Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Mainly because you can't crow about "democracy" and the people "having their say" if the biggest supporter and ally of Johnson wasn't voted in democratically. It got through to me that someone can get in if they rely on unelected officials who, most probably, received nice sums of money for their decisions. And you can be sure Trump will win can you?

I can crow about whatever I like, and it's a bit rich coming from you talking about democracy and unelected officials running the show when you're such a big fan of the EU. You can argue that our system of first past the post isn't ideal, and neither is the American one either, but despite their imperfections, they are a darned site better than most of the rest of the world, a lot of which doesn't have democracy at all.

Mainly because you can't crow about "democracy" and the people "having their say" if the biggest supporter and ally of Johnson wasn't voted in democratically. It got through to me that someone can get in if they rely on unelected officials who, most probably, received nice sums of money for their decisions.

What on Earth are you waffling on about. Every single PM in my life time has had supporters, officials, & allies that weren’t elected. Some of these unelected people, actually made decisions and even got paid for it.....

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What on Earth are you waffling on about. Every single PM in my life time has had supporters, officials, & allies that weren’t elected. Some of these unelected people, actually made decisions and even got paid for it.....

 

 

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Hopefully not ones directly associated with the far right though eh?

Hopefully not ones directly associated with the far right though eh?

Define far right and provide names of those who you believe fill the brief. Is it anybody to the right of Corbyn?

Define far right and provide names of those who you believe fill the brief. Is it anybody to the right of Corbyn?

Are you suggesting I'm a Corbynite? I certainly am not. In my view Corbyn was a good example of those who fail to learn from history...i.e. Michael Foot. But nicely stereotyped....kind a expected really but definition?

Can having strong connections to Steve Bannon be classed as having links to the far right? I would certainly suggest so. I do like the New Yorker; it's always insightful but either way, you're clutching if you're trying to deny the links. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-evidence-emerges-of-steve-bannon-and-cambridge-analyticas-role-in-brexit

Are you suggesting I'm a Corbynite? I certainly am not. In my view Corbyn was a good example of those who fail to learn from history...i.e. Michael Foot. But nicely stereotyped....kind a expected really but definition?

 

Can having strong connections to Steve Bannon be classed as having links to the far right? I would certainly suggest so. I do like the New Yorker; it's always insightful but either way, you're clutching if you're trying to deny the links. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-evidence-emerges-of-steve-bannon-and-cambridge-analyticas-role-in-brexit

Where did I suggest that you were a Corbynite? I was being sarcastic at your mention of "far right" and wondered where you drew your line on what constituted that description in your opinion. I also mentioned Corbyn as an example of what in my opinion constitutes a far left politician.

As for your little article from the New Yorker, I stopped taking anything it said seriously when it described Leave EU as a far right nationalist organisation. Of course, anybody who voted to leave the EU is both far right and a racist, aren't they? Apart from the fact that I don't pay too much attention to what an American publication says about politics in the UK, any more than the Americans care a toss over what British media says about them, the article is so out of date, that it mentions the effect that Brexit had on May's government.

Why don't you just accept that remain lost the vote, we have left the EU, so there really is little point on raking over old coals. Move on.

Where did I suggest that you were a Corbynite? I was being sarcastic at your mention of "far right" and wondered where you drew your line on what constituted that description in your opinion. I also mentioned Corbyn as an example of what in my opinion constitutes a far left politician.

 

As for your little article from the New Yorker, I stopped taking anything it said seriously when it described Leave EU as a far right nationalist organisation. Of course, anybody who voted to leave the EU is both far right and a racist, aren't they? Apart from the fact that I don't pay too much attention to what an American publication says about politics in the UK, any more than the Americans care a toss over what British media says about them, the article is so out of date, that it mentions the effect that Brexit had on May's government.

 

Why don't you just accept that remain lost the vote, we have left the EU, so there really is little point on raking over old coals. Move on.

Kinda what this thread is about...... I like the great big shout of "oh, but I'm definitely not a racist" shout from you though. Either way, I'm just not a big fan of the man who put us into administration twice, so anything he says is right, I tend to do the opposite. Perchance, were you one of the fans protesting against Rupert Lowe? Is he your hero now then? It's just, if it's got Rupert Lowe and a bunch of flag-waving neo-nazis attached to it, I tend to think it's not the "good" side.

