SAINTS 1-2 Palace Post Match Meltdown.

So Clasie (who you go on to praise, I'm assuming because there's no one else) can't run with the ball past the midfield line, yet Davis (only midfielder who can) is a liability. He lost the ball yesterday, but how many players did we have behind him and in front of Puncheon?? We were playing with FIVE defenders, none of whom were out of position. And what kind of defender passes a ball straight down the middle with the front 3 of the opposition closing down?

I know it's the obvious mistake that gets punished the most and rightly so, but let's be honest about this and see that the whole minute building up to the goal is a perfect show of how the team really does not work under this abhorrent Dutch obsession of 5-3-2.

Yes indeed, I'm still quietly seething about the first-half formation, and I'm struggling to see the point of the way we pass a short ball forward from the back to a midfielder coming short who can then only play it first-time back to the defenders. It gets us nowhere and anything mis-hit is liable to put us in trouble.

5 at the back in the FA Cup at home?!?!? WTF was that all about? And with Yoshida, a player low on confidence and lacking games in a formation he's not used to, it was only going to spell disaster.

My Wife dubbed Targett with the name 'Off' as so many times he couldn't find a Saints player and his crosses into the box were awful. And he got skinned so many times it was pitiful. The only bright light in defence was Martina who I thought played really well and showed some real intent.

Mane is now hopeless. IF anyone is prepared to pay upwards of £8m for him I would bite their hands off. Long was handed scraps by a dysfunctional midfield - you could see him get more and more frustrated from early in the game.

Overall, our attack is so laboured and predictable - no balls through the channels - hardly anyone has the courage or skill to shoot. The only player to have a go like that was Romeu - a defensive midfielder.

Make no mistake, we are witnessing relegation form. I just hope the club invest in some much needed talent this window or we'll be sucked into the mire over the next 2-3 games.

5 at the back in the FA Cup at home?!?!? WTF was that all about? And with Yoshida, a player low on confidence and lacking games in a formation he's not used to, it was only going to spell disaster.

 

My Wife dubbed Targett with the name 'Off' as so many times he couldn't find a Saints player and his crosses into the box were awful. And he got skinned so many times it was pitiful. The only bright light in defence was Martina who I thought played really well and showed some real intent.

 

Mane is now hopeless. IF anyone is prepared to pay upwards of £8m for him I would bite their hands off. Long was handed scraps by a dysfunctional midfield - you could see him get more and more frustrated from early in the game.

 

Overall, our attack is so laboured and predictable - no balls through the channels - hardly anyone has the courage or skill to shoot. The only player to have a go like that was Romeu - a defensive midfielder.

 

Make no mistake, we are witnessing relegation form. I just hope the club invest in some much needed talent this window or we'll be sucked into the mire over the next 2-3 games.

We do need some investment in the team for sure. Can't help thinking though that a lot of the issues are down to poor coaching.

Which of our players have improved in the past year?

On the face of it losing narrowly to a talented vibrant Palace team these days is no disgrace.

What is disappointing is the lack of ambition from the start.

Against organised hard working teams we frankly don't look like scoring and lose concentration far too often in recent games.

Stek has come in for some criticism but as someone pointed out earlier, apart from Arsenal, we have scored just 6 goals in 10 games.

We are not getting thrashed however, losing by the odd goal so often recently must be frustrating for all concerned. The post match stats for what they're worth are generally favourable, but in 10 games or so RK has not managed to find a solution to our losing streak - I feel that should be long enough. Either RK does not have what it takes or the players simply aren't good enough, although the first third of the season was not spectacular but acceptable/good so whats gone wrong ?

The Arsenal result should have been a springboard but we lost the next 3 games and conifidence is low again.

The next 2 games are vital, we must win at least one of them.

The path hasn't been shut, RK has just pointed out what many people already know that the latest batch are not good enough. He wants there to be no doubt that he is not scared to play young players, but he will only do so if they are good enough. And they aren't.

 

It's a hell of a lot easier to bring young players into the first team in league 1 and the championship. The players don't have to be as good. To get into a prem side they need to be absolute top notch.. If you have a Shaw coming through its a no brainer. Get him straight away. But if Targett is the best young player then you are ****ed. The guy is lightweight, slow and a long way from being premiership level yet. He wouldn't stand out at championship level and neither would Reed.

