View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    35 22.15%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    8 5.06%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.27%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    88 55.70%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    6 3.80%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    3 1.90%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 2.53%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.27%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    10 6.33%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #16101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.
    The EU's trade with the US is worth far more to both sides than ours, we are in a much weaker position when it comes to facing off with the Americans. And whilst some of our protections might be better than the EUs, I worry that one consequence, ( and intention ), of Brexit has always been to start eroding them to make our economy more 'competitive', ( the Singapore Model ).

  2. #16102

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    So you finally accept that there will be trade frictions and services will barely get a look in. Well done.
    Show me where I said that there there will be no trade frictions and indeed where I mentioned services. I've always taken the view that after a few bumps in the road whilst we adjusted to our new circumstances, we would forge ahead outside of the EU. I see no reason to change my mind.

  3. #16103

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack rill View Post
    Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.

  4. #16104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Show me where I said that there there will be no trade frictions and indeed where I mentioned services. I've always taken the view that after a few bumps in the road whilst we adjusted to our new circumstances, we would forge ahead outside of the EU. I see no reason to change my mind.
    Thanks for clarifying that you think there will be a few bumps in the road and you agree that Brexiters like Dominic Raab who say that regulatory divergence will mean no new checks are chatting s**t. Likewise plans for permanent equivalence. What other guff don’t you believe pal? Are you saying that Brexiters have feeding us s**t? What does holding all the cards mean if all we do is get a Canada-style agreement on similar (or worse) terms? Or having our cake and eat it? Perhaps you can explain what all this means, Les.
    Last edited by shurlock; 21-02-2020 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #16105

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack rill View Post
    Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.
    Aren't you worried about demands for continued EU access to our fishing grounds ?

  6. #16106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Les. Have you finally flipped?

    Where have I just said that we had lost our country ?
    Amusing as you are, perhaps you should take a break from this forum. It is not good for you.
    If we were to get our country back, then we must either have lost it, or given it away, mustn't we? I'll decline your advice to take a break from the forum, thanks, although naturally I'm touched by your concern. I'm afraid that if I were to give up posting on this thread, I'd be depriving myself of the pleasure of yanking your chain.

  7. #16107

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that you think there will be a few bumps in the road and you agree that Brexiters like Dominic Raab who say that regulatory divergence will mean no new checks are chatting s**t. Likewise plans for permanent equivalence. What other guff don’t you believe pal? Are you saying that Brexiters have feeding us s**t? What does holding all the cards mean? Or having our cake and eat it? Perhaps you can explain what all this means, Les.
    I'm a pragmatist, Gavyn. I've always accepted that there will naturally be some short term disruption caused by our leaving the EU, but I am confident that in the medium to long term, the prospects for the UK are better served by being independent of it. I realise that as a economist, you assessed our future prospects purely on economic grounds, like the treasury and most of the remoaner establishment. I weighed those economic concerns against the other factors involved, our ability as an independent sovereign nation to chart out own course, set our own laws, allow immigration by our rules, negotiate our own trade deals around the world and to cease payments into the EU coffers.

    Far be it for me to wish to rake over old coals, Brexit having been won, but sh*t was fed into the debate from both sides, and the side wanting to have their cake and eat, it is now very much the EU.

  8. #16108

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Aren't you worried about demands for continued EU access to our fishing grounds ?
    Badger, I salute you. Probably the best response to any poster on this thread.

    Of course they want to keep the fish to themselves LOOOOOOL

  9. #16109

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Lots of us (me included).
    Go for it - post the quotes....

    I bet you can't, even posts from before the election when it was obvious to everyone that the EU was never going to negotiate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Go for it - post the quotes....

    I bet you can't, even posts from before the election when it was obvious to everyone that the EU was never going to negotiate.
    Jesus wept. I know you are one of the dimmest posters on here. But the EU made it abundantly clear from the outset that it would never allow the UK to cherrypick the best parts of EU membership - that is enjoy full market access and frictionless trade with EU on the one hand yet be free from its regulation and freedom of movement on the other. To do so would strike at the integrity of the single market and the four freedoms. Your parents must be really proud of you little Westie.
    Last edited by shurlock; 21-02-2020 at 05:22 PM.

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    Little Leo not very happy today. Lol....

    “I met with President Michel and President von der Leyen last night and the proposal on the table is one we can’t accept. Essentially it means Ireland will contribute much more to the EU budget but will actually receive less back in terms of payments to Irish farmers and also funds for regional development and social development”.

