James Ward-Prowse's list of indisputable, unimprovable weaknesses

Cannot beat a man for pace in a foot race

Cannot win a 50/50 where he's shoulder-to-shoulder with another player as he has no strength

Cannot use his left foot

Cannot burst into the box and arrive late to score goals

Cannot beat a man with any sort of flicks and tricks

Cannot win headers

Cannot shoot from distance

Cannot tackle effectively and consistently enough to shield the back four

Now like I say, these are the 'indisputables' insofar as most people who defend James Ward-Prowse and his inclusion in the team don't really contest any of what I've just said - but say that his vision, range of passing, dead-ball delivery and other qualities offset and overcome all of them.

Really? Really?

Quite a few of those could describe Beckham, especially when he had only just turned 21 like Ward-Prowse.

You appear to want Ward-Prowse to be a different type of player to the one he is. He has a lot of very good attributes for the roles he is used, you've listed attributes needed for a player in a different role which is unfair. I'd also dispute a few of them anyway and they certainly aren't all "unimprovable" for a player with 10+ years left in his career.

It's almost like the Skates planted him fully aware of his failings...

Quite a few of those could describe Beckham, especially when he had only just turned 21 like Ward-Prowse.

Twaddle. Beckham could shoot and score from distance and in the box. He could score free-kicks, he had a decent left foot, could most certainly tackle and win fifty-fifties and actually, had reasonable pace in his youth. Besides which, his range of passing and crosses was on another level to JWP's

You appear to want Ward-Prowse to be a different type of player to the one he is.

Yes! I'd like him to be a good player and not a bad one.

JWP will be a fantastic player.

Exceptional ball delivery.

Has been working extremely hard on becoming more physical and his 4 yellows this season are proof of this.

He will only get better

He certainly has his critics on here but he is highly thought of by previous managers, Koeman, Southgate and Hodgson, there opinions mean more to me, a lot to come from the youngster yet.

He played well yesterday...IMO.

JWP will be a fantastic player.

 

Exceptional ball delivery.

 

Has been working extremely hard on becoming more physical and his 4 yellows this season are proof of this.

 

He will only get better

I'm sorry but sounds like you are in cloud cuckoo land. Not seen anything to suggest any of what you say is or will come true. Poor player and not good enough to be a prem player but obviously hope I'm proved wrong.

He played well yesterday...IMO.

Seriously? I thought he was awful.

Set piece specialist apparently...

Can we try him at right back:D

Like his set pieces - gets great pace and trajectory on the dead ball most of the time. With a moving ball it's a different story, as he rarely seems to make a clean connection whether passing or shooting. Watching him yesterday he almost seemed to want to stop moving before making a pass so he could orient his hips the way he does when lining up a free kick. He's currently got absolutely no acceleration either - no idea about his top speed, but in chases for the ball yesterday he invariably lost by some distance each time.

Like I said, I really do think he has great technique from set pieces, but in open play, he looks like a smart kid who has read lots of books about being a top class footballer, and is trying to do an impression based on what he's read.

But anyway, we should be blooding more youngsters, right?

He has a good interview on him.

I don't think he's *that* bad. He's an intelligent footballer and they're probably the most dangerous ones. 3, 4 or 5 years time, I"m still confident Turkish will be digging threads like this up and making you look silly.

I'm still confident Turkish will be digging threads like this up and making you look silly.

With 0 goals apart from a charitably-given penalty in his 88 appearances for Saints I wouldn't bet on it sunshine

Set piece specialist apparently...

Was it his corner we scored from?

I do agree though that he really has not progressed as much as we have expected. Yesterday he was a passenger for a lot of the game.

JWP will be a fantastic player.

 

Exceptional ball delivery.

 

Has been working extremely hard on becoming more physical and his 4 yellows this season are proof of this.

 

He will only get better

He got a yellow yesterday because he was slow getting to a ball that should have been comfortably his!

Was it his corner we scored from?

 

I do agree though that he really has not progressed as much as we have expected. Yesterday he was a passenger for a lot of the game.

Of course it was. As it was when Mane nodded over from 4 yards out. As it was when Fonte had an effort blocked on the line. His corners, and crossing is general, are generally of a very good standard.

He has a lot of very good attributes for the roles he is used

Perhaps you could enlighten the Forum as to what these attributes are?

Cannot beat a man for pace in a foot race

Cannot win a 50/50 where he's shoulder-to-shoulder with another player as he has no strength

Cannot use his left foot

Cannot burst into the box and arrive late to score goals

Cannot beat a man with any sort of flicks and tricks

Cannot win headers

Cannot shoot from distance

Cannot tackle effectively and consistently enough to shield the back four

 

Now like I say, these are the 'indisputables' insofar as most people who defend James Ward-Prowse and his inclusion in the team don't really contest any of what I've just said - but say that his vision, range of passing, dead-ball delivery and other qualities offset and overcome all of them.