Kinda what this thread is about...... I like the great big shout of "oh, but I'm definitely not a racist" shout from you though. Either way, I'm just not a big fan of the man who put us into administration twice, so anything he says is right, I tend to do the opposite. Perchance, were you one of the fans protesting against Rupert Lowe? Is he your hero now then? It's just, if it's got Rupert Lowe and a bunch of flag-waving neo-nazis attached to it, I tend to think it's not the "good" side.

And no, I'm not a racist, despite the attempts of various remoaners like you implying that anybody who voted to leave the EU did so because they detested foreigners. As I suggested, move on, we've left the EU, your lot lost You're beginning to look ridiculous raking over ancient history.

You're not very objective in your views are you? In fact you're all over the place. Now you're going all the way back to Rupert Lowe to try and prove a point. Is it not possible to have protested to Lowe over his running of our football club, and yet support his stance on Brexit? Are you incapable of making the leap of imagination to accept that?

 

And no, I'm not a racist, despite the attempts of various remoaners like you implying that anybody who voted to leave the EU did so because they detested foreigners. As I suggested, move on, we've left the EU, your lot lost You're beginning to look ridiculous raking over ancient history.

Yes yes, we've all moved on...and look where it's gotten us. a babbling buffoon in office and the highest death rate in Europe. If you think Rupert Lowe is not a great example of the people you've sided with, then there you go, ignorance is bliss. And btw, if you think Rupert Lowe is the only rich, right wing nutjob in that bunch pretending to be on your side, then, well, there's no hope is there?...................Imagine thinking people like Rupert Lowe and Anne Widdecombe were freedom fighters and fighting for your rights and the rights of common folk...lol laughable.

Either way, I'm just not a big fan of the man who put us into administration twice.

When was the second time?

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When was the second time?

 

 

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I seem to recall him standing down once and then returning to stick the knife in again.

Yes yes, we've all moved on...and look where it's gotten us. a babbling buffoon in office and the highest death rate in Europe.

Do you think the Prime Minister is responsible for the Chinese virus and therefore the deaths in the UK?

Do you think Brexit is responsible for the Chinese virus?

Do you think the Prime Minister is responsible for the Chinese virus and therefore the deaths in the UK?

No but he’s the idiot who had us singing Happy Birthday when we should have been in lockdown. If you look at the effect lockdown has had on the graph, and work out where we would be now had it happened a week or two earlier and I expect his decision has cost many many lives.

No but he’s the idiot who had us singing Happy Birthday when we should have been in lockdown. If you look at the effect lockdown has had on the graph, and work out where we would be now had it happened a week or two earlier and I expect his decision has cost many many lives.

And yet the hospitals have never been full, have they? No one has been denied critical care when they needed it, have they?

How, exactly are you attributing the cost of many many lives to the Prime Minister? I was under the impression that 'additional' lives would be lost when the NHS was overwhelmed, not when it is underwhelmed....

Yes yes, we've all moved on...and look where it's gotten us. a babbling buffoon in office and the highest death rate in Europe. If you think Rupert Lowe is not a great example of the people you've sided with, then there you go, ignorance is bliss. And btw, if you think Rupert Lowe is the only rich, right wing nutjob in that bunch pretending to be on your side, then, well, there's no hope is there?...................Imagine thinking people like Rupert Lowe and Anne Widdecombe were freedom fighters and fighting for your rights and the rights of common folk...lol laughable.

You haven't moved on. You're palpably still quaking with rage judging by your responses. By insulting our Prime Minister, you're also by extension insulting those who voted him into office. You might like to reflect that he achieved the biggest majority since Thatcher's in 87, a stonking great 80 seats. You're not very good at picking the winning side, are you? As for the rest of your rambling, the UK does not have the highest death rate in Europe. The highest rate is little Belgium, home of the EU, with Italy and Spain above us too. We do have the highest number of fatalities though. Whether we would have had a lower death rate had we not left the EU, well, who knows?