 

No one has been misled. When you sign for a pro team as a youth their are absolute no guarantees given about opportunities in the first team. How the hell can there be? If players are good enough they will be get games.

I watched the U21'S cup game against Chelsea mid week and there was not a single player apart from Harrison Reed that i would have near the first team. Chelsea youngsters completely outplayed them and we got very lucky with a huge ammount of help from our FIRST Team goalkeeper.

RK was correct in what he said. The next batch are not up to it at present.

We do need some investment in the team for sure. Can't help thinking though that a lot of the issues are down to poor coaching.

 

Which of our players have improved in the past year?

A lot of new faces that haven't been here a year, so a long list is never going to be possible, but Gazza and JWP have improved since this time last year.

Also, how do you separate the effect of a loss of confidence from any improvements made to ability and performance through coaching?

One more thing, do you expect senior players to get better every single year? Is Fonte for example meant to be better every single year because of good coaching? Form and confidence and team performance effect fans appreciation of a players performance and ability far more than coaching.

Actually one more thing. Is it good coaching that has made Messi better? Coaches can only do so much.

I watched the U21'S cup game against Chelsea mid week and there was not a single player apart from Harrison Reed that i would have near the first team. Chelsea youngsters completely outplayed them and we got very lucky with a huge ammount of help from our FIRST Team goalkeeper.

RK was correct in what he said. The next batch are not up to it at present.

Did Seager play in that game and if so how would you evaluate his performance and can you describe what sort of play he is? Does he has the strength to hide the ball up, speed to skin a defender, does he win headers, how is his first touch and movement? I see so many calls for him to get ten minutes at least, but does he even justify that?

Why were we able to beat Arsenal so convincingly? Same players largely. It's down to formation and tactics. Whether it is Koeman himself or his advisors, there are some really, really bad mistakes being made before the players walk onto the pitch.

Why were we able to beat Arsenal so convincingly? Same players largely. It's down to formation and tactics. Whether it is Koeman himself or his advisors, there are some really, really bad mistakes being made before the players walk onto the pitch.

How is it that teams at the bottom beat teams at the top? That happens all the time. That's football.

If we had made the mistakes we made leading to the goals yesterday in that arsenal game the result would have been very different. The formation didn't lead to that terrible pass by Davis or save by Stek.

Just seen the highlights on the Saints Youtube page and that is a sitter from Shane Long in the final minutes.

Just seen the highlights on the Saints Youtube page and that is a sitter from Shane Long in the final minutes.

It's Shane Long, what do you expect. He has good days and awful days . 12 million £ well spent really.

It's Shane Long, what do you expect. He has good days and awful days . 12 million £ well spent really.

Well I expect a football player to be able to score a free header 6 yards out.

Why were we able to beat Arsenal so convincingly? Same players largely. It's down to formation and tactics. Whether it is Koeman himself or his advisors, there are some really, really bad mistakes being made before the players walk onto the pitch.

Dead cat bounce.

After today's showing against Swansea, perhaps we should swap our team for Oxfords!

I watched the U21'S cup game against Chelsea mid week and there was not a single player apart from Harrison Reed that i would have near the first team. Chelsea youngsters completely outplayed them and we got very lucky with a huge ammount of help from our FIRST Team goalkeeper.

RK was correct in what he said. The next batch are not up to it at present.

I disagree with your conclusion. I have been at most U21 games this season including the away games v Chelsea, Man City and Spurs. Yes last weeks game was a poor performance but in those other three the U21s were very good. Won 3-1 at Stamford bridge with sharp excellent goals from McQueen and Heskey. Won 2-0 v Spurs with goals from Targett and Sims out-battling a team that included Townsend (one trick pony). And deserved more from the 3-1 defeat at Man City.

The first team have poor performances yet Koeman refuses to allow many U21s to even train with the first team to get serious experience or get them playing for a few minutes off the bench in cup games and it is a fact Koeman does not even talk to them never mind try and encourage them. He is aloof and arrogant. How are they supposed to develop? Koeman does not develop players his training methods are not a patch on Pochettino nor keep the players as fit as he did. Pochetino thought players like McQueen had potential and gave him his debut. He played reasonably in Feb 2014 not looking out of place. So somehow he's now not good enough. That's because the U21s are stagnating under Koemans reign. They will be going out on loan to get experience cos there is none available at their home club where many of them have spent 12 years. It's rubbish and Koeman bears some responsibility.

