

  7. #57

    Default Paris Massacre

    Recent details about how many attacks thwarted in this country and 7/7 shows we are just as much a target as France. France does have prison population estimated at 70% Muslim - no such rehab or education done in there so no surprise radicalising ideologies take root.

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    Default Paris Massacre

    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    How is that relevant to anything discussed in this thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    Yes, but what relevance does that have to this thread?
    You indicated that country of origin was irrelevant, and that the views of a North African Muslim would be the same as any other. Your argument is based on the assumption that religion is the only factor involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Recent details about how many attacks thwarted in this country and 7/7 shows we are just as much a target as France. France does have prison population estimated at 70% Muslim - no such rehab or education done in there so no surprise radicalising ideologies take root.
    Just heard on Sky News that many Muslims in France feel excluded from society and that there are not enough jobs for them etc.
    the right in France (apparently) suggest the muslim community feel excluded because they have come to their country over the years in large numbers, saturated the jobs markets - particularly the low skilled - and want france to change to suit them rather than they fit into the french way of life..

    who knows just a few thoughts from some bloke on telly

  10. #60

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    Syrian passport found on body of one of the #ParisAttacks perpetrators at Stade de France, police say https://t.co/e6B9jWLc1G

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Syrian passport found on body of one of the #ParisAttacks perpetrators at Stade de France, police say https://t.co/e6B9jWLc1G
    ISIS dill tell us that this would happen

    meanwhile, the SNP are flying people direct from Syria straight to Glasgow, next week
    we really live in weird times

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Just heard on Sky News that many Muslims in France feel excluded from society and that there are not enough jobs for them etc.
    the right in France (apparently) suggest the muslim community feel excluded because they have come to their country over the years in large numbers, saturated the jobs markets - particularly the low skilled - and want france to change to suit them rather than they fit into the french way of life..

    who knows just a few thoughts from some bloke on telly
    Sounds about right. You can't generalise though, too many immigrants and too much unemployment caused by the same thing. Over generous state security benefit. Five kids gets you more than a low paid job which can't exist anyway because of the savage taxation of employment to pay for benefits. Catch 22 situation. The loony left at it's finest.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    Yes, but what relevance does that have to this thread?
    You tell me, you started it.
    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    The heavy North African contingent gives the Muslim population in France a very different feel than the one in the UK. Talk of Muslims, in the abstract, probably obscures rather than illuminates things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    What fundamental difference does it make?

  14. #64

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    The big question IMO - Is it now time for ground forces to go into Syria and Iraq?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    The big question IMO - Is it now time for ground forces to go into Syria and Iraq?

    Won't be the French, they're already overstretched in Mali and the C.A.R. Let the Russians and Iranians do it this time...oh wait aren't they already.........

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    Latest news reports have said the Germans have arrested a man with close links to those involved in the attacks. They are suggesting those involved entered France via German and Belgium.

    Elsewhere many are phoning in to say, contrary to government statements, many border crossings aren't being manned and one can enter or leave France with no border checks,

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    The big question IMO - Is it now time for ground forces to go into Syria and Iraq?
    IMO, Europe should immediately cease the 'free movement' policy across the board.
    stop the march of migrants heading west and tell them to stay where they are and they have no hope of getting over here.

    stop picking people up from the med and turn them away from southern europe.

    and finally, step up the effort against these people. Lets be honest, the US and Russia could flatten half the world on their own but we can play our part.
    obviously, people like cumberbach and other rich lefty types should just shut the **** up. The UK is a pretty fair place but the hell should we just import hundreds of thousands from that region?

    sadly, the european response will be pathetic and we will continue to skirt around the edges on Syria and the wider region. something tragic will happen again within 12 months
    Last edited by Batman; 14-11-2015 at 11:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ART View Post
    Latest news reports have said the Germans have arrested a man with close links to those involved in the attacks. They are suggesting those involved entered France via German and Belgium.

