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Thread: Post EU - The Way Forward

  1. #9251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbal View Post
    Calm down Mr Army. You might accidentally issue a fatwa.

    So where do you stand on abusing black and brown people? Good thing?
    That depends on your definition of abuse and if they are being shouted at because of their ethnicity or race or if it's for other reasons. Anna Soubry can hardly claim she is being subjected to "sexist" abuse when commies like little Owen are getting the same treatment. I don't think anyone should be "abused" but calling someone a nazi- however ill advised and wrong- is not against the law and is not tantamount to abuse, particularly because remainders have been calling directly or insinuating the exact same thing for years now.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 08-01-2019 at 02:35 PM.

  2. #9252

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Sounds like old Soubry wants to make calling someone a fascist or a nazi illegal. A few far left types on twitter and the likes of soggy on here should be feeling pretty nervous about that prospect...
    Well you can't do that, that's ridiculous. She needs to man the **** up.

  3. #9253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbal View Post
    Calm down Mr Army. You might accidentally issue a fatwa.

    So where do you stand on abusing black and brown people? Good thing?
    What has that got to do with you calling people that have a different political opinion to you, jihadists?

    Wouldn't be like you to use a straw man.

  4. #9254

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Well you can't do that, that's ridiculous. She needs to man the **** up.
    Bit different when you’ve got a man twice your size, foaming at the mouth, shouting it in your face.

  5. #9255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Well you can't do that, that's ridiculous. She needs to man the **** up.
    At least we agree on something.

  6. #9256

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Bit different when you’ve got a man twice your size, foaming at the mouth, shouting it in your face.
    I watched the video and it's dishonest to suggest she suffered anything but the very mildest forms of shouting near to her. All the stuff you've mentioned like the blokes height or that he was "foaming at the mouth" is never something you'd be bringing up with little Owen Jones was having a rally and screaming bile at the "fash." Where were all the calls for police when Farage was getting assaulted?

    https://youtu.be/WAqrfEMbC5g

    O'Neil is right as usual that there is stunning hypocrisy on the issue.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/0...mpression=true
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 08-01-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  7. #9257

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Bit different when you’ve got a man twice your size, foaming at the mouth, shouting it in your face.
    Oh definitely, but doesn't make the words any different. The issue is not with the words, rather the way they're delivered.

  8. #9258

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I watched the video and it's dishonest to suggest she suffered anything but the very mildest forms of shouting near to her. All the stuff you've mentioned like the blokes height or that he was "foaming at the mouth" is never something you'd be bringing up with little Owen Jones was having a rally and screaming bile at the "fash." Where were all the calls for police when Farage was getting assaulted?

    https://youtu.be/WAqrfEMbC5g

    O'Neil is right as usual that there is stunning hypocrisy on the issue.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/0...mpression=true
    Soubry is a woman. Farage can more than handle themselves. So can prominent remainers like Alastair Campbell who’ve also received plenty of abuse.
    Last edited by shurlock; 08-01-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #9259

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Owen Jones maybe delicate and dainty but he’s a man. Farage is too. They can more than handle themselves.
    Plenty of female leave voters have been screamed at in the street and subject to all sorts of nasty slurs yet not a peep. I don't think shouting at any individual regardless of their gender should be illegal and it seems the police are really struggling to find a crime that has been committed so it seems that they agree. Anna Soubry seems to think they "crossed a line." I'd be interested to know who defines what the line is and where she thinks they had committed a criminal act (and also if she'd be so quick to talk about this if it was little Owen and his posse shouting similar a those she disagrees with.)

    Having said that I don't think anyone should be shouting and calling people nazi and fascist because it's idiotic and pathetic and waters down that particular insult when it's actually true.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 08-01-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  10. #9260

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Plenty of leave voters have been screamed at in the street and subject to all sorts of nasty slurs yet not a peep. I don't think shouting at any individual regardless of their gender should be illegal and it seems the police are really struggling to find a crime that has been committed so it seems that they agree.

