View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    26 20.16%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    7 5.43%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.55%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    74 57.36%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    5 3.88%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    2 1.55%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 3.10%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.55%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    7 5.43%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #12151

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    Could GM's much-heralded collapse of Deutsche Bank be getting nearer.... http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ar-reparations ?

  2. #12152

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Could GM's much-heralded collapse of Deutsche Bank be getting nearer.... http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ar-reparations ?
    Yeah but then Greece would be debt free and his other collapse prediction would evaporate. Choices choices. Poor GM. .

  3. #12153

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    Teresa May says that there is no reason why the UK cannot leave the EU well before the new October deadline.......,..once MPs have agreed to pass the "deal" that they have already rejected 3 times.

  4. #12154

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    So how many forum members marched in this one?

    Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations


    https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/176...-frustrations/

  5. #12155

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    So how many forum members marched in this one?

    Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations


    https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/176...-frustrations/
    Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.

  6. #12156

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.
    I thought Les attended?

  7. #12157

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.
    Those on this forum should have been at the Bournemouth game rather than fannying around in town.

  8. #12158

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    So how many forum members marched in this one?

    Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations


    https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/176...-frustrations/
    Shurlock was there. CONFIRMED

  9. #12159

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    So how many forum members marched in this one?

    https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/176...-frustrations/
    52% of forum members marched. I hear that a few want to march again though as they didn't properly understand what they were doing first time around.

  10. #12160

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecuk268 View Post
    Those on this forum should have been at the Bournemouth game rather than fannying around in town.
    On the money this one!.......Kim Rose or whoever's on the remain side, I bet neither were worth hearing compared to facing the begging bowl boverers.

  11. #12161

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    So then, where to now?

  12. #12162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    So then, where to now?
    She has stuck a spoon into the dog's breakfast, given it a stir, and served it up as something new. It will be rejected, again, and then it will be "no deal", which Parliament has already said is unacceptable, or revoke A50. The diversion of the EU elections will throw some bile, hate, and spite into the debate, May will be replaced, but I don't think that we will leave this side of a hastily arranged GE.

  13. #12163

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    There was commentator on tv last night saying any new PM will need some kind of mandate for such a constitutional change - either a general election or a referendum. Since a new PM wouldn't want to risk their position in the top job by having a GE then a referendum becomes more likely when May goes. .

  14. #12164

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    During PMQs just now, Mark Francois has pointed to the press gallery, shaking his head and run his finger along his throat like a knife. Good lad.

  15. #12165

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    During PMQs just now, Mark Francois has pointed to the press gallery, shaking his head and run his finger along his throat like a knife. Good lad.
    Disgraceful.

    And stupid. One way not to guarantee a sympathetic write-up.

  16. #12166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Disgraceful.

    And stupid. One way not to guarantee a sympathetic write-up.
    You're not going to be so naive as to believe that the Remoaner media would give Brexit supporting MPs a sympathetic write-up under any circumstances, surely? Let alone in defending our servicemen from prosecution for their actions during the troubles in Northern Ireland?

    The more unsympathetic they are to prominent Brexiteers, the more support the Leave vote receives, so carry on dissing them, please.

  17. #12167

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    Default EU Elections - Thursday 23 May 2019

    Excited Les?

    Last edited by shurlock; 22-05-2019 at 08:22 PM.

  18. #12168

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Excited Les?
    Yes. Can't wait for tomorrow. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve.

    I bet that you're looking forward to the EU Election result too, eh? Who will you be voting for? Change UK? The Greens? Lib Dumbs? Surely not Labour.

  19. #12169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Yes. Can't wait for tomorrow. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve.
    Expecting far more than will ever be delivered.

  20. #12170

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    I vote in the West Midlands and a certain Rupert Lowe is top of the Brexit Party list.

  21. #12171

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Expecting far more than will ever be delivered.
    I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.

  22. #12172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.
    How you doing Les? You've been missed. x

  23. #12173

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Excited Les?

    Nigel really should wipe his face properly after giving Aaron and Vladimir a personal thank you

  24. #12174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.
    I'm sad for you, based on your posting history on this thread, and that Brexit is likely to never live up to your expectations.

  25. #12175

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    I'm sad for you, based on your posting history on this thread, and that Brexit is likely to never live up to your expectations.
    I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.
    For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today

  26. #12176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.
    For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today
    Really? Right now I'd say that the UK's chance of actually leaving the EU is about 30/70. The people may want to leave but the parliamentarians don't. That's why Gina Miller's court action has probably sounded the death knell for Brexit.
    Last edited by Window Cleaner; 23-05-2019 at 09:46 AM.

  27. #12177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.
    For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today
    Haven't voted yet - haven't decided TBH. Probs Lib Dems, or Greens.

    Doesn't really matter though - we'll see loads of people voting for a racist, enabled by racists, because that's what the country is nowadays. Be interesting to see the split though, those voting right, and those voting racist.

