Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Siemens and BMW are already softening their view on Brexit.

Siemens and BMW are adjusting their PR speak to changed reality. They are in Britain and Britain voted for Brexit so regardless of what they think about it they will position their business to make the best of it - which includes portraying themselves as supportive of the new situation. They will continue to emphasise how committed they are right up to the point where there make new investment decisions, just like Ford did with Turkey. I'm not saying they will definitely leave, but if the do decide to invest elsewhere they sure as hell wont be trailing it in advance.

Agree, the Mediterranean countries have a fundamentally different attitude to their duties and responsibilities as citizens. They are masters at waving the flag and demonstrating their patriotism, but when it comes to paying their taxes and contributing for the greater good they all become very shy. Their governments and politicians are incapable of enforcing their own laws. While I am in favour of the EU it is these cultural and political divides that cause such resentment amongst the electorates of the Northern European states where paying ones taxes is accepted and adhered to by the vast majority. The idea of a parallel currency system is interesting but on the face of seems impracticable. The Euro was founded on deceits and falsifications to which the Commission and Politicians turned a blind eye, indeed encouraged, to ensure their vision of an EU wide currency could be delivered, it is by far the greatest error and deceit ever perpetrated by the EU.

Yep, and this deceit is the reason so many Europeans are fed up with the current EU. The Dutch Minister of Finance during the time the euro was introduced has said he was never in favour of Greece joining as it was clear they were lying about their economy. Yet, the pressure from Brussels was too big to say no and see what happened. These kind of confessions show what kind of mess the EU really is.

I didn't mean to be offensive or critical. So let me ask you your views on these two questions - and anybody else who feels up to it.

 

Would being outside the Single Market make it...

 

a) Easier to trade with the EU

b) More difficult to trade with the EU

C) About the same

 

And regarding the rest of the world...

 

a) Easier to trade with them

b) More difficult to trade with them

C) About the same

A narrow set of questions given the complexity of the EU debate but I will humour you with my expectations:

1) will be somewhere between B and C

2) will more than likely be C

Being part of the EU was not just about ease of trade though, which is a shame really as that was one thing it got right.

Here's a hypothetical scenario and question for you / and others if they can be bothered:

The UK voted for Remain, hurrah! A year down the line, circumstances conspire that the EU insist that the UK joins the Euro. The government calls a referendum. The ballot paper reads: "Should we reject accept the euro as the UK's currency?" Yes / No.

Siemens and BMW are adjusting their PR speak to changed reality. They are in Britain and Britain voted for Brexit so regardless of what they think about it they will position their business to make the best of it - which includes portraying themselves as supportive of the new situation. They will continue to emphasise how committed they are right up to the point where there make new investment decisions, just like Ford did with Turkey. I'm not saying they will definitely leave, but if the do decide to invest elsewhere they sure as hell wont be trailing it in advance.

Agreed, it's all a bit hot air and meaningless. Siemens, in particular, were very heavy with the threats prior to the vote.

Its a moral hazard thing though isnt it. Germany is worried that if they let the Greeks off some of the debt because they really cant pay then other countries who can service their debts will just think 'why should we bother'? The other issue is that many parts of the Greek state, including tax collection, is pretty dysfunctional. If they collected what is due then they could balance the budget wouldn't have run up such massive unsustainable debts. The Germans want to see substantive progress on putting out the fire before they help with rebuilding.

Talking about a moral hazard: in the middle of the financial crisis when Greece was on it's back and needed financial help Merkel and Hollande forced them to spend billions on German U-boats and French weaponsystems in order to get the "loans" from the EU coming in. The EU is a very sick place...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-military-spending-debt-crisis

A narrow set of questions given the complexity of the EU debate but I will humour you with my expectations:

 

1) will be somewhere between B and C

2) will more than likely be C

 

Being part of the EU was not just about ease of trade though, which is a shame really as that was one thing it got right.

 

Here's a hypothetical scenario and question for you / and others if they can be bothered:

 

The UK voted for Remain, hurrah! A year down the line, circumstances conspire that the EU insist that the UK joins the Euro. The government calls a referendum. The ballot paper reads: "Should we reject accept the euro as the UK's currency?" Yes / No.

