Has Koeman lost it?

Out of the CL and beaten by Bournemouth with several ex players and pundits on his back...............

does that make what he said about RK, wrong?

Yes, bizarre reasoning from SOGGY there...

Not bizarre reasoning is it if LVG being harder on the players is seen as the way to go. Dressing room unrest may suggest he doesn't have the right man management skills so could argue he may need to soften up

So many know it alls here who knew the right players to buy and have superior defensive nous than RK. So simple football eh, just buy good players. No one else is trying that and is easy to know how they turn out.

Bournemouth' style was too naive for the PL a couple of weeks ago. No doubt Ediie Howe will be touted as future England manager now Monk has gone.

We've been built on a solid defence the last few years. I've never seen a top flight defence be good without a) it being a back 4, b) everyone knowing exactly what the strongest back 4 is, and c) it playing most weeks. Koeman likes to dabble with 3 or 5 at the back and it's disruptive.

 

Things were already disrupted by the VVD transfer being so late, so we had to start with Yoshida or the frankly appalling Caulker. From there, we needed VVD and Fonte together whenever possible. Now we've had injuries to Fonte and formation changes. Then all the nonsense about not playing Cedric in certain games. He's not Clyne no, but he's alright and blatantly the best option we have. I can't imagine many Saints fans wouldn't find it blatantly obvious Cedric-Fonte-VVD-Bertrand is our best defence, and it needs to play every game and improve together.

 

Likewise the midfield partnership in front of them needs consistency. Wanyama, Clasie, Romeu, Davis, JWP, we've paid the price for changing it round all the time and players have lost understanding and confidence. I think we still have decent players, we haven't become a bad side by losing 2 good players, it's just a lot of bad decisions and some bad luck. It will only be turned round by actually picking a consistent side though. For me right now that would be:

 

Stek (Forster when back)

Cedric Fonte VVD Bertrand

Clasie Wanyama

JWP Mane Tadic

Pelle

 

If Wanyama isn't interested then Romeu. Davis and JWP to compete for right mid, I like JWP there for the crosses especially with Pelle playing and think in time he and Cedric could link up well, which also allows Mane to play the no10 role and makes the side a lot more attacking. Clasie and Wanyama should be enough in terms of defensive midfield. Juanmi or Ramirez can fill in for Mane. With Davis in that role we are just far too negative so I'd rather he was right mid or defensive mid. Yoshida CB back up only, new RB needed as Martina is awful, and new CB ideally as Fonte won't last forever and Caulker is pathetic.

Completely agree with this. Koeman this season gets a 2/10 and it's been pretty abysmal on the whole. I didn't think we could field a more defensive team than away to City, but he managed to do it yesterday. A back 5 and 3 defensive minded midfielders and it's no surprise we struggle to score goals when this is the attitude of the manager.

We were playing against a team whose primary threat is down the wings. They have two very good wingers and Koeman's solution to that was to allow them to get one on one against our centre halves by playing wingbacks. It's suicidal stuff and cost us a goal as a direct result. And he then has the nerve to say afterwards that changing the system was a good idea.

I won't be sorry to see him go when he eventually leaves, as frankly even when we are getting results the style will not change. Defensive, long ball, boring rubbish played with no tempo whatsoever. It could put you to sleep

We've been built on a solid defence the last few years. I've never seen a top flight defence be good without a) it being a back 4, b) everyone knowing exactly what the strongest back 4 is, and c) it playing most weeks. Koeman likes to dabble with 3 or 5 at the back and it's disruptive.

 

Things were already disrupted by the VVD transfer being so late, so we had to start with Yoshida or the frankly appalling Caulker. From there, we needed VVD and Fonte together whenever possible. Now we've had injuries to Fonte and formation changes. Then all the nonsense about not playing Cedric in certain games. He's not Clyne no, but he's alright and blatantly the best option we have. I can't imagine many Saints fans wouldn't find it blatantly obvious Cedric-Fonte-VVD-Bertrand is our best defence, and it needs to play every game and improve together.

