View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    26 20.16%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    7 5.43%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.55%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    74 57.36%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    5 3.88%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    2 1.55%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 3.10%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.55%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    7 5.43%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #13901

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Brexit - enter at your own risk. How appropriate. Angry remoaners dominate the thread, shouting down any opinion on Brexit that runs counter to their side's agenda to thwart the democratic majority in the referendum. Most of the other brexiteers on here are just fed-up with the constant childish abuse, so they just can't be arsed any longer to post their opinions.

    Just look at yourselves. Just for using the adjective "endure" to describe my opinion of how I felt about the EU since Maastricht, I get all this abuse. It seems that Soggy and Sheaf Saint ought to consult a dictionary before assuming that I meant it to mean that it caused me great hardship, or to wonder why the citizens of the UK who felt the same didn't riot in the streets. Ridiculous and worthy of contempt. Shurlock his usual obnoxious, juvenile self, sinking to Jeff's depths, making it personal with assumptions about my family. I won't plumb those depths by retaliating in that vein. Jeff is on ignore, so he is p*ssing in the wind as far as I'm concerned.

    Anyway, all those leavers who have left this thread and the other ones concerning Brexit, I am joining them. Talk among yourselves. I can just have the occasional look in and have a good laugh at all of you in your little echo chamber.
    Morning Les. It’s a fact that there’s a generational divide to Brexit and parents and children take very different positions over it, so I was simply asking about your situation (after you claimed your support for Brexit was #allaboutthekids). No more no less.

    Try not to let torrid Tuesday turn into wretched Wednesday pal

  2. #13902

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    Just one point. Democracy means being able to reconsider. It is ridiculous to regard the referendum result as a perfect, never to be reconsidered measure of opinion.

    Situations change. Facts (and lies) come to light and these quite naturally change views. What was said and promised three years ago has been torn apart.

    We have a GE every 5 years (or 5 minutes the way things are going). We don't say you voted 5 years ago and it would be undemocratic to challenge that.

    And for the record on the generational thing, I'm an enlightened 70 year-old.

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  3. #13903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Just one point. Democracy means being able to reconsider. It is ridiculous to regard the referendum result as a perfect, never to be reconsidered measure of opinion.

    Situations change. Facts (and lies) come to light and these quite naturally change views. What was said and promised three years ago has been torn apart.

    We have a GE every 5 years (or 5 minutes the way things are going). We don't say you voted 5 years ago and it would be undemocratic to challenge that.

    And for the record on the generational thing, I'm an enlightened 70 year-old.

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    I didn't mean everyone Shroppie

  4. #13904

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    Boris Johnson’s suspension of the UK Parliament is unlawful, Scotland’s highest civil court has ruled.
    "The Court will accordingly make an Order declaring that the Prime Minister's advice to HM the Queen and the prorogation which followed thereon was unlawful and is thus null and of no effect."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855
    Last edited by badgerx16; 11-09-2019 at 09:42 AM.

  5. #13905

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Brexit - enter at your own risk. How appropriate. Angry remoaners dominate the thread, shouting down any opinion on Brexit that runs counter to their side's agenda to thwart the democratic majority in the referendum. Most of the other brexiteers on here are just fed-up with the constant childish abuse, so they just can't be arsed any longer to post their opinions.
    Do you read any of the posts from GM or Duckie, or for that matter most of those that you present ? Could it be that the Remainers might just be winning the debate ?

  6. #13906

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Yes it is. Democratic is honouring the first referendum vote before calling for a second one. HTH
    Would have already happened if all the Tories and other brexiters including Boris had got behind the withdrawal deal from the start.

    Why didn't he? Why didn't they? Brexit would be done. He didn't believe in Brexit whatever the cost then, he blocked brexit twice.

  7. #13907

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Boris Johnson’s suspension of the UK Parliament is unlawful, Scotland’s highest civil court has ruled.
    "The Court will accordingly make an Order declaring that the Prime Minister's advice to HM the Queen and the prorogation which followed thereon was unlawful and is thus null and of no effect."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855
    Will probably be overturned in the Supreme Court and I doubt the English action will succeed, as I imagine BJ has more friends amongst the judiciary south of the border.