 

Really? Really?

So of your list, precisely one (1) is unimprovable. Lack of pace. That's alright then.

Cannot beat a man for pace in a foot race

Cannot win a 50/50 where he's shoulder-to-shoulder with another player as he has no strength

Cannot use his left foot

Cannot burst into the box and arrive late to score goals

Cannot beat a man with any sort of flicks and tricks

Cannot win headers

Cannot shoot from distance

Cannot tackle effectively and consistently enough to shield the back four

 

Now like I say, these are the 'indisputables' insofar as most people who defend James Ward-Prowse and his inclusion in the team don't really contest any of what I've just said - but say that his vision, range of passing, dead-ball delivery and other qualities offset and overcome all of them.

 

Really? Really?

Lol, and yet successive saints managers continue to play him and he has captained england at every level he's played.

Your Anti JWP agenda not stacking up with experienced football minds... a better question would be to ask what those managers know that you do not?

Perhaps you could enlighten the Forum as to what these attributes are?

He's a young player who needs support. That's what the club is all about and you need to understand that.

Maybe it's time to ask the EPL if we can have a roll on, roll off subs like Amercian football.

JWP would be awesome in that role?

Coming on for free kicks and corners before ****ing him off back to the bench

He's a right footed Andrew Surman , may have a premiership career at a yoyo club , but no way he'll ever deliver on the hype . If he plays for England , then we really will be pony . Has not progressed anywhere near enough to justify any hope he'll be the next big thing.

Good at bouncing the ball prior to a free kick or corner , shame he's not 6ft 9 as he maybe better at basket ball .

Now who am I going to back in this dispute: Koeman, Hodgson and Southgate or some guy called Spectical Stan

JWP will be a fantastic player.

 

Exceptional ball delivery.

 

Has been working extremely hard on becoming more physical and his 4 yellows this season are proof of this.

 

He will only get better

Agreed. I also like his positioning and awareness for a young player. He can play in multiple position. He is a very useful player. I don't understand why some players get so much hate when they don't deserve it, while others are never mentioned when they have a poor game. Others just never get enough credit for what they do.

I know he is the captain and and leader of the team, but Fonte has been poor this year and nobody says it. Steven Davis gets too much credit, even when he was one the best last match, people rave about him but he is just ahead of JWP on the development curve. JWP will be much better than Davis in a couple of years. Davis is a player that does everything Okay but doesen't excel at anything.

Mane has been poor too, and it hasen't been noted. Too selfish, dosen't look for the open man enough, and he isn't tracking back at the defense as he did last year. His head seems to be at Man U right now.

In the other hand, Tadic has been one of the best players this year but he rarely he gets the praise he deserves. The last game he was pressuring the opposition more than Mane. Even doing some marking. I think he got RK message of being more involved defensively. Unlike Mane, he always does something productive when the ball is on his feet.

I have only one issue with him and that his is pace - he is always the last to the ball when there's an apparent 50-50 in the offing. I remember Graeme Le Saux is the last days of his career - he had lost his pace, but his football brain made up for it by knowing how to intercept the angles and gain extra ground - it made up for that little bit of extra pace he didn't have the locker. JWP does not have that - either the pace or the brain to know how to gain an advantage. He may be 21, but he's had lots of SFC and England exposure, so you would think he would have picked up some good habits by now. The trouble is it's not technique - if it was he would be fine - it's all about having the natural gift of anticipation to steal a yard for example. On balance I'm afraid he is below the level needed to achieve the clubs' much vaunted ambition.

Over 100 Saints apps and less than 10 games where he has had a large influence or been "really good".

He seems to have to do less than others to gain starts as has been left out numerous times this year only to start the following game without really showing on the pitch that he has earned it.

When does promise and technical ability become wasted talent?

When should he be judged by fans against the same standards the other players are i.e by performances on the pitch now? Another 100 games?

Always "next season will be the making of him..."

Summary: he will have a PL career but won't be as good as he or Saints make out that he is/will be. Pretty much summed by by others leaving and in 4 years nobody really coming in strongly for him which is why he signed another 5 year deal with us. He wouldn't get in the starting midfield of any top 10 PL side.

He's just not a footballer. And that's not a criticism, I like the guy. But I'm not a footballer either, I'm not slagging myself off by saying that, just stating facts.

He's a great talker, perhaps he could find a job in the media. Or to be fair he is a bright guy there are many things he could do.

Football is not one of them.

Looks good in avatars though, the handsome bugger.