    Having said that I don't think anyone should be shouting and calling people nazi and fascist because it's idiotic and pathetic and waters down that particular insult when it's actually true.
    I couldn’t give two f**ks about the Nazi label -other than it being historically literate. That it’s uttered by far right cretins only makes it more thick and pig ignorant.

    By contrast, gender clearly does matter, especially when there’s an undercurrent of physical intimidation. It’s out of order, whether it’s directed Anna Soubry or Kate Hoey (though as far as I know Hoey hasn’t been subject to the same abuse).
    Last edited by shurlock; 08-01-2019 at 03:32 PM.

  11. #9261

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Plenty of female leave voters have been screamed at in the street and subject to all sorts of nasty slurs yet not a peep. I don't think shouting at any individual regardless of their gender should be illegal and it seems the police are really struggling to find a crime that has been committed so it seems that they agree. Anna Soubry seems to think they "crossed a line." I'd be interested to know who defines what the line is and where she thinks they had committed a criminal act (and also if she'd be so quick to talk about this if it was little Owen and his posse shouting similar a those she disagrees with.)

    Having said that I don't think anyone should be shouting and calling people nazi and fascist because it's idiotic and pathetic and waters down that particular insult when it's actually true.
    She's obviously got no criminal law knowledge if she think's a crime has been committed. It's not right, and it is worse for a women receiving it from a man, but it's not illegal.

  12. #9262

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    I couldn’t give two f**ks about the Nazi label -other than it being historically literate, especially when it’s uttered by far right cretins.

    And yes gender clearly does matter, especially when there’s an undercurrent of physical intimidation. It’s out of order, whether it’s directed Anna Soubry or Kate Hoey (though as far as I can tell Hoey hasn’t been subject to the same abuse).
    We will have to disagree there then I'm afraid. One person's "undercurrent of physical intimidation" is another person's perfectly legitimate right to protest. I fail to see how you can plausibly claim that a man using words to insult someone near them amounts to a criminal offence yet a woman doing the exact same thing would not. Maybe the protestors should get a bunch of their female friends to shout nazi at Soubry if that's the standard.

  13. #9263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    She's obviously got no criminal law knowledge if she think's a crime has been committed. It's not right, and it is worse for a women receiving it from a man, but it's not illegal.
    Yeah I'd agree with that. I do think it's worse if it's a man shouting abuse at a woman. My point is that it's not correct to suggest that one is criminal and the other isn't.

  14. #9264

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    We will have to disagree there then I'm afraid. One person's "undercurrent of physical intimidation" is another person's perfectly legitimate right to protest. I fail to see how you can plausibly claim that a man using words to insult someone near them amounts to a criminal offence yet a woman doing the exact same thing would not. Maybe the protestors should get a bunch of their female friends to shout nazi at Soubry if that's the standard.
    There’s a gap in the market. Maybe you could reprise your fake female alter ego pal.

  15. #9265

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    There’s a gap in the market. Maybe you could reprise your fake female alter ego pal.
    Fair enough you've lost the argument so you default to tired jibes and falsehoods. It's a pity but maybe foolish on my part for attempting a civil discussion.

  16. #9266

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Fair enough you've lost the argument so you default to tired jibes and falsehoods. It's a pity but maybe foolish on my part for attempting a civil discussion.
    Not really. You’re just transparently easy to read and boringly predictable. I’ve no issue with the Nazi jibe (as repeated before); but I can perfectly understand why she would feel physically intimidated despite her bluff and bluster (see the video from three weeks ago). This is especially the case when you consider that she’s been subject to numerous death threats. The gammon in yellow vests perfectly know what they’re doing - hence why calling Soubry a Nazi by tweet or online would never have the same effect.
    Last edited by shurlock; 08-01-2019 at 04:05 PM.

  17. #9267

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    Its evidently threatening behaviour, a criminal offence and has been for years, long before the term snowflake became fashionable.

