Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Me too.

 

It's ridiculous but has obvious appeal to the "open minded".

Or the likes of the incredibly unbiased and even-handed "Bexy." Lets just believe that the Tory scum are a bunch of evil geniuses concocting a plan so diabolical and underhanded it would make Machiavelli jealous because some random person wrote about it on Twitter.

Have we left yet?

Les, JJ and LD you’re famous!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/07/gammon-added-collins-dictionary-word-year/

Gammon

The thing is that a lot of it is perfectly believable, because there is already a lot stuff we already know which backs up aspects of it. For instance:

 

The govt have already voted to grant themselves Henry VIII powers - I don't really know what that means but it doesn't bother me currently... should it? can you enlighten me?

Liam Fox has already been in talks with the US over trade deals - Good. In my opinion we should have done this from the day after the vote. One of the main silver linings to leaving is that we can strike our own trade deals. Best get cracking, its in all our interests?

Theresa May has already publicly threatened to turn the UK into a tax haven if we don't get a deal - Is this a that bad of a thing? Will bring jobs and work into the country, and is a good negotiating tactic if nothing else - we've been generally quite poor on that front though!

All of the rhetoric so far has been that the blame for failure to yet agree a deal is solely the fault of the EU - When negotiating for a deal, do you start off telling the other party they are right?!?!?! Regardless of the truth of it, you take a hard stance from the outset or you get a naff deal.

 

I've followed this guy for a while now and he has been spot on with his snippets and revelations numerous times. I have no reason to simply dismiss him out of hand, and as extreme as some of it may sound, none of it would surprise me when you look at who is driving it all.

 

But yes, I am also mindful of the old saying "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence". And let's face it, "competent" is never a word you would use to describe this sh*tshow of a government. - Agreed, our government is not functioning particularly well. A weak PM and a the worst opposition I am likely to live through!

I'll say one thing. Brexit will be better for the country than if Labour / Peoples Vote manage to force a GE and topple the government. Would cause more delays, economic carnage, and lead to an even worse deal. All IHO. Its done, time to crack on with it. And if the government step to far out of line they'd be gone PDQ due to their laughable minority position.

Our dear Brexit secretary admitting that he didn't fully appreciate how important the Dover-Calais crossing is to our international trade.

In the words of CB Fry - Jesus f*cking wept!

 

Our dear Brexit secretary admitting that he didn't fully appreciate how important the Dover-Calais crossing is to our international trade.

 

In the words of CB Fry - Jesus f*cking wept!

We have the Northern Ireland Secretary admitting that she didn't know that Nationalists didn't vote for Unionist parties and vice-versa and then Caroline Nokes, responsible for border security, saying that she's never read the Good Friday Agreement.

Where do they find these people? I suppose it's our fault for electing the idiots.

I know that it's a fundamental principle of democracy that anyone can be elected to Parliament but surely there should be some form of check before someone is appointed as a Minister. Maybe a chat with a senior Civil Servant who can try and find out if they've got aptitude for the proposed post.

 

Our dear Brexit secretary admitting that he didn't fully appreciate how important the Dover-Calais crossing is to our international trade.

 

In the words of CB Fry - Jesus f*cking wept!

I am struck, every time I drive to St. Mary's, the size of the container ships sailing in and out of Southampton. Dover? Give me a break. That tinpot port may be important to our trade with Northern France, but important to our international trade? Give me a break. If we shut Dover down tomorrow, it would only be a disaster to Calais, not the UK.

And, just to back up my post:

According to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

We have the Northern Ireland Secretary admitting that she didn't know that Nationalists didn't vote for Unionist parties and vice-versa and then Caroline Nokes, responsible for border security, saying that she's never read the Good Friday Agreement.

 

Where do they find these people? I suppose it's our fault for electing the idiots.

 

I know that it's a fundamental principle of democracy that anyone can be elected to Parliament but surely there should be some form of check before someone is appointed as a Minister. Maybe a chat with a senior Civil Servant who can try and find out if they've got aptitude for the proposed post.

The pay is **** so it attracts mainly:

- people for whom money is largely no object; and / or

- people who are unlikely to succeed at anything else and are a bit odd.

Trust a simpleton to simplify a problem: Southampton largely handles liquid bulk (crude oil, liquified gas, oil products etc) which, as an undifferentiated commodity, is far easier to check from a customs perspective. Dover is the UK’s busiest port for roll-on roll off freight -roads good vehicles and import/exports of motor vehicles and UK ports still handle much more roll-on roll-off cargo than lift-on lift-off i.e. containerised cargo.

