Saints Transfers Thread - Deadline Day

Playing devils advocate here, if he was at say West Brom, would you want us to go out and buy him and for how much?

Exactly, of course not!

Playing devils advocate here, if he was at say West Brom, would you want us to go out and buy him and for how much?

Would you have swapped him for Jay Rod?

Or taken him as part of that deal, let's say Jay Rod = JWP + £2m, on the basis the goal scorer is always more valuable.

And I think he is the perfect profile of footballer that we look to buy. Young, right attitude, capable with room for improvement, and not on the radar of the big clubs, so wont cost you £35m+

Playing devils advocate here, if he was at say West Brom, would you want us to go out and buy him and for how much?

Certainly not

Playing devils advocate here, if he was at say West Brom, would you want us to go out and buy him and for how much?

Like that Saido geezer everyone wanted us to sign?

I'm sure there's a JWP specific thread.

I'm not a great fan of his, but to say he doesn't "get football" is just complete & utter nonsense. He reads the game incredibly well for a youngish player,tactically he's sound and his technique is really good . My doubts are that he's one paced, pretty slow, and he's not physically strong enough. There were signs last year that he's getting there, so this season will be interesting.

 

 

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Technically, he's very good, and in a central role - and more responsibility - with the u21s this summer he showed a lovely range of incisive passing that we don't see enough of from him in a Saints shirt.

His weaknesses are all physical. I can't think of a slower midfielder. Gareth Barry and Michael Carrick have proven you don't need great pace to succeed in a central role in the Premier League, but Prowse doesn't have anywhere near their physicality. And without that ability to use his body to win/shield the ball, he's a bit of a sitting duck in the middle.

Which is a great shame as he should be dictating games from the centre of the park, but instead has to be shoe-horned further forward, out wide or in the 10, where the limitations of his mobility are even more starkly exposed.

It's pretty telling that he's played 150 odd games (including internationals), under four or five different managers, and still no-one is any the wiser what his best position is because he's compromised in every role.

And so Pellegrino will no doubt continue the cycle of flipping him from one role to another, from starter to substitute, hoping that he'll finally settle somewhere and excel.

But until he can develop the physical attributes to play in the double pivot in men's football, as he did in u21's football, I think the debate will continue as to whether he's actually any good or not.

As someone suggested earlier, I don't think we'd have any interest in signing him if he were a West Brom player. Which isn't to say he's appalling. Just too often underwhelming at present.

I hope this year will be his "breakout" season and all of us unbelievers can tearfully repent, shamed by being on the wrong side of history, but I won't bet the farm on it.

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People forget just how young Ward-Prowse is and how much top league experience he has already got for someone his age. When Lallana was Ward-Prowse's current age he hadn't played a single minute in the Premier League, let alone for a top 8 team!

Ward-Prowse has played in 137 Premier League games at a young age, how many other players his age have that much exposure to playing for a top 8 PL team? It is a tiny number. He hasn't fluked it, he has deserved it.

People forget just how young Ward-Prowse is and how much top league experience he has already got for someone his age. When Lallana was Ward-Prowse's current age he hadn't played a single minute in the Premier League, let alone for a top 8 team!

 

Ward-Prowse has played in 137 Premier League games at a young age, how many other players his age have that much exposure to playing for a top 8 PL team? It is a tiny number. He hasn't fluked it, he has deserved it.

For once you speak sense and make the point well. JWP is a decent player and for his age one of the best. Whether he still is in 2-3 years is the question no one can answer just time itself. I like him and his technique is great and hopefully with a bit of freedom given to him agead of Oriel and Lemina he can shine. Thats his best role to mould into.

a vocal minority on an internet football forum forget just how young Ward-Prowse is and how much top league experience he has already got for someone his age. When Lallana was Ward-Prowse's current age he hadn't played a single minute in the Premier League, let alone for a top 8 team!

 

Ward-Prowse has played in 137 Premier League games at a young age, how many other players his age have that much exposure to playing for a top 8 PL team? It is a tiny number. He hasn't fluked it, he has deserved it.

Tweaked it for you

That's a more balanced appraisal.

 

Technically, he's very good, and in a central role - and more responsibility - with the u21s this summer he showed a lovely range of incisive passing that we don't see enough of from him in a Saints shirt.

 

His weaknesses are all physical. I can't think of a slower midfielder. Gareth Barry and Michael Carrick have proven you don't need great pace to succeed in a central role in the Premier League, but Prowse doesn't have anywhere near their physicality. And without that ability to use his body to win/shield the ball, he's a bit of a sitting duck in the middle.

 

Which is a great shame as he should be dictating games from the centre of the park, but instead has to be shoe-horned further forward, out wide or in the 10, where the limitations of his mobility are even more starkly exposed.