    Threatening behaviour - fear or provocation of violence/ Racially or religiously aggravated threatening behaviour
    Public Order Act 1986. Racially or religiously aggravated threatening behaviour. Maximum when tried on indictment: 2 years

    Examples of nature of activity
    Fear or threat of low level immediate unlawful violence such as push, shove or spit
    Fear or threat of medium level immediate unlawful violence such as punch
    Fear or threat of high level immediate unlawful violence such as use of weapon; missile thrown; gang involvement
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...ing-behaviour/

  18. #9268

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    The gammon in yellow vests perfectly know what they’re doing - hence why calling Soubry a Nazi by tweet or online would never have the same effect.
    "Soubry is a Nazi" - hardly the epitome of intellectual debate. They'd have a job to muster one brain cell between the lot of them.

  19. #9269

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecuk268 View Post
    "Soubry is a Nazi" - hardly the epitome of intellectual debate. They'd have a job to muster one brain cell between the lot of them.
    Indeed. People who indiscriminately sling around insults like nazi or fascist are generally thick losers.

  20. Default

    Is Soubry really an actual nazi?

  21. #9271

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Indeed. People who indiscriminately sling around insults like nazi or fascist are generally thick losers.
    What next, jihadist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Its evidently threatening behaviour, a criminal offence and has been for years, long before the term snowflake became fashionable.

    Threatening behaviour - fear or provocation of violence/ Racially or religiously aggravated threatening behaviour
    Public Order Act 1986. Racially or religiously aggravated threatening behaviour. Maximum when tried on indictment: 2 years

    Examples of nature of activity
    Fear or threat of low level immediate unlawful violence such as push, shove or spit
    Fear or threat of medium level immediate unlawful violence such as punch
    Fear or threat of high level immediate unlawful violence such as use of weapon; missile thrown; gang involvement
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...ing-behaviour/
    This is correct. A criminal offence is plainly being committed, and to say it's just the use of the word 'Nazi' is disingenuous. Jo Cox was called similar names before a Brexit enthusiast shot and knifed her to death, so I wonder at why the police just stood by, given the precedent. Not surprisingly, they've now been instructed to apply the law.

    But it's depressing yet predictable that not one single Brexiter on here has condemned the racial abuse experienced by Faisal Islam and Femi Oduwole, and directed at them by a hard core of Yaxley-Lennonite fascists. I suppose it's par for the course in these times, when racist and misogynist abuse has been legitimised.

    This site has always had its share of racists, but they've always been somewhat coy about declaring their cretinous hands. Until now. Similarly, this site has had a small number of woman haters - one of which, I recall, came on here asking how to beat up his girlfriend after she had decided to dump him, and another who routinely refers to women as 'chicks'.

    Brexit has merely given these cretins a platform, and depressingly, has also drawn in pensioners and others who, having been inoffensive for years, have suddenly discovered their inner anti-Semite and race-'disliker'.

  23. #9273

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    What next, jihadist?
    Indeed. Jihadist is the insult for real troglodytes.

  24. #9274

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Is Soubry really an actual nazi?
    Clearly not and neither is 99.9% of other people who are accused by imbeciles.

    https://youtu.be/1RqAD8B39vA

  25. #9275

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    Sentiments that verbal agrees with no doubt:


  26. #9276

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    Default Meanwhile, the countdown to potential chaos continues.....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46799136

    The mayor of Ostend has told the BBC the Belgian port will not be ready for a new ferry line in time for Brexit.

    Bart Tommelein was asked about the UK government's award of a £13.8m contract to Seaborne Freight for a service between Ramsgate and Ostend.

    He said it was "impossible" that Ostend would be ready and that he was going to Ramsgate next week to discuss the situation with "all the stakeholders".

  27. #9277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Yeah this is so democratic.

    To free himself from this dependency, Hitler had the cabinet, in its first post-election meeting on 15 March, draw up plans for an Enabling Act which would give the cabinet legislative power for four years. The Nazis devised the Enabling Act to gain complete political power without the need of the support of a majority in the Reichstag and without the need to bargain with their coalition partners.

    Go look up how Hitler got into power while your there, and the mysterious burning down of the Reichstag..... Hitler wasn’t ever democratically elected, it might seem it on paper, but the ways he went about gaining support wasn’t democratic in the slightest.

    It’s probably best that both sides don’t use Hitler or The Nazi party to refer to each other, without knowing things about them.