Thanks for the reply. Of course there are many other contributory factors, the exchange rate being one of the most important.

I have been held up to ridicule by some on here by saying that I thought not joining the Euro was a missed opportunity but I can understand the strength of feeling against. In my view the Single Market would be even more beneficial to us if we used the same currency with all the stability (sic) that this would bring. In order for us to extend the trading opportunities down from deals of a few hundred €s down to the tens of €s I believe that we would need a quick cheap and effective European-wide postal and parcel service but achieving this would probably be a greater challenge than establishing the Eurozone in the first place. The question is of course entirely academic since until we leave we have a full veto over anything that we don't want to do and we could never have been forced into using the Euro. Given the amount of misinformation over the recent vote there woudlbe no chance of a reasoned and balanced debate.

Again, Boeing's decision to invest in the UK is because we decided - last year - to place orders with them for P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft and new model AH-64E Apache helicopters. This has NOTHING to do with Bretix and to suggest otherwise is misleading.

I didn't mean to be offensive or critical. So let me ask you your views on these two questions - and anybody else who feels up to it.

 

Would being outside the Single Market make it...

 

a) Easier to trade with the EU

b) More difficult to trade with the EU

C) About the same

 

And regarding the rest of the world...

 

a) Easier to trade with them

b) More difficult to trade with them

C) About the same

Way too simplistic for what is a complex situation, but on face value...

The first question entirely depends on the negotiations and eventual outcome. It would be between b and c depending on how much the EU want to cut off their noses... also taking account of the fact that we are net importers when it comes to the EU.

The second question is A (eventually) on the basis that the EU has completely failed to get a trade agreement with any of the worlds top 10 economies. The French for example are blocking a deal with south american countires to protect their farmers. When 28 nations have to agree a deal, it makes it incredibly difficult to get a good deal as their are too many vested interests to take account of. Therefore it will be easier to agree deals with the rest of the world.

6 of one, half a dozen of another

The Guardian the quality newspaper we are often told on here. Using quotes from Cher to back up their story on politics lol. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/14/maybe-the-brits-are-just-having-us-on-the-world-reacts-to-boris-johnson-as-foreign-minister

Yes, you did. You also predicted that Remain would win.

That was not a prediction. This is a prediction.

I'm also predicting a Brexit win in the referendum.

Now back to my unanswered question to the Brexit fanboys. How do you reconcile this government's commitment to the internal market (as advocated for example by our new Foreign Comedian BoJo) with the 'take back control' demand for an end to free movement of people in the EU, which is a red line for Brussels?

As you Brexiters seem totally stumped, here's a brilliantly useful article which spells out how it's far, far worse than you even imagined to achieve any kind of Brexit at all. I mean ever.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

So here's my new prediction: "Brexit means Brexit" means we'll have to fudge things so that the 2020 general election becomes the mechanism for burying this whole sordid mess.

That was not a prediction. This is a prediction.

 

 

 

Now back to my unanswered question to the Brexit fanboys. How do you reconcile this government's commitment to the internal market (as advocated for example by our new Foreign Comedian BoJo) with the 'take back control' demand for an end to free movement of people in the EU, which is a red line for Brussels?

 

As you Brexiters seem totally stumped, here's a brilliantly useful article which spells out how it's far, far worse than you even imagined to achieve any kind of Brexit at all. I mean ever.

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

 

So here's my new prediction: "Brexit means Brexit" means we'll have to fudge things so that the 2020 general election becomes the mechanism for burying this whole sordid mess.

If they follow your template the Conservatives will be buried by the leave vote switching to UKIP. In the end if we will fail to reach an agreement with the EU, acceptable to the Conservative Leave voters, the Conservatives will see they have run out of time and deeply unpopular with their own supporters will panic faced with losing the 2020 GE and pull the plug on the EU. You lefties will have no effect on the result because it will be people like me that will switch to UKIP. The Conservatives fear this already so your left wing predictions just like The Conservatives not winning the 2015 GE, and Remain winning the referendum are already missing the point. The Leave voters will drive this government out of the EU sooner rather than later on their terms.