 

It's pretty telling that he's played 150 odd games (including internationals), under four or five different managers, and still no-one is any the wiser what his best position is because he's compromised in every role.

 

And so Pellegrino will no doubt continue the cycle of flipping him from one role to another, from starter to substitute, hoping that he'll finally settle somewhere and excel.

 

But until he can develop the physical attributes to play in the double pivot in men's football, as he did in u21's football, I think the debate will continue as to whether he's actually any good or not.

 

As someone suggested earlier, I don't think we'd have any interest in signing him if he were a West Brom player. Which isn't to say he's appalling. Just too often underwhelming at present.

 

I hope this year will be his "breakout" season and all of us unbelievers can tearfully repent, shamed by being on the wrong side of history, but I won't bet the farm on it.

 

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Summer transfer targets thread spends ages talking about a player we already have shock

Opinions and arseholes... but it seriously must be those underfunded in the IQ department that have to resort to insults on difference of opinions. Lol

And for the record, for all of those out there that think jwp is going to miraculously gain muscle, pick up Olympic standard pace and set the premier league alight this year! "His year" (AGAIN)There's equally the same number if not more who wouldn't have him in the starting line up. Game of opinions, everyone entitled to theirs.

And for the record, for all of those out there that think jwp is going to miraculously gain muscle, pick up Olympic standard pace and set the premier league alight this year! "His year" (AGAIN)There's equally the same number if not more who wouldn't have him in the starting line up. Game of opinions, everyone entitled to theirs.

Yeah but there's a difference between saying the young lad wouldn't get into a top 8 for 4 season's bpl side consistently and calling one of last season's fairly good first team players rubbish and saying he doesn't get football. Don't know if these people support other teams, don't watch saint's play or are just trying to wind people up.

He doesn't need muscle, I do not get the fascination with physical attributes people have in this country. You still need people that can actually pick a pass, control under pressure etc. As long as he puts the work rate in and can last the 90 doing that then that is most important physical attribute for a centre-mid, which he has, excellent work rate and fitness.

I'm also not sure where this slowness comes from either, he's not the fastest but calling him the slowest midfielder in the league is pretty weird.

Finally there are opinions based on sound reasoning, logic, supported by stats, then there are opinions that are clearly based on ignorance and very little else, the later doesn't need any debating because there is no point arguing with stupid, they speak for themselves and get instantly dismissed.

If you look at whoscored.com I think they sum him pretty well -

James Ward-Prowse Characteristics

+ Strengths

Taking set-pieces

Very Strong

Crossing

Strong

Holding on to the ball

Strong

Key passes

Strong

Concentration

Strong

- Weaknesses

Aerial Duels

Weak

Finishing

Weak

Tackling

Weak

That last point is a key one for me, concentration, Ward-Prowse is an intelligent footballer, reads the game well and positions himself well, another massively overlooked ability these days, again over fascination with pace and strength, an example being Sterling who as far as I can tell is pretty terrible on the mental side of his game, but hey he runs fast in a straight line so that is great yeh?

JWP needs to improve his finishing and movement into the box and he'll develop into a top attacking centre-mid IMO.

Need a striker after what we saw today. With Lemina and VVD/new centre half we've got the makings of a reasonable team

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Need a striker after what we saw today. With Lemina and VVD/new centre half we've got the makings of a reasonable team

 

 

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Not sure we will get a striker of sufficient quality to displace Gabbi. We could do with a goal scoring midfielder to replace JWP. Someone like Armstrong from Celtic would be ideal I think.

Not sure we will get a striker of sufficient quality to displace Gabbi. We could do with a goal scoring midfielder to replace JWP. Someone like Armstrong from Celtic would be ideal I think.

Armstrong...seriously?

Armstrong...seriously?

He's got a decent enough scoring record from midfield, certainly superior to JWP and Davis when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net. I mean obviously I'd like us to sign Sigurdsson, he'd be perfect for us, but it isn't going to happen. My point is more that we could do with a no.10 with more goal threat. Doesn't have to be Armstrong but it looks as though he's available and seems the kind of player we might go for.

Gabbiadini isn't the issue, we aren't creating chances for him.

Need a striker after what we saw today. With Lemina and VVD/new centre half we've got the makings of a reasonable team

 

 

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It's not strikers that are the problem with Gabbi and Austin fit, it's the lack of goals from the five players behind them and in front of the back four.

It's not strikers that are the problem with Gabbi and Austin fit, it's the lack of goals from the five players behind them and in front of the back four.

Exactly. If even 2 of the clear cut chances we had today had fallen to Gabbi or Austin we'd have won, they didn't and our misfiring midfield and defenders weren't up to it. Gabbi and Austin had half chances at best.