As for Lowe and your assertion that he is "pretending" to be on "my" side, you have obviously forgotten that he stood as a candidate for The Referendum Party years ago, so he was for leaving the EU then, (as was I)

This fighting for the rights of common people you speak of, is this the right of our citizens to only have their elected representatives make our laws, for them to decide also who can or cannot emigrate here, to have control over our territorial waters? I realise that these things don't matter to you, that you were quite happy to have Brussels in control of them, but a majority of the electorate voted against that.

I repeat; you lose. get over it.

I seem to recall him standing down once and then returning to stick the knife in again.

You said he’d taken us into administration twice. For a bloke calling Boris a buffoon & attaching the line “ignorance is bliss” to Leavers, you do seem rather unfamiliar with the truth. Following on from your “traffic only down by 10% “ lie earlier, you do seem to have a bit of form in the pony department.

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You haven't moved on. You're palpably still quaking with rage judging by your responses. By insulting our Prime Minister, you're also by extension insulting those who voted him into office. You might like to reflect that he achieved the biggest majority since Thatcher's in 87, a stonking great 80 seats. You're not very good at picking the winning side, are you? As for the rest of your rambling, the UK does not have the highest death rate in Europe. The highest rate is little Belgium, home of the EU, with Italy and Spain above us too. We do have the highest number of fatalities though. Whether we would have had a lower death rate had we not left the EU, well, who knows?

 

As for Lowe and your assertion that he is "pretending" to be on "my" side, you have obviously forgotten that he stood as a candidate for The Referendum Party years ago, so he was for leaving the EU then, (as was I)

 

This fighting for the rights of common people you speak of, is this the right of our citizens to only have their elected representatives make our laws, for them to decide also who can or cannot emigrate here, to have control over our territorial waters? I realise that these things don't matter to you, that you were quite happy to have Brussels in control of them, but a majority of the electorate voted against that. Although, to be fair, Corbyn and McDonnell both called for Blair to be fired after that too.

 

I repeat; you lose. get over it.

He doesn't need anyone else insulting him; he does a good enough job of looking like an idiot himself. and as for Lord Duckhunter there, yeah, except I'm not prime minister now am I? Great performance from him today by the way....flim flamming as usual. And as for the BS "you lost, get over it" line.....so when's the economic explosion of good will and amazing trade happening then?

Also, in 1997, Labour won 418 seats compared to the Tories 165...this result is only similar to Blair's LAST election result. Political blindness or what.

And yet the hospitals have never been full, have they? No one has been denied critical care when they needed it, have they?

 

How, exactly are you attributing the cost of many many lives to the Prime Minister? I was under the impression that 'additional' lives would be lost when the NHS was overwhelmed, not when it is underwhelmed....

You appear to be under a lot of impressions that are wrong. Some people die when they get infected even when they get an ICU bed, if less people had got infected, less would have died. It’s not rocket science.

You appear to be under a lot of impressions that are wrong. Some people die when they get infected even when they get an ICU bed, if less people had got infected, less would have died. It’s not rocket science.

Lol. So, we should lock everyone up until there is a vaccine? That's the only way to stop infections. The actions taken so far have been to slow the spread, not stop it. Not once has anyone stood at a podium and claimed they were going to stop the spread.

You appear to be under a lot of impressions that are wrong, or you really, really haven't been paying attention for the last 6 weeks.

Lol. So, we should lock everyone up until there is a vaccine? That's the only way to stop infections. The actions taken so far have been to slow the spread, not stop it. Not once has anyone stood at a podium and claimed they were going to stop the spread.

 

You appear to be under a lot of impressions that are wrong, or you really, really haven't been paying attention for the last 6 weeks.

That’s my point, we could have slowed it more with quicker action, instead we have the highest amount of deaths in Europe.

That’s my point, we could have slowed it more with quicker action, instead we have the highest amount of deaths in Europe.

But not the highest rate of deaths per head of population. As mentioned earlier, Belgium tops that league, and also Spain and Italy have higher rates than us.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/met-drops-investigation-into-brexit-campaigners-darren-grimes-and-alan-halsall-7crknqqt5

The Met Police have dropped the investigation instigated by the Electoral Commission into the funding of part of the Leave campaign during the run up to the Brexit referendum. It was clearly the case that the Remain campaign pursued the same tactics as Leave towards their funding, yet the Electoral Commission saw no reason to prosecute them in the same manner. This came as no surprise, because the Electoral Commission sought only to discredit the Leave side, stuffed full of remainers as it is, so its impartiality is totally discredited.

the Electoral Commission sought only to discredit the Leave side, stuffed full of remainers as it is, so its impartiality is totally discredited.