  28. #12178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Window Cleaner View Post
    Really? Right now I'd say that the UK's chance of actually leaving the EU is about 30/70. The people may want to leave but the parliamentarians don't. That's why Gina Miller's court action has probably sounded the death knell for Brexit.
    He was going to come back and gloat on the 29th March, so I really wouldn't trust in any of Wes's predictions - they've been pretty bad so far.

  29. #12179

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    Come on then..... May or Leadsom?

    If you HAD to.

  30. #12180

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Come on then..... May or Leadsom?

    If you HAD to.
    Definitely Leadsom, looks like a bit of a goer (can I still say that!!)

  31. #12181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today
    Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.
    Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?

  32. #12182

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.
    Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?
    It's actually the absolute opposite of anti-democratic...

  33. #12183

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    I voted the other week.

    who do we think will win this (pointless) election?

  34. #12184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    I voted the other week.

    who do we think will win this (pointless) election?
    Clearly Brexit party.

  35. #12185

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Clearly Brexit party.
    interesting. Another vote regarding the EU and "brexit" will romp home this time.
    Either way, what a mess this has become.

    How long before MPs defect to the Brexit Party?
    CHUK or what ever they are* have set the precedent on that front.


    *an utter irrelevance is what they are
    Last edited by Batman; 23-05-2019 at 11:11 AM.

  36. #12186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    interesting. Another vote regarding the EU and "brexit" will romp home this time.
    Either way, what a mess this has become.

    How long before MPs defect to the Brexit Party?
    CHUK or what ever they are* have set the precedent on that front.


    *an utter irrelevance is what they are

    Well at least you don't have to choose, amongst others, between the Animal Lovers Party and The Decent, Law Abiding Muslims Party.
    In France there are 34 parties in the ballot, including 3 or 4 different nationalist groups, at least three ecologist groups, various shades of socialism and never socialism etc. Most of them don't even have any posters to put up and it's rumoured that some can't even afford to print their ballot papers.

  37. #12187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    I voted the other week.

    who do we think will win this (pointless) election?
    Clearly Brexit party.

  38. #12188

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.
    Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?
    A second referendum has been the most obvious way forward for ages now, the whole thing could have already been done and dusted. Parliament is clearly not fit for purpose with all the red v blue nonsense.

    A simple vote with two questions would have sorted it out. 1. Leave or remain? 2. In the event of leave - Withdrawal agreement or WTO?

  39. #12189

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.
    Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?
    Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

    You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.

  40. #12190

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    A second referendum has been the most obvious way forward for ages now, the whole thing could have already been done and dusted. Parliament is clearly not fit for purpose with all the red v blue nonsense.

    A simple vote with two questions would have sorted it out. 1. Leave or remain? 2. In the event of leave - Withdrawal agreement or WTO?
    But the final decision has to be with the House of Commons since Gina Miller's victory in the High Court. Don't see how another referendum would change that. You've already had one with the result of 52-48 for leave. Evidently the MPs have shown themselves capable of not respecting the will of the people once, no reason to assume that they wouldn't do it again.
    So the ballot would have to contain some sort of clause about leaving with or without a deal. Cos the "deal" will never suit all the MPs necessary. Me personally I'd let the Scots wander off and do whatever it is they think they want to do and have done with their 40 or 50 whatever it is votes against anything they don't agree with. Scottish Nationalists should not have the right to decide the future of the rest of the UK.
    Last edited by Window Cleaner; 23-05-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  41. #12191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Window Cleaner View Post
    But the final decision has to be with the House of Commons since Gina Miller's victory in the High Court. Don't see how another referendum would change that. You've already had one with the result of 52-48 for leave. Evidently the MPs have shown themselves capable of not respecting the will of the people once, no reason to assume that they wouldn't do it again.
    So the ballot would have to contain some sort of clause about leaving with or without a deal. Cos the "deal" will never suit all the MPs necessary. Me personally I'd let the Scots wander off and do whatever it is they think they want to do and have done with their 40 or 50 whatever it is votes against anything they don't agree with. Scottist Nationalists should not have the right to decide the future of the rest of the UK.
    Surely the House of Commons final decision could be a legally binding confirmatory vote?

  42. #12192

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Surely the House of Commons final decision could be a legally binding confirmatory vote?
    But only if the terms of the referendum included leaving without a deal without fail. Otherwise there will always be opponents.
    Perhaps voting in another referendum should be manadatory as well. 50 fine for not voting or something. Then the result would be more definitive.
    Last edited by Window Cleaner; 23-05-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  43. #12193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

    You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.
    Oh dear Wes, I have consistently said that whilst I think Brexit would be bad for the country, that the result of the referendum, once it had been legitimised, should have stood, and that having voted to leave we should simply leave. That is democracy. The whole balls-up subsequently should never have happened, especially the pointless 2017 General Election. My position on a potential second public vote is perhaps hope over expectation, but if a 'second chance' to produce my preferred outcome were offered, I would welcome it.

    I again ask the question, why are you so afraid of a second vote ?