It's not strikers that are the problem with Gabbi and Austin fit, it's the lack of goals from the five players behind them and in front of the back four.

Yes but Gabbiadini was hopelessly isolated today, weirdly doesn't seem to have a link with the players around him, and it got worse when he was replaced by the statue that is Charlie Austin. Need to get rid of Long and go for someone else.

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Yes but Gabbiadini was hopelessly isolated today, weirdly doesn't seem to have a link with the players around him, and it got worse when he was replaced by the statue that is Charlie Austin. Need to get rid of Long and go for someone else.

 

 

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But if we don't have a link between the midfield and the striker then why is buying a new striker going to change that? How about we buy the link player and keep the two good strikers we already own?

Gabbiadini isn't the issue, we aren't creating chances for him.

Luciano Vietto has been at staplewood this week

Is he planning on hanging around?

Luciano Vietto has been at staplewood this week

This would be good if true. Surely means Long out assuming it's a permanent deal?

Im not usually in the know at all but we want loan deal and they want a permanent fee for the player also Burnley want Shane Long

We haven't exactly spent buckets this window. Sign Vietto up permanent. He's a quality player and still very young!

I have a fear of loan deals (with option to buy) after the Alderweireld fiasco. Just secure the player before everyone wants their signature.

Luciano Vietto has been at staplewood this week

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Yes but Gabbiadini was hopelessly isolated today, weirdly doesn't seem to have a link with the players around him, and it got worse when he was replaced by the statue that is Charlie Austin. Need to get rid of Long and go for someone else.

 

 

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Gabbiadini just didn't get much service from players like Tadic, Redmond and the overlapping full backs. Another thing which seemed to hinder him was JWP (obviously under instruction) often hurtling into the box to take up a "de-facto" striker's position, which had the effect of crowding out Gabbi's space. I think Gabbiadini will be fine once things settle and he will score a bag of goals.

Yes but Gabbiadini was hopelessly isolated today, weirdly doesn't seem to have a link with the players around him, and it got worse when he was replaced by the statue that is Charlie Austin. Need to get rid of Long and go for someone else.

 

 

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Exactly

Yes but Gabbiadini was hopelessly isolated today, weirdly doesn't seem to have a link with the players around him, and it got worse when he was replaced by the statue that is Charlie Austin. Need to get rid of Long and go for someone else.

 

 

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Gabbiadini likes to play on the shoulder of centre halves, spinning off into the space behind them. For him to be effective, we need someone in the no 10 position playing those clever passes between defenders. Tadic can, but not when out wide, and Davis can, but he's playing deeper at the moment. I like JWP but he doesn't see that type of pass quickly enough & Boufal never gets enough time in that role for us to know if he could do it. Maybe if Davis pushes forward with Lemina in next to Romeu we may see Manolo get more of the service he needs. His movement seemed better than it did following his injury at the end of last season, it's just the ball never arrived when he did make a run.

Maybe Vietto would be an option as the no 10 too?

Gabbiadini just didn't get much service from players like Tadic, Redmond and the overlapping full backs. Another thing which seemed to hinder him was JWP (obviously under instruction) often hurtling into the box to take up a "de-facto" striker's position, which had the effect of crowding out Gabbi's space. I think Gabbiadini will be fine once things settle and he will score a bag of goals.

Nonsense. Gabbiadini's movement makes space for the likes of Tadic and JWP to get on the end of things in the box, which happened yesterday.

There was nothing wrong tactically, it was just bad finishing. Or rather, it was the level of finishing that we can reasonably expect from that team of players, most of whom have proven over a reasonable period to be poor finishers.

Like I said in the other thread, our biggest culprit last season for missing chances was Tadic, basically missed 4 sitters and missed another yesterday (why the f he went for that with his right foot when he;s left footed I don't know). Bit of an enigma Tadic because he creates a lot of chances as well but is wasting clear cut ones.

Good to see JWP bursting late into the box, I reckon he'll get more goals this year.

Agree it's not Gabbi that's the problem, but my issue was with Redmond. OK he had a decent shot on target, but largely went missing for the 2nd half. Tactically we are just too predictable in the final third...mostly everything goes out to the wing...no triangulated passes to cut through centrally, for example like the lovely move that had the pass from Davis for Gabbis goal in the last friendly.

Nonsense. Gabbiadini's movement makes space for the likes of Tadic and JWP to get on the end of things in the box, which happened yesterday.

 

There was nothing wrong tactically, it was just bad finishing. Or rather, it was the level of finishing that we can reasonably expect from that team of players, most of whom have proven over a reasonable period to be poor finishers.