    The cash cow’s moved on mate, welcome to reality.....


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  13. #16113

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Jesus wept. I know you are one of the dimmest posters on here. But the EU made it abundantly clear from the outset that it would never allow the UK to cherrypick the best parts of EU membership - that is enjoy full market access and frictionless trade with EU on the one hand yet be free from its regulation and freedom of movement on the other. To do so would strike at the integrity of the single market and the four freedoms. Your parents must be really proud of you little Westie.
    And yet, the cleverest person in the whole wide world told all us dummies about it and can point to numerous posts on this thread highlighting just that, as he's claimed..... Unless you're avoiding digging out said posts as you don't want us to look even more stupid, which wouldn't be like you at all.

  14. #16114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    And yet, the cleverest person in the whole wide world told all us dummies about it and can point to numerous posts on this thread highlighting just that, as he's claimed..... Unless you're avoiding digging out said posts as you don't want us to look even more stupid, which wouldn't be like you at all.
    He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

    It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.

  15. #16115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Little Leo not very happy today. Lol....

    “I met with President Michel and President von der Leyen last night and the proposal on the table is one we can’t accept. Essentially it means Ireland will contribute much more to the EU budget but will actually receive less back in terms of payments to Irish farmers and also funds for regional development and social development”.

    The cash cow’s moved on mate, welcome to reality.....


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    And as an aside, they're going to be even less happy when we have taken back control of our coastal waters and the Western EU Atlantic coast fishermen decide that if our territorial waters are closed to them, they had better fish more off Ireland instead.

  16. #16116

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

    It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.
    Much as it was bleeding obvious that you can't have a single currency when everybody's economies in it are operating to different levels, eh? Didn't Gavyn want us to be a part of that?

  17. #16117

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    A very good summary of the forthcoming position we hold in the trade negotiations for the benefit of all you remoaners. I know that you are going to love to hear Nigel Farage's take on this, and look forward to hearing your constructive arguments on where you believe he is wrong, and why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nem8PbkwcXA

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Much as it was bleeding obvious that you can't have a single currency when everybody's economies in it are operating to different levels, eh? Didn't Gavyn want us to be a part of that?
    It was bleeding obvious that Boris couldn’t get the WDA reopened. It was bleeding obvious that there was no way of solving the Irish border.

    It’s going to be Norway, don’t you know. It’s bleeding obvious.


    You think they’d give it a rest.

    It’s as if December 12th never happened.

    #borisplayingablinder


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  19. #16119

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

    It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.
    It's odd really, that given the open goal of finding a couple of quotes and the most intelligent person in the world can't be bothered!

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    More kipper bunker talk.

    Is this the new no deal is better than a bad deal?
    Not sure what your reading and comprehension level is like - hopefully it's better than our resident narcisist's - but this is EXACTLY what I was saying in 2017!

    I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    There isn't going to be a deal.

    Anyone who genuinely believes that the expectations of 27 countries - each with their own different agenda - can honestly be met during these negotiations is completely deluded!

    Way too many fingers in the EU pie for this to be resolved by way of a fair deal for everyone. The next 18 months will be more of the same with each side 'leaking' that the other isn't playing ball until the inevitable split happens without any resolution in place.

  20. #16120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    It was bleeding obvious that Boris couldn’t get the WDA reopened. It was bleeding obvious that there was no way of solving the Irish border.

    It’s going to be Norway, don’t you know. It’s bleeding obvious.
    The WDA was re-opened because Johnson sold out the unionists and ditched the redline over a border down the Irish Sea - ie he caved.

    Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.

  21. #16121

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post

    Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.
    Norway was just you faced with several potential outcomes, making your best guess as to which would come about, and getting it spectacularly wrong. Norway was the remoaners' softest Brexit, or what was known as Brino. It was never going to be acceptable to the Brexit side in the House or in the Country. Boris isn't going to make a U turn that will ever deliver a Norway option, so it's about time you accepted that with good grace. If you believed for one second that any of the Brexiteers on here would lap it up if he did, you make yourself look even more stupid.

  22. #16122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Norway was just you faced with several potential outcomes, making your best guess as to which would come about, and getting it spectacularly wrong. Norway was the remoaners' softest Brexit, or what was known as Brino. It was never going to be acceptable to the Brexit side in the House or in the Country. Boris isn't going to make a U turn that will ever deliver a Norway option, so it's about time you accepted that with good grace. If you believed for one second that any of the Brexiteers on here would lap it up if he did, you make yourself look even more stupid.
    Not really. Johnson is still promising we can get more benefits than the Norway option but with no obligations. So yer choice is deciding whether he lying about the benefits or lying about the obligations.