I disagree with your conclusion. I have been at most U21 games this season including the away games v Chelsea, Man City and Spurs. Yes last weeks game was a poor performance but in those other three the U21s were very good. Won 3-1 at Stamford bridge with sharp excellent goals from McQueen and Heskey. Won 2-0 v Spurs with goals from Targett and Sims out-battling a team that included Townsend (one trick pony). And deserved more from the 3-1 defeat at Man City.

The first team have poor performances yet Koeman refuses to allow many U21s to even train with the first team to get serious experience or get them playing for a few minutes off the bench in cup games and it is a fact Koeman does not even talk to them never mind try and encourage them. He is aloof and arrogant. How are they supposed to develop? Koeman does not develop players his training methods are not a patch on Pochettino nor keep the players as fit as he did. Pochetino thought players like McQueen had potential and gave him his debut. He played reasonably in Feb 2014 not looking out of place. So somehow he's now not good enough. That's because the U21s are stagnating under Koemans reign. They will be going out on loan to get experience cos there is none available at their home club where many of them have spent 12 years. It's rubbish and Koeman bears some responsibility.

If it were as bad as you say I couldn't see the club standing for it.

Interesting post AllSorts. Thanks for that.

His set piece crosses are good though, they do offer creativity, more than Reed or Seager.

An inswinging corner creative? I must re-read my dictionary. To me it's a bog-standard set-peice that will almost certainly be properly defended. If JWP had the imagination to try to go for the far post and get it in direct from the corner I might agree there's some creativity there but it's plain that he's not creative-minded. The only younger players who do seem to have that are (to varying degrees) Seager, Hesketh, Stephens, Sims, Barnes (when he was fit; he looks to have a bit of something about him), Wood. I can't comment on the likes of Little, I've not seen him enough.

I would have put either Reed in and had the midfield try to push higher up the field to keep the pressure on or brought on Seager, but probably for Mane if Juanmi was already on. Now I do think that Seager will turn out to be another Billy Sharp but with differences (knows where the goal is, not quick/strong enough for the top flight, better on the ball and more intelligent than Sharp but not quite the instinctive finisher that Sharp is) but trying him out isn't going to hurt when the alternative is the perpetually-anonymous JWP. You'll all know the definition of insanity by, I think, Einstein. That's what playing JWP, the same tactics, etc feels like. I do wonder if Seager mightn't do ok in a little and large partnership with Pelle and Mane/Tadic roaming behind. Possibly both and then just leave Romeu and Clasie shielding the defence.

An inswinging corner creative? I must re-read my dictionary. To me it's a bog-standard set-peice that will almost certainly be properly defended. If JWP had the imagination to try to go for the far post and get it in direct from the corner I might agree there's some creativity there but it's plain that he's not creative-minded. The only younger players who do seem to have that are (to varying degrees) Seager, Hesketh, Stephens, Sims, Barnes (when he was fit; he looks to have a bit of something about him), Wood. I can't comment on the likes of Little, I've not seen him enough.

 

I would have put either Reed in and had the midfield try to push higher up the field to keep the pressure on or brought on Seager, but probably for Mane if Juanmi was already on. Now I do think that Seager will turn out to be another Billy Sharp but with differences (knows where the goal is, not quick/strong enough for the top flight, better on the ball and more intelligent than Sharp but not quite the instinctive finisher that Sharp is) but trying him out isn't going to hurt when the alternative is the perpetually-anonymous JWP. You'll all know the definition of insanity by, I think, Einstein. That's what playing JWP, the same tactics, etc feels like. I do wonder if Seager mightn't do ok in a little and large partnership with Pelle and Mane/Tadic roaming behind. Possibly both and then just leave Romeu and Clasie shielding the defence.

I don't know about re-read, maybe a problem with basic interpretation and understanding?

I disagree with your conclusion. I have been at most U21 games this season including the away games v Chelsea, Man City and Spurs. Yes last weeks game was a poor performance but in those other three the U21s were very good. Won 3-1 at Stamford bridge with sharp excellent goals from McQueen and Heskey. Won 2-0 v Spurs with goals from Targett and Sims out-battling a team that included Townsend (one trick pony). And deserved more from the 3-1 defeat at Man City.