 

Likewise the midfield partnership in front of them needs consistency. Wanyama, Clasie, Romeu, Davis, JWP, we've paid the price for changing it round all the time and players have lost understanding and confidence. I think we still have decent players, we haven't become a bad side by losing 2 good players, it's just a lot of bad decisions and some bad luck. It will only be turned round by actually picking a consistent side though. For me right now that would be:

 

Stek (Forster when back)

Cedric Fonte VVD Bertrand

Clasie Wanyama

JWP Mane Tadic

Pelle

 

If Wanyama isn't interested then Romeu. Davis and JWP to compete for right mid, I like JWP there for the crosses especially with Pelle playing and think in time he and Cedric could link up well, which also allows Mane to play the no10 role and makes the side a lot more attacking. Clasie and Wanyama should be enough in terms of defensive midfield. Juanmi or Ramirez can fill in for Mane. With Davis in that role we are just far too negative so I'd rather he was right mid or defensive mid. Yoshida CB back up only, new RB needed as Martina is awful, and new CB ideally as Fonte won't last forever and Caulker is pathetic.

some good points in there

we are just slow as a side. any goal threat outside of a hoof up to pelle generally relies on Mane doing something on his own.

Tadic is hit and miss

Also, it is clear that Koeman is doing a decent job of distancing himself a little from the clubs transfer policy and has challenged them to back him

Clasie, Juanmi were supposed to come in and provide that spark. neither have done anything and cant buy a minute on the pitch

again, Ploughing a few million ££ into Martina is just raving bonkers. I do not believe for a second that him coming to SMS was a product of our so called amazing scouting system

Yesterday was a good example of us just plodding along. How Juanmi could not get on the pitch is insane. Long stayed on and JWP came on.

just boring, poor attacking, pragmatic (less so at the mo), safe football

bit like the other dutch fella at united

you sort of see why Koeman has had a very mixed bag with his previous jobs and been sacked/moved on

carry on the way we are, we will be in a relegation dogfight soon. We are better, we have shown better...

does that make what he said about RK, wrong?

Neither of them are doing a very good job just now. For me the Dutch football manager type philosophy just isn't right for the PL.

We've been built on a solid defence the last few years. I've never seen a top flight defence be good without a) it being a back 4, b) everyone knowing exactly what the strongest back 4 is, and c) it playing most weeks. Koeman likes to dabble with 3 or 5 at the back and it's disruptive.

 

Things were already disrupted by the VVD transfer being so late, so we had to start with Yoshida or the frankly appalling Caulker. From there, we needed VVD and Fonte together whenever possible. Now we've had injuries to Fonte and formation changes. Then all the nonsense about not playing Cedric in certain games. He's not Clyne no, but he's alright and blatantly the best option we have. I can't imagine many Saints fans wouldn't find it blatantly obvious Cedric-Fonte-VVD-Bertrand is our best defence, and it needs to play every game and improve together.

 

Likewise the midfield partnership in front of them needs consistency. Wanyama, Clasie, Romeu, Davis, JWP, we've paid the price for changing it round all the time and players have lost understanding and confidence. I think we still have decent players, we haven't become a bad side by losing 2 good players, it's just a lot of bad decisions and some bad luck. It will only be turned round by actually picking a consistent side though. For me right now that would be:

 

Stek (Forster when back)

Cedric Fonte VVD Bertrand

Clasie Wanyama

JWP Mane Tadic

Pelle

 

If Wanyama isn't interested then Romeu. Davis and JWP to compete for right mid, I like JWP there for the crosses especially with Pelle playing and think in time he and Cedric could link up well, which also allows Mane to play the no10 role and makes the side a lot more attacking. Clasie and Wanyama should be enough in terms of defensive midfield. Juanmi or Ramirez can fill in for Mane. With Davis in that role we are just far too negative so I'd rather he was right mid or defensive mid. Yoshida CB back up only, new RB needed as Martina is awful, and new CB ideally as Fonte won't last forever and Caulker is pathetic.

JWP is a tortoise. Doesn't have the pace to play wide.

bloody hell fans are so ungrateful. RK came in last season ad confounded the majority by turning a depleted squad into a decent team. He then lost 2 of our best players, tried and tested in the PL. He then had to try and find players who will fit in immediately and still be as good.

It is not about RK abilities it is about the Board and owners Project of keep reaping the crop and hoping to reseed with lesser quality.

Personally I also feel that we should have kept Djuracic and Alia as they had gained some PL experience last season and did show glimpses of quality on the attacking front.

I'm sure many have ponted out about a lack of pace, and midfielders who burst into the box.