    But highly amusing and satisfactory. I would love to see the opposition parties and Speaker reopen parliament and pass lots of really good laws in the next few days.

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  8. #13908

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    It's now being suggested that if, as the judgement agrees, Johnson misled (or even lied to) the Queen about the reason for prorogation, it's a resigning matter, and possibly treason.

    I bet Queenie is very, very cross.

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  9. Default

    The Sun was right...


  10. #13910

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Will probably be overturned in the Supreme Court and I doubt the English action will succeed, as I imagine BJ has more friends amongst the judiciary south of the border.

    But highly amusing and satisfactory. I would love to see the opposition parties and Speaker reopen parliament and pass lots of really good laws in the next few days.

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    Opposition MPs are meeting at Church House, which is also where an "alternative Parliament" was proposed during a recess in the run up to Blair's Iraq war, and which then forced a recall of MPs to Westminster.
    Last edited by badgerx16; 11-09-2019 at 11:40 AM.

  11. #13911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The Sun was right...
    Another grooming victim.

  12. #13912

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The Sun was right...

    My God, reading that is just scary isn't it?

  13. #13913

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Opposition MPs are meeting at Church House, which is also where an "alternative Parliament" was proposed during a recess in the run up to Blair's Iraq war, and which then forced a recall of MPs to Westminster.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49660689

  14. #13914

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The Sun was right...

    What a load of xenophobic, reactionary, historically inaccurate, ball-locks.
    Last edited by badgerx16; 11-09-2019 at 12:12 PM.

  15. #13915

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    What a load of xenophobic, reactionary, historically inaccurate, ball-locks.
    Yet plenty of leavers have been lapping that **** up for years, from the red tops, and take it all as gospel.

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  16. #13916

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    What a load of xenophobic, reactionary, historically inaccurate, ball-locks.
    Do you seriously think the likes of John ever had a closely-argued, evidence-based argument for leaving the EU? This is a useful reminder that for many Brexit was never about the facts.

  17. #13917

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Do you seriously think the likes of John ever had a closely-argued, evidence-based argument for leaving the EU? This is a useful reminder that for many Brexit was never about the facts.
    Of course it wasn't.

    If you take the outright xenophobia and anti-immigrant emotion that the likes of Farage deliberately appealed to out of the equation, remain would have won the referendum by a landslide.

  18. #13918

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    [QUOTE=Guided Missile;2760106]The Sun was right. lol

  19. #13919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    As you're obviously too young to have lived through the situation since we joined, then you aren't really in a position to be critical of my choice of adjective to describe my own thoughts on it. Sheaf Saint seems to consider that "enduring" is alarmist phraseology, which is ridiculously shrill and worthy of contempt. I'll put it into another context to try and make the meaning clearer. I have also had to endure over three years of incompetence by May in her negotiations with the EU. Most of the Brexiteers have had to endure it too, to the extent that they are thoroughly fed up with most politicians and just want to get it done.

    Yes, I am of or past retirement age, but as you know nothing about me or my family, it is pointless making assumptions about what will or will not affect me or them. Am I not allowed to wish the best for the careers of my children and their children?
    Can you give just one concrete example of how the EU tyranny has ruined your life?

  20. #13920

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    My God, reading that is just scary isn't it?
    Yep, at first it's almost funny, and then you realise that there were and still are people who think that way and in those terms.

  21. #13921

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Yep, at first it's almost funny, and then you realise that there were and still are people who think that way and in those terms.
    52% of the population apparently...

  22. #13922

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    Von der Leyen ruling put creation of any EU army. Another Brexit shibboleth falls. Tell me again, when is Turkey joining?

  23. #13923

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    So No. 10 has ruled out an election pact with the Brexit party.

    I assume it means Wes, LD and GM will now be voting for the Brexit party to give them their "No deal" Brexit.