  23. #16123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    It's odd really, that given the open goal of finding a couple of quotes and the most intelligent person in the world can't be bothered!
    I don’t intend to disappear down one of your excruciatingly dim rabbit holes, so will keep this short. This from 2018 took me 5 minutes to find. Alas I will never get that time back.


    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    By Canada plus plus plus, what the jihadists really mean and want is across-the-board mutual recognition of standards and regulations. Basically it amounts to the UK having freedom to set rules while demanding the EU grant it market access on the UK’s word that it’s standards are aligned with the EU. It’s basically two fingers up to the tenets of collective decision making and enforcement at the heart of the single market. Clearly that will never fly - never mind it being near unprecedented in international trade.
    The EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it, that is, enjoy the trade benefits of EU membership without commensurate obligations (ECJ oversight, FoM etc) -see Barnier’s presentation- the same one that according to LD we remainers have taken great pleasure in quoting throughout the process (yet more proof). Nonetheless the claims we’ve heard from Brexiters over the past few years and even now in cases -no additional regulatory checks, mutual recognition, permanent equivalence, exact same benefits etc- are all variants of the same deluded, arrogant and misleading belief that the UK could do precisely that. Didn’t you ever read the links to Ivan Rogers speeches I approvingly posted saying the same thing?

    No doubt all this will go over your little head (btw what is the difference between feasible and achievable - my English thesaurus doesnt do Westie-speak?). As a consolation prize of sorts, in my rapidfire search, I did stumble upon some of your ‘back catalogue’ (e.g. on immigration). Admittedly it’s not a patch on zlotygate which is still unmatched in its sheer dribbling thickness- but it does illustrate a startling and disturbing tendency to wade into others arguments and quite literally not have a clue what’s going on.

    Have a good weekend and don’t overexert yourself, little Westie.
    Last edited by shurlock; 22-02-2020 at 08:14 AM.

  24. #16124

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Not really. Johnson is still promising we can get more benefits than the Norway option but with no obligations. So yer choice is deciding whether he lying about the benefits or lying about the obligations.
    I'm sure that you will be happy to post his comments which back up what you say. Be certain to post something that says "the same" in connection with the Norway benefits and also "no obligations". When you say he is still promising this, you must mean very recently.

  25. #16125

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    The EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it, that is, enjoy the trade benefits of EU membership without commensurate obligations (ECJ oversight, FoM etc) -see Barnier’s presentation- the same one that according to LD we remainers have taken great pleasure in quoting throughout the process (yet more proof). Nonetheless the claims we’ve heard from Brexiters over the past few years and even now -no additional regulatory checks, mutual recognition, permanent equivalence, exact same benefits etc- are all variants of the same deluded, arrogant and misleading belief that the UK could do precisely that. Didn’t you ever read the links to Ivan Rogers speeches I approvingly posted saying the same thing?
    It's a good thing that you are getting your ego massaging dose of hubris done early in the day, Gavyn, along with the usual accompanying insults. You can now go through the rest of the day with a smug, self-satisfied smile on your face. It's telling that you continuance remoaners are having to fight battles from 2018 and thereabouts. It's time you moved on. History and events have overtaken you. What we wanted then and what is likely to be the outcome now are entirely different scenarios. You might as well try and argue about May's Lancaster House speech, Brexit means Brexit, the merits of Norway or Switzerland type arrangements. All those options are toast, although one stance from back then, "No deal is better than a bad deal" still has validity currently. If the EU continue to believe that as we get close to 31st December without a deal we will fold, then that is where we will be.

  26. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The WDA was re-opened because Johnson sold out the unionists and ditched the redline over a border down the Irish Sea - ie he caved.

    Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.
    Lol.

    You’re pathetically trying to make out The EU have us where they want us. Complete pony. The last thing they wanted was a basic FTA with us outside of their orbit. But that’s exactly what’s going to happen. You were wrong then, and you’re wrong now. Have the good grace to admit it.