Iam not looking forward to MP and his team of athletic and pressing players coming to us, thae lack of fitness is one thing I would point at RK. It is the way to play, win the ball close to the oppositions goal and you have less passes to make to get to their penalty box

bloody hell fans are so ungrateful. RK came in last season ad confounded the majority by turning a depleted squad into a decent team. He then lost 2 of our best players, tried and tested in the PL. He then had to try and find players who will fit in immediately and still be as good.

It is not about RK abilities it is about the Board and owners Project of keep reaping the crop and hoping to reseed with lesser quality.

 

Personally I also feel that we should have kept Djuracic and Alia as they had gained some PL experience last season and did show glimpses of quality on the attacking front.

 

I'm sure many have ponted out about a lack of pace, and midfielders who burst into the box.

 

Iam not looking forward to MP and his team of athletic and pressing players coming to us, thae lack of fitness is one thing I would point at RK. It is the way to play, win the ball close to the oppositions goal and you have less passes to make to get to their penalty box

Once more : SFC have known for 18months that Morgan was going. Their efforts to replace him or reorganise to cover his loss have been abysmal.

And I wonder now if we have been unfair on Pochettino when he claimed some credit for our form early last season.

bloody hell fans are so ungrateful. RK came in last season ad confounded the majority by turning a depleted squad into a decent team. He then lost 2 of our best players, tried and tested in the PL. He then had to try and find players who will fit in immediately and still be as good.

It is not about RK abilities it is about the Board and owners Project of keep reaping the crop and hoping to reseed with lesser quality.

 

Personally I also feel that we should have kept Djuracic and Alia as they had gained some PL experience last season and did show glimpses of quality on the attacking front.

 

I'm sure many have ponted out about a lack of pace, and midfielders who burst into the box.

 

Iam not looking forward to MP and his team of athletic and pressing players coming to us, thae lack of fitness is one thing I would point at RK. It is the way to play, win the ball close to the oppositions goal and you have less passes to make to get to their penalty box

You're complaining about us not buying enough quality but also complaining that we didn't permanently sign Elia and Djuracic? Right.

JWP is a tortoise. Doesn't have the pace to play wide.

So why was he and not Juanmi our third impact sub? Bizarre

So why was he and not Juanmi our third impact sub? Bizarre

This was my main bewilderment yesterday - we have seen so much of JWP and so little of Juanmi. JWP, whatever his qualities may be, is never going to be a late impact sub when you're chasing a game - on what I have seen of Juanmi, he has some speed, skill, eye for a pass and can bang a shot in; yet all we hear (from Ron) is he's not ready for EPL Football. It was a strange call on Ron's behalf.

JWP onviously brought on for set plays by that stage.

If Juanmi had come on it would have had to be for one of the forwards, and really at that stage could only have been Long.

Don't think that sub could be overly criticised.

bloody hell fans are so ungrateful. RK came in last season ad confounded the majority by turning a depleted squad into a decent team. He then lost 2 of our best players, tried and tested in the PL. He then had to try and find players who will fit in immediately and still be as good.

It is not about RK abilities it is about the Board and owners Project of keep reaping the crop and hoping to reseed with lesser quality.

 

Personally I also feel that we should have kept Djuracic and Alia as they had gained some PL experience last season and did show glimpses of quality on the attacking front.

 

I'm sure many have ponted out about a lack of pace, and midfielders who burst into the box.

 

Iam not looking forward to MP and his team of athletic and pressing players coming to us, thae lack of fitness is one thing I would point at RK. It is the way to play, win the ball close to the oppositions goal and you have less passes to make to get to their penalty box

"Bloody hell fans are so ungrateful"

Well said Nick, I quite agree.

We should be grateful for all the the Liebherrs have done for us. All this whinging makes me worry if Kat will pull the plug on us. It doesn't matter if we go down anyway because we achieved the five year plan in 3 years meaning we are now 1 year into the next 5 year plan so that gives us 4 years to make it there.

Remember where we were 7 years ago everyone!

"Bloody hell fans are so ungrateful"

 

Well said Nick, I quite agree.

 

We should be grateful for all the the Liebherrs have done for us. All this whinging makes me worry if Kat will pull the plug on us. It doesn't matter if we go down anyway because we achieved the five year plan in 3 years meaning we are now 1 year into the next 5 year plan so that gives us 4 years to make it there.