    Elsewhere many are phoning in to say, contrary to government statements, many border crossings aren't being manned and one can enter or leave France with no border checks,

    Last night the lefty idiot said that the borders would be closed, not controlled, closed. This morning, nope that's not right but there will be controls at all borders. Tomorrow it will be the usual free for all and Marine will ride to victory in half of the regions next month...sad, sad state of affairs.
    My girl came back from Spain this morning, just drove up the E15- A9 as per usual, no control, nothing. Then again perhaps they're pretty sure that blonde girls driving Minis aren't terrorists. Clueless.
    Last edited by Window Cleaner; 14-11-2015 at 11:46 AM.

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Window Cleaner View Post
    Last night the lefty idiot said that the borders would be closed, not controlled, closed. This morning, nope that's not right but there will be controls at all borders. Tomorrow it will be the usual free for all and Marine will ride to victory in half of the regions next month...sad, sad state of affairs.
    My girl came back from Spain this morning, just drove up the E15- A9 as per usual, no control, nothing. Then again perhaps they're pretty sure that blonde girls driving Minis aren't terrorists. Clueless.
    what will happen if they win half of the regions in france?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    It's OK. Some have told us all we need to do is talk to them and it will all be fine.
    Not for the fist time you have completely missed the point, I said that the only way this conflict will finally end will result in people sitting around a table.
    To make such a cheap point in the aftermath of what happened last night does you no credit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Not for the fist time you have completely missed the point, I said that the only way this conflict will finally end will result in people sitting around a table.
    To make such a cheap point in the aftermath of what happened last night does you no credit.
    And you would be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    what will happen if they win half of the regions in france?
    Fark all, the indigenous lefties will prevent them from doing anything whatsoever. The lefties control everything except the police and the armed forces, Mitterandian policies made sure of that. There will be some sort of national priorities for a couple of weeks in anything the FN control as there was in the towns they won last time round, then will come the legal blocking of everything and anything as the justice is majoritarily far far left. France is ungovernable because of the leftist apparatus put into place by Mitterand and the Communists in the 80s;

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Not for the fist time you have completely missed the point, I said that the only way this conflict will finally end will result in people sitting around a table.
    To make such a cheap point in the aftermath of what happened last night does you no credit.
    To negotiate what exactly? This is not Ireland or the Basque region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Just proves that simply talking to these people is an idiotic plan. They don't negotiate.
    So what do we do. Kill all Muslims? Good plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So what do we do. Kill all Muslims? Good plan.
    yeah, it's either do nothing or kill all muslims

    NOTHING in between

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Mash View Post
    Yes, but what relevance does that have to this thread?
    Its relevant because France’s experience with its former colonies -Algeria in particular- is far more traumatic than anything the UK went through in its process of decolonisation, thank f**k.

    That trauma –and that’s what it is, if you anything about France- has festered for years, creating mutual animosity and significant barriers to integration today.

    Nearly 1.5m Algerian Muslims died in the conflict, including the 1961 Paris massacre on French soil; and when the war ended, France effectively turned its back on Algerian-Muslim loyalists – those who escaped reprisals in Algeria -forced swallowing of French military medals, followed by mass graves was the order of the day- they were flat-out denied rights in France -many were initially interned; and then moved into deprived housing estates that have made Bradford look like a multicultural nirvana. Various French governments, labouring under their own Republican conceits and amour propre, have been in a schizophrenic relationship with French Algerians ever since.

    Never mind, that France’s messy exit from Algeria, if not ongoing meddling left a decades-long vacuum that has been variously filled by nationalists and fundamentalists when the country hasn’t been in civil war.

    So yeh it is all relevant but only here, it seems, are you challenged because of you’ve read too much –and the other side cant be a***d to.
    Last edited by shurlock; 14-11-2015 at 12:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So what do we do. Kill all Muslims? Good plan.
    You are getting confused between Muslims in general and Radical Islamic Integrists I think.