  44. #12194

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    Today's poll will almost certainly see the BREXIT (party) Limited gain the most votes and MEPS. However if the combined popular vote for Remain parties equals or exceeds the combined popular vote of the right wing nasty parties I will be happy. Votes for the Tories and Labour can be discounted as both will have remainers and leavers voting for them, because many the rump who do vote for them today will never vote for anyone else no matter what was at stake party before country. Farages BREXIT (party) Limited is down to his base support, what is so disappointing is that means about a third of the people in our country are racist, nationalistic and bigoted.

  45. #12195

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    A second vote should always be seen as the last resort. We are now very close to this being the case.

    The problem with the deal (and probably any deal) is that it is a compromise and therefore pleases no-one. At least with a binary WTO v Remain vote, everyone would know the position. If a 2nd ref is called however, the Remain side need to do a better job of extolling the virtues of the EU rather than simply scare the s*** out of people about WTO No deal etc.

    I expect that the Brexit party will win the biggest share of the votes today, but 'Remain' parties - Greens, Lib-Dems, Change, SNP and Plaid will be equal them with their combined percentage - the great unknown is how Labour will fare. In strong remain areas they may do quite well; in the Leave constituencies (particularly in the North) they are probably going to struggle. Conservatives will finish 5th or 6th overall.

  46. #12196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

    You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.
    It wasn't that sort of a referendum, nothing mandatory about it, and there is no requirement for any vote to be implemented either nor anything to preclude holding another subsequent vote. That's a fundamental point of British Parliamentary democracy. No Parliament can bind a successor.

  47. #12197

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Oh dear Wes, I have consistently said that whilst I think Brexit would be bad for the country, that the result of the referendum, once it had been legitimised, should have stood, and that having voted to leave we should simply leave. That is democracy. The whole balls-up subsequently should never have happened, especially the pointless 2017 General Election. My position on a potential second public vote is perhaps hope over expectation, but if a 'second chance' to produce my preferred outcome were offered, I would welcome it.

    I again ask the question, why are you so afraid of a second vote ?
    You maintain that you thought that the Referendum vote should be respected and then in the next breath you want it rerun. You seem to be a bit confused. As I said, you are not a democrat. The whole balls up has happened because people like you, Shurlock, Jeff and Timmy and other remoaners on here have their equivalents in Parliament who cannot bring themselves to respect the wish of their constituents and deliver Brexit, so they have fought to delay it at every stage in the hope that pressure would grow to drop it, or think again.

    80% of the electorate who voted in the 2017 GE, voted for parties who pledged to honour the referendum decision.

    Regarding your fantasy of a second/third vote, what would the question be? Remain cannot be on the ballot, as that had already been defeated, so I suggest leave on Mays "deal", or leave on WTO terms. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? No doubt you not being a democrat, would like to have remain, May's deal or WTO, so that the leave vote is conveniently split by an establishment stitch-up.

    But there will be no rerun of the Referendum, as it has already been decided, promises having been made beforehand that the result would be respected, a simple majority being all that is required.

  48. #12198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    It wasn't that sort of a referendum, nothing mandatory about it, and there is no requirement for any vote to be implemented either nor anything to preclude holding another subsequent vote. That's a fundamental point of British Parliamentary democracy. No Parliament can bind a successor.
    Ah, sorry, Whitey. You are obviously upset that I omitted you from the list of anti-democrats, so you felt the need to establish your credentials. You don't seem to know the difference between the obligations placed on Parliament by a referendum, as distinct from legislation during a Parliamentary term. If during a General Election a party put it in its manifesto that they would hold another referendum on the issue, making clear what the ballot questions would be, then fair enough. If the current Parliament, mostly elected on a manifesto pledge to honour the referendum decision decided to hold a rerun before that decision had even been implemented, then that is clearly anti-democratic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonraker View Post
    Farages BREXIT (party) Limited is down to his base support, what is so disappointing is that means about a third of the people in our country are racist, nationalistic and bigoted.
    You forgot thick. You're slipping.

    And then you wonder why the Brexit voters are deserting the mainstream parties and joining the Brexit Party in their droves. Closer to 40% currently, and it's all thanks to the likes of you. Well done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    You maintain that you thought that the Referendum vote should be respected and then in the next breath you want it rerun. You seem to be a bit confused. As I said, you are not a democrat. The whole balls up has happened because people like you, Shurlock, Jeff and Timmy and other remoaners on here have their equivalents in Parliament who cannot bring themselves to respect the wish of their constituents and deliver Brexit, so they have fought to delay it at every stage in the hope that pressure would grow to drop it, or think again.

    80% of the electorate who voted in the 2017 GE, voted for parties who pledged to honour the referendum decision.

    Regarding your fantasy of a second/third vote, what would the question be? Remain cannot be on the ballot, as that had already been defeated, so I suggest leave on Mays "deal", or leave on WTO terms. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? No doubt you not being a democrat, would like to have remain, May's deal or WTO, so that the leave vote is conveniently split by an establishment stitch-up.

    But there will be no rerun of the Referendum, as it has already been decided, promises having been made beforehand that the result would be respected, a simple majority being all that is required.
    Les, Labour rejected a no-deal/WTO Brexit in its manifesto, so perhaps you should stop quoting the 80% figure and reading into the referendum and GE results the type of extreme Brexit that only swivels like you support.

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