I am struck, every time I drive to St. Mary's, the size of the container ships sailing in and out of Southampton. Dover? Give me a break. That tinpot port may be important to our trade with Northern France, but important to our international trade? Give me a break. If we shut Dover down tomorrow, it would only be a disaster to Calais, not the UK.

Where would the nearly 7000 trucks that cross every day go? Which other Channel port has the infrastructure or capacity?

Trust a simpleton to simplify a problem: Southampton largely handles liquid bulk (crude oil, liquified gas, oil products etc) which, as an undifferentiated commodity, is far easier to check from a customs perspective. Dover is the UK’s busiest port for roll-on roll off freight -roads good vehicles and import/exports of motor vehicles and UK ports still handle much more roll-on roll-off cargo than lift-on lift-off i.e. containerised cargo.

Southampton is actually the leading port for the import and export of motor vehicles.

Southampton is actually the leading port for the import and export of motor vehicles.

I’m talking about roll-on roll-off freight which includes but is not limited to the import and export of motor vehicles.

Southampton is actually the leading port for the import and export of motor vehicles.

Please don't quote the chump. Dover /Calais important to our international trade? As in 6 f***ing percent of it. Simple, but true...

Dover ..????

The leading UK ports handling cars, both export and import, include Southampton, Bristol, Grimsby and Immingham, Tilbury, Sheerness, Tyne, Liverpool, and Belfast. Southampton and Grimsby and Immingham are the two leading UK ports in terms of the number of cars being handled, at about 1 million annually.

Please don't quote the chump. Dover /Calais important to our international trade? As in 6 f***ing percent of it. Simple, but true...

You’ve made a fool again of yourself JJ - other than being a sadist I don’t know why you subject yourself to such repeated embarrassment.

If you want to add up freight by tonnage (the basis of your little 6% number) and make absolutely zero distinction between simple bulk freight (crude oil, coal, gravel, cement powder etc) on the one hand and more differentiated, complex goods which are still largely handled through roll-on roll-off services on the other, fill your boots. However to the rest of us, you look a bit dim and out of your depth.

Dover is the UK’s largest ro-ro port by a country mile. FACT.

Dover isn’t. Inside info.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dover isn’t. Inside info.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know Dover isn't an important UK port for international trade, the DTI knows it isn't an important UK port for international trade. Roll on roll off shurlock lost the argument, so has started a completely different one to the one I humiliated him with

You know Dover isn't an important UK port for international trade, the DTI knows it isn't an important UK port for international trade. Roll on roll off shurlock lost the argument, so has started a completely different one to the one I humiliated him with

Thank f**k we’ll have enough gravel and coal in the case of a no deal.

As usual you haven’t got a clue. Why do you make it so easy for me

Btw it’s DfT not DTI - the latter hasn’t existed for more than a decade you plum.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/739789/port-freight-statistics-2017.pdf

Page 17; Top 10 UK major ports handing Ro-Ro main freight, and 2016 to 2017 comparison

2016) #1 Dover

2017) #1 Dover

"Ro-Ro main freight tonnage passing through UK major ports has been steadily increasing since

2013. Between 2013 to 2017 this rose 14% to 100.8 million tonnes. Dover also saw a rise in 2017,

rising 9% to 2.9 million units in 2017, retaining its position as the largest Ro-Ro port in the UK.

This is also the largest increase of any port in this category."

You know Dover isn't an important UK port for international trade....

What is trade with the EU if it is not 'International' ?

According to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Again...according to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Yet again ....according to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

92 % of trade passes through ports other than Southampton.

( Repeat ad nauseam )

Yet again ....according to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Any f**kwit can use google -you’re living proof of it JJ. It doesn’t mean they understand the figures, how they are derived and what they mean.

There is a world of difference between handling bulk commodities and complex goods -both in terms of the customs checks they require and their value-added.

When we focus on the ports that handle trade in manufacturing goods predominantly via roll-on roll-off and containerised lift-on lift-off services, ports like Dover become much more important: the recent House of Lords report estimates that Dover handles up to 17% of the UK’s trade in goods, second only to Felixstowe (and to repeat Dover is the country’s largest ro-ro port). Southampton handles about 6% of that trade according to the DfT.

Your head might be full of cement and gravel pal; but they don’t make the rest of the world go round.

92 % of trade passes through ports other than Southampton.

 

( Repeat ad nauseam )

More trade passes through Southampton than Dover.

More trade passes through Southampton than Dover.

Not ro-ro.

Any f**kwit can use google -you’re living proof of it JJ. It doesn’t mean they understand the figures, how they are derived and what they mean.