 

So here's my new prediction: "Brexit means Brexit" means we'll have to fudge things so that the 2020 general election becomes the mechanism for burying this whole sordid mess.

Pony .

We will be out of the EU by 2020.

Pony .

 

We will be out of the EU by 2020.

But in the EFTA and bound by the convention on the free movement of labour.

But in the EFTA and bound by the convention on the free movement of labour.

and contributing to the budget

with no vote

but definitely 'out'

If they follow your template the Conservatives will be buried by the leave vote switching to UKIP. In the end if we will fail to reach an agreement with the EU, acceptable to the Conservative Leave voters, the Conservatives will see they have run out of time and deeply unpopular with their own supporters will panic faced with losing the 2020 GE and pull the plug on the EU. You lefties will have no effect on the result because it will be people like me that will switch to UKIP. The Conservatives fear this already so your left wing predictions just like The Conservatives not winning the 2015 GE, and Remain winning the referendum are already missing the point. The Leave voters will drive this government out of the EU sooner rather than later on their terms.

The Conservatives only have a very small majority in the Commons so their possible courses of action are limited. For every person that wants to change to UKIP there'll be a youngster registering that wants to stay in the EU. If the Conservatives don't pull the plug prematurely they will never govern again. This was a vote to leave with a very small margin which doesn't mean that it can be discounted but does mean that the scenario you describe is unlikely.

I think May's waffle about the Union points to how she will wriggle out of Brexit. Fact is Brexit will more than likely mean the break up of the UK and even the Tories on the right will not fancy that.

I think May's waffle about the Union points to how she will wriggle out of Brexit. Fact is Brexit will more than likely mean the break up of the UK and even the Tories on the right will not fancy that.

That was my first thought too. it just didn't seem to fit into the her speech otherwise.

The government need to stimulate the economy reduce VAT would be good perhaps

Invest in infrastructure

Some suggestions I saw

Sewers are falling apart in most areas of the country, water piping systems need replacing in 50% of the country.

At least 50% of the schools are in need of significant repair.

Every hospital should be refurbished, equipped with the latest medical equipment, brought into the 21st century.

All major ports should be updated with modern container facilities.

All rivers and waterways should be reinforced and dredged to reduce the possibilities of future flooding.

All bridges and flyovers should be checked and replaced if weak, or thought to be suspect within the next 10 years.

Certain dilapidated council estates could be vacated, demolished and sustainable housing built as low cost.

Massive tree planting programs on crown, and public land would help clean up the environment, as well as reduce the propensity for flooding in some areas. Bring back the English Oak around the country.

Most public street light are archaic energy consuming, remove and replace them with high efficiency lighting, reducing the need for more power generation plants.

Multiple publically owned wind turbine projects using 'made in UK' technology and materials, might minimise the need for a Hinkley Point C.

Make work projects clearing up moors and bogs around the country, as well as environmentally polluted areas.

Massive publically owned fruit tree planting to help the clean up the environment as well as reduce the need to import fruit from EU.

Anything agricultural which would reduce having to import food into the UK.

The government need to stimulate the economy reduce VAT would be good perhaps

 

Invest in infrastructure

 

Some suggestions I saw

 

Sewers are falling apart in most areas of the country, water piping systems need replacing in 50% of the country.

 

At least 50% of the schools are in need of significant repair.

 

Every hospital should be refurbished, equipped with the latest medical equipment, brought into the 21st century.

 

All major ports should be updated with modern container facilities.

 

All rivers and waterways should be reinforced and dredged to reduce the possibilities of future flooding.

 

All bridges and flyovers should be checked and replaced if weak, or thought to be suspect within the next 10 years.

 

Certain dilapidated council estates could be vacated, demolished and sustainable housing built as low cost.

 

Massive tree planting programs on crown, and public land would help clean up the environment, as well as reduce the propensity for flooding in some areas. Bring back the English Oak around the country.

 

Most public street light are archaic energy consuming, remove and replace them with high efficiency lighting, reducing the need for more power generation plants.

