Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Its just over 900,000 employed directly in the factories and supply chain - but doesn't include all the truck drivers, restaurants, shops, taxis, retailers etc who depend on the money that the 1m relatively highly paid workers spend.

We are going through the 2nd major industrial revolution and it isn't pretty.

Roll on 10 years and the high street will be like the ice makinh companies of the 30's before the fridge became a household appliance. Unless we get a major change in consumer buying it is finished (High St)

Take heed all you internet shoppers who are trying to save tenners here and there, once the High Street is gone the prices on the internet will soar and you will be worse off. Yes if you spend real time searching you would still get a better price but in the main after the first 3 pages, most will give up and buy from there.

 

"As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused."

I find it decidedly odd that you have not addressed the JLR statement from today.

Is there a silver lining here, or is it all a bluff?

Separately - Have you ever posted in the football section of this football forum? - Honest question, don't remember seeing you there.

"bad Brexit": ask different people to define it, they'd all come up with a different answer...

Jaguar Land Rover: "A hard Brexit means we'll have to close UK factories and thousands of people's livelihoods will be destroyed."

Brexit cultist: "Okay fine, but let's discuss semantics."

Thankfully enough of a spotlight was shone on in by the likes of the greens and ukip that they narrowly avoided the prospect of it being pushed through and negotiated in secret. Thank goodness that there was enough noise made that certain people got nervous.

did you read the article in the Telegraph the other day where it showed whether we stay in the EU or not, the car industry is going to shed half the workforce and its supply chain due to electric cars? A lot less parts and far less to people needed to manufacture.

We are going through the 2nd major industrial revolution and it isn't pretty.

Roll on 10 years and the high street will be like the ice makinh companies of the 30's before the fridge became a household appliance. Unless we get a major change in consumer buying it is finished (High St)

Take heed all you internet shoppers who are trying to save tenners here and there, once the High Street is gone the prices on the internet will soar and you will be worse off. Yes if you spend real time searching you would still get a better price but in the main after the first 3 pages, most will give up and buy from there.

Which article was that - the swivel-eyed opinion piece by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard who can't even get the UK's growth figures correct? Its very easy to play the 'structural decline' card, not that automation isn't a factor, when you are unwilling to take responsibility for your actions. So what if Brexit wipes out the car industry goes the Brexiteer line it was headed for the dustbin of history anyway. You need to wise up a bit pal.

I find it decidedly odd that you have not addressed the JLR statement from today.

Is there a silver lining here, or is it all a bluff?

 

Separately - Have you ever posted in the football section of this football forum? - Honest question, don't remember seeing you there.

Lol.

Don't hold your breath for a response from him. The bloke is clueless and hopeless when it comes to debate.

But he keeps on popping up here so that we can laugh at him.

I find it decidedly odd that you have not addressed the JLR statement from today.

Is there a silver lining here, or is it all a bluff?

 

Separately - Have you ever posted in the football section of this football forum? - Honest question, don't remember seeing you there.

Why does Jihadi John have to address the comments of JLR's CEO who only lives and breathes the business when Owen Paterson, MP, says that Brexit will be good for JLR?

Which article was that - the swivel-eyed opinion piece by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard who can't even get the UK's growth figures correct? Its very easy to play the 'structural decline' card, not that automation isn't a factor, when you are unwilling to take responsibility for your actions. So what if Brexit wipes out the car industry goes the Brexiteer line it was headed for the dustbin of history anyway. You need to wise up a bit pal.

As for you comment f### business just shows you need to wise up. No business no jobs, no exports, no NHS no future. The nation makes its income from business not just the government borrowing money.

You need to chill out a bit. There are 2 ways at looking at things. I am a remainer but accept that it is not all going to be bad.

As for you comment f### business just shows you need to wise up. No business no jobs, no exports, no NHS no future. The nation makes its income from business not just the government borrowing money.

I think you mean Boris Johnson needs to wise up

As for you comment f### business just shows you need to wise up.......

"bad Brexit": ask different people to define it, they'd all come up with a different answer...

Separately - Have you ever posted in the football section of this football forum? - Honest question, don't remember seeing you there.