The first team have poor performances yet Koeman refuses to allow many U21s to even train with the first team to get serious experience or get them playing for a few minutes off the bench in cup games and it is a fact Koeman does not even talk to them never mind try and encourage them. He is aloof and arrogant. How are they supposed to develop? Koeman does not develop players his training methods are not a patch on Pochettino nor keep the players as fit as he did. Pochetino thought players like McQueen had potential and gave him his debut. He played reasonably in Feb 2014 not looking out of place. So somehow he's now not good enough. That's because the U21s are stagnating under Koemans reign. They will be going out on loan to get experience cos there is none available at their home club where many of them have spent 12 years. It's rubbish and Koeman bears some responsibility.

Well I expect a football player to be able to score a free header 6 yards out.

It wasn't a free header, Virgil challenged him for it and jumped right in front of him.

How do you know what Koeman's training methods are compared to MP's?

If he goes to U21 away games I'd suppose he's(she's) either close to a player or someone in the structure perhaps.

I remember Chambers having a few wobbly games before starting to ask questions of Clyne.

It's a matter of approach, and manager mentality- Pochettino, for all our dull possession game, is just more brave and dynamic than Koeman.

And there's no better reflection of that than the fact that we signed one player who had already been under MP, who funnily enough couldn't make it to the starting 11 and left soon, while with Koeman we have been signing his own ex-players plus others from a league he knows, and they play every week.

We were a better side when MP left than when he joined. I'm not sure we are going to be better when RK leaves than when he joined. And if you start tracking these little things, it's easy to see why, and it's not just about selling players.

Is that the same for players we buy then...

In terms of payment terms, yes it is, but every time a player changes clubs there is a lot of 'leakage'. Of course, any player that we sell who has a sell-on clause will reduce our takings.

If he goes to U21 away games I'd suppose he's(she's) either close to a player or someone in the structure perhaps.

When you hear Saints players talking about both managers, you can clearly see that MP is much more demanding and worked the players more. Steven Davis even said that playing games was easier than training under MP and that they felt physically strong in games. That s why you saw the team pressing all over the place because they were capable of doing it.

Their opinions of RK is that he is a calm manager, a good guy and has a good sense of humor. Not sure these are the traits of a great manager. We are too soft as a team and easily overworked by teams who want it more.

That is what is frustrating with our current run. Went to the Crystal Palace away game, you could clearly see that Palace were the hungrier side. That to me is not down to the recruitment but the motivation of platers and the training regime which the manager is responsible of.

We were a better side when MP left than when he joined. I'm not sure we are going to be better when RK leaves than when he joined.

Not sure that's fair - when Koeman joined we didn't have a team at all because we were in the middle of selling it. So Koeman takes credit for rebuilding the team with remarkable success, and blame for not sustaining that success so far this season.

It wasn't a free header, Virgil challenged him for it and jumped right in front of him.

Can see what you mean by Van Dijk but Long should still score. He gets good contact on the ball. It's a sitter imo.

When you hear Saints players talking about both managers, you can clearly see that MP is much more demanding and worked the players more. Steven Davis even said that playing games was easier than training under MP and that they felt physically strong in games. That s why you saw the team pressing all over the place because they were capable of doing it.

 

Their opinions of RK is that he is a calm manager, a good guy and has a good sense of humor. Not sure these are the traits of a great manager. We are too soft as a team and easily overworked by teams who want it more.

That is what is frustrating with our current run. Went to the Crystal Palace away game, you could clearly see that Palace were the hungrier side. That to me is not down to the recruitment but the motivation of platers and the training regime which the manager is responsible of.

perhaps Koeman has already done too much in football and doesn't instill "hungriness". MP and his 3 aides were all relatively young men when they first came to the club. Just an idea, also I'm beginning to believe that D'Agostino might be a bloody good coach for young players, a nothing footballer, well at least he wasn't when I saw him at Niort once or twice, but sometimes that's not a great drawback in coaching.

When you hear Saints players talking about both managers, you can clearly see that MP is much more demanding and worked the players more. Steven Davis even said that playing games was easier than training under MP and that they felt physically strong in games. That s why you saw the team pressing all over the place because they were capable of doing it.