 

Multiple publically owned wind turbine projects using 'made in UK' technology and materials, might minimise the need for a Hinkley Point C.

 

Make work projects clearing up moors and bogs around the country, as well as environmentally polluted areas.

 

Massive publically owned fruit tree planting to help the clean up the environment as well as reduce the need to import fruit from EU.

 

Anything agricultural which would reduce having to import food into the UK.

All good ideas but why haven't we done this before?

For all the cry baby Remainers on this thread, please dry your eyes just long enough to read this article in today's Times.

Britain is “scoping” free trade deals with 12 countries in time to leave the EU on January 1, 2019.

Australia yesterday offered to strike a deal with the UK “as soon as possible” when Theresa May spoke to Malcolm Turnbull, her counterpart in Canberra. The prime minister said the offer was proof she could “make Brexit work for Britain”.

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, also revealed that he had opened “very fruitful” negotiations with Canada on Friday. He will fly to the United States next week to ensure Britain is not at the “back of the queue”, as President Barack Obama had threatened it would be during the referendum campaign. Fox said he was “scoping about a dozen free-trade deals outside the EU to be ready for when we leave” — some with countries that have indicated they want a quick deal and others with some of the major world economies

Read the frightened posts on this thread and laugh at the Remainers that swallowed the b0ll0x that was published by the establishment.

For all the cry baby Remainers on this thread, please dry your eyes just long enough to read this article in today's Times.

 

Read the frightened posts on this thread and laugh at the Remainers that swallowed the b0ll0x that was published by the establishment.

Britain is “scoping” free trade deals with 12 countries in time to leave the EU on January 1, 2019. Australia yesterday offered to strike a deal with the UK “as soon as possible”

Better get a move on then. The last trade deal Australia struck, with China, took 10 years to negotiate.

Britain is “scoping” free trade deals with 12 countries in time to leave the EU on January 1, 2019. Australia yesterday offered to strike a deal with the UK “as soon as possible”

 

Better get a move on then. The last trade deal Australia struck, with China, took 10 years to negotiate.

Scoping is about as far as it can go - and not just because the UK is legally prohibited from signing anything until 2019 at the earliest. Oliver Letwin's admission that the British civil service had precisely zero international trade negotiators means we'll have to hire immigrants to get rid of the immigrants. Canada by contrast has 300 trained negotiators, and as skilled as they were it took seven years to reach the point where we are today, with the Canada/EU deal not quite done. Brexit means we'll have to do these incredibly complex deals dozens of times over.

Still, it'll take as long as it takes, or as long as the long grass grows. For some weird reason, Brexit's fanboys seem to think that if they have the willpower they can get it all done. In their naiveté they're about to get royally screwed over by other countries' far, far more skilled (in that they exist!) negotiating teams. I bet the American pharmaceutical industry can't wait - especially when they discover that the SoS for Brexit, David Davis, just two months ago didn't know that by law we can't negotiate with individual EU countries.

Heaven spare us these idiots.

Scoping is about as far as it can go - and not just because the UK is legally prohibited from signing anything until 2019 at the earliest. Oliver Letwin's admission that the British civil service had precisely zero international trade negotiators means we'll have to hire immigrants to get rid of the immigrants. Canada by contrast has 300 trained negotiators, and as skilled as they were it took seven years to reach the point where we are today, with the Canada/EU deal not quite done. Brexit means we'll have to do these incredibly complex deals dozens of times over.

 

Still, it'll take as long as it takes, or as long as the long grass grows. For some weird reason, Brexit's fanboys seem to think that if they have the willpower they can get it all done. In their naiveté they're about to get royally screwed over by other countries' far, far more skilled (in that they exist!) negotiating teams. I bet the American pharmaceutical industry can't wait - especially when they discover that the SoS for Brexit, David Davis, just two months ago didn't know that by law we can't negotiate with individual EU countries.

 

Heaven spare us these idiots.

More pony from the biggest remain loser on here . If you really believe that David Davis didn't know that you negotiate trade deals with the EU not individual countries within it , then you really are a complete and utter plank . If he really believed individual countries of the EU can negotiate trade deals with non EU countries , why didn't he call for the UK to do so when we were in .