I've been posting on football forums for a while. Use the search function if you're interested in the b0ll0x I've posted in the past. I started out posting on the old BBC 606 forum. This was a piece I did for the BBC web site and shows what a good looking b@st@rd I was back in the day. I was an internet sensation...

I've been posting on football forums for a while. Use the search function if you're interested in the b0ll0x I've posted in the past. I started out posting on the old BBC 606 forum. This was a piece I did for the BBC web site and shows what a good looking b@st@rd I was back in the day. I was an internet sensation...

Dead vacant eyes.

Dead vacant eyes.

Thanks for clarifying. Interesting work by Enrico Moretti has found that each additional skilled job in the manufacturing or tradable sector generates 2.5 additional jobs in precisely the jobs you describe. The multiplier is even higher for the more high tech jobs at JLR. So the 1m figure is likely to be a significant underestimate.

 

F**k business.

That sounds horrendous!

So, 1 million car workers lose their jobs - nailed on certainty for sure - and then another 2.5 million, or maybe 3 million (when you take in to account the high tech jobs) more lose their jobs from associated trades. Already we're at 4 million unemployed just from the car industry! Imagine the numbers involved before 'automation' decimated the car industry

Then there's the farming industry that will likely be affected by the ban on immigration - that's got to be at least another million, extrapolated out to 3.5 million (no high tech jobs in farming to push the 'extras' over 2.5 per person ).

From those two industries alone that makes 7.5 million unemployed - or about 11.5% of the total population!

Not sure those numbers really add up, but hey, they make a good scare story!

F**k Enrico Moretti.

That sounds horrendous!

 

So, 1 million car workers lose their jobs - nailed on certainty for sure - and then another 2.5 million, or maybe 3 million (when you take in to account the high tech jobs) more lose their jobs from associated trades. Already we're at 4 million unemployed just from the car industry! Imagine the numbers involved before 'automation' decimated the car industry

 

Then there's the farming industry that will likely be affected by the ban on immigration - that's got to be at least another million, extrapolated out to 3.5 million (no high tech jobs in farming to push the 'extras' over 2.5 per person ).

 

From those two industries alone that makes 7.5 million unemployed - or about 11.5% of the total population!

 

Not sure those numbers really add up, but hey, they make a good scare story!

 

F**k Enrico Moretti.

Where did I claim those types of numbers? I just pointed out that skilled manufacturing jobs tend to have multiplier effects and support jobs in other industries and provided a reference to that end. This is work by a serious academic economist, based on real data not the hatchet job by a bumpkin who likely has trouble counting on both hands.

Serious work has only looked at effects on job creation (as I pointed out if you had bothered to read): it doesn't necessarily follow that the same numbers are at risk of losing their jobs. After all the economy will adjust in other ways to a negative shock among other things, the cost of labour will fall as unemployment rises, making it easier to reemploy displaced people in other industries which will offset those initial job losses. But kudos for showing a more limited understanding of the economy than my dog.

So my point was quite modest: whether you accept the 900,000 figure or any other figure (I'm sceptical of precise forecasts as I've endlessly pointed out on here), direct estimates are likely to underestimate the effects because they don't take account of the wider interactions that Moretti and others have expertly documented. But you keep doing what you do and spinning your scare stories to an audience of one pal

That sounds horrendous!

 

So, 1 million car workers lose their jobs - nailed on certainty for sure - and then another 2.5 million, or maybe 3 million (when you take in to account the high tech jobs) more lose their jobs from associated trades. Already we're at 4 million unemployed just from the car industry! Imagine the numbers involved before 'automation' decimated the car industry

 

Then there's the farming industry that will likely be affected by the ban on immigration - that's got to be at least another million, extrapolated out to 3.5 million (no high tech jobs in farming to push the 'extras' over 2.5 per person ).

 

From those two industries alone that makes 7.5 million unemployed - or about 11.5% of the total population!

 

Not sure those numbers really add up, but hey, they make a good scare story!

 

F**k Enrico Moretti.

It’s almost as if 400,000-800,000 will lose their jobs immediately should we dare vote to leave along with a massive property crash...........oh

Where did I claim those types of numbers? I just pointed out that skilled manufacturing jobs tend to have multiplier effects and support jobs in other industries and provided a reference to that end. This is work by a serious academic economist, based on real data not the hatchet job by a bumpkin who likely has trouble counting on both hands.