 

Remember where we were 7 years ago everyone!

Do you honestly think that a successful business woman makes investment decisions off the back of what gets said on an Internet forum? Hilarious.

Do you honestly think that a successful business woman makes investment decisions off the back of what gets said on an Internet forum? Hilarious.

he really doesnt.

No he hasn't lost it! Who would replace him?? No one who is better!

Our problem is the lack of goals. Our shots on target ratio us rubbish. If ever there was a time to buy a striker, it's now. But who could we get? Not sure there us anything available better than we have who we could afford.

Desperately need some pace too.

Would a striker fix our appalling defence ? Fix our extremely slow and predictable midfield ? Would he fix the bizarre negative formations Koeman seems to prefer ?

A striker wouldn't fix the problems we have . Besides what striker would come to us anyway ? We pay as little as possible and are currently in a downward spiral . The board have little interest in success as long as we turn a profit

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The board have little interest in success as long as we turn a profit

Explain the £60m debt then.

Cabaye wanted to join us, we didn't want to pay the £80k p/w that Palace are.

 

 

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Well that's a bit of a shame really as I honestly think he would've suited us down to the ground but I can understand the clubs stance on wages. That's a big wage for a club our size.

Well that's a bit of a shame really as I honestly think he would've suited us down to the ground but I can understand the clubs stance on wages. That's a big wage for a club our size.

more so when we budget for bottom 4 levels of spending

more so when we budget for bottom 4 levels of spending

Do we? I very much doubt that.

Tadic is very hit and miss, but think we need to stick with him and hope for the best. If he was consistently good he'd be playing for a top 4 club instead of us. Think he'd be helped out by Mane centrally though, more runs to pick out, another threat in the middle rather that looking up and only having a heavily marked Pelle to aim for

my views on Tadic are well known so I won't wind his supporters up any more except to say he has only started and finished the 90mins for us a total of 15 times in the Premiership. He has had 37 starts and been subbed 21 times. For me that is nowhere good enough for a player who costs what he did and who is our only true creative player.

Completely agree with this. Koeman this season gets a 2/10 and it's been pretty abysmal on the whole. I didn't think we could field a more defensive team than away to City, but he managed to do it yesterday. A back 5 and 3 defensive minded midfielders and it's no surprise we struggle to score goals when this is the attitude of the manager.

 

We were playing against a team whose primary threat is down the wings. They have two very good wingers and Koeman's solution to that was to allow them to get one on one against our centre halves by playing wingbacks. It's suicidal stuff and cost us a goal as a direct result. And he then has the nerve to say afterwards that changing the system was a good idea.

 

I won't be sorry to see him go when he eventually leaves, as frankly even when we are getting results the style will not change. Defensive, long ball, boring rubbish played with no tempo whatsoever. It could put you to sleep

2/10 - we are 12th in the league!

Koeman gave " a meteorlogical explanation" for yesterday's disappointing performance. ..even allowing for the regular absentees.

YES OF COURSE, it was the same for both teams, but our game plan is built on a passing game but yesterday it was like p*ssing in the wind sometimes.

Palace's direct style of play never allowed us the opportunity to pass the ball effectively. (and I can see why Bolasie is so highly-valued by Pardew)

my views on Tadic are well known so I won't wind his supporters up any more except to say he has only started and finished the 90mins for us a total of 15 times in the Premiership. He has had 37 starts and been subbed 21 times.

For me that is nowhere good enough for a player who costs what he did and who is our only true creative player.

(from memory only)...sounds like the sort of stats. for Adam Lallana ....

I love this place when it all starts to go wrong. Bunch of fcking bedwetters. These are consistently the best of times I have had as a Saints supporter in 50+ years. I honestly believe that most of the angst on here is because people have to go back to work on Monday and face the banter of non-Saints work colleagues who give them pelters and they can't handle it. Grow up! Dare I say it's only football?

"Bloody hell fans are so ungrateful"

 

Well said Nick, I quite agree.

 

We should be grateful for all the the Liebherrs have done for us. All this whinging makes me worry if Kat will pull the plug on us. It doesn't matter if we go down anyway because we achieved the five year plan in 3 years meaning we are now 1 year into the next 5 year plan so that gives us 4 years to make it there.

 

Remember where we were 7 years ago everyone!