 

Their opinions of RK is that he is a calm manager, a good guy and has a good sense of humor. Not sure these are the traits of a great manager. We are too soft as a team and easily overworked by teams who want it more.

That is what is frustrating with our current run. Went to the Crystal Palace away game, you could clearly see that Palace were the hungrier side. That to me is not down to the recruitment but the motivation of platers and the training regime which the manager is responsible of.

Well they do say the team is a reflection of the manager!

When you hear Saints players talking about both managers, you can clearly see that MP is much more demanding and worked the players more. Steven Davis even said that playing games was easier than training under MP and that they felt physically strong in games. That s why you saw the team pressing all over the place because they were capable of doing it.

 

Their opinions of RK is that he is a calm manager, a good guy and has a good sense of humor. Not sure these are the traits of a great manager. We are too soft as a team and easily overworked by teams who want it more.

That is what is frustrating with our current run. Went to the Crystal Palace away game, you could clearly see that Palace were the hungrier side. That to me is not down to the recruitment but the motivation of platers and the training regime which the manager is responsible of.

Yet Koeman's team did better than MP's despite no Rodriguez and Forster out for a while.

I disagree with your conclusion. I have been at most U21 games this season including the away games v Chelsea, Man City and Spurs. Yes last weeks game was a poor performance but in those other three the U21s were very good. Won 3-1 at Stamford bridge with sharp excellent goals from McQueen and Heskey. Won 2-0 v Spurs with goals from Targett and Sims out-battling a team that included Townsend (one trick pony). And deserved more from the 3-1 defeat at Man City.

The first team have poor performances yet Koeman refuses to allow many U21s to even train with the first team to get serious experience or get them playing for a few minutes off the bench in cup games and it is a fact Koeman does not even talk to them never mind try and encourage them. He is aloof and arrogant. How are they supposed to develop? Koeman does not develop players his training methods are not a patch on Pochettino nor keep the players as fit as he did. Pochetino thought players like McQueen had potential and gave him his debut. He played reasonably in Feb 2014 not looking out of place. So somehow he's now not good enough. That's because the U21s are stagnating under Koemans reign. They will be going out on loan to get experience cos there is none available at their home club where many of them have spent 12 years. It's rubbish and Koeman bears some responsibility.

Agree with this. Pochettino and Adkins went to pretty much every U21 game when they were here, including long distance midweek away games. Koeman can't even be bothered to attend most home games. Think he's only been to about 4 or 5 since he's been here. Calum Chambers looked nowhere near ready prior to 2013/14, but Pochettino coached him into a good player. Koeman has been incapable or unwilling to do the same with some of the current crop. Might not be any ready made stars like Luke Shaw, but a few who could be solid squad players with the right guidance.

Agree with this. Pochettino and Adkins went to pretty much every U21 game when they were here, including long distance midweek away games. Koeman can't even be bothered to attend most home games. Think he's only been to about 4 or 5 since he's been here. Calum Chambers looked nowhere near ready prior to 2013/14, but Pochettino coached him into a good player. Koeman has been incapable or unwilling to do the same with some of the current crop. Might not be any ready made stars like Luke Shaw, but a few who could be solid squad players with the right guidance.

I was at Man City U21's vs. Saints U21's at the Ethiad in the March of Pochettino's last season at the club. There was already lots of speculation about his future and the game was played on a Monday night - two days after the seniors won at Crystal Palace and 5 days before our home game against Norwich. This was our team:

Johns, McCarthy, Targett, Gape, Stephens ©, Turnbull, Sinclair (Rowe 85mins), Reed, McQueen (Seager 73mins), Flannigan, Isgrove

The likes of Shaw, JWP and Chambers were already firmly a part of the first team set-up and Pochettino had already given first team minutes to Reed and Isgrove. For whatever reason he made the 8hr round trip to Manchester that evening to watch the U21's play. If I was an U21 player I'd have been delighted with that - knowing the first team Manager showed that sort of commitment to see me play and that he had a massive interest in seeing who could impress and earn a spot in his squad / team.

Can see what you mean by Van Dijk but Long should still score. He gets good contact on the ball. It's a sitter imo.

Long did well to out-jump Virgil. It was practically the only header he didn't win all game.

Why do we want to sell Bertrand ?

 

You're asking to sell our best players and get rid of the rubbish ? If we sell our best players then all we have left is rubbish .