 

Serious work has only looked at effects on job creation (as I pointed out if you had bothered to read): it doesn't necessarily follow that the same numbers are at risk of losing their jobs. After all the economy will adjust in other ways to a negative shock among other things, the cost of labour will fall as unemployment rises, making it easier to reemploy displaced people in other industries which will offset those initial job losses. But kudos for showing a more limited understanding of the economy than my dog.

 

So my point was quite modest: whether you accept the 900,000 figure or any other figure (I'm sceptical of precise forecasts as I've endlessly pointed out on here), direct estimates are likely to underestimate the effects because they don't take account of the wider interactions that Moretti and others have expertly documented. But you keep doing what you do and spinning your scare stories to an audience of one pal

At least three

I must have missed the reference that you mention - unless of course you are referencing the entire life works of Enrico Moretti, which sadly, I have neither the time nor inclination to read. Still, I'm sure there is something he has written that backs up your point, if only you'd posted it!

F**k Enrico Moretti

At least three

 

I must have missed the reference that you mention - unless of course you are referencing the entire life works of Enrico Moretti, which sadly, I have neither the time nor inclination to read. Still, I'm sure there is something he has written that backs up your point, if only you'd posted it!

 

F**k Enrico Moretti

This is a must read paper of his:

Why do Most Italian Youths Live with Their Parents? Intergenerational Transfers and Household Structure (with M. Manacorda), Journal of the European Economic Association, 4(4), 2006.

Clever guy. Clever enough to get the hell out of Italy and spout b0ll0x in San Francisco with all the other liberal academic grant chasers. What the f*** he brings to the debate about an Indian car maker threatening the British government if things don't go their way, is a mystery to me. Trump is calling the tune now, in terms of the global economy and we'd better get ready to listen to him.

This is a must read paper of his:

 

 

Clever guy. Clever enough to get the hell out of Italy and spout b0ll0x in San Francisco with all the other liberal academic grant chasers. What the f*** he brings to the debate about an Indian car maker threatening the British government if things don't go their way, is a mystery to me. Trump is calling the tune now, in terms of the global economy and we'd better get ready to listen to him.

You’d be surprised pal. Even little me had Ivanka Trump and the White House tweeting my work the other week

F**k Enrico Moretti

Damn you Shylock. You've nicked my moronic stalker.

On the 'f**k theme now so beloved by jihadists, it's good to see, with the Jaguar Land Rover announcement, that Boris's policy is coming to fruition.

Damn you Shylock. You've nicked my moronic stalker.

 

On the 'f**k theme now so beloved by jihadists, it's good to see, with the Jaguar Land Rover announcement, that Boris's policy is coming to fruition.

Don’t worry, little westie is still dutifully following you, even fantasising that you and I car share a Vauxhall Insignia. Odd.

Don’t blame Remainers. don’t blame Brussels. don’t even blame (for once) Theresa May.

Blame the liars who sold you the lie.

Brexit. Does. Not. Work.

Don’t blame Remainers. don’t blame Brussels. don’t even blame (for once) Theresa May.

 

Blame the liars who sold you the lie.

 

Brexit. Does. Not. Work.

Yesterday’s plan is a steaming mess of contradictions and unanswered questions as May attempts to dance on a pinhead and not cross her redlines. However much it is a two fingers to the vanities and platitudes of the jihadists, it’ll never be accepted -and in an ironic twist, the EU is now their best hope of getting an ultra hard Brexit. The more hopeful part of me says that this is only the startpoint for a further dilution of Brexit which is more realistic but time will tell.

It is an ironic repeat of a comment BoJo allegedly made, and refuses to deny.

Yesterday’s plan is a steaming mess of contradictions and unanswered questions as May attempts to dance on a pinhead and not cross her redlines. However much it is a two fingers to the vanities and platitudes of the jihadists, it’ll never be accepted -and in an ironic twist, the EU is now their best hope of getting an ultra hard Brexit. The more hopeful part of me says that this is only the startpoint for a further dilution of Brexit which is more realistic but time will tell.