    As Frostie says, “we just want what other independent countries have”.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    It's a good thing that you are getting your ego massaging dose of hubris done early in the day, Gavyn, along with the usual accompanying insults. You can now go through the rest of the day with a smug, self-satisfied smile on your face. It's telling that you continuance remoaners are having to fight battles from 2018 and thereabouts. It's time you moved on. History and events have overtaken you. What we wanted then and what is likely to be the outcome now are entirely different scenarios. You might as well try and argue about May's Lancaster House speech, Brexit means Brexit, the merits of Norway or Switzerland type arrangements. All those options are toast, although one stance from back then, "No deal is better than a bad deal" still has validity currently. If the EU continue to believe that as we get close to 31st December without a deal we will fold, then that is where we will be.
    As I say, I have no wish to disappear down rabbit holes inhabited by the furiously hard of thinking Westie but -to paraphrase you- he was the one raking over old coals (see his above posts). Unwisely, perhaps, I indulged him but I will follow your advice, draw a line and move on.

    Of course, when a final agreement is reached (assuming we don’t revert to WTO terms), it will be perfectly right and legitimate to hold up that deal against earlier claims, not least during the recent election campaign. I still don’t understand why you’ve stopped talking about Canada +++ which you previously talked up but now seem to be lowering your sights. Truly odd I must say. What do you think of the UK’s current demand for permanent equivalence - surely as it’s consistent with Canada +++ and involves no loss of sovereignty, you must be fully supportive? And that’s leaving aside a new customs and regulatory border in the Irish Sea (our own country) that we were told no PM could ever countenance. Mind you Johnson has told us that there will be no new checks or paperwork. What are your thoughts on the NI protocol’s sections on state aid which appear to have UK-wide implications (I assume you know what I’m talking about)? As you can see all this is relevant to the here and now. But I’m happy to wait and see what the government delivers before undertaking that assessment.
    Last edited by shurlock; 22-02-2020 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    I don’t intend to disappear down one of your excruciatingly dim rabbit holes, so will keep this short. This from 2018 took me 5 minutes to find. Alas I will never get that time back.
    Nice one, well done.

    You came to the same conclusion as I did, it just took you a year longer to do so!

    Luckily, I don't have to pretend I'm more clever than you when you provide the proof for me

  29. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.
    Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....
    Jesus wept. You're beyond parody. One of those over written comedy characters nobody believes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....
    So that it is easier to drive them in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan, India, Pakistan, Thailand, and Singapore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    So that it is easier to drive them in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan, India, Pakistan, Thailand, and Singapore.
    England and Ireland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    England and Ireland?
    How about Poland where they use the zloty ?

  34. #16134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    England and Ireland?
    GM was being an @rse, so I decided to take the mick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    GM was being an @rse, so I decided to take the mick.
    Do you not think he has a point about different rules operating within the single market?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Do you not think he has a point about different rules operating within the single market?
    There may be a point to be made, but his example doesn't make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Nice one, well done.

    Now that you have got your quote and your characteristically petty and foolish gotcha attempt has (once again) exploded in your face, can you explain how this quote of mine you’ve taken the trouble of digging up:

    “More kipper bunker talk. Is this the new no deal is better than a bad deal?” (please provide the context/date as I’m not going to trawl through thousands of posts - otherwise it’s incredibly disingenuous)

    Relates to and is an endorsement or this quote

    “There isn't going to be a deal. Anyone who genuinely believes that the expectations of 27 countries - each with their own different agenda - can honestly be met during these negotiations is completely deluded! Way too many fingers in the EU pie for this to be resolved by way of a fair deal for everyone. The next 18 months will be more of the same with each side 'leaking' that the other isn't playing ball until the inevitable split happens without any resolution in place” (please provide date)


    I could have pulled two quotes out of my backside, one in Chinese and one in Latin and they would have had more in common pal.

    Also which deal did you claim wouldn’t happen? If it’s a quote from a few years ago (as you proudly boast), it can only logically mean the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement that was about to be/being negotiated at the time (unless you explicitly stated otherwise). If so, not to rain on your little parade, Nostradamus, but there was a deal and the EU maintained an extremely united front. In case you missed it, the Withdrawal Agreement was agreed, signed and took effect a few weeks ago. Whoops

    In all seriousness, little Westie, I suspect you may have diagnosable reading difficulties. That’s your problem, not mine, though I do object to having words put in my mouth. Hopefully you can clarify matters rather than convolute, dissemble or run off for which you have form.