EU /Canada deal took so long because The French want certain things, the Germans other things , the Italians other things . It's one of the main reasons for leaving , negotiations which please 28 countries will take a lot longer than negotiations between us and them .

The other point that you remain genius' seemed to be missing despite it being pointed out by countless of the winning team is that any country with a trade deal with the EU , by definition has a trade deal with the U.K. . If both sides are happy with the terms at present , then with a few tweaks , it's pretty much a done deal . We will not be starting from scratch .

How much business is actually done in these trade deals anyway? The company I work for makes most it's money from getting stuff made in China and sold mainly in the US. We do some business with EU countries and Russia but in the main it's made in China because they have cheapest labour and sold in the States because they have most to spend.

You can go online and buy something cheap direct from the factory in China - what 'trade deal' does that involve?

More pony from the biggest remain loser on here . If you really believe that David Davis didn't know that you negotiate trade deals with the EU not individual countries within it , then you really are a complete and utter plank . If he really believed individual countries of the EU can negotiate trade deals with non EU countries , why didn't he call for the UK to do so when we were in .

 

EU /Canada deal took so long because The French want certain things, the Germans other things , the Italians other things . It's one of the main reasons for leaving , negotiations which please 28 countries will take a lot longer than negotiations between us and them .

 

The other point that you remain genius' seemed to be missing despite it being pointed out by countless of the winning team is that any country with a trade deal with the EU , by definition has a trade deal with the U.K. . If both sides are happy with the terms at present , then with a few tweaks , it's pretty much a done deal . We will not be starting from scratch .

Can someone point me to that part of our great unwritten Constitution that says if you lose a vote you must immediately agree with those who won it?

Cast your mind back to the Scottish independence referendum. 55-45. A defeat for the YES campaign. Did the Nationalists overnight go ‘oh well, hey ho, we’re all Unionists now’? No. They accepted they lost the vote but declared that the fight for the cause they believe in goes on. The way they fought that fight contributed towards their success in the subsequent general election. Now the mess of the EU referendum means they may yet reach their goal, even more quickly than they imagined when that referendum was lost.

After New Labour did Labour’s Bennites put their hands up and say ‘sod it, might as well give up now’? If so, how the hell did Jeremy Corbyn become leader? And now that he is, have all those who see he cannot lead given up on the idea that he must be replaced? Far from it.

Similarly, did Nigel Farage, when he was in the small minority dismissed by David Cameron as fruitcakes, racists and loonies, vanish amid his succession of crushing electoral defeats? No. He kept on keeping on, until one day, alas, he won.

The lesson of all political history is you keep fighting for what you believe in.

So to all those who think the UK has made a decision of especially bad and dangerous proportions in voting to leave the EU – and they now include plenty who voted Leave – I say ‘do not give up the fight to make sure we are spared the consequences.’

More pony from the biggest remain loser on here . If you really believe that David Davis didn't know that you negotiate trade deals with the EU not individual countries within it , then you really are a complete and utter plank . If he really believed individual countries of the EU can negotiate trade deals with non EU countries , why didn't he call for the UK to do so when we were in .

 

EU /Canada deal took so long because The French want certain things, the Germans other things , the Italians other things . It's one of the main reasons for leaving , negotiations which please 28 countries will take a lot longer than negotiations between us and them .

 

The other point that you remain genius' seemed to be missing despite it being pointed out by countless of the winning team is that any country with a trade deal with the EU , by definition has a trade deal with the U.K. . If both sides are happy with the terms at present , then with a few tweaks , it's pretty much a done deal . We will not be starting from scratch .

Not sure what you mean by your middle paragraph. It's not the deals with the non-EU countries that matter, rather the deal with the 27.

As for the last paragraph, they had a deal with the EU, they won't have one with us and legally we can't begin to negotiate one until we have legally left the EU.

....legally we can't begin to negotiate one until we have legally left the EU.

