The Time To Start Worrying......

Is when we have a squad full of players that no one else is interested in.

Due to scouting system, the black box, the Southampton way, luck, Les Reed, MP, Koeman or who or whatever, that is not the case and the big teams want our players.

As frustrating as it, it is genuinely a sign of success and the fact that we continue to show year on year improvement, is incredible and testament to the club and staff behind the scenes.

Once you get your head round the fact that the club has to be self funding, that players would rather play for a Liverpool than a Southampton and earn twice as much money, then it becomes slightly more palatable, when these players leave. In fact, it becomes almost a necessity for the club to grow, as long as the money is spent well and to date our track record is excellent in that department.

Is when we have a squad full of players that no one else is interested in.

 

Due to scouting system, the black box, the Southampton way, luck, Les Reed, MP, Koeman or who or whatever, that is not the case and the big teams want our players.

 

As frustrating as it, it is genuinely a sign of success and the fact that we continue to show year on year improvement, is incredible and testament to the club and staff behind the scenes.

 

Once you get your head round the fact that the club has to be self funding, that players would rather play for a Liverpool than a Southampton and earn twice as much money, then it becomes slightly more palatable, when these players leave. In fact, it becomes almost a necessity for the club to grow, as long as the money is spent well and to date our track record is excellent in that department.

This is spot on

Don't you go talking sense now...remember where you are!

Can we ditch the black box crap? Its just a room with a video projector in it and a link to a laptop. Whats on the laptop is database of potential players and managers. What puts that data in are human scouts. The clever part is making sure you have the right scouts and can interpet the information available.

Is when we have a squad full of players that no one else is interested in.

 

Due to scouting system, the black box, the Southampton way, luck, Les Reed, MP, Koeman or who or whatever, that is not the case and the big teams want our players.

 

As frustrating as it, it is genuinely a sign of success and the fact that we continue to show year on year improvement, is incredible and testament to the club and staff behind the scenes.

 

Once you get your head round the fact that the club has to be self funding, that players would rather play for a Liverpool than a Southampton and earn twice as much money, then it becomes slightly more palatable, when these players leave. In fact, it becomes almost a necessity for the club to grow, as long as the money is spent well and to date our track record is excellent in that department.

Yes!

It's annoying when players leave, but there is f**k all loyalty now and unless we suddenly become Man Utd overnight (do we even WANT that??) then we'll always be a stepping stone to finding new players to blood in a very difficult league and then sell on for a profit.

Suits me, after all we support the club not the players. I'm sure that's been said plenty of times too?

No the time to start worrying is when the club starts cashing in early, whilst making a rival stronger, rather than keeping the playing asset and team quality for another season and losing money at a later date.

That's a club being run for profit and business success not football success.

We had no real reason to sell Mane this year, especially as Liverpool had clearly not met the asking price (with our strong stance on that lasting barely a week) so the only reason to sell him this year was profit.

No the time to start worrying is when the club starts cashing in early, whilst making a rival stronger, rather than keeping the playing asset and team quality for another season and losing money at a later date.

 

That's a club being run for profit and business success not football success.

 

We had no real reason to sell Mane this year, especially as Liverpool had clearly not met the asking price (with our strong stance on that lasting barely a week) so the only reason to sell him this year was profit.

Selling him this summer rather than next is probably worth about 15 million extra to us. So more than what we paid for Mane in the first place

Can we ditch the black box crap? Its just a room with a video projector in it and a link to a laptop. Whats on the laptop is database of potential players and managers. What puts that data in are human scouts. The clever part is making sure you have the right scouts and can interpet the information available.

Yes but the scouts need a system to input their data into...

.That's a club being run for profit and business success not football success.

 

We had no real reason to sell Mane this year, especially as Liverpool had clearly not met the asking price (with our strong stance on that lasting barely a week) so the only reason to sell him this year was profit.

Show me the profit ............

In the first year back in the Premier League. Cortese took a loan out against future ticket & season tickets sales. Given that comes to around 12million, we can probably guess that the loan wasn't much bigger than that. The second year he took a larger loan out based on all income including television rights and there was a charge against every asset, fixture, fitting, player, stadium, training ground, houses etc. etc. The signatories on the loans, was Gareth Rodgers and I think from memory (I could be wrong) Cortese as well (These documents are available from Companies house for two pounds each). Both Charges have now been settled, so there is no debt outside of the Directors loans from Katrina, which I think the last set of accounts showed as 60 million ( Someone on here will have the exact figure)

So since the family took over (And including the initial purchase price) as of the last set of accounts, it looks like we are 60 million down. Given that includes around 40 million on the training ground. That is pretty incredible. Additionally what will be interesting is to see how much of the 60 million has now been paid off from the players sales (Which I think will include, Lallana, Lovern etc) when the next set of accounts is released. But...... with the new TV money (And I could be way off here) and potential player sales of Wayanama and possibly Mane, there could be a completely clean balance sheet and all debts settled. That would simply be incredible, from the standing start of minus ten points in league one, to a top Premier league club, playing in Europe. I couldn't even guess at the value of the squad let alone what the whole club is worth now, but as an asset it must be one of, if not the biggest in Katrina's portfolio. The club will absolutely have to be self funding and probably has for the last couple of years, so that shouldn't bother people, but at that point in which debts are settled, I don't think you will see Katrina repeating loans and investments to tune of what she has done historically.