Says the says the loudest dog whistle barker on the forum. Wes you wouldn't be able to recognise objectivity if it slapped you repeatedly around the face - as has happened many many times on this forum.

Says the says the loudest dog whistle barker on the forum. Wes you wouldn't be able to recognise objectivity if it slapped you repeatedly around the face - as has happened many many times on this forum.

But it seems that the Met Police and the DPP recognise objectivity, whereas the Electoral Commission patently do not. Next you'll be claiming that the BBC wasn't biased against Leave. And you're a fine one to talk of objectivity as one of the forum's remoaners-in-chief. My record on the subject of Brexit stacks up pretty well against yours in terms of how it has developed.

. Next you'll be claiming that the BBC wasn't biased against Leave.

The BBC we’re actually pretty good during the purdah period. The were pretty balanced & probably as neutral as it’s possible to be.

The period following, particularly after Mays dog breakfast of an election campaign, they’ve been horrendously biased. Too much air time given to the Gaukes, Stewart’s & Hestletine’s along with underserved fawning over Soubry & her gang of loons.

My argument is impartiality is impossible as individuals values & thoughts will always cloud editorial decisions.

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Boris continues to play a blinder, unlike Merkel ....

Boris continues to play a blinder, unlike Merkel ....

#obsessed

I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement.

June 2016.

June 2016.

Norway option

Norway option

The Watchman Letter: Deutsche Bank Europe's Zombie Bank

2 years ago

Most Corporations cook the books in order to show increased revenue and to beat analyst expectations. But Deutsche Bank numbers are so bad that even the accountants can not make DB look good. Some more details from the abysmal quarter, via Bloomberg:

• Full-year net revenue of 26.4 billion euros; est. 27.26 billion euros
  
• 4Q net revenue EU5.71 billion, lowest since 2010
  
• 4Q sales and trading revenue EU886 million, down 27 percent
  
• 4Q loss 2.18 billion euros; estimate was for loss 2.24 billion euros
  
• 4Q common equity Tier 1 ratio 14 percent
  
• 4Q equity trading revenue 332 million euros
  
• 4Q debt trading revenue 554 million euros
  
• FY loss after tax 512 million euros
  

As Bloomberg notes, Deutsche Bank's revenue has fallen in 8 out of the 10 quarters since Cryan took over as CEO. Why is Europe's largest bank financial so bad ? Because DB has been insolvent since 1998.

In 1998 the Bankers Trust Bank was in financial and legal trouble. Bankers Trust was called "The Feds Bank", because it was the main Bank the Fed's used for Credit Swaps & Treasury transactions. The SEC was in the process to investigate BT records, which would expose the Fed's records too. The Fed's solution to keep the Fed's books closed was to move Bankers Trust off shore to Europe. Deutsche Bank was force to acquire Bankers Trust. This was a terrible deal for DB because BT had a large financial exposure to the Derivatives Market and was bleeding money. Since 1998 Deutsche Bank has been a Zombie Bank. The central banks continue to prop up DB because it has a one of the largest Derivative portfolio's in the world. If DB fails it would have a domino effect on the $2.4 Quadrillion Derivatives Market thus causing a global financial collapse.

Starmer refuses to call for the TP to be extended beyond 31st December. His change of stance since becoming leader is welcome. He no longer needs to be a Corbyn stooge; he can be his own man and is bright enough to realise when a cause is lost.

Boris tells von der Leyen again that we will not be extending. How much more clarity do the EU want that they had better get a move on with trade talks, as the end of June will not be changing the time schedule from 31st December for a deal or no deal.

The EU insist that talks will stall unless discussions on their priorities of fishing rights and a level rules playing field are allowed to proceed in parallel with trade talks and on aviation, energy and other core interests of ours.