 

There is a world of difference between handling bulk commodities and complex goods -both in terms of the customs checks they require and their value-added.

 

When we focus on the ports that handle trade in manufacturing goods predominantly via roll-on roll-off and containerised lift-on lift-off services, ports like Dover become much more important: the recent House of Lords report estimates that Dover handles up to 17% of the UK’s trade in goods, second only to Felixstowe (and to repeat Dover is the country’s largest ro-ro port). Southampton handles about 6% of that trade according to the DfT.

 

Your head might be full of cement and gravel pal; but they don’t make the rest of the world go round.

Cement and gravel? Your knowledge of Southampton docks is limited by your visits to St. Marys. Mine is by an intelligence sharpened by a high IQ and years of living in God's country, pal, not Google. Mind you, while we're on Google, here's an extract that may help you troll boy, then you're back on ignore for being a well known w@nkstain...

Southampton is the UK’s biggest export port,with over £40bn of UK manufactured goods exported from Southampton each year – 90% of these goods are exported outside the EU. Over 900,000 cars passed through the port in 2015, 60% of these for export - Southampton plays a critical part in the supply chain for the British Automotive industry as it seeks to access global markets. A third of the cars exported from Southampton arrive by rail.

Cement and gravel....

Not ro-ro.

Southampton is larger than Dover in terms of freight tonnage (34.5m vs 27.5m in 2017) but most of this cargo (62%) is liquid bulk.

Not ro-ro.

To recap:

According to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Just to recap:

Southampton is the UK’s biggest export port, with over £40bn of UK manufactured goods exported from Southampton each year

Cement and gravel? Your knowledge of Southampton docks is limited by your visits to St. Marys. Mine is by an intelligence sharpened by a high IQ and years of living in God's country, pal, not Google. Mind you, while we're on Google, here's an extract that may help you troll boy, then you're back on ignore for being a well known w@nkstain...

 

 

 

Cement and gravel....

Exhibit XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX1 that you're a monumental f**kwit

Freight for Southampton in 2017 was 34.5 million tonnes - 23.6 million tonnes (68%) was liquid and dry bulk and 10.9 million tonnes (32%) was ro-ro and lo-lo freight.

Freight for Dover in 2017 was 26.2 million tones - 289.000 tonnes (1%) was liquid and dry bulk and 25.9 million tonnes (99%) was ro-ro and lo-lo freight.

I'll leave the frantic googling to you pal. I've downloaded the actual data from DfT (file extension port0304.ods).

The figures speak for themselves pal - the majority of Southampton's trade is in liquid and dry bulk whereas its trade in manufacturing goods via ro-ro and containerised lo-lo services is smaller than Dover (10.9m tonnes vs. 25.9m tonnes).

Head full of cement, gravel and crude oil (if it makes you feel better) indeed

Southampton Port is set for a record export year with 950,000 vehicles to pass through its docks, a six per cent increase on 2016. Vehicles including Mini and Jaguar cars, along with JCBs and John Deere tractors, are among the shipments to pass through the port. Southampton is the UK's biggest export port, handling £40 billion worth of exports every year. Last year it also played host to two million cruise passengers and more than 20 million tonnes of oil products.

Gareth Lewis, communications manager at Associated British Ports, said the port is due to benefit this year from a £50 million investment to improve its export capacity. He added: "Construction on the first two of four planned new vehicle handling facilities is completing. "The investment, announced in September last year, is evidence of ABP's confidence in the future of the UK automotive manufacturing industry and will create a further 15,000 spaces at the port, principally for export vehicles." "Apart from this, we ship shed loads of cement and gravel from tiny coastal ships that tourists may have seen loading from a tiny dock, opposite St. Marys Stadium" Gareth said. "Only a cluless w@nkstain of a football fan would think that represents the goods passing through Southampton"

TBF, GM is being ****ing pwned here. It's like lambs to the slaughter.

Southampton Port is set for a record export year with 950,000 vehicles to pass through its docks, a six per cent increase on 2016. Vehicles including Mini and Jaguar cars, along with JCBs and John Deere tractors, are among the shipments to pass through the port. Southampton is the UK's biggest export port, handling £40 billion worth of exports every year. Last year it also played host to two million cruise passengers and more than 20 million tonnes of oil products.