One minister was quoted as saying the Brexiteers were outnumbered 20-7 - pretty conclusive. It was always obvious that economic realities of a hard Brexit would force pragmatism in the end. But the amateurish and embarrassing public posturing and big talk followed by this and subsequent climbdowns has done real and lasting damage to Britain's reputation. A good leader who really believed in Brexit would have announced immediately after the referendum we were going to stay in the customs union on the Norway model for up to 10 years whilst all the practical obstacles to full departure were ironed out.

As you say May's model wont be accepted and further ground giving is coming up.

Don’t blame Remainers. don’t blame Brussels. don’t even blame (for once) Theresa May.

 

Blame the liars who sold you the lie.

 

Brexit. Does. Not. Work.

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

 

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

 

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

 

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

 

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

 

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

 

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

 

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

 

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

Like I Said

Don’t blame Remainers. don’t blame Brussels. don’t even blame (for once) Theresa May.

Blame the liars who sold you the lie.

Brexit. Does. Not. Work.

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

 

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

 

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

 

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

 

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

 

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

 

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

 

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

 

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

:lol:

Wow I've heard of some hard Brexits but you think complete chaos wouldve have worked out well?

 

1. What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect

2. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

3. If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

Your post sums up Brexiteers. You think the impossible is possible. Its fairyland stuff.

1. By whose authority? You think the PM has the authority to decide unilaterally? You think you can just repeal legislation and not replace it with anything? You think you can do that in 24 hours?

2. suppose 1 happened and the UK repudiated all EU related law since 1975. What then? There would be no agreements for immigration, customs, flightpaths, etc etc. It would be the end of trade and movement of people overnight.

3. Why the **** would individual EU countries give up their access to the 27 countries just so they could deal with Britain?

Like I Said

 

Don’t blame Remainers. don’t blame Brussels. don’t even blame (for once) Theresa May.

 

Blame the liars who sold you the lie.

 

Brexit. Does. Not. Work.

Don’t be so ridiculous, there’s literally hundreds of countries that aren’t in a political union , and they get along perfectly well. You can argue that it’s better to be in a union, but to say it doesn’t work unless you’re in one is clearly pony.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Don’t be so ridiculous, there’s literally hundreds of countries that aren’t in a political union , and they get along perfectly well.

k

There are only 200 countries, and 28 of them are in the EU. The large majority of developed nations are in a trading bloc of some kind. The major point of difference between in and out of the EU is whether the economic benefits outweigh the alignment requirements.

The large majority of developed nations are in a trading bloc of some kind.

Not like the EU they’re not. Which other trading bloc has free movement, ever closer union, a currency, flag, and parliament.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your post sums up Brexiteers. You think the impossible is possible. Its fairyland stuff.

 

1. By whose authority? You think the PM has the authority to decide unilaterally? You think you can just repeal legislation and not replace it with anything? You think you can do that in 24 hours?

2. suppose 1 happened and the UK repudiated all EU related law since 1975. What then? There would be no agreements for immigration, customs, flightpaths, etc etc. It would be the end of trade and movement of people overnight.

3. Why the **** would individual EU countries give up their access to the 27 countries just so they could deal with Britain?

1.The authority of the people when they voted, they work for us, who says we have to repeal anything, we can easily say we're out but we ain't changing anything yet.

2. Not it wouldn't who says we have to repudiate every law since 1975, we just say from now on we decide. Then tell them they're welcome to talk about future trade on a level playing field.

3.You telling me these countries are happy with how they've been treated, the EU isn't the be all and end all. Bmw's biggest market is the UK, you think they'd be happy with the EU closing that market to them

At the end of the day we had a decent hand but our politicians totally bottled it. The EU need us and we need them, if we played our hand better it wouldn't have come to this and you know it.

The EU is willing to risk lives, ireland, security etc, you really want to get in bed with people like that?

1.The authority of the people when they voted, they work for us, who says we have to repeal anything, we can easily say we're out but we ain't changing anything yet.

2. Not it wouldn't who says we have to repudiate every law since 1975, we just say from now on we decide. Then tell them they're welcome to talk about future trade on a level playing field.