The hypocrisy in their position is breathtaking. When they were in talks with the grossly incompetent May and Robbins, the EU insisted that no talks on trade could be pursued until agreement had been reached on our payment into the EU slush fund, the Irish border question and the EU/UK citizenship residency question. There was no question of parallel talks then, (against the legal terms of Article 50), so we should remind them of that, and ask why things are different now.

In any event, discussion on these things shouldn't take more than a few minutes. We have already told them that we will not be accepting their level playing field rules and that we will be taking back control of our coastal waters and setting out a fisheries policy that suits us on an annual basis, rather than the long term basis that the EU demands. If they are not prepared to accept that, then there is little point in wasting everybody's time further. If they want a trade deal with us, then that can be negotiated strictly on the basis that we will not accept a position of inferiority to that granted to other countries who agreed FTAs with the EU.

The EU claim that our stance reneges on the non-legally binding political declaration that they originally placed before the hapless May and Robbins, but the situation has changed immeasurably since the general election, so we rightly feel no compunction to abide by it under the changed circumstances.

I suspect that this false sense of superiority the EU has in these negotiations will mean that no progress will be made this week, with the EU blaming us for our intransigence, as usual. But as there will only be one more session before the end of June deadline for an extension, a sense of panic in the EU position will increase on a daily basis the closer the deadline gets. Beyond that, it is believed that a trade deal would have to be in place before October, in order that the bureaucracy can be organised before the end of December. As Barnier is so fond of pointing out, the clock is ticking, but it is he who needs to develop a greater sense of urgency.

It looks to me that Starmer is being very shrewd and is letting them hang themselves. He makes the point that the Government have said that they can do this by 31st December and he is saying go ahead and let’s see if you can. By not seeking an extension, as would seem perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, the government are putting pressure on themselves.

It looks to me that Starmer is being very shrewd and is letting them hang themselves. He makes the point that the Government have said that they can do this by 31st December and he is saying go ahead and let’s see if you can. By not seeking an extension, as would seem perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, the government are putting pressure on themselves.

Does it really matter what Starmer does or thinks? The government have a working majority of nigh on 100 as Sinn Fein don't sit or vote. The government can do whatever they want. They've said no extension and that is that.

It looks to me that Starmer is being very shrewd and is letting them hang themselves. He makes the point that the Government have said that they can do this by 31st December and he is saying go ahead and let’s see if you can. By not seeking an extension, as would seem perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, the government are putting pressure on themselves.

No, the government are putting pressure on Barnier and the EU. You don't understand this negotiating lark, do you? Did the UK put pressure on the EU by passing a Bill, the Benn Surrender Act, stating that they would have to accept whatever agreement the EU were prepared to offer us? In simple terms, being prepared to walk away from a bad deal is back on the table, thank God. The "no deal" that is better than a bad deal, is WTO terms compared to what the EU are demanding, the bad deal, their level playing field rules, long term access to our fishing grounds, continuing jurisdiction of the ECJ and a worse deal than that already granted to Canada, S.Korea, Japan, none of whom do anywhere near as much trade with the EU as we do.

Had we never been a member of the EU, never joined the so-called Common Market, would we be offered a better deal than those other countries, given the size of our potential trade market and proximity or not?

Starmer cannot subsequently criticise the outcome of the government's negotiations in these talks without having laid out his own position, or else he would make himself look ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than he made himself look as the Shadow Brexit Minister, getting splinters in his bottom from his fence-sitting indecisiveness. As opposition leader, he has learnt his lesson, that he doesn't have that luxury.

Does it really matter what Starmer does or thinks? The government have a working majority of nigh on 100 as Sinn Fein don't sit or vote. The government can do whatever they want. They've said no extension and that is that.

Fair point. I still think he is doing the right thing in letting them get on with it and not pressing for an extension, but as you say, they can do what they want anyway - deal or no deal!

Fair point. I still think he is doing the right thing in letting them get on with it and not pressing for an extension, but as you say, they can do what they want anyway - deal or no deal!

Exactly, whether it's doing the right thing or realising that it's flogging a dead horse anyway is of no importance whatsoever.

He's got a cushy well paid job for 4 and a half years, Leader of H.M Opposition. Might as well pick his battles and hope for a smidgeon of success somewhere down the line.