 

Gareth Lewis, communications manager at Associated British Ports, said the port is due to benefit this year from a £50 million investment to improve its export capacity. He added: "Construction on the first two of four planned new vehicle handling facilities is completing. "The investment, announced in September last year, is evidence of ABP's confidence in the future of the UK automotive manufacturing industry and will create a further 15,000 spaces at the port, principally for export vehicles." "Apart from this, we ship shed loads of cement and gravel from tiny coastal ships that tourists may have seen loading from a tiny dock, opposite St. Marys Stadium" Gareth said. "Only a cluless w@nkstain of a football fan would think that represents the goods passing through Southampton"

And I'm sure those 950,000 vehicles take pride of place in the 10.9 million tonnes of ro-ro and lo-lo freight that Southampton handled in 2017. It doesn't change the FACT that its still significantly smaller than the 25.9m tonnes of freight that Dover handled over the same period

The gravel and cement reference was a gag and its certainly landed The more serious point is that Southampton's main cargo by freight tonnage is liquid bulk (crude oil), a basic, undifferentiated commodity. It may not be sexy or glamorous work but someone's got to do it. At least its not Grimsby & Immingham.

And I'm sure those 950,000 vehicles take pride of place in the 10.9 million tonnes of ro-ro and lo-lo freight that Southampton handled in 2017. It doesn't change the FACT that its still significantly smaller than the 25.9m tonnes of freight that Dover handled over the same period

 

The gravel and cement reference was a gag and its certainly landed The more serious point is that Southampton's main cargo by freight tonnage is liquid bulk (crude oil), a basic, undifferentiated commodity. It may not be sexy or glamorous work but someone's got to do it. At least its not Grimsby & Immingham.

Southampton is larger than Dover in terms of freight tonnage (34.5m vs 27.5m in 2017) but most of this cargo (62%) is liquid bulk.

That's because Fawley Refinery is included in the Port of Southampton

Can Dover that is the closest large port to Europe be compared to ours? I think that is a tad harsh, I assume that doesn't include the Tunnel?

Its not me, its GM who called Dover a tinpot port compared to Southampton.

[TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]2017[/TD]

[TD]Million Tonnes[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Grimsby & Immingham[/TD]

[TD]54.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]London[/TD]

[TD]49.9[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Southampton[/TD]

[TD]34.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool[/TD]

[TD]32.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Milford Haven[/TD]

[TD]32.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Felixstowe[/TD]

[TD]29.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tees & Hartlepool[/TD]

[TD]28.4[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Forth[/TD]

[TD]27.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tinpot Dover[/TD]

[TD]26.2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Belfast[/TD]

[TD]18.2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]All other UK major ports[/TD]

[TD]138.3[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

And finally, to recap:

According to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Game, set & match...

Who are ya, who are ya...

[TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]2017[/TD]

[TD]Million Tonnes[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Grimsby & Immingham[/TD]

[TD]54.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]London[/TD]

[TD]49.9[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Southampton[/TD]

[TD]34.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool[/TD]

[TD]32.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Milford Haven[/TD]

[TD]32.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Felixstowe[/TD]

[TD]29.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tees & Hartlepool[/TD]

[TD]28.4[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Forth[/TD]

[TD]27.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tinpot Dover[/TD]

[TD]26.2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Belfast[/TD]

[TD]18.2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]All other UK major ports[/TD]

[TD]138.3[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

And finally, to recap:

 

 

 

Game, set & match...

Bury your head in the sand or gravel all you want little fella, it only makes you look more silly and desperate.

The figures you posted are public knowledge and not in dispute. Indeed, I've drawn on them myself. But as I've also said, only f**kwits look at figures without understanding how they were derived or what they mean.

To repeat: there is a world of difference between handling bulk commodities and complex goods -both in terms of the customs checks they require and their value-added. Aggregate figures wont tell what kind of cargo a port handles. To this effect I provided you more granular data with a breakdown by cargo type: having been unable to maintain your argument on those grounds, you've now retreated to your initial position, so we're all the way back at square one.

I'll be merciful and leave things there -suffice to add that most of Grimsby & Immingham's trade is in liquid and dry bulk (65%).

Long live gravel, coal, cement (and other bulk)!!!

I'll be merciful and leave things there

Careful Shurlock, with GM's record he will most likely view this as a sign that you are conceding the argument and that he has in fact 'won'.

It's like playing chess with a pigeon.

Interesting exchanges on the position of Dover in relation to UK trade.

I was at a Conference meeting back in May in London.

Attending were representatives of the Port of Dover who explained that the movement of primarily intra european goods through the port is virtually seamless under current EU arrangements eg documentary checks are extremely rapid.

Based on past experiences, relating to strikes in France, any hold up in cargo clearance procedures has significant adverse effects on the flow of vehicles.

I cant remember all the detail but seem to recollect that even a one minute delay in processing paperwork would delay movement of cargo and this would lead to queues either side of the Channel requiring constant fall back to 'Operation Stack' on the M2.

