View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #16301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Are you saying that those responsible for negotiating Brexit are not able to continue unless they have face to face meetings, or that they have been tasked with other duties at present?
    The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

  2. #16302

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwichsaint View Post
    Not really, it was Les that spent all morning banging on about business as usual, apologies if I threw a brick through his window and that offended you.
    We might as well lock this thread now if we are all going to fall in behind the group-think and only be allowed to comment on one issue at a time.
    Hypo was quite right to pull you up on your post, it was pathetic. I was responding originally to a post linking to the Telegraph article claiming that the government would be coerced into postponing the Implementation period for up to a year and expressed the perfectly reasonable opinion that it was unnecessary, as alternatives such as video conferencing could be employed instead of face to face negotiations.

    I agree that we should be able to discuss more than one issue at a time, despite the best efforts of the usual Remoaner suspects to close down debate on Brexit, which amazingly is the title of this very thread.

  3. #16303

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.
    Would seem like a perfectly legitimate reason why Brexit negotiations need to be put on hold if the people carrying them out are tasked with other, more important / imminent duties....

  4. #16304

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.
    Yes there is sufficient capacity within the Civil Service to deal with both matters. Next you'll be claiming that Civil Servants in all of the other departments won't be able to carry on with their normal work, as they will all be seconded to work on the coronavirus too.

    But anyway, the Telegraph article was yesterday's news. It is encouraging to hear today from the PM that there are no plans to extend the deadline. And yes you can organise a FTA or indeed WTO arrangements for 9 months ahead regardless of the coronavirus impact on industry or travel at that time.

  5. #16305

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.
    It’s more than that. A vast amount of physical and regulatory infrastructure needs to be in place by the end of the year - even assuming there’s a Canada style deal, up to 50,000 customs alone need to be recruited and that’s the tip of the iceberg. Meanwhile even before the virus hit there were grave doubts whether the new trade arrangements for NI would be ready on time.

    Never mind all the complex regulatory agencies that the UK has set up as it will no longer be a member of EASA, Eurotom, EMA etc. Take EASA (European Union Aviation Safety regime), industry has estimated that it will take a decade to establish an equivalent authority with all the expertise of EASA in addition to higher costs.

    Of course all this assumes significant and seemingly intractable policy differences can be overcome by June when the UK has said it will consider walking away from talks if insufficient progress has been made.

    With coronavirus, businesses in UK & EU are facing the greatest challenge in decades. Temporarily parking one source of uncertainty over which the UK has control makes obvious sense. Hitting businesses with more uncertainty and a possible no deal that would put greater stress on already disrupted trade links, supply chains and workforces doesn’t. There’s a reason why sterling has tanked against not only the dollar but also the euro: Brexit has left the UK in a particularly vulnerable position to deal with shocks like coronavirus (N.B. most of our medical supplies will be in dollars or euros).

    This discussion has exposed some posters for what they really are.
    Last edited by shurlock; 18-03-2020 at 05:08 PM.

  6. #16306

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    It’s more than that. A vast amount of physical and regulatory infrastructure needs to be in place by the end of the year.....
    I know. I just didnt want to get into the nuts and bolts of it, enabling West to bluster over every point.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I know. I just didnt want to get into the nuts and bolts of it, enabling West to bluster over every point.
    It's not beyond the wit of man etc etc etc.

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    Last edited by CB Fry; 18-03-2020 at 04:05 PM.

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    Last edited by CB Fry; 18-03-2020 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Glitch

  10. #16310

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    Boris asked about the possibility of an extension, said that this had already been answered before, legislation was in place covering it, which would not be changed. Just as an aside, I think that he comes across rather well in these daily briefings.

  11. #16311

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Boris asked about the possibility of an extension, said that this had already been answered before, legislation was in place covering it, which would not be changed. Just as an aside, I think that he comes across rather well in these daily briefings.
    It was pretty much a non answer. I have been surprised by how badly he has come accross in them tbh. Sunak was superb yesterday by comparison, Boris has been mostly bluster.

  12. #16312

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    ..... Boris has been mostly bluster.
    As always.

  13. #16313

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.
    Perhaps the Telegraph were mistaken? Currently on BBC Live feed :

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic Raab
    UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has said a post-Brexit UK-EU trade deal can still be done by the end of the transition period in December 2020.

    Speaking to the Commons' Foreign Affairs Committee, Mr Raab said there was "plenty of scope" for talks "to be done through teleconferencing and remotely".

    "We don't want to extend - we want to get this done," he told MPs.

    "We also feel that with the political declaration, there is enough of a series of guidelines now, followed up by the negotiating texts, to enable this to be done in time."

    Talks due to be held this week were put on hold because of the coronavirus outbreak.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51955509

  14. #16314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Perhaps the Telegraph were mistaken?
    I think those quotes make it more likely. The certainty of 'won't' has gone and been replaced with "scope for" and "want to"

  15. #16315

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    Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?
    I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624

  16. #16316

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?
    I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624
    Nah. We're an independent nation with a proud history of standing alone dontchaknow. We'd rather starve and die from lack of medical equipment.