Additionally worth noting that Cortese is on record as sneering and laughing at the clubs who took the types of loans that he did. in fact he even said he would never do it..... but he did in very first year back in the prem.

Me, I am more than happy to sell a player to fund further progress. However, I would like it to be limited to ONE per season at the £25-35m bracket. I know the situation with VW meant he best go, but that means that with Mané, that is 2 key players gone. You might add Pellè to that and say it could be 3 key players (plus anyone else) although you might also say Pellè isn't a key player.

And Bertrand next

Selling him this summer rather than next is probably worth about 15 million extra to us. So more than what we paid for Mane in the first place

And if he kicked on again next season and scored 20 goals do you think that would be worth £15 million?

Or won us a trophy? Would that be worth £15 million?

Do you think our £15 million will look good if Mane propels Liverpool into the Champions league? Do you think they will care how much they paid for him?

And if he kicked on again next season and scored 20 goals do you think that would be worth £15 million?

 

Or won us a trophy? Would that be worth £15 million?

 

Do you think our £15 million will look good if Mane propels Liverpool into the Champions league? Do you think they will care how much they paid for him?

Lot of "If`s" there mate..

He may have scored less goals, he may have won us nothing and he may help Liverpool to nothing...

Show me the profit ............

 

In the first year back in the Premier League. Cortese took a loan out against future ticket & season tickets sales. Given that comes to around 12million, we can probably guess that the loan wasn't much bigger than that. The second year he took a larger loan out based on all income including television rights and there was a charge against every asset, fixture, fitting, player, stadium, training ground, houses etc. etc. The signatories on the loans, was Gareth Rodgers and I think from memory (I could be wrong) Cortese as well (These documents are available from Companies house for two pounds each). Both Charges have now been settled, so there is no debt outside of the Directors loans from Katrina, which I think the last set of accounts showed as 60 million ( Someone on here will have the exact figure)

 

So since the family took over (And including the initial purchase price) as of the last set of accounts, it looks like we are 60 million down. Given that includes around 40 million on the training ground. That is pretty incredible. Additionally what will be interesting is to see how much of the 60 million has now been paid off from the players sales (Which I think will include, Lallana, Lovern etc) when the next set of accounts is released. But...... with the new TV money (And I could be way off here) and potential player sales of Wayanama and possibly Mane, there could be a completely clean balance sheet and all debts settled. That would simply be incredible, from the standing start of minus ten points in league one, to a top Premier league club, playing in Europe. I couldn't even guess at the value of the squad let alone what the whole club is worth now, but as an asset it must be one of, if not the biggest in Katrina's portfolio. The club will absolutely have to be self funding and probably has for the last couple of years, so that shouldn't bother people, but at that point in which debts are settled, I don't think you will see Katrina repeating loans and investments to tune of what she has done historically.

 

Additionally worth noting that Cortese is on record as sneering and laughing at the clubs who took the types of loans that he did. in fact he even said he would never do it..... but he did in very first year back in the prem.

Companies House documents are now free to view using their BETA site. I agree with this post but with the new TV deal we should be looking to grow the club and not be a feeder club to Liverpool!

And if he kicked on again next season and scored 20 goals do you think that would be worth £15 million?

 

Or won us a trophy? Would that be worth £15 million?

 

Do you think our £15 million will look good if Mane propels Liverpool into the Champions league? Do you think they will care how much they paid for him?

If Mane ruptures an ACL......

And if he kicked on again next season and scored 20 goals do you think that would be worth £15 million?

 

Or won us a trophy? Would that be worth £15 million?

 

Do you think our £15 million will look good if Mane propels Liverpool into the Champions league? Do you think they will care how much they paid for him?

If. If. If. What "if" we sign a replacement for 15 million that scores 15 goals next season and helps us win a trophy? That's the whole point, the club back themselves and their scouts to find the right replacements. Lovren went, we got Toby who was better. Lallana went and we got Tadic AND Mane for the money, both of whom are better. We haven't always got it right, but we've certainly got it right more often than wrong, and that's why we consistently improve and finish above Liverpool despite them 'raiding' us.

Lot of "If`s" there mate..

 

He may have scored less goals, he may have won us nothing and he may help Liverpool to nothing...

Top insight there.

It's simply this - Is our squad better with Mane in it for another year, or without him and an extra £15 million?

I think it's the former.

If we actually spend more than our sales for once and then I might change my opinion on the sale, but currently it's looking like a very short sighted and profit centric transfer.

If Mane ruptures an ACL......

The point being if you get an offer of 36m and make 25m on that player having lost one of you best strikers for 2 seasons do you really turn that down?

Top insight there.

 

It's simply this - Is our squad better with Mane in it for another year, or without him and an extra £15 million?

 

I think it's the former.

 

If we actually spend more than our sales for once and then I might change my opinion on the sale, but currently it's looking like a very short sighted and profit centric transfer.