This would obviously affect movement of cargo on both sides of the Channel.

The concern expressed by many at the Conference that the flow of cargo carried by regular RO/RO carriers across the Channel is largely 'Just in Time' goods eg parts for the car industry and other manufacturing industries in the UK.

Food and medicines are other important goods we rely on for our wellbeing.

There is the option to disperse the reliance on the Dover/Calais crossing by spreading movement of RO/RO goods through other suitably equipped UK ports )possibly along the east coast) but there would be challenges involved undertaking such reorganisation quickly and there would be additional cost implications caused by the change in logistic arrangements.

With regard to Southampton, most of the trade seems to be more deep sea (ie primarily inbound containers from Asia and cars outbound to US, Asia, Australasia etc, although there are some Renaults inbound from France and Spain and Ford Transits from Turkey) so there should not be any significant issues caused by delays in clearance.

However summing up, I am surprised that a Govt Minister (ie Dominic Raub) had not been briefed on the importance of the Dover/Calais trade connection.

Quite worrying.

Careful Shurlock, with GM's record he will most likely view this as a sign that you are conceding the argument and that he has in fact 'won'.

 

It's like playing chess with a pigeon.

My argument was with you, not Herbert Von W@nkstain, who make up his own arguments with his rapidly shrinking audience. Just to recap, as you obviously have the recall of a goldfish:

Our dear Brexit secretary admitting that he didn't fully appreciate how important the Dover-Calais crossing is to our international trade.

In the words of CB Fry - Jesus f*cking wept!

My reply:

I am struck, every time I drive to St. Mary's, the size of the container ships sailing in and out of Southampton. Dover? Give me a break. That tinpot port may be important to our trade with Northern France, but important to our international trade? Give me a break. If we shut Dover down tomorrow, it would only be a disaster to Calais, not the UK.

And, just to back up my post:

According to the Department for Transport, 94 percent of trade and traffic passing through UK ports moves through ports other than Dover. The perceived problems our ports are facing are often overstated, and in some cases unfounded.

Pigeon 1:Goldfish 0

With regard to Southampton, most of the trade seems to be more deep sea (ie primarily inbound containers from Asia and cars outbound to US, Asia, Australasia etc, although there are some Renaults inbound from France and Spain and Ford Transits from Turkey) so there should not be any significant issues caused by delays in clearance.

I think you'll find the majority of goods passing through Southampton consist of gravel and cement....

I think you'll find the majority of goods passing through Southampton consist of gravel and cement....

I have to say I admire Jihadi John's determination to hang on, limpet-like, to his inability to interpret data. He's a bit like a man falling from a tall building clinging on to a napkin because he thinks it'll come in handy as a parachute. I wonder what the outcome will be?

GM

Depends on how you break down the cargo figures.~

The rule of thumb has always been:

1. Oil & related products apprx 25 million tonnes

(via Fawley & BP Hamble)

2. General Cargo

Ie non liquid bulk) apprx 10million tonnes

(included within the 10 million tonnes is +/- 800k tonnes of bulk material (mainly imported sand and gravel and exported scrap) from the river wharves on the Itchen and the Lafarge facility at Marchwood.

btw there is no cement handled. The sand and gravel goes into the cement plant on the Itchen to be used in the cement processing procedure.

Apologies for being pedantic on this but many years ago I was involved in submitting trade information to the Dept of Transport and I doubt if the stats have changed that much in recent years.

I think you'll find the majority of goods passing through Southampton consist of gravel and cement....

Southampton largely handles liquid bulk. FACT.

By contrast, only a third of the freight it handles is lo-lo or ro-ro freight -what one typically thinks about when one thinks about trade in manufacturing goods. It's clearly important but in absolute and relative terms, it is smaller than Dover. FACT.

As you can't or won't disprove this, one can only conclude that you've made a weapons-grade tit of yourself.

And when was international trade not EU trade? Maybe ask Santa for an atlas or globe this crimbo. The EU accounts for 55% of all international cargo moved (some of that comes from outside the EU via Rotterdam).

Spyinthesky's post is particularly interesting insofar as it points out that much of the cargo transported by ro-ro carriers is just-in-time production parts - all part and parcel of a sophisticated, interdependent, 21st century economy that requires customs procedures that are as frictionless as possible.

And they say the jihadists want to take us back to the stone age. Or is it gravel age?

Thanks for the easy pickings JJ. Chin up pal. Maybe next time

Brexit really has bought out the ****wittery in everyday people.

Who gives a **** if Dover or whereever is the biggest port. It smacks of My dad is harder than yours.