    Peace out.


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  28. #9278

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    Hmm the Soubry thing will be seen by some on here as ‘remoaner chick In fake news’.

  29. #9279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    Yeah this is so democratic.

    To free himself from this dependency, Hitler had the cabinet, in its first post-election meeting on 15 March, draw up plans for an Enabling Act which would give the cabinet legislative power for four years. The Nazis devised the Enabling Act to gain complete political power without the need of the support of a majority in the Reichstag and without the need to bargain with their coalition partners.

    Go look up how Hitler got into power while your there, and the mysterious burning down of the Reichstag..... Hitler wasn’t ever democratically elected, it might seem it on paper, but the ways he went about gaining support wasn’t democratic in the slightest.

    It’s probably best that both sides don’t use Hitler or The Nazi party to refer to each other, without knowing things about them.

    Peace out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not saying it was free of corruption, but the Nazi's were still put in power democratically. Trump wasn't put into power without corruption, fake news and propaganda, but it's still classed as a democratic election.

  30. #9280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    I'm not saying it was free of corruption, but the Nazi's were still put in power democratically. Trump wasn't put into power without corruption, fake news and propaganda, but it's still classed as a democratic election.
    Stop, please stop....Trump might be bad but he never went to the lengths Hitler and the Nazi party did to “democratically” get power. I wouldn’t call it corruption either.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnersaint View Post
    Hmm the Soubry thing will be seen by some on here as ‘remoaner chick In fake news’.
    I'm just pleased that the middle class regressives have finally accepted that screaming nazi at people you disagree with politically is wrong. Odd how long it took them to get there but they did in the end.

  32. #9282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    Stop, please stop....Trump might be bad but he never went to the lengths Hitler and the Nazi party did to “democratically” get power. I wouldn’t call it corruption either.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Their heads have gone mate. It is going to be hilarious reading this thread in about 2 months

  33. #9283

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage_Face View Post
    .....Trump might be bad but he never went to the lengths Hitler and the Nazi party did to “democratically” get power. I wouldn’t call it corruption either.
    Given the choice between The Donald and Hilary C I'm surprised that so many people bothered to vote at all. Imagine a direct vote for a nominal Head of State for the UK, where the candidates are Teresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
    Last edited by badgerx16; 09-01-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  34. #9284

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I'm just pleased that the middle class regressives have finally accepted that screaming nazi at people you disagree with politically is wrong. Odd how long it took them to get there but they did in the end.
    Calling Nazi sympathisers Nazis isn't such a stretch though is it. Calling a remainer a Nazi is just gibberish.

  35. Default French Brexit Video - Vive les Gilets Jaunes

    What the French gammons look like:


  36. Default

    What does Macron expect. With youth unemployment rates shown below, it is little wonder they are asking "What have the EU ever done for us".



    Mark my words, many disaffected people in the EU are watching the UK lead the way.

    "Today, Yellow shirt activists ‘Gilets Jaunes’, supported by up to 70% of the population are stepping up their efforts to de-throne President Macron and regain French sovereignty from the hands of the EU elites and globalists by organizing a protest at the Rothschilds Bank today. Calls are being made by prominent protesters to remove Euros from French banks to destabilize the regime."

    That's right, withdrawing euros and converting them into bitcoins to try and start a run on the banks. Sweet...

  37. #9287

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    Once again the forum simpleton shows he doesn’t understand the difference between the unemployment rate and ratio and the importance of looking at both in context.
    Last edited by shurlock; 09-01-2019 at 08:52 AM.

  38. #9288

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Calling Nazi sympathisers Nazis isn't such a stretch though is it. Calling a remainer a Nazi is just gibberish.
    As a far leftist and antifa supporter you assume everyone to the right of Marx is a so called nazi sympathiser so your opinion is irrelevant

  39. #9289

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Once again the forum simpleton shows he doesn’t understand the difference between the unemployment rate and ratio and the importance of looking at both in context.
    Go on, provide your own demonstration graphs of both in context. You know you want to. I make my request not because I argue against your opinion, but merely on the basis that it is the easiest thing to denigrate another's opinion with just a few insulting words, without bothering to pull it apart with reasoned argument as to why it is faulty. That is just plain lazy.