Brilliant stuff, your insightful comments seem to by-pass a good many on here!!

I love this place when it all starts to go wrong. Bunch of fcking bedwetters. These are consistently the best of times I have had as a Saints supporter in 50+ years. I honestly believe that most of the angst on here is because people have to go back to work on Monday and face the banter of non-Saints work colleagues who give them pelters and they can't handle it. Grow up! Dare I say it's only football?

I don't think its that mate. I think its that by and large most people that got to football these days, especially those that post on Internet forums are complete and utter helmets.

Although there is much wrong with modern football, the rise of the mongboard over the last 10-15 years has given even the most clueless dinlow a voice which provides me with endless hours of humour. reading the views of the self styled genius tacticians, motivational gurus, finance whizzes, physiotherapists, scouts, legal experts and so forth that inhabit this forum keeps me grounded good times and lifts my spirits in bad times. I'm never quite sure if this place excels itself in good times with the deluded ramblings of those who believe we are English Barcelona trapped in a stadium far too small for us or in bad times with the wrist slitting, everyone is sh*t hand wringing.

my views on Tadic are well known so I won't wind his supporters up any more except to say he has only started and finished the 90mins for us a total of 15 times in the Premiership. He has had 37 starts and been subbed 21 times. For me that is nowhere good enough for a player who costs what he did and who is our only true creative player.

How many assists and goals in that time? And how do those stats compare to similar players of similar market value from other clubs similar to us?

I don't know the answer to either of those questions but surely that would be a better assessment model than 'Fitzhugh Fella Good Enough Scale' you currently use. It may well be that he compares unfavourably - it would be interesting to know.

I don't think its that mate. I think its that by and large most people that got to football these days, especially those that post on Internet forums are complete and utter helmets.

 

Although there is much wrong with modern football, the rise of the mongboard over the last 10-15 years has given even the most clueless dinlow a voice which provides me with endless hours of humour. reading the views of the self styled genius tacticians, motivational gurus, finance whizzes, physiotherapists, scouts, legal experts and so forth that inhabit this forum keeps me grounded good times and lifts my spirits in bad times. I'm never quite sure if this place excels itself in good times with the deluded ramblings of those who believe we are English Barcelona trapped in a stadium far too small for us or in bad times with the wrist slitting, everyone is sh*t hand wringing.

Now it's become clear to me that we will never finish above Crystal Palace in the league ever again, a little part of me thinks maybe it was a good thing we didn't immediately commit to a 50,000 seater stadium back in 2014. Although of course the hotdog revenue from that stadium alone probably would have meant we could have signed Zlatan Ibrahimovic or something.

I don't think its that mate. I think its that by and large most people that got to football these days, especially those that post on Internet forums are complete and utter helmets.

 

Although there is much wrong with modern football, the rise of the mongboard over the last 10-15 years has given even the most clueless dinlow a voice which provides me with endless hours of humour. reading the views of the self styled genius tacticians, motivational gurus, finance whizzes, physiotherapists, scouts, legal experts and so forth that inhabit this forum keeps me grounded good times and lifts my spirits in bad times. I'm never quite sure if this place excels itself in good times with the deluded ramblings of those who believe we are English Barcelona trapped in a stadium far too small for us or in bad times with the wrist slitting, everyone is sh*t hand wringing.

This 100%

I don't think its that mate. I think its that by and large most people that got to football these days, especially those that post on Internet forums are complete and utter helmets.

 

Although there is much wrong with modern football, the rise of the mongboard over the last 10-15 years has given even the most clueless dinlow a voice which provides me with endless hours of humour. reading the views of the self styled genius tacticians, motivational gurus, finance whizzes, physiotherapists, scouts, legal experts and so forth that inhabit this forum keeps me grounded good times and lifts my spirits in bad times. I'm never quite sure if this place excels itself in good times with the deluded ramblings of those who believe we are English Barcelona trapped in a stadium far too small for us or in bad times with the wrist slitting, everyone is sh*t hand wringing.

This

Explain the £60m debt then.

60 million in debt and the team has gone backwards massively. ....

Please explain how the board is doing such a great job ?

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Something has gone badly wrong behind the scenes.

Like what? I've seen this written a few times recently with no suggestion of what is wrong or foundations to back up the claim.