  28. #78

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    Pretty despicable that SadOldGit equates yesterday's events with "all Muslims". Sickening.

  29. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    To negotiate what exactly? This is not Ireland or the Basque region.
    Simplistically we have to find a way of living together and that will only happen by speaking to each other. The only alternative is to carry on killing each other in perpetuity. Hypo is convinced that the only way to deal with the situation is to kill all Extreme Muslims on the basis that they will never give up. There were people in Japan ion WW2 who vowed to fight to the death as also in the Korean War, Vietnamese War etc but eventually these conflicts do end and that involves both sides talking to each other. The other alternative is genocide.

    We make a big fuss about killing Jihadi John and they go a step further and butcher more innocent civilians. What have we gained? The killing just goes spiralling on and on. We share this planet and we have to find a way to co-exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    yeah, it's either do nothing or kill all muslims

    NOTHING in between
    Perhaps you would like to start with those in the picture you posted?

  31. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Simplistically we have to find a way of living together and that will only happen by speaking to each other. The only alternative is to carry on killing each other in perpetuity. Hypo is convinced that the only way to deal with the situation is to kill all Extreme Muslims on the basis that they will never give up. There were people in Japan ion WW2 who vowed to fight to the death as also in the Korean War, Vietnamese War etc but eventually these conflicts do end and that involves both sides talking to each other. The other alternative is genocide.

    We make a big fuss about killing Jihadi John and they go a step further and butcher more innocent civilians. What have we gained? The killing just goes spiralling on and on. We share this planet and we have to find a way to co-exist.
    How is this conversation going to go exactly. If you were the negotiator, what do you offer them?

  32. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Window Cleaner View Post
    You are getting confused between Muslims in general and Radical Islamic Integrists I think.
    I was being facetious.

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Simplistically we have to find a way of living together and that will only happen by speaking to each other. The only alternative is to carry on killing each other in perpetuity. Hypo is convinced that the only way to deal with the situation is to kill all Extreme Muslims on the basis that they will never give up. There were people in Japan ion WW2 who vowed to fight to the death as also in the Korean War, Vietnamese War etc but eventually these conflicts do end and that involves both sides talking to each other. The other alternative is genocide.

    We make a big fuss about killing Jihadi John and they go a step further and butcher more innocent civilians. What have we gained? The killing just goes spiralling on and on. We share this planet and we have to find a way to co-exist.
    I'll ask again. To negotiate what exactly?

  34. #84

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    ...

  35. #85

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    This is pretty grim from a Le Monde reporter, and looking at the lady hanging onto the building it's amazing what the body can achieve in self preservation mode.
    Warning: This is un edited with scenes none of us would ever like to see.
    http://www.lemonde.fr/attaques-a-par...5_4809495.html

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    How is this conversation going to go exactly. If you were the negotiator, what do you offer them?
    How do all peace talks start? You set up a peace process and you follow it through. It isn't going to happen over night but if all you do is kill all you are going to get is death.

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    I'll ask again. To negotiate what exactly?
    What do you think? Do you think this situation is sustainable? Extreme Muslims will know that, no matter what they might say, they are not going to bring the West to its knees and at some point we have to find a way to co-exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    What do you think? Do you think this situation is sustainable? Extreme Muslims will know that, no matter what they might say, they are not going to bring the West to its knees and at some point we have to find a way to co-exist.
    You can't co-exist with extreme fundamentalists wherever they sporn from.

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    How do all peace talks start? You set up a peace process and you follow it through. It isn't going to happen over night but if all you do is kill all you are going to get is death.
    That's like going to a Hollywood film producer and saying, "I've got this great title for a movie, all I need is a story line and a script to go with it."

    What is your peace process? That's just a phrase, a political buzzword to reassure the masses.

    What specific actions would you take to bring about peace in the middle East? What would you offer ISIS in exchange for a ceasefire on their behalf? What is it that they want, which you are prepared to give them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    yeah, it's either do nothing or kill all muslims

    NOTHING in between
    Can I please nominate this post to the saintsweb award for " most idiotic, narrow minded fuctard" of the year comment.