There's no way to know yet. We might do what we did with the Lallana money when we got Tadic and Mane and end up with new players who improve the squad.

Is when we have a squad full of players that no one else is interested in.

 

Due to scouting system, the black box, the Southampton way, luck, Les Reed, MP, Koeman or who or whatever, that is not the case and the big teams want our players.

 

As frustrating as it, it is genuinely a sign of success and the fact that we continue to show year on year improvement, is incredible and testament to the club and staff behind the scenes.

 

Once you get your head round the fact that the club has to be self funding, that players would rather play for a Liverpool than a Southampton and earn twice as much money, then it becomes slightly more palatable, when these players leave. In fact, it becomes almost a necessity for the club to grow, as long as the money is spent well and to date our track record is excellent in that department.

I refuse to believe we need to sell Mane to be self funding, on the back of the biggest TV football deal in history.

Can we ditch the black box crap? Its just a room with a video projector in it and a link to a laptop. Whats on the laptop is database of potential players and managers. What puts that data in are human scouts. The clever part is making sure you have the right scouts and can interpet the information available.

It's as if we are the only club in the league with a 'black box', and nobody else has thought of it. Poppycock.

I refuse to believe we need to sell Mane to be self funding, on the back of the biggest TV football deal in history.

I am not saying we do..... At all.

But we still have 60 million of debt, so I would suggest it is to service that.

Is when we have a squad full of players that no one else is interested in.

 

Due to scouting system, the black box, the Southampton way, luck, Les Reed, MP, Koeman or who or whatever, that is not the case and the big teams want our players.

 

As frustrating as it, it is genuinely a sign of success and the fact that we continue to show year on year improvement, is incredible and testament to the club and staff behind the scenes.

 

Once you get your head round the fact that the club has to be self funding, that players would rather play for a Liverpool than a Southampton and earn twice as much money, then it becomes slightly more palatable, when these players leave. In fact, it becomes almost a necessity for the club to grow, as long as the money is spent well and to date our track record is excellent in that department.

Of course a lot of bedwetters won't agree with you, but it seems like every year we have a summer sell-off ( I said sell - not sale)....we just get better and better.....

Time to worry was when we were in league one with a negative points tally.

Can we ditch the black box crap? Its just a room with a video projector in it and a link to a laptop. Whats on the laptop is database of potential players and managers. What puts that data in are human scouts. The clever part is making sure you have the right scouts and can interpet the information available.

I don't think people want to write all that everytime they mention it though. That would be rather long winded. That's why it's been given a name.

Oh and while we're on the subject, can we ditch the football crap. It's 22 men running around a field trying to put a ball in a net. What puts that ball is in human players. The clever part is having the right players who can put it in there.

Time to worry was when we were in league one with a negative points tally.

Another positive is that when we are trying to attract either a manager or a decent young player we can point to where our alumni are. Rather than be ashamed of it, we should promote the stepping stone effect.

If you sign for us there is a good chance that in a few years you could end here....

Look at MP, Koeman, Bale, Shaw etc etc

We would surely be the first choice over other clubs. where have Stoke's signings ended up for example?

Of course a lot of bedwetters won't agree with you, but it seems like every year we have a summer sell-off ( I said sell - not sale)....we just get better and better.....

I can't argue with that. It just feels like a Russian Roulette policy.

Why the term bed-wetter? I'll still go to games and get behind the team for 90 minutes no matter what. Fed up of being labelled by terms like that just because I don't agree 100% with the way the club is run.

Can we ditch the black box crap? Its just a room with a video projector in it and a link to a laptop. Whats on the laptop is database of potential players and managers. What puts that data in are human scouts. The clever part is making sure you have the right scouts and can interpet the information available.

What do we replace it with? Les Read?

Forster

Cedric Fonte Van Dyke Bertrand

Classie Romeu

Long Davis Pelle Tadic

Bench: Stekelenburg, Targett, Martina, Gardos, Yoshida, Ward-Prowse, Rodriguez, Austin, Redmond

Just to illustrate a possible starting XI with 9 left over from which to choose a bench. Even before the money from selling Mané is spent there's a side packed with international players without either Mané or Wanyama. Time to worry not even on the horizon.

Forster

Cedric Fonte Van Dyke Bertrand

Classie Romeu

Long Davis Pelle Tadic

 

Bench: Stekelenburg, Targett, Martina, Gardos, Yoshida, Ward-Prowse, Rodriguez, Austin, Redmond

 

Just to illustrate a possible starting XI with 9 left over from which to choose a bench. Even before the money from selling Mané is spent there's a side packed with international players without either Mané or Wanyama. Time to worry not even on the horizon.

Pelle will be gone i believe

Lazio/juve will take him after tonight's performance

No the time to start worrying is when the club starts cashing in early, whilst making a rival stronger, rather than keeping the playing asset and team quality for another season and losing money at a later date.

 

That's a club being run for profit and business success not football success.

 

We had no real reason to sell Mane this year, especially as Liverpool had clearly not met the asking price (with our strong stance on that lasting barely a week) so the only reason to sell him this year was profit.

Very precise...... This is called cashing in and being dressed up as some kind player power....