I love this place when it all starts to go wrong. Bunch of fcking bedwetters. These are consistently the best of times I have had as a Saints supporter in 50+ years. I honestly believe that most of the angst on here is because people have to go back to work on Monday and face the banter of non-Saints work colleagues who give them pelters and they can't handle it. Grow up! Dare I say it's only football?

You must have been away on another planet then for significant chunks of that period when we were eminently better than we are right now and at any time under Koeman....

I have to say with less comparable budget too...

I don't think its that mate. I think its that by and large most people that got to football these days, especially those that post on Internet forums are complete and utter helmets.

 

Although there is much wrong with modern football, the rise of the mongboard over the last 10-15 years has given even the most clueless dinlow a voice which provides me with endless hours of humour. reading the views of the self styled genius tacticians, motivational gurus, finance whizzes, physiotherapists, scouts, legal experts and so forth that inhabit this forum keeps me grounded good times and lifts my spirits in bad times. I'm never quite sure if this place excels itself in good times with the deluded ramblings of those who believe we are English Barcelona trapped in a stadium far too small for us or in bad times with the wrist slitting, everyone is sh*t hand wringing.

Twenty years ago all this would have been discussed down the pub, now it can be done from your armchair, but you're right.

Not sure why there is so much rudeness and aggression on here? This is a forum for discussing views / opinions after all, and if you don't agree with said view then fair enough and offer a counter view nicely (costs nothing to be polite after all).

My personal view (opinion or guess if you like) is that RK has "lost his mojo" and that is transpiring to the players. I think he went to the board and said, ok we tried your/cheap way in the summer and it is not working, so in January I need you to back me with 2 to 3 big players for us to really compete. Board told him no way Jose (or Ron even), so he does not believe he can improve the team and will move on when his contract ends. A lot of recent media leaks / stories seem to back this up - e.g. Fonte, and the RK saying he spoke to Fonte and he should not have said that etc. etc. Board and RK out of step, and club captain Fonte trying to bridge the gap. Ambition gone = lack of motivation / effort "in my own opinion".

KL is the owner and so has the right to run the club as she wishes, and I will always be internally grateful for her beloved father for saving our club, but please be honest with the fans. If we are budgeted for bottom four in the PL, and believe we have the infrastructure etc. in place to survive or be mid table than fine, it's her call. But let's stop all the nonsense about Europe or eventually winning the league. I would rather be mid table PL than L3 any day, but do admit to getting caught up in the "Southampton Way" project. In short, give us honesty not BS!

You will probably get the usual stick, but thats largely correct.

 

Got a bit too clever this summer with signings after the success of last summer.

 

If ever there was a time to buy an experienced PL player, like Cabaye for example, it was to replace Morgan.

 

We can't afford to wait 6/9 months for his replacement to get up to speed with the PL, if he ever does.

But as usual he's not right; we did identify a replacement early doors (after pusuading Morgan to stay because RK knew we weren't ready for life without him), we built a pre season around Classie to get him integrated into the team. He then got injured and we have struggled getting him to where RK thought he could be. It hasn't come off and it may never come of, it might in hindsight be a poor buy (although a lot of people on here were happy with it) but to say we did nothing about MS going is the usual Alpine bull****.

How many assists and goals in that time? And how do those stats compare to similar players of similar market value from other clubs similar to us?

 

I don't know the answer to either of those questions but surely that would be a better assessment model than 'Fitzhugh Fella Good Enough Scale' you currently use. It may well be that he compares unfavourably - it would be interesting to know.

It would but the bottom line is if he was doing the business on the pitch consistently then he wouldn't be subbed.

Not sure why there is so much rudeness and aggression on here? This is a forum for discussing views / opinions after all, and if you don't agree with said view then fair enough and offer a counter view nicely (costs nothing to be polite after all).

 

My personal view (opinion or guess if you like) is that RK has "lost his mojo" and that is transpiring to the players. I think he went to the board and said, ok we tried your/cheap way in the summer and it is not working, so in January I need you to back me with 2 to 3 big players for us to really compete. Board told him no way Jose (or Ron even), so he does not believe he can improve the team and will move on when his contract ends. A lot of recent media leaks / stories seem to back this up - e.g. Fonte, and the RK saying he spoke to Fonte and he should not have said that etc. etc. Board and RK out of step, and club captain Fonte trying to bridge the gap. Ambition gone = lack of motivation / effort "in my own opinion".