So this is what we get to look forward to every time the team goes through a difficult spell - finding scapegoats to belittle and demean.

With regards to the specifics in this thread, would you care to explain how these "indisputable" weaknesses are unimprovable. And what indisputable strengths does he have that prompts Koeman to keep picking him?

What a pathetic thread.

What a bunch of pr8cks

Dreadful post...we have a developing player who is obviously rated by all the managers that he has played for and will only improve with time on the pitch and in the gym and the usual detractors wade in with their 'expert' views.

Get behind the lad like those who attend games do, he is one of ours who will go on to be a great player for us.

Maybe he's at the wrong club playing a style of football that isnt suited to his attributes ?!?!

Not everyone turns out to be a perfect fit and he might flourish along the lines that seem expected of him if he had different players around him playing a different system for a different coaching set up.

I'm not suggesting he moves...just looking at another angle.

In a season when we depended on him making the step up because of the loss of other quality in the team he hasn't quite done it for us. Progression for young players is of course not linear, and whilst exposure to first team football is very important that also doesn't appear to be as important to JWP as it should given his vast experience for his age.

He has a lot of good qualities as a footballer, but at the moment the areas he is lacking are impacting his ability to influence and play well in games.

He will play to the level of the team and no better - conversely when we are struggling he is rarely the one who still puts in a good performance.

He has a long way to go but we should be patient and give him that opportunity - especially as for me there is no better alternative to him right now.

The new Guly?

Cannot beat a man for pace in a foot race

Cannot win a 50/50 where he's shoulder-to-shoulder with another player as he has no strength

Cannot use his left foot

Cannot burst into the box and arrive late to score goals

Cannot beat a man with any sort of flicks and tricks

Cannot win headers

Cannot shoot from distance

Cannot tackle effectively and consistently enough to shield the back four

 

 

But apart from that he's a future England captain right? :rolleyes:

I remember Adam Lallana receiving similar criticism.

The fact is that it takes time to become a Premier League Stalwart.

Experience, hard work, confidence and a bit of patience on our part.

The new Guly?

Couldn't think of a worse analogy.

But apart from that he's a future England captain right? :rolleyes:

I hope not otherwise England wouldnt have improved any.....................really come of it all the pundits i listen to on match day all comment about set piece delivery...............wow news flash thats why they train, he has to be able to be more than on the field just in case we get a set piece?.............england captain nah more better deserving than him.

He is learning his trade. He will grow into an outstanding footballer.

So of your list, precisely one (1) is unimprovable. Lack of pace. That's alright then.

and even that can be improved with the correct gym work he may never be lightning quick but his pace could improve with the correct conditioning.

The challenge is doing the right gym work to improve his strength and athleticism without damaging his other attributes!

and even that can be improved with the correct gym work he may never be lightning quick but his pace could improve with the correct conditioning.

 

The challenge is doing the right gym work to improve his strength and athleticism without damaging his other attributes!

Ok, I'll reword it... the amount of his pace will improve with training will be far less significant (or will require far more specialist training to get the same results) than from training to improve all of the other attributes.

Biggest gripe is that he always seems to be on his heels and arrives to things just too late, whether that be tackles, shots, interceptions.

When you have 0% pace, you need to be on your toes and anticipate things.

He also looks very short on confidence, which isn't surprising given how much 'support' he gets.

Biggest gripe is that he always seems to be on his heels and arrives to things just too late, whether that be tackles, shots, interceptions.

 

When you have 0% pace, you need to be on your toes and anticipate things.

 

He also looks very short on confidence, which isn't surprising given how much 'support' he gets.

He gets loads of support from the Management who always bring him back into the starting XI despite average performances.

He should start repaying that faith!

He gets loads of support from the Management who always bring him back into the starting XI despite average performances.

 

He should start repaying that faith!

Maybe we should sell him in January too? A Long / JWP double deal?

Maybe we should sell him in January too? A Long / JWP double deal?

No chance they will sell him. But Long certainly replaceable with a better player.

Despite thinking he's just about adequate overall, I can still see why people are questioning his appearance in the starting line-up last Saturday. Stuck out like a sore thumb to me in a side which had Clasie on the bench.

I think we're going through some kind of transitional period in which we usually play sides' best teams but don't necessarily put our best team out against them. You've only got to look at Liverpool v Swansea, us and Newcastle to see what their best side is...

No chance they will sell him. But Long certainly replaceable with a better player.

Everyone is replaceable with a better player, we can't afford them - we wouldn't be able to afford probably half of the current team at their existing market value.

Long is a bit of an outlier from our transfer policy of buying cheap and improving players, he obviously came up high on the black box and hit a lot of the intangibles and does a lot of unheralded stuff.