I wonder if Wes is as condescending in real life or if he just saves it for this forum?

I wonder if Wes is as condescending in real life or if he just saves it for this forum?

He's just frustrated that Teresa May didn't just tell the EU to go **** themselves when she took over from Cameron.

He's just frustrated that Teresa May didn't just tell the EU to go **** themselves when she took over from Cameron.

Well with a majority of about 18 and a packet of softies in her ranks that wasn't an option.

I wonder if Wes is as condescending in real life or if he just saves it for this forum?

You have to remember that he lives in a different world to most people. His world is populated by "remoaners" / the "Chinese virus" / "Lib Dumbs"/ the "Benn Surrender Act " etc etc.

Bless.

You have to remember that he lives in a different world to most people. His world is populated by "remoaners" / the "Chinese virus" / "Lib Dumbs"/ the "Benn Surrender Act " etc etc.

 

Bless.

I'll stay in character then; suck it up snowflake.

I'll stay in character then; suck it up snowflake.

Bless:lol:

Meanwhile, Project Fear continues to show what a total load of bullsh!t it was:

Nissan is in talks with Renault to shift production of two of the French carmaker's models from Spain to Sunderland. The FT reports that the Japanese and French manufacturers are discussing the move as part of a global overhaul of operations to be announced this month. The paper says the move would signal the Japanese carmaker's long-term commitment to the UK's largest car plant.

The snowflakes populating this country swallowed this whole but at least they now have the corona Project Fear bullsh!t to give them an excuse to whine and cry. Big girls blouses...

Meanwhile, Project Fear continues to show what a total load of bullsh!t it was:

 

The snowflakes populating this country swallowed this whole but at least they now have the corona Project Fear bullsh!t to give them an excuse to whine and cry. Big girls blouses...

Good news indeed, but not for the reasons you think. The Barcelona plant will rely on a network of suppliers throughout Spain, France and elsewhere. Successfully transferring that production will rely on continuing that free movement....

We really are going to back to normal with UK govt getting huffy at EU insistence of negotiating on basis of what the UK agreed.

Good news indeed, but not for the reasons you think. The Barcelona plant will rely on a network of suppliers throughout Spain, France and elsewhere. Successfully transferring that production will rely on continuing that free movement....

Is that freedom of movement of parts?

Is that freedom of movement of parts?

Yes. But it cant be 'normal' customs procedures, that doesn't work with just in time. It would have to be some kind of highly expedited system - and that means alignment of standards and tariff exemptions for everything apart from finished products ready for market.

Nissan Gives Cold Comfort to Brexit-Threatened Auto Plant

The Nissan plant in Sunderland, England, will receive a production line for an updated Juke crossover, but post-Brexit prospects for the plant remain grim.

Bloomberg

OCT 10TH, 2019

Nissan Motor Co. unveiled a revamped production line in the English town of Sunderland on Thursday. Yet the fanfare around the updated Juke crossover model may prove to be no more than a stay of execution for a factory whose future will be on the line in the event of a no-deal Brexit. The introduction of the face-lifted auto at Britain’s biggest car plant will be accompanied by the loss of one of five daily work shifts as staff transfer between the site’s two assembly lines, a move that may be a precursor of further cuts to come. Carmakers have been increasingly vocal in opposing a British split from the European Union without a deal, warning of a potentially devastating impact on the industry. Export tariffs would make locally built autos uncompetitive when sold in mainland Europe, and customs checks and red tape would disrupt ultra-efficient, just-in-time supply lines, they say.

Nissan warned government on fate of Sunderland without deal

Carmaker said it was prepared to shift production to France and Spain

Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn received assurances from the prime minister that the carmaker would be shielded from the impact of Brexit

Peter Campbell and Henry Mance OCTOBER 28 2016

Nissan warned the British government that the carmaker would wind down UK operations if it was not guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe, according to two people involved in negotiations over future investment in its Sunderland plant. During talks that led to a meeting between Theresa May and Nissan chief Carlos Ghosn, the Japanese carmaker said it was prepared to shift production to its Spanish and French factories in a move that would lead to the closure of its British plant and other UK sites.

Freedom of movement....