My point is I don't think it should be Tadic and Ward-Prowse getting on the end of things in the box - neither of them have a shred of clinical finish, particularly Ward-Prowse who doesn't play the wide right, attacking mid or 10 role with any conviction. We need Gabbiadini getting on the end of things in the box, (or Austin) from passes and movement from the FBs, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond or even JWP.

Shout out to my bro supersaint our favourite GOAL scoring ATTACKING MIDFIELDER #ziyech scored for Ajax in their loss yesterday.

Apparently he is Roma's back up if they don't get Mahrez from Leicester.

Come on Les its been 3 summer transfer windows now from his days at Twente, he has european experience and scores goals for fun.

Shout out to my bro supersaint our favourite GOAL scoring ATTACKING MIDFIELDER #ziyech scored for Ajax in their loss yesterday.

 

Apparently he is Roma's back up if they don't get Mahrez from Leicester.

 

Come on Les its been 3 summer transfer windows now from his days at Twente, he has european experience and scores goals for fun.

I don't know why Les didn't listen to us, mate.

We haven't exactly spent buckets this window. Sign Vietto up permanent. He's a quality player and still very young!

 

I have a fear of loan deals (with option to buy) after the Alderweireld fiasco. Just secure the player before everyone wants their signature.

According to Wikipedia he's 5'8 - looks a bit lightweight from the below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVanyDo0Os

Monaco and Sampdoria after him according to Di Marzio.

 

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To buy, or loan ?

Just get that Icelandic winger in job done

I wonder who we are still looking at bringing in?

WR - Vietto/Karamoh?

Another CB - Wimmer/Sanchez?

I wonder who we are still looking at bringing in?

 

WR - Vietto/Karamoh?

Another CB - Wimmer/Sanchez?

Yes, and maybe a keeper.

I wonder who we are still looking at bringing in?

 

WR - Vietto/Karamoh?

Another CB - Wimmer/Sanchez?

He is being linked with a £35m move to Spurs.

I very much doubt we'll sign another centre back unless van Dijk leaves. The club probably intend the main pairing to be van Dijk and Stephens once the window closes.

Yes, and maybe a keeper.

We won't be signing another keeper. We have 3 senior keepers for the 1st team squad of 25. Why would we sign a 4th? Forster will be number one, you may not like ti, but it won't change.

He is being linked with a £35m move to Spurs.

 

I very much doubt we'll sign another centre back unless van Dijk leaves. The club probably intend the main pairing to be van Dijk and Stephens once the window closes.

 

 

 

We won't be signing another keeper. We have 3 senior keepers for the 1st team squad of 25. Why would we sign a 4th? Forster will be number one, you may not like ti, but it won't change.

Out of Forster, McCarthy, Gazzaniga and Taylor - McCarthy is injured, Gazzaniga is off to Spurs and Taylor isn't good enough for the bench. So I would say that a goalkeeper (presumably on a loan, like we did with Hassen) is a priority for us.

He is being linked with a £35m move to Spurs.

 

I very much doubt we'll sign another centre back unless van Dijk leaves. The club probably intend the main pairing to be van Dijk and Stephens once the window closes.

 

 

 

We won't be signing another keeper. We have 3 senior keepers for the 1st team squad of 25. Why would we sign a 4th? Forster will be number one, you may not like ti, but it won't change.

We had a keeper on trial a few weeks back. Why would we do that if we weren't looking for another keeper? We will get one I think if Gazzaniga leaves.

Out of Forster, McCarthy, Gazzaniga and Taylor - McCarthy is permanently injured, Gazzaniga is off to Spurs and Taylor isn't good enough for the bench. So I would say that a goalkeeper (presumably on a loan, like we did with Hassen) is a priority for us.

Corrected for you. On top of a GK we also need a first choice CB, unless VVD gets his head out of his arse (which is unlikely I think).

 

We won't be signing another keeper. We have 3 senior keepers for the 1st team squad of 25. Why would we sign a 4th? Forster will be number one, you may not like ti, but it won't change.

I'm content with Forster, but if McCarthy isn't coming back any time soon and Gazzaniga goes to Spurs then we will likely bring in a keeper, whether it is on loan or otherwise.

We had a keeper on trial a few weeks back.

Lukas Raeder - http://readbundesliga.com/2017/08/08/dortmund-join-newcastle-race-former-bayern-keeper/

Loan offer made for goalkeeper.

 

In discussions with three CB's to replace VVD. Only one will be signed.

 

Another loan offer with option to buy made for an attacking player.

 

Will be 4 signings before end of window apparently. Three expected to go out. VVD, Gazzaniga (although might change if we don't secure a loan) and one other.

Any updates on any of these, Tom?