Total b0ll0x as usual. Have another Werthers Original and go and have a lie down, won't you. Of course we can negotiate deals before we leave the EU. As the article you didn't bother to read says:

Britain cannot legally sign trade deals of its own until it ceases to be a member of the EU. But in a sign that cabinet Brexiteers want to move fast to get out of the EU, Fox said he would line up deals that would be ready to sign the day the UK leaves — dubbed “B-Day” in Whitehall — by January 1, 2019. He said: “That’s the date I’m working to, which could be brought forward if necessary.”

None as blind as those that won't see...

legally we can't begin to negotiate one until we have legally left the EU.

I think you just made that up. Sure we can't sign a binding new agreement while we're still bound by our EU obligations, but we can talk to whoever the hell we like about whatever the hell we want to.

More pony from the biggest remain loser on here . If you really believe that David Davis didn't know that you negotiate trade deals with the EU not individual countries within it , then you really are a complete and utter plank . If he really believed individual countries of the EU can negotiate trade deals with non EU countries , why didn't he call for the UK to do so when we were in .

 

EU /Canada deal took so long because The French want certain things, the Germans other things , the Italians other things . It's one of the main reasons for leaving , negotiations which please 28 countries will take a lot longer than negotiations between us and them .

 

The other point that you remain genius' seemed to be missing despite it being pointed out by countless of the winning team is that any country with a trade deal with the EU , by definition has a trade deal with the U.K. . If both sides are happy with the terms at present , then with a few tweaks , it's pretty much a done deal . We will not be starting from scratch .

Only a person with little or no economics understanding would be clasping at straws like you most economists think that the day after the referendum was probably the single worst event in British postwar history but life does go on and the country will be poor both economically and poorer from BREXIT as we get involved in trade deals with the rest of the world which will take some time to come in to operation.

I think you just made that up. Sure we can't sign a binding new agreement while we're still bound by our EU obligations, but we can talk to whoever the hell we like about whatever the hell we want to.

Yes of course we can talk but we cannot negoiate and that takes time

If you really believe that David Davis didn't know that you negotiate trade deals with the EU not individual countries within it , then you really are a complete and utter plank.

Oh dear:

The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal

 

— David Davis MP (@DavidDavisMP) May 26, 2016

(1/3) Post #Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else

 

— David Davis MP (@DavidDavisMP) May 26, 2016

(2/3) Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations

 

— David Davis MP (@DavidDavisMP) May 26, 2016

(3/3) France would want to protect £3bn of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1bn fashion exports. Poland its £3bn manufacturing exports

 

— David Davis MP (@DavidDavisMP) May 26, 2016

Care to retract?

Oh dear:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Care to retract?

If you think that means Davis thinks we can do deals with individual EU nations you are deluded . He is just stating that any EU wide deal will include protection against tarrifs for German car makers , French wine makers and others . He never claimed we could do separate trade deals with France , Germany or whoever . The way the EU works, and why trade deals take so long , is countries protect their pet industries within the overall trade deal. That was clearly what he was talking about

Total b0ll0x as usual. Have another Werthers Original and go and have a lie down, won't you. Of course we can negotiate deals before we leave the EU. As the article you didn't bother to read says:

 

 

None as blind as those that won't see...

Less of the childish insults please. I know what I read but I also read many other sources which is how I get a balanced and realistic view of the situation. I could retort with puerile comments of my own but I prefer to have an adult civilised discussion.

Legally (you may have missed that word) we cannot negotiate with anybody until we have left. Of course we can have informal chats but these are not the same thing as a formal discussion.

In any case, having a trade deal in place does not necessarily mean that there will be any trade taking place. What circumstances do you expect whereby trading with the rest of the world will be easier/less costly/quicker than it is today? Why do you expect that dealing with the EU will be any better than our current situation? These are serious questions and I would be interested in your serious answers.

Yes of course we can talk but we cannot negoiate and that takes time

Not if we already have a trade deal it doesn't

If you think that means Davis thinks we can do deals with individual EU nations you are deluded . He is just stating that any EU wide deal will include protection against tarrifs for German car makers , French wine makers and others . He never claimed we could do separate trade deals with France , Germany or whoever . The way the EU works, and why trade deals take so long , is countries protect their pet industries within the overall trade deal. That was clearly what he was talking about

It clearly wasn't.