  24. #13924

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    Would have already happened if all the Tories and other brexiters including Boris had got behind the withdrawal deal from the start.

    Why didn't he? Why didn't they? Brexit would be done. He didn't believe in Brexit whatever the cost then, he blocked brexit twice.
    Because, as the Prime Minister of the time clearly stated, 'No Deal is better than a bad deal'. I guess they decided that the only deal on the table was a bad deal. Besides, didn't the Prime Minister at the time have at least three attempts to get a better deal and failed miserably each time - potentially due to hands being tied having had the 'no deal' option taken off the table....

    One thing's for sure, there's not a person on the planet that could have predicted the events of the last three years - despite the fact that many on this thread claim they can!

  25. #13925

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    So No. 10 has ruled out an election pact with the Brexit party.

    I assume it means Wes, LD and GM will now be voting for the Brexit party to give them their "No deal" Brexit.
    If the tories are the largest party but without a majority then they will change their tune pretty quick if the brexit party become kingmakers.

  26. #13926

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Because, as the Prime Minister of the time clearly stated, 'No Deal is better than a bad deal'. I guess they decided that the only deal on the table was a bad deal. Besides, didn't the Prime Minister at the time have at least three attempts to get a better deal and failed miserably each time - potentially due to hands being tied having had the 'no deal' option taken off the table....

    One thing's for sure, there's not a person on the planet that could have predicted the events of the last three years - despite the fact that many on this thread claim they can!
    Not sure if that's sarcasm... but a lot of the criticism - and probably the reason Remain lost - before the referendum was that of 'project fear', which if nothing else was warnings that this kind of thing could happen! One thing that seemed pretty obvious to me was that the EU wouldn't allow us to leave with a great deal, despite claims from Brexiteers that "they'd only hurt themselves". Purely from a political point of view, if they allowed UK to leave and cherry pick what parts of the arrangement they liked, then everyone would do that!

  27. #13927

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    If the tories are the largest party but without a majority then they will change their tune pretty quick if the brexit party become kingmakers.
    They won't as the Brexit party will take too many votes from them - that's where the danger is for the Tories.

  28. #13928

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    If the tories are the largest party but without a majority then they will change their tune pretty quick if the brexit party become kingmakers.
    Which is a reflection of how we ended up in this mess in the first place, if you consider that the referendum was only really called to appease the more extreme in the Tory party and to prevent ending up in another coalition. It's pretty depressing, no matter which side of the fence you are, how the fate of our country is at the mercy of people putting their party, but in some cases (Corbyn!) not even their party, ahead of their country at this crucial time.

  29. #13929

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Because, as the Prime Minister of the time clearly stated, 'No Deal is better than a bad deal'. I guess they decided that the only deal on the table was a bad deal. Besides, didn't the Prime Minister at the time have at least three attempts to get a better deal and failed miserably each time - potentially due to hands being tied having had the 'no deal' option taken off the table....

    One thing's for sure, there's not a person on the planet that could have predicted the events of the last three years - despite the fact that many on this thread claim they can!
    But the people voted for Brexit, they didn't vote for a good or bad deal, they just want out and they are being stopped by politicians, that's what I keep hearing. That was a way out. It got blocked because sometimes the Brexit option is unpalatable. Why is it okay to decide that it's okay to block the deal because it's a bad way to Brexit, but not okay to block no deal for the same reason?
    It seems like the Brexit supporters falter between "leave by any way přossible, no matter the cost, we'll manage" and "No, don't leave that way, it's too big a cost and we can't manage it"

    If it's a case of "Just do it". They should accept the deal and just make it happen. like the majority voted for.

  30. #13930

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    I know it's not an EU related decision, but is this indicative of the sort of European legal ruling that Brexiteers are opposed to ?

    "A French company has been found liable for the death of an employee who had a cardiac arrest while having sex with a stranger on a business trip.