    Now back to the Nevada caucuses and the buildup to the Wilder-Fury fight.
    Last edited by shurlock; 23-02-2020 at 05:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Now that you have got your quote and your characteristically petty and foolish gotcha attempt has (once again) exploded in your face, can you explain how this quote of mine you’ve taken the trouble of digging up:
    Ah, bless, you keep telling yourself that pal.

    The facts speak for themselves, it took you a year longer to reach the same conclusion. I'll lend you a spade if you want to keep on digging!

    If you'd bothered to look, my response was a reply to your kipper nonsense post. Odd that it would take you over 2 years to try and claim they aren't related - you're coming off desperate now. Hint for you, click the little blue arrows in the post and the magic of the internet will whisk you back in time to the posts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Ah, bless, you keep telling yourself that pal.

    The facts speak for themselves, it took you a year longer to reach the same conclusion. I'll lend you a spade if you want to keep on digging!

    If you'd bothered to look, my response was a reply to your kipper nonsense post. Odd that it would take you over 2 years to try and claim they aren't related - you're coming off desperate now. Hint for you, click the little blue arrows in the post and the magic of the internet will whisk you back in time to the posts!
    Which same conclusion? My post didn’t share your analysis (at the least that contained in the quote you provided) and as far as the outcome of article 50 negotiations/withdrawal agreement is concerned, your prediction was spectacularly wrong. How is the kipper quote an endorsement of your quote “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” in your words? Simply repeating it’s so doesn’t make it so. Unless you’re going to explain and join the dots, the only conclusion I can reach is that you’re unable to do so.
    Last edited by shurlock; 23-02-2020 at 06:57 AM.

  40. #16140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint in 2017
    There isn't going to be a deal.

    Anyone who genuinely believes that the expectations of 27 countries - each with their own different agenda - can honestly be met during these negotiations is completely deluded!

    Way too many fingers in the EU pie for this to be resolved by way of a fair deal for everyone. The next 18 months will be more of the same with each side 'leaking' that the other isn't playing ball until the inevitable split happens without any resolution in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock in 2018 View Post
    The EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it, that is, enjoy the trade benefits of EU membership without commensurate obligations (ECJ oversight, FoM etc) -see Barnier’s presentation- the same one that according to LD we remainers have taken great pleasure in quoting throughout the process (yet more proof). Nonetheless the claims we’ve heard from Brexiters over the past few years and even now in cases -no additional regulatory checks, mutual recognition, permanent equivalence, exact same benefits etc- are all variants of the same deluded, arrogant and misleading belief that the UK could do precisely that. Didn’t you ever read the links to Ivan Rogers speeches I approvingly posted saying the same thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock today View Post
    Which same conclusion? My post didn’t share your analysis (at the least that contained in the quote you provided) and as far as the outcome of article 50 negotiations/withdrawal agreement is concerned, your prediction was spectacularly wrong. How is the kipper quote an endorsement of your quote “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” in your words? Simply repeating it’s so doesn’t make it so. Unless you’re going to explain and join the dots, the only conclusion I can reach is that you’re unable to do so.
    Jesus wept! It seems to be a mission of yours to prove to everyone that you are indeed thicker than a whale omelette.

    Let me spell it out for you using simple words!

    In 2017 I stated there would be no deal.

    In 2018 you stated the same thing - well at least it looks like you did, you used way more words than were necessary to provide your conclusion, but that fits your narcissistic M.O.

    Hence why imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Simple really.

    Are you now saying that you have never concluded that there will be 'no deal'? - for clarity as it seems to have confused you earlier, by 'no deal' it is commonly believed that there will be NO agreement between the EU and UK and therefore the UK will conclude the transition period for leaving the EU on WTO trading terms.

  41. #16141

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    Sunday Telegraph:-
    This week, senior ministers will sign off on the UK's list of demands for the negotiations in a meeting of the Cabinet's "exit strategy", or XS, committee on Tuesday, with the paper due to be published online on Thursday.
    We have heard the sabre-rattling from the EU, believing that they hold the whip hand and can make demands of us before they are willing to begin serious trade talks with us. I trust that on Thursday we will read the Government's response, which ought to be to tell them they can go and get lost and that talks will not begin until the EU are prepared to stop fooling about with their stupid suggestions that we should accept a lesser trade deal than they offered to Canada/Japan/S.Korea. Also it should be made clear that we will not accept regulatory equivalence, that they cannot have the same access to our coastal waters as before and Gibraltar is not on the table. Up to them if they are prepared to allow the clock to run down to 31st December without negotiations taking place before we leave on WTO terms.