 

KL is the owner and so has the right to run the club as she wishes, and I will always be internally grateful for her beloved father for saving our club, but please be honest with the fans. If we are budgeted for bottom four in the PL, and believe we have the infrastructure etc. in place to survive or be mid table than fine, it's her call. But let's stop all the nonsense about Europe or eventually winning the league. I would rather be mid table PL than L3 any day, but do admit to getting caught up in the "Southampton Way" project. In short, give us honesty not BS!

Excellent post

Not sure why there is so much rudeness and aggression on here? This is a forum for discussing views / opinions after all, and if you don't agree with said view then fair enough and offer a counter view nicely (costs nothing to be polite after all).

 

My personal view (opinion or guess if you like) is that RK has "lost his mojo" and that is transpiring to the players. I think he went to the board and said, ok we tried your/cheap way in the summer and it is not working, so in January I need you to back me with 2 to 3 big players for us to really compete. Board told him no way Jose (or Ron even), so he does not believe he can improve the team and will move on when his contract ends. A lot of recent media leaks / stories seem to back this up - e.g. Fonte, and the RK saying he spoke to Fonte and he should not have said that etc. etc. Board and RK out of step, and club captain Fonte trying to bridge the gap. Ambition gone = lack of motivation / effort "in my own opinion".

 

KL is the owner and so has the right to run the club as she wishes, and I will always be internally grateful for her beloved father for saving our club, but please be honest with the fans. If we are budgeted for bottom four in the PL, and believe we have the infrastructure etc. in place to survive or be mid table than fine, it's her call. But let's stop all the nonsense about Europe or eventually winning the league. I would rather be mid table PL than L3 any day, but do admit to getting caught up in the "Southampton Way" project. In short, give us honesty not BS!

You might want to actually sit down and listen to what Les Reed says about our ambition and how we go about things.

Certainly can't remember him saying anything about us "eventually winning the league" but if he did it would be entirely in the context of our principles which are very clear, repeated countless times, completely unambiguous and wholly consistent with our activities over the summer. Recommended you pay attention and understand before you start calling stuff "BS".

Hugely worrying that our apparent club historian lapping posts like this up, but then hardly a surprise on previous form.

I don't want rid of Koeman, but he has been abysmal this season. I think he's been easily pleased, not taken responsibility, made too many changes, weird tactics and got most decisions badly wrong.

 

But sacking him would be a short term fix and make us just like every other club. I can handle a sh1t season, but he needs to learn from it, sort it out and move forward. I don't mind finishing 13th or 14th if we try and play some decent creative football, give some attacking players a chance, but right now it's just tedious dross.

that's a strange observation - I've actually found based on performance alone we've been in quite a few games we've lost recently. even away at city 2nd half, home to villa for most of the game, against leicester, in little bits against palace - in all of them we've played very good creative football, just never put the damn thing in the back of the net. trouble is it's not a whole game.

I'm not saying it's been glorious or even excusable, just that i've enjoyed the football we've been playing in large part. can't say much for long/yoshida, who generally seem to get on my nerves and bring the overall 'first touch' quality / reliability levels down, but most of the other players have been, albeit low on confidence, playing alright.

You might want to actually sit down and listen to what Les Reed says about our ambition and how we go about things.

 

Certainly can't remember him saying anything about us "eventually winning the league" but if he did it would be entirely in the context of our principles which are very clear, repeated countless times, completely unambiguous and wholly consistent with our activities over the summer. Recommended you pay attention and understand before you start calling stuff "BS".

 

Hugely worrying that our apparent club historian lapping posts like this up, but then hardly a surprise on previous form.

Exactly this. That bottom paragraph from Red is laughable. Budgeted for the bottom four? Haha shut up. Take a look at what has actually happened at the club. We've spent good money and genuine what we thought were good purchases. Some of them haven't quite come off yet, shock horror not everything is going to fall is to place instantly like it did last season. Jesus christ we're not even that bad. We've had a bad couple of results, it happens, especially in a league which is incredibly competitive and tight. I can only think of two teams who are certain to go down (Norwich and Villa) and two teams who are certain to finish in the top four (City and Arsenal), the rest are going to fluctuate. The rest are going to win some games and lose games. The rest are going to have some good patches of form and some bad patches of form. Right now we're in a bad patch of form but lost his mojo, budgeted for bottom four all along and Europe is nonsense is ridiculous.