    A Paris court ruled that his death was an industrial accident and that the family was entitled to compensation."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49662134

  31. #13931

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    As has been noted, the people who voted for Brexit, generally:

    - had specific vested interests (generally a small number of people)

    - were semi-senile old duffers

    - were uneducated and ignorant.

    Them's the facts.

    We can see some of them on this thread. In some posters, we have instances of overlap. We all know who they are.

    Those people don't care if they're right. This is about getting a win. It's about:

    - narcissism and self promotion;

    - a curmudgeonly "up yours" to a generation and a world they increasingly don't understand (particularly ironic given that this group, through pure generational serendipity has had more to be thankful for than most);

    - getting one over on the establishment and, for once, exercising some political influence; impotent losers waking up one day with a raging morning glory and waving it at the man who, unbeknownst to them, is planning to grease them up for the bumming of a lifetime.
    Last edited by benjii; 11-09-2019 at 05:55 PM.

  32. #13932

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    So No. 10 has ruled out an election pact with the Brexit party.
    Can’t see the Tories getting a majority if that is the case, they will lose too many votes to The Brexit party and Lib Dems.

  33. #13933

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Can’t see the Tories getting a majority if that is the case, they will lose too many votes to The Brexit party and Lib Dems.
    Exactly

  34. #13934

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    As has been noted, the people who voted for Brexit, generally:

    - had specific vested interests (generally a small number of people)

    - were semi-senile old duffers

    - were uneducated and ignorant.

    Them's the facts.

    We can see some of them on this thread. In some posters, we have instances of overlap. We all know who they are.

    Those people don't care if they're right. This is about getting a win. It's about:

    - narcissism and self promotion;

    - a curmudgeonly "up yours" to a generation and a world they increasingly don't understand (particularly ironic given that this group, through pure generational serendipity has had more to be thankful for than most);

    - getting one over on the establishment and, for once, exercising some political influence; impotent losers waking up one day with a raging morning glory and waving it at the man who, unbeknownst to them, is planning to grease them up for the bumming of a lifetime.


    You know the old duffers and oddball culture war types on here better than they know themselves.

  35. #13935

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    As has been noted, the people who voted for Brexit, generally:

    - had specific vested interests (generally a small number of people)

    - were semi-senile old duffers

    - were uneducated and ignorant.

    Them's the facts.

    We can see some of them on this thread. In some posters, we have instances of overlap. We all know who they are.

    Those people don't care if they're right. This is about getting a win. It's about:

    - narcissism and self promotion;

    - a curmudgeonly "up yours" to a generation and a world they increasingly don't understand (particularly ironic given that this group, through pure generational serendipity has had more to be thankful for than most);

    - getting one over on the establishment and, for once, exercising some political influence; impotent losers waking up one day with a raging morning glory and waving it at the man who, unbeknownst to them, is planning to grease them up for the bumming of a lifetime.
    Very well put, and very true. For many Brexiteers, it's just about winning, never mind the consequences.

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  36. #13936

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    I know it's not an EU related decision, but is this indicative of the sort of European legal ruling that Brexiteers are opposed to ?

    "A French company has been found liable for the death of an employee who had a cardiac arrest while having sex with a stranger on a business trip.

    A Paris court ruled that his death was an industrial accident and that the family was entitled to compensation."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49662134
    Probably. But it makes sense when you dig a bit more. It’s about insurance and the ability to claim if you die on a work trip . As opposed to the company being able exclude some circumstances, like if you got blown up while on a work trip to Afghanistan

  37. Default Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

    Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents released http://news.sky.com/story/operation-...eased-11807339

    Who’s not in favour for their electric bill going through the roof? Man up

  38. #13938

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents released http://news.sky.com/story/operation-...eased-11807339

    Who’s not in favour for their electric bill going through the roof? Man up
    The release of this has just seen 10 million people go from leave to remain...

  39. #13939

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    And they've refused to release the communications between advisers regarding Yellowhammer and prorogation planning, as demanded by parliament.