  42. #16142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Jesus wept! It seems to be a mission of yours to prove to everyone that you are indeed thicker than a whale omelette.

    Let me spell it out for you using simple words!

    In 2017 I stated there would be no deal.

    In 2018 you stated the same thing - well at least it looks like you did, you used way more words than were necessary to provide your conclusion, but that fits your narcissistic M.O.

    Hence why imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Simple really.

    Are you now saying that you have never concluded that there will be 'no deal'? - for clarity as it seems to have confused you earlier, by 'no deal' it is commonly believed that there will be NO agreement between the EU and UK and therefore the UK will conclude the transition period for leaving the EU on WTO trading terms.
    I must be thick because I can't see how you have proved anything there. You said that there won't be a deal beacuse the EU won't be able to agree amongst themselves in order to facilitate some of the UK demands required to do a deal and Shurlock has said that there has always been a danger that the EU won't give in to the UK demands.

    But I thought the point in all of this was we were told by Brexiteers that the EU will hold a strong position until the 11th hour and then they will definitely give in to some of our demands and do a deal because this is how the EU operates and they really want to still be able to sell us prosecco and cars.

    And anyone that thought this was reckless brinkmanship was Project Fear peddling unpatriotic remoaners. But it seems now that this is exactly the position you are not just gearing up for but happy to end up with. This is what people voted for.

  43. #16143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Jesus wept! It seems to be a mission of yours to prove to everyone that you are indeed thicker than a whale omelette.

    Let me spell it out for you using simple words!

    In 2017 I stated there would be no deal.

    In 2018 you stated the same thing - well at least it looks like you did, you used way more words than were necessary to provide your conclusion, but that fits your narcissistic M.O.

    Hence why imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Simple really.

    Are you now saying that you have never concluded that there will be 'no deal'? - for clarity as it seems to have confused you earlier, by 'no deal' it is commonly believed that there will be NO agreement between the EU and UK and therefore the UK will conclude the transition period for leaving the EU on WTO trading terms.
    You've taken two statements -"there isn't going to be a deal" and the "the EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it" (well you've paraphrased mine) that say completely different things and pretend they are they are the same Only in Westie world.

    As suspected you failed to provide the necessary evidence and blew your chance. Instead you wriggle uncomfortably in the hole you've dug,whimpering "Not well at least it looks like you did" which is the sound of you with your pants pulled down.

    What makes your claims even more idiotic is that, digging deeper, the substance of my analysis is diametrically opposed to yours.

    In terms of Article 50 negotiations and whether the UK would leave the EU with a deal (the point under discussion - hence talk of 18months in Sept 2017), your claim was that the EU27 would be too divided to get behind a single agenda, leading to no deal.

    Apart from your prediction being flatout wrong, the starting point for my analysis was the exact opposite. Rather than division, I argued that there would be virtual unanimity among the EU27 regarding the importance of the four freedoms and integrity of the single market -and that very unanimity would rule out cherrypicking by the UK, exposing many of the Brexiters claims/promises as fundamentally undeliverable.

    I made no predictions whether there would be a deal or not - I simply claimed that the unique importance of the single market and four freedoms to the EU27 meant it would not allow the UK to have its cake and eat it. Contrary to your prediction, the EU27 and UK ultimately agreed a deal before the end of the Article 50 period because Brexiters realised they couldn't have their cake ('technological solutions') and agreed to a border in the Irish Sea respecting the EU’s demands to preserve the integrity of the single market (and GFA).

    Trust you to get the wrong end of the stick. Staggering stuff.

    I see you've not touched the quote “More kipper bunker talk. Is this the new no deal is better than a bad deal?”. FWIW I was simply taking the pîśś out of LD and Nolan’s fantastical view that the UK could withhold paying the divorce bill and use it as leverage in negotiations - in much the same that they had been prattling on about using the threat of no deal as leverage ("no deal is better than a bad deal". My post was a gratuitous, throwaway comment aimed at the Brexiters rhetoric and their understanding of how negotiations work- it had absolutely nothing to with divisions in the EU 27 and predictions of no deal per your post. Quite how you reached the conclusion that I was saying the same thing as you is beyond demented.