70 million doesn't buy a competitive team so basically we will end up with another poor side

 

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I don't want to sell Bertrand, guy above mentioned it so I followed it through.

In an ideal world I'd love to keep all three players and add more quality.

I was at Man City U21's vs. Saints U21's at the Ethiad in the March of Pochettino's last season at the club. There was already lots of speculation about his future and the game was played on a Monday night - two days after the seniors won at Crystal Palace and 5 days before our home game against Norwich. This was our team:

 

 

 

The likes of Shaw, JWP and Chambers were already firmly a part of the first team set-up and Pochettino had already given first team minutes to Reed and Isgrove. For whatever reason he made the 8hr round trip to Manchester that evening to watch the U21's play. If I was an U21 player I'd have been delighted with that - knowing the first team Manager showed that sort of commitment to see me play and that he had a massive interest in seeing who could impress and earn a spot in his squad / team.

Yep remember the Man City story. Also gone, it seems, is regular training with the first team squad: just because the youngsters aren't necessarily ready to start shouldn't preclude this kind of interaction.

Why were we able to beat Arsenal so convincingly? Same players largely. It's down to formation and tactics. Whether it is Koeman himself or his advisors, there are some really, really bad mistakes being made before the players walk onto the pitch.

Arsenal were absolutely dreadful, which helped quite a bit.

If it were as bad as you say I couldn't see the club standing for it.

I can vouch that Allsorts is reporting back very accurately

5 at the back in the FA Cup at home?!?!? WTF was that all about? And with Yoshida, a player low on confidence and lacking games in a formation he's not used to, it was only going to spell disaster.

 

My Wife dubbed Targett with the name 'Off' as so many times he couldn't find a Saints player and his crosses into the box were awful. And he got skinned so many times it was pitiful. The only bright light in defence was Martina who I thought played really well and showed some real intent.

 

Mane is now hopeless. IF anyone is prepared to pay upwards of £8m for him I would bite their hands off. Long was handed scraps by a dysfunctional midfield - you could see him get more and more frustrated from early in the game.

 

Overall, our attack is so laboured and predictable - no balls through the channels - hardly anyone has the courage or skill to shoot. The only player to have a go like that was Romeu - a defensive midfielder.

 

Make no mistake, we are witnessing relegation form. I just hope the club invest in some much needed talent this window or we'll be sucked into the mire over the next 2-3 games.

Agree with this. But the worst thing is the distinct lack of morale and team-ness. They look like a bunch of individuals who don't give a toss for each other.

Targett is so shockingly adrift it's laughable. In that period of okay play in the first half we had two corners which he blasted straight into touch. Unforgivable. His positional awareness was atrocious and he was skinned a lot. Was this Koeman's way of showing that the academy are way off? If so it's cynical and another reason why he's lost it.

Long was appalling, but not served well. Mane never shoots but at least looked a threat. Yoshida is not up to it at all. VVD was excellent, and hard to beat in the air. Clasie was a bit too neat and namby pamby for this league. I'm guessing Wanyama not being near the team means he's off. Ward Prowse showed the kind of delivery, for once, that we are missing, with some pin-point corners and a free kick which was saved by their (excellent) keeper. And at least we had a bit of zip for the last 10. But why so late? Why such a weird selection? Why is there so much lacking in team spirit and atmosphere? Even the goalies warming up before the game all looked like they couldn't wait to get home for their supper. And Stekkers seems a bit of an invisible keeper to me.

All in all, it was a depressing afternoon in the rain. Is Koeman now hoping to get sacked? Why else is this clearly good manager getting it all so wrong and being upstaged by Pardew? Or is this what happens? We lure good managers who are beyond our payscale and get so frustrated by our position that they agitate for a move to a new club where they can perform (Poch). It feels like a pattern, as some of us were moaning about Poch's lack of plan b when that got similarly dreary. And look at him now. (sort of)

I took my 9 year old boy yesterday and his mate and they were puzzled why we can't play like we do against big teams against the smaller ones. I had no answer.

I can vouch that Allsorts is reporting back very accurately

Then Koeman has to go.

He has undone everything that Cortese, Adkins and Pochettino worked so hard to put in place.

Then Koeman has to go.

 

He has undone everything that Cortese, Adkins and Pochettino worked so hard to put in place.