Chill out. It's a long season.

Exactly this. That bottom paragraph from Red is laughable. Budgeted for the bottom four? Haha shut up. Take a look at what has actually happened at the club. We've spent good money and genuine what we thought were good purchases. Some of them haven't quite come off yet, shock horror not everything is going to fall is to place instantly like it did last season. Jesus christ we're not even that bad. We've had a bad couple of results, it happens, especially in a league which is incredibly competitive and tight. I can only think of two teams who are certain to go down (Norwich and Villa) and two teams who are certain to finish in the top four (City and Arsenal), the rest are going to fluctuate. The rest are going to win some games and lose games. The rest are going to have some good patches of form and some bad patches of form. Right now we're in a bad patch of form but lost his mojo, budgeted for bottom four all along and Europe is nonsense is ridiculous.

 

Chill out. It's a long season.

Bottom four budget = that came from koeman, pal.

You have so someone in the club talking about having a bottom four budget; and another talking up finishing top four as a realistic aspiration, that's a picture of perfect consistency

Then again, some people don't know whether the s**t comes out of their mouth or out of their àršè.

Nope!!

my views on Tadic are well known so I won't wind his supporters up any more except to say he has only started and finished the 90mins for us a total of 15 times in the Premiership. He has had 37 starts and been subbed 21 times. For me that is nowhere good enough for a player who costs what he did and who is our only true creative player.

Only caveat I'd add to these statistics is that Tadic is the sort of player you sacrifice when you're trying to defend a lead, and also plays in a position which managers tend to substitute fairly often (i.e. low risk - when do you see managers taking off defenders with 10 minutes to go?)

He cost less than a schlong, didn't he?!

Koeman made two big mistakes in our two biggest games this season (in Europe and in the Capital One Cup) but overall I think he is doing a decent job with the players he has at his disposal.

Completely agree with this. Koeman this season gets a 2/10 and it's been pretty abysmal on the whole. I didn't think we could field a more defensive team than away to City, but he managed to do it yesterday. A back 5 and 3 defensive minded midfielders and it's no surprise we struggle to score goals when this is the attitude of the manager.

 

We were playing against a team whose primary threat is down the wings. They have two very good wingers and Koeman's solution to that was to allow them to get one on one against our centre halves by playing wingbacks. It's suicidal stuff and cost us a goal as a direct result. And he then has the nerve to say afterwards that changing the system was a good idea.

 

I won't be sorry to see him go when he eventually leaves, as frankly even when we are getting results the style will not change. Defensive, long ball, boring rubbish played with no tempo whatsoever. It could put you to sleep

I disagree that it was the wrong system for containing their primary threat. The point (I'd imagine) was for our full backs to push on and pen their wingers back into defensive positions, where they would be a weakness, but if they did get goalside on a break, we'd still have enough cover at centre back not to be outnumbered. Unfortunately, Bertrand was the worst player on the pitch and Cedric didn't seem to know what he was doing in the first half. Perhaps that lack of instruction comes from the management.

Palace didn't create many chances in the game, I've been to matches where I've felt permanently sick due to the opposition's constant threat and I didn't feel like that. The problem was that going forward we were pretty toothless - a by-product of wing backs not getting forward, two defensive midfielders and general ponderous play.

I'm not saying 3-5-2 is our best formation generally, but I don't think on Saturday it was the biggest mistake. I more worry that Koeman has lost it in other ways; the players look like there either isn't a gameplan, or that they're not invested in it. And I do question some of his substitutions - for example, Romeu was so much better than Wanyama vs Palace, yet it was he who was replaced by JWP.

C

But as usual he's not right; we did identify a replacement early doors (after pusuading Morgan to stay because RK knew we weren't ready for life without him), we built a pre season around Classie to get him integrated into the team. He then got injured and we have struggled getting him to where RK thought he could be. It hasn't come off and it may never come of, it might in hindsight be a poor buy (although a lot of people on here were happy with it) but to say we did nothing about MS going is the usual Alpine bull****.

Surely buying Clasie who is not a step up even on what we have, let alone Morgan is doing nothing .....

It's not all about the price you pay of course but it is about the quality and Clasie is very average ....