3.You telling me these countries are happy with how they've been treated, the EU isn't the be all and end all. Bmw's biggest market is the UK, you think they'd be happy with the EU closing that market to them

 

At the end of the day we had a decent hand but our politicians totally bottled it. The EU need us and we need them, if we played our hand better it wouldn't have come to this and you know it.

 

The EU is willing to risk lives, ireland, security etc, you really want to get in bed with people like that?

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

 

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

 

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

 

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

 

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

 

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

 

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

 

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

 

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

Jesus wept. I've read some ill informed, frankly thick as pig sh_it bol_loxs in my time but this is a whole new level of dumb.

Jesus wept. I've read some ill informed, frankly thick as pig sh_it bol_loxs in my time but this is a whole new level of dumb.

Sorry but the only person who is a new level of dumb, is the person who thinks bailing from the eu will cause some sort of weird mad max style apocalypse. The greatest motivator of people is adversity, if people are facing disaster they will pull together and find something that works. Instead what we have is a bunch of self serving politicians trying to placate everyone and will end up making things 10 times worse mark my words.

If the politicians on both sides of the argument could be trusted to work together to work things out instead of screwing each other over then it would have been ok. Unfortunately they aint like that and they like to play games with peoples lives. Look what the eu done to greece for ****s sake. A whole generation ruined by the will of germany.

Unfortunately weak minded people like you have been brain washed into thinking that the eu is some sort of utopia. Don't get me wrong I'd have no problem with the common market, in fact it's a brilliant concept, the problem is over time they've wanted more and more power over the member nations and instead of it being a group of nations trading together it's become a political entity, now it feels like we're being controlled by some sort of weird politburo of europe. Look at the migrant crisis, every country was warning germany about it but merkel ignored them, letting in over 2 million without any proper checks. Now her premiership is being threatened suddenly they want to solve the problem and the eu is acting, to me that looks like the eu didn't give a damn about what anyone else was saying, but as soon as germany barks they jump.

Listen I'm sure you're a good guy and quite clearly our opinions differ but surely you can see that if everyone had accepted the result and worked together to make Brexit a success we would have been further down the road than where we are now, sometimes people need to put in a position where they're forced to act. It may not have been what everyone wanted but I'm sure no one wanted what's happening to our great country now.

Jesus wept. I've read some ill informed, frankly thick as pig sh_it bol_loxs in my time but this is a whole new level of dumb.

Tbh, your own post is up there with the most patronising ****** I've seen on here, and it's had some stiff competition. He's been a bit cackhanded in making his point, but it's a valid one; if the referendum result had been respected and accepted by all parties we would be nearer to an agreement now than we are. There's nothing dumb about that.

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

 

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

 

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

 

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

 

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

 

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

 

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

 

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

 

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

That certainly would have been the Trump approach and would have plunged Europe into a proper crisis. Amongst all the screaming I expect that many in Europe would have pointed the finger not just at Britain but also at members of the Commission and the whole issue of genuine reform of Europe could have been realistically put on the table. It is likely that we could have been part of that process and could have ended up staying in a reformed Europe which most of us would have approved of.

I think you may well have been right and we would have seen how pragmatic Europe could have been if we had opted to press the nuclear button. We may be one market out of 28 but economically it is the equivalent of up to 19 members leaving and that could have been quite an earth quake which would not have been solved by sending Juncker and Selmayr to dinner at Downing Street.

Instead we have this softly softly approach put together by an alliance of career politicians, remainer civil servants and big business which has thrown up a fudge that will take an age for us to understand and when we do we will discover we have been shafted once again. That is of course if the now emboldened EU doesn't tell us to go back to the drawing board.

That certainly would have been the Trump approach and would have plunged Europe into a proper crisis. Amongst all the screaming I expect that many in Europe would have pointed the finger not just at Britain but also at members of the Commission and the whole issue of genuine reform of Europe could have been realistically put on the table. It is likely that we could have been part of that process and could have ended up staying in a reformed Europe which most of us would have approved of.

 

I think you may well have been right and we would have seen how pragmatic Europe could have been if we had opted to press the nuclear button. We may be one market out of 28 but economically it is the equivalent of up to 19 members leaving and that could have been quite an earth quake which would not have been solved by sending Juncker and Selmayr to dinner at Downing Street.