Koeman has qualities and up to now I have been hoping he would sign an extension but his attitude of arrogance or ambivalence towards the U21s is unacceptable. If Allsorts is giving us factual info, and I believe he is, then imo Koeman should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Koeman has qualities and up to now I have been hoping he would sign an extension but his attitude of arrogance or ambivalence towards the U21s is unacceptable. If Allsorts is giving us factual info, and I believe he is, then imo Koeman should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Behave, you mean he won't pick Gallagher? I respect you a lot but you don't seem to have the finger on the button recently.

Koeman has qualities and up to now I have been hoping he would sign an extension but his attitude of arrogance or ambivalence towards the U21s is unacceptable. If Allsorts is giving us factual info, and I believe he is, then imo Koeman should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Although it is clear the U21 players that aren't already in the side aren't PL quality now.

Is that Koeman'a fault or the Hunter/Reed setups?

Koeman has qualities and up to now I have been hoping he would sign an extension but his attitude of arrogance or ambivalence towards the U21s is unacceptable. If Allsorts is giving us factual info, and I believe he is, then imo Koeman should be replaced sooner rather than later.

How does anyone on here know what are detailed training methods are?

And those that do, can they explain how they have changed from our record league finish in the last 30 years of last season?

Koeman has qualities and up to now I have been hoping he would sign an extension but his attitude of arrogance or ambivalence towards the U21s is unacceptable. If Allsorts is giving us factual info, and I believe he is, then imo Koeman should be replaced sooner rather than later.

This is surprising as he was widely acclaimed for working with, and bringing youngsters through at Feyenoord.

Perhaps the question is whether his "attitude" towards the U21's is more to do with the management and personnel involved in it, (be it Reed or Hunter) rather than the players. Or perhaps he genuinely feels the players at that level are not up to making the step up.

If there is a conflict on this scale, then I can only see one outcome, and it won't be the 5 year contract on another thread.

Although it is clear the U21 players that aren't already in the side aren't PL quality now.

 

I think some people are suggesting that Pochettino was good at turning "U21 players that aren't premier league quality" into U21 players that *are* premier league quality, the inference being that Koeman doesn't seem able and/or willing to divert effort into such conversions.

I'm undecided, but there is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that Koeman expects the U21 players to be of "premier league quality" without his, and his coaching team's, intervention in the transformation process.

I think some people are suggesting that Pochettino was good at turning "U21 players that aren't premier league quality" into U21 players that *are* premier league quality, the inference being that Koeman doesn't seem able and/or willing to divert effort into such conversions.

 

I'm undecided, but there is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that Koeman expects the U21 players to be of "premier league quality" without his, and his coaching team's, intervention in the transformation process.

Good point! If he isn't willing to help their development, he may need to alter his mentality if he wants to remain manager. It is such an important piece of the fabric of our club, discarding all responsibility will not go down well! Conversely, if he plays a major role from now on and provides the spark needed to get them to Prem level, his own standing would be majorly enhanced! Guess we will find out shortly

Also pretty obvious FF or someone close to him has a personal link to Gallagher, so he probably does have some info that wouldnt be in the public domain, albeit from a very particular perspective.

Foolish to ignore that.

I remember Chambers having a few wobbly games before starting to ask questions of Clyne.

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I think you are rewriting history to suit your argueMent. He looked at home from the first minute of his first game. Physically and mentally he looked not only string enough to play, but actually to offer something positive to the side.

Koeman was at the midweek U21 game!....not sure how many so far he has attended but no doubt he was checking on Fraser and hoping there might be be an u**** diamond amongst the current crop of U21's.

Now i'm as hard core Saints as it gets but i'm honest enough to see and say we do not have anyone who could make a difference to the first team. Young Harrison Read and Matt Target are the only ones that i would consider as possible first team squad players.

We need to buy a quality striker because i honestly cannot see Seager or Gallagher making the step up and those shouting their names for them to play i can only assume have not seen them play and shout out of desperation.

I cant believe that Koeman would delibaretly ignore the U21 setup but rather he has seen whats on offer at present and is honest enough to say the conveyor belt has stopped.....at this present time.

The question regarding the quality of our under 21's is, by reading various accounts up for great debate but to suggest he is sacked

on the basis of a forum fans reviews a bit off.

I suggest we trust our board to make the correct decision however hard that may be for some