  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    How do all peace talks start? You set up a peace process and you follow it through.
    Oh, right. Set up a peace process and follow it through. Weird really that no one on the planet had thought of that until now. Thank God/Mohammad you're here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bristolsaint29 View Post
    Can I please nominate this post to the saintsweb award for " most idiotic, narrow minded fuctard" of the year comment.
    I think his post linking this all to refugees and the EU trumps that TBH.

  43. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by bristolsaint29 View Post
    Can I please nominate this post to the saintsweb award for " most idiotic, narrow minded fuctard" of the year comment.
    I think you might want to go back and read the comments before Batman's - then you will see the context in which his comment was written.
    He was sarcastically responding to someone else's ridiculous comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bristolsaint29 View Post
    Can I please nominate this post to the saintsweb award for " most idiotic, narrow minded fuctard" of the year comment.
    You realise it was sarcasm?

  45. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    What do you think? Do you think this situation is sustainable? Extreme Muslims will know that, no matter what they might say, they are not going to bring the West to its knees and at some point we have to find a way to co-exist.
    They believe that we are all infidels and that life on earth is only temporary until they reach paradise. I am afraid there is no room for compromise.

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Its relevant because France’s experience with its former colonies -Algeria in particular- is far more traumatic than anything the UK went through in its process of decolonisation, thank f**k.

    That trauma –and that’s what it is, if you anything about France- has festered for years, creating mutual animosity and significant barriers to integration today.

    Nearly 1.5m Algerian Muslims died in the conflict, including the 1961 Paris massacre on French soil; and when the war ended, France effectively turned its back on Algerian-Muslim loyalists – those who escaped reprisals in Algeria -forced swallowing of French military medals, followed by mass graves was the order of the day- they were flat-out denied rights in France -many were initially interned; and then moved into deprived housing estates that have made Bradford look like a multicultural nirvana. Various French governments, labouring under their own Republican conceits and amour propre, have been in a schizophrenic relationship with French Algerians ever since.

    Never mind, that France’s messy exit from Algeria, if not ongoing meddling left a decades-long vacuum that has been variously filled by nationalists and fundamentalists when the country hasn’t been in civil war.

    So yeh it is all relevant but only here, it seems, are you challenged because of you’ve read too much –and the other side cant be a***d to.
    Doesn't sound like the history of a country applying too many liberal and looney left policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    How do all peace talks start? You set up a peace process and you follow it through. It isn't going to happen over night but if all you do is kill all you are going to get is death.
    Well you're right in that most wars either end in defeat for one side, or around a negotiating table. That latter situation is afterall what happened in Ulster's 'long war' - but only of course after decades of bloody slaughter. Frankly, we are nowhere near sitting down and talking to ISIL extremists at this time, primarily because they don't accept that victory for their cause is impossible. This war is as yet a young one I'm sorry to say.

    Now I can see that you require no lectures from me on this (obvious) fact of historical life SOG. The usual suspects on here however seem more interested in tiresome point scoring, rather than engaging in a proper debate.

    Which is in pretty bad taste today of all days I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    They believe that we are all infidels and that life on earth is only temporary until they reach paradise. I am afraid there is no room for compromise.
    Supposedly we are meant to disregard what they say because eventually they will negotiate? What evidence does anyone have of this? The fact is that they won't.

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC1906 View Post
    I think you might want to go back and read the comments before Batman's - then you will see the context in which his comment was written.
    He was sarcastically responding to someone else's ridiculous comment.
    Very hard to tell with batman

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    I love that chapel end Charlie's response about how bad taste point scoring is is in itself a form of point scoring. Be honest, your post would not exist had the conversation about homosexual footballers never happened. You're just as pompous and prepared to point score as everyone else on this message board. Maybe a bit more pompous tbh.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 14-11-2015 at 12:55 PM.

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