 

Instead we have this softly softly approach put together by an alliance of career politicians, remainer civil servants and big business which has thrown up a fudge that will take an age for us to understand and when we do we will discover we have been shafted once again. That is of course if the now emboldened EU doesn't tell us to go back to the drawing board.

Brilliant another poundshop Machiavelli who doesn’t have a clue about the real world. The idea that the UK would have gained some leverage by pressing the nuclear button, implied by Millbrook, is as laughable as it is terrifying. Quite the opposite, it would have caused the UK to go back to the EU, on its hands and knees, begging for help. It’s just a rehash of the same gullible belief that, somehow, the UK holds all the cards. How’s that turned out

Who knows what Trump would have done: he hasn’t pulled the US out of NAFTA yet, notwithstanding the fact that the US is the dominant economic party and NAFTA is a far more shallow trading bloc than the EU. And frankly who cares: I know jihadists look up to him. But that says less about Trump’s effectiveness than their own failings - your inability to take responsibility and accept that the situation is a shambles -not because you’ve been stabbed in the back by shadowy forces but because you’ve never had a workable or realistic plan. It’s time for you to stop playing the victim and face reality pal.

Edit

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect

Yes, that would have given them all a good laugh. This is the point I stopped reading and scrolled to the next reply.

Don’t be so ridiculous, there’s literally hundreds of countries that aren’t in a political union , and they get along perfectly well. You can argue that it’s better to be in a union, but to say it doesn’t work unless you’re in one is clearly pony.

 

 

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I am saying BREXIT does not work which clearly it does not.

I am not saying anything about Political Unions but getting out of the EU is impossible without ****ing up the country

I know jihadists look up to him. But that says less about Trump’s effectiveness than their own failings - your inability to take responsibility and accept that the situation is a shambles -not because you’ve been stabbed in the back by shadowy forces but because you’ve never had a workable or realistic plan.

This to the 'n'th degree

Actually Brexit would have worked if it wasn't for spineless politicians and democracy hating remainers.

 

What should have happened is the day after Brexit we told Brussels we're out with immediate affect, this would have caused a **** storm and one where our politicians would have to work together to get things done. No negotiating before leaving, just gone.

 

Stop paying them any money we pay in, use that as internal subsidies until things get sorted. What do you think they'll do? send planes over with bombs, of course not, they will be forced to talk with us on a level playing field which is all we've wanted from the start.

 

I know you say this would have been a disaster but you know what would have happened? politicians would have been forced to sort it out and do what they're paid for, carrying out the will of the people. Instead we have politicians trying to please all sides, well I'm sorry this was a black or white vote, in or out, what concessions would the remainers have given us if they had won. None you would have all looked down your noses at us, telling us how democracy has spoken and we should just accept it and how us little thicko racists should just disappear back into the gutters we came from.

 

Do you really think that businesses in Europe and the UK would have accepted losing business overnight? NO, they would have pressured all parties to get things sorted as soon as possible, the politicians would be forced to act, putting the respective countries first, instead of this incessant death by a thousand cuts the remainers are trying to inflict on our country, just to prove how bad Brexit is.

 

I guarantee that by now we would have sorted a hobbled together trade deal that works for all parties, instead of this back and forthing with Europe threatening us and May bending over to touch her toes once again.

 

If Europe had refused to deal with us, we just bypass them and talk to the countries ****ed with the United States of Germany such as Greece, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy etc and invite them to make trade deals with us, offering them tariff free trade.

 

There are plenty of other countries in the world.

 

Remember the Irish pm was happy talking through with us until they got their claws into him.

 

I know people like you will always have a response to anything people like me say, well that's fine, but you're wrong , with focus, determination and will from all our politicians we could have made Brexit work for all of us. But I guess that's all over now, democracy is only accepted if it's what the elite want.

There's nothing remarkable about this post. It's a boilerplate Brexit fantasy which echoes (however poorly) all the Jihadist fundamental principles. Rejection of expertise, rejection of all economic and political realities, condemnation of anyone coming up with a plan - any plan - as traitors, and a desperate desire to 'return' to a Utopian, Year Zero, state of (a falsified) 1950s Britain.