  17. #16317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?
    I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624
    Remoaner clutching at straws

  18. #16318

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Nah. We're an independent nation with a proud history of standing alone dontchaknow. We'd rather starve and die from lack of medical equipment.
    Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.

  19. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.
    Don't feed the traitorous trolls on here. It only encourages them to knock Britain, 17.4 million of it's population and its democratically elected government, at every opportunity.

    Now, where to panic-buy piano wire...?

  20. #16320

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.
    That would be worrying if it were true, but it isnt so I'm fine with it. The pharmaceuticals and medical equipment sector accounts for around 240,000 mostly highly paid jobs in the UK and about 10% of exports, half of which go to the EU. EU imports are around 8%. Unlike cars or TVs or phones there are often no alternative brands or generic to key drugs. Without agreed common standards in place trade grinds to a halt.

  21. #16321

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Don't feed the traitorous trolls on here. It only encourages them to knock Britain, 17.4 million of it's population and its democratically elected government, at every opportunity.

    Now, where to panic-buy piano wire...?
    Don't do it John. The problems will blow over eventually and your family will miss you.

  22. #16322

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    How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/b...-shortage.html

  23. #16323

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    That would be worrying if it were true, but it isnt so I'm fine with it. The pharmaceuticals and medical equipment sector accounts for around 240,000 mostly highly paid jobs in the UK and about 10% of exports, half of which go to the EU. EU imports are around 8%. Unlike cars or TVs or phones there are often no alternative brands or generic to key drugs. Without agreed common standards in place trade grinds to a halt.
    No, your right, who would have thought that during a world wide pandemic, trade and so on wouldn't be disrupted and country's prioritising it's own population over anothers... My God, I must wash my mouth out for telling lies.. Ohh wait nope my Google works thankfully... Try the t. Thnx.

  24. #16324

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosin View Post
    No, your right, who would have thought that during a world wide pandemic, trade and so on wouldn't be disrupted and country's prioritising it's own population over anothers... My God, I must wash my mouth out for telling lies.. Ohh wait nope my Google works thankfully... Try the t. Thnx.
    Still not grasping the issue. No country is self sufficient in healthcare products. The UK exports specialised products for specific conditions and imports others for different conditions. Drugs which might be helpful to the treatment of COVID 19 are made in Japan, Germany, Switzerland and others. Parts essential for ventilator manufacture are sourced across the world. Crashing out of the transition period before common standards are agreed would not just be stupid but potentially homicidal.

  25. #16325

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Remoaner clutching at straws
    If you think I want us to be in that position, then you are insane.

  26. #16326

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/b...-shortage.html
    High quality private healthcare?

  27. #16327

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/b...-shortage.html
    Is it because we generally have a healthier lifestyle than the fat ****ers that live in the US so haven't needed as many ventilators?

    I've not heard of a ventilator shortage before now, so presumably we've had more than enough for our needs to date - not sure it's an item you'd want to stockpile is it?

  28. #16328

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    I've not heard of a ventilator shortage before now, so presumably we've had more than enough for our needs to date - not sure it's an item you'd want to stockpile is it?
    The NHS doesnt really have any spare capacity, its assets are used close to 100% all the time. Thats great for efficiency but when you get a surge in need like this, its where the leaness / bare bones becomes apparent. Its not uncommon even in normal usage for critically ill patients to be transferred 100 miles or more in search of an available CCU bed.
    Last edited by buctootim; 20-03-2020 at 05:24 PM.

  29. #16329

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The NHS doesnt really have any spare capacity, its assets are used close to 100% all the time. Thats great for efficiency but when you get a surge in need like this, its where the leaness / bare bones becomes apparent. Its not uncommon even in normal usage for critically ill patients to be transferred 100 miles or more in search of an available CCU bed.
    I wonder how many will die because of the Tory cuts?

  30. #16330

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    I wonder how many will die because of the Tory cuts?
    Source?

  31. #16331

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Still not grasping the issue. No country is self sufficient in healthcare products. The UK exports specialised products for specific conditions and imports others for different conditions. Drugs which might be helpful to the treatment of COVID 19 are made in Japan, Germany, Switzerland and others. Parts essential for ventilator manufacture are sourced across the world. Crashing out of the transition period before common standards are agreed would not just be stupid but potentially homicidal.
    No you are not grasping the issue, my comment has nothing what so ever to do with trade AFTER brexit, it's about the here and now ( as some remainer tried to claim brexit is a reason for the lack of them atm.) . Germany is also the eu's main manufacturer of ventilators. The same ones Italy begged for but got turned down, same when they asked for masks, cleaning products and other essentials it needed to help it contain the virus.

    Instead I'd trying to claim I am wrong, do some research and Google it. The amazing eu country's refusing to help one of its own members in dire need...

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