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  40. #13940

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents released http://news.sky.com/story/operation-...eased-11807339

    Who’s not in favour for their electric bill going through the roof? Man up
    Points 5 (electricity prices increase), 6 (disruption to medical supplies and reduced ability to prevent disease outbreaks), 7 (increased food prices and potential supply disruptions), 12 (Gibraltar is screwed), 15 (redacted entirely, couldn't bring themselves to show what was written there) & 18 (businesses folding, relocating or passing increased trading costs onto consumers and increase in black market activity) in particular all sound like a lot of fun. GERRONWIVIT!!111!!!

  41. #13941

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    And they've refused to release the communications between advisers regarding Yellowhammer and prorogation planning, as demanded by parliament
    By claiming it would be unfair to the people involved. Yet it was okay to demand the personal phone messages of the Chancellors SPAD?

  42. #13942

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents released http://news.sky.com/story/operation-...eased-11807339

    Who’s not in favour for their electric bill going through the roof? Man up
    Surely this just more project fear put out be filthy traitorous remainers...like the errr goverment

  43. #13943

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman View Post
    Points 5 (electricity prices increase), 6 (disruption to medical supplies and reduced ability to prevent disease outbreaks), 7 (increased food prices and potential supply disruptions), 12 (Gibraltar is screwed), 15 (redacted entirely, couldn't bring themselves to show what was written there) & 18 (businesses folding, relocating or passing increased trading costs onto consumers and increase in black market activity) in particular all sound like a lot of fun. GERRONWIVIT!!111!!!
    It seems point 15 was closure of two fuel refineries and 2000 job losses leading to disruptions in fuel availability in the regions directly supplied by those refineries. Also the title of the document was changed from "base scenario" to "reasonable worst case scenario".

  44. #13944

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman View Post
    It seems point 15 was closure of two fuel refineries and 2000 job losses leading to disruptions in fuel availability in the regions directly supplied by those refineries. Also the title of the document was changed from "base scenario" to "reasonable worst case scenario".
    And as the area affected was SE England there is a good chance they mean Fawley.

  45. #13945

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents released http://news.sky.com/story/operation-...eased-11807339

    Who’s not in favour for their electric bill going through the roof? Man up
    Why rename it from 'Base Case' ? If it wasn't the 'Worst Case' then, it isn't now.

    As noted above, point 15, according to the copy leaked a month ago :"Petrol import tariffs, which the government has set at 0%, will “inadvertently” lead to the closure of two oil refineries, 2,000 job losses, widespread strike action and disruptions to fuel availability"
    Last edited by badgerx16; 11-09-2019 at 09:07 PM.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Why rename it from 'Base Case' ? If it wasn't the 'Worst Case' then, it isn't now.

    As noted above, point 15, according to the copy leaked a month ago :"Petrol import tariffs, which the government has set at 0%, will “inadvertently” lead to the closure of two oil refineries, 2,000 job losses, widespread strike action and disruptions to fuel availability"
    Might have to look to buy a cheap second home in the waterside area.

  47. #13947

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    It's ok I've just seen Nigel on telly the government paper is just project fear
    mark II so we can all just relax and get on with a clean break brexit (Whatever the **** that is supposed to be)

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  48. #13948

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    This paper is a disaster for the no-deal nut jobs.

  49. #13949

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    This paper is a disaster for the no-deal nut jobs.
    Probably not. Like I said Farage was on telly last night basically calling the whole thing more project fear. Most of his cultists will go along with that idea so I doubt this will change their mind one bit. For the rest of us we knew a no deal Brexit was the worst kind of Brexit and this just adds more conformation the we are right.

  50. #13950

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Probably not. Like I said Farage was on telly last night basically calling the whole thing more project fear. Most of his cultists will go along with that idea so I doubt this will change their mind one bit. For the rest of us we knew a no deal Brexit was the worst kind of Brexit and this just adds more conformation the we are right.
    For those that were looking to vote Conservative in the next election it pushes them over to the Brexit Party though I would have thought as the Tories have to campaign on a deal now, and I would have thought they will have to rule out no deal as the risks are now "official".

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