It's nothing more than knee-jerk vandalism - the Brexit equivalent of the nihilists in The Big Lebowski, who rock up at the dude's house just to pee on the carpet and toss a marmot into the bathtub.

What is remarkable is that this level of ignorance can still find its way into the ether two whole years after the referendum vote. I know the rejection of expertise is a central jihadist article of faith, but to extend it to the rejection of all knowledge takes a really determined refusal to shut down the mind.

Are there now Brexit madrasas where they teach acolytes only to recite the spoken word of brother Nigel? And in a language they don't understand?

Brilliant another poundshop Machiavelli who doesn’t have a clue about the real world. The idea that the UK would have gained some leverage by pressing the nuclear button, implied by Millbrook, is as laughable as it is terrifying. Quite the opposite, it would have caused the UK to go back to the EU, on its hands and knees, begging for help. It’s just a rehash of the same gullible belief that, somehow, the UK holds all the cards. How’s that turned out

 

Who knows what Trump would have done: he hasn’t pulled the US out of NAFTA yet, notwithstanding the fact that the US is the dominant economic party and NAFTA is a far more shallow trading bloc than the EU. And frankly who cares: I know jihadists look up to him. But that says less about Trump’s effectiveness than their own failings - your inability to take responsibility and accept that the situation is a shambles -not because you’ve been stabbed in the back by shadowy forces but because you’ve never had a workable or realistic plan. It’s time for you to stop playing the victim and face reality pal.

If you knew how the real world works then you would have predicted the referendum result and accurately assessed the impact on the economy of a leave vote. Now we know that the roof has not fallen in I think the line is that the 'economy would have been growing faster'. The trouble is that your exposure to people who voted out is limited to this forum. You are out of touch with the real world.

Where of course you are very naive is that EU unity would hold in the event of a Milbrook's 'Trump' style tough negotiating. Do you think when 100,000 French farmers were blocking Paris with their tractors because they had lost a £4bn market, potentially forever, you could just tell them its OK because we are going to screw their financial services. That is hardly going to help them. What about Spanish tourist chiefs - its OK the Brits are all holidaying at home for the next couple of years but you know what, their houses in London are worth 30% less. What about the Danish fisherman - sorry lads you will have to stay in Port now but just to make you feel better, Nissan have made 3000 Mackems redundant and they are hurting too. They would be banging on the Commission's door demanding they sort it out. So yes while it might be a high risk strategy there could be some mileage in it in my opinion.

If you knew how the real world works then you would have predicted the referendum result and accurately assessed the impact on the economy of a leave vote. Now we know that the roof has not fallen in I think the line is that the 'economy would have been growing faster'. The trouble is that your exposure to people who voted out is limited to this forum. You are out of touch with the real world.

Sums it up for me. These remain chumps couldn't, couldn't, have been further wide of the mark in terms of the effect of a leave vote on the economy, so how can they be trusted to be correct about the effect of Brexit on the economy, when it actually happens. What is incredible to me is the level of arrogance in their supposed knowledge, with no evidence to the support it. Best left on ignore, the lot of them. Pity I can't do that for the biased media in general.

We need Trump...

Sums it up for me. These remain chumps couldn't, couldn't, have been further wide of the mark in terms of the effect of a leave vote on the economy,

You're right. No-one predicted we'd go from being just about the fastest growing economy in the G7, OECD and EU to the weakest in just two years.

.We need Trump...

And with that, Jihadi John jumps the shark with a double pirouette and twist.

....so how can they be trusted to be correct about the effect of Brexit on the economy, when it actually happens.

Until we know the EU's closing position in response to the UK's final, ( final ), proposals for a settlement, NOBODY can predict what effect there might be on the economy. The Leaver Republican Guard banner wavers may be proved correct and all remainer arguments shown to be no more than Private Fraser's Cassandran doom-mongering. Then again, it could all just dissolve into a huge sh!tstorm of financial meltdown such as hasn't been seen since the Weimar Republic. Quite likely it may just be relatively plain sailing into a sensibly implemented new pan-European operating partnership.