Total b0ll0x as usual. Have another Werthers Original and go and have a lie down, won't you. Of course we can negotiate deals before we leave the EU. As the article you didn't bother to read says:

 

 

None as blind as those that won't see...

Sorry pal it's illegal to start or conduct bilateral negotiations while the UK is still a member of the EU. It the UK hopes to do so, it will require authorisation from the EU. Not saying it won't happen but it's far from automatic that will happen and assumes goodwill that has to date been in short supply.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Sorry pal it's illegal to start or conduct bilateral negotiations while the UK is still a member of the EU. It the UK hopes to do so, it will require authorisation from the EU. Not saying it won't happen but it's far from automatic that will happen and assumes goodwill that has to date been in short supply.

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

There is no legal precedent for what happens once a member state triggers article 50. It's a whole new ball game.

There is no legal precedent for what happens once a member state triggers article 50. It's a whole new ball game.

The law would appear quite clear; there is, however, no political precedent.

Would not worry. It is going to be totally de-railed by the Sturgeon.

But in the EFTA and bound by the convention on the free movement of labour.

I think you mean the EEA I didn't think EFTA was bound by the convention on free movement...actually neither is EEA but if you don't sign up to it you don't get into the single market

It clearly wasn't.

So you think a guy who was minister of state for Europe under John Major , has spent years writing and researching the uk's relationship with Europe , and has now been made the minister for Brexit , thought that the uk could do trade deals with individual EU states . Dear god , do you really believe half the pony you come out with .

I think you mean the EEA I didn't think EFTA was bound by the convention on free movement...actually neither is EEA but if you don't sign up to it you don't get into the single market

"The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation covering the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital — throughout the 31 EEA States. In addition, the Agreement covers cooperation in other important areas such as research and development, education, social policy, the environment, consumer protection, tourism and culture, collectively known as “flanking and horizontal” policies. The Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA."

As EFTA member states are also members of the EEA, they are therefore bound by the 'four freedoms'.

http://www.efta.int/eea

So you think a guy who was minister of state for Europe under John Major , has spent years writing and researching the uk's relationship with Europe , and has now been made the minister for Brexit , thought that the uk could do trade deals with individual EU states . Dear god , do you really believe half the pony you come out with .

The pony wants to know what deal would this be then ?

"The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal".

Sorry pal it's illegal to start or conduct bilateral negotiations while the UK is still a member of the EU. It the UK hopes to do so, it will require authorisation from the EU. Not saying it won't happen but it's far from automatic that will happen and assumes goodwill that has to date been in short supply.

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

Does it matter if we break EU law when we are leaving anyway?

 

The pony wants to know what deal would this be then ?

"The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal".

Common sense . The Germans are the people that matter . It was Merkal that put the mockers on Daves " reformed EU" and it'll be The Germans that'll get us a decent trade deal.

Does it matter if we break EU law when we are leaving anyway?

Well, they might kick us out for breaking the rules.......Maybe thats a way of avoiding the 2 year delay with A50.

Well, they might kick us out for breaking the rules.......Maybe thats a way of avoiding the 2 year delay with A50.

The EU don't worry about rules , if they did Greece & Italy wouldn't have been allowed in the Euro

So you think a guy who was minister of state for Europe under John Major , has spent years writing and researching the uk's relationship with Europe , and has now been made the minister for Brexit , thought that the uk could do trade deals with individual EU states . Dear god , do you really believe half the pony you come out with .

You would be surprised how clueless some of our major politicians are. I remember Tony Benn in a TV discussion thinking that the BofE base rate was what businesses actually had to pay. Some of these people are not very bright, I've met quite a few and some things have to be explained in very short words. Anyway, it's not just me:

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/07/britains-new-brexit-minister-david-davis-doesnt-even-understand-how-eu-does-trade-deals/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/minister-for-brexit-davis-davis-eu-european-union-germany-single-market-trade-deals-unaware-mistake-a7136121.html