    Look Westie, I try to engage with most people -if robustly and with a bit of harmless pantomime. Les and I disagree about virtually everything Brexit-related but we can still have a discussion of sorts. Perhaps you're a nice and intelligent fella offline but on here do yourself no favours. Being dim is one thing (even your level of dimness). Being the Tyson Fury of thickos and more importantly acting in manifestly bad faith is quite another. It makes any kind of discussion completely untenable and I'm unable to continue on that basis.
    Last edited by shurlock; 23-02-2020 at 01:09 PM.

  44. #16144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Jesus wept! It seems to be a mission of yours to prove to everyone that you are indeed thicker than a whale omelette.

    Let me spell it out for you using simple words!

    In 2017 I stated there would be no deal.

    In 2018 you stated the same thing - well at least it looks like you did, you used way more words than were necessary to provide your conclusion, but that fits your narcissistic M.O.

    Hence why imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Simple really.

    Are you now saying that you have never concluded that there will be 'no deal'? - for clarity as it seems to have confused you earlier, by 'no deal' it is commonly believed that there will be NO agreement between the EU and UK and therefore the UK will conclude the transition period for leaving the EU on WTO trading terms.
    I must be thick because I can't see how you have proved anything there. You said that there won't be a deal beacuse the EU won't be able to agree amongst themselves in order to facilitate some of the UK demands required to do a deal and Shurlock has said that there has always been a danger that the EU won't give in to the UK demands.

    But I thought the point in all of this was we were told by Brexiteers that the EU will hold a strong position until the 11th hour and then they will definitely give in to some of our demands and do a deal because this is how the EU operates and they really want to still be able to sell us prosecco and cars.

    And anyone that thought this was reckless brinkmanship was Project Fear peddling unpatriotic remoaners. But it seems now that this is exactly the position you are not just gearing up for but happy to end up with. This is what people voted for.

  45. #16145

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    edit double post.

  46. #16146

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    Meant to end my post with 'This is NOT what people voted for'.

  47. #16147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan The Flames View Post
    I must be thick because I can't see how you have proved anything there. You said that there won't be a deal beacuse the EU won't be able to agree amongst themselves in order to facilitate some of the UK demands required to do a deal and Shurlock has said that there has always been a danger that the EU won't give in to the UK demands.

    But I thought the point in all of this was we were told by Brexiteers that the EU will hold a strong position until the 11th hour and then they will definitely give in to some of our demands and do a deal because this is how the EU operates and they really want to still be able to sell us prosecco and cars.

    And anyone that thought this was reckless brinkmanship was Project Fear peddling unpatriotic remoaners. But it seems now that this is exactly the position you are not just gearing up for but happy to end up with. This is what people voted for.
    Exactly. And the reason that the EU27 would not indulge UK demands (at least the cake and eat it type) is precisely because member states were in complete agreement about the importance of preserving the integrity of the single market - a far cry from westie's claim they would be too divided among themselves to agree anything.

    Time to enjoy our Sundays
    Last edited by shurlock; 23-02-2020 at 12:43 PM.

  48. #16148

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Exactly. And the reason that the EU27 would not indulge UK demands (at least the cake and eat it type) is precisely because member states were in complete agreement about the importance of preserving the integrity of the single market - a far cry from westie's claim they would be too divided among themselves to agree anything.

    Time to enjoy our Sundays
    But they are. We have things they want to buy and sell. Our only goal is getting control back of our own country.

    Every thing else to us comes after this priority.... For us it isn't about making sure Germany can sell us cars or Netherlands can keep selling us it's goods and so on,all those goods which they won't just be able to sell to some different country... All those billions of pounds worth of fresh goods with no customers to buy them..... I am sure all in the eu will be happy for a no Deal to happen. Stop kidding your self, some members of the eu are more worried about a no Deal than we are, might not be all the eu members.. But ultimately the eu does what's best for the bloc and letting it lose billions in trade is not doing what's best for the bloc...

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    Dan Hannan introducing nail to head.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You've taken two statements -"there isn't going to be a deal" and the "the EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it" (well you've paraphrased mine) that say completely different things and pretend they are they are the same Only in Westie world.

    So, just so I've got this clear - you know, what with me being a thickie and all.

    My post said there would be 'no deal' - despite you pretending not to know what that meant earlier, I suspect you know exactly what I was referring to.

    Your post is apparently completely different to mine - "diammetrically opposed" in fact - which must mean you believe there will be a deal. The opposite of 'no deal' being 'deal'.

    Enlighten us, oh great one, what will this deal look like? (If you can use one or two paragraphs rather than your usual diatribe which covers every point ever made but doesn't answer the question, that would be much obliged).

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