  40. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Go on, provide your own demonstration graphs of both in context. You know you want to. I make my request not because I argue against your opinion, but merely on the basis that it is the easiest thing to denigrate another's opinion with just a few insulting words, without bothering to pull it apart with reasoned argument as to why it is faulty. That is just plain lazy.
    I was well aware of the difference between unemployment ratio and rate in France, because I am highly intelligent. For that reason, I understand why the youth in France want out of the EU. Some arrogant people can't see it, because they're lost in the bullsh!t details and are out of touch. People like Anna Soubry, Theresa May and Macron are examples. Anyway, here's the lowdown on why the French yellow jackets will be burning cars and bringing down Macron soon. Hopefully it will spread.

    Are the French youth fine then? Does this mean that painfully-high French youth unemployment is a non-story? Not entirely. The French youth unemployment ratio has increased from 7.7 per cent to 9.1 per cent since 2005. Things have got worse over the past decade. Moreover, there are other features of the French jobs market that create difficulties for French youth. Mr Meager cites “the ‘insider-outsider’ nature of French employment contracts and the proliferation of short-term contracts which makes it harder for youngsters to break into permanent jobs.” In other words, it’s not just the number of jobs for young people, but their quality that matters. One must also consider the quality of the education. If young people are lingering in higher education for longer, perhaps because of a lack of opportunity in the jobs market, or because the wider economy is in recession, rather than because the education is beneficial, that could artificially skew the ratio figure.
    Crap jobs and pointless higher education. That's the answer the out of touch rich elite in France have come up with...

  41. #9291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    I was well aware of the difference between unemployment ratio and rate in France, because I am highly intelligent. For that reason, I understand why the youth in France want out of the EU. Some arrogant people can't see it, because they're lost in the bullsh!t details and are out of touch. People like Anna Soubry, Theresa May and Macron are examples. Anyway, here's the lowdown on why the French yellow jackets will be burning cars and bringing down Macron soon. Hopefully it will spread.



    Crap jobs and pointless higher education. That's the answer the out of touch rich elite in France have come up with...
    Sorry, so what is the reason in your opinion for the increase in youth unemployment in France then?

  42. #9292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    What does Macron expect. With youth unemployment rates shown below, it is little wonder they are asking "What have the EU ever done for us".
    The French never wanted the EU, they rejected the EU Constitution 55%/45%. But the powers that be knew better, changed the name to the Lisbon Treaty and steam rollered it through against the will of the people. A disgusting and blatant move against democracy. In a recent survey by the CSA Institute, 67% of the French don't support the EU, so it's not just the youth.

    And with the Italian deputy prime minister now providing vocal support for the yellow vests, the cracks are beginning to show.

    All is not well in Europe...... there won't be an EU left to leave at this rate LOL

  43. Default

    Constitutional crisis...?

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/09/b...d-stop-brexit/

    In an unprecedented move, John Bercow has chosen to overrule the advice of his clerks, selecting a Dominic Grieve amendment that forces the Government to hold rolling votes every three days following a defeat of the meaningful vote
    Last edited by trousers; 09-01-2019 at 11:11 AM.

  44. #9294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    .....because I am highly intelligent.
    Hang on, earlier in the thread you said that you were "a moron due to 7 years at King Edwards".

  45. #9295

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    It just shows how a lot of MP's have never negotiated in their lives. To ask for a vote to say that there could not be a 'no deal' is madness. That just takes the major negotiating point away from us in the discussion. The EU are as worried about us leaving without a deal as we are. It is a major negotiating point for us, to not have that is a nonsense. Barnier and co will love this

  46. #9296

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    As a far leftist and antifa supporter you assume everyone to the right of Marx is a so called nazi sympathiser so your opinion is irrelevant
    And yet here you are doing exactly the same thing - assuming that anybody to the left of Tony Blair is a 'far leftist'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    This was predicted By Guido before Christmas

    https://order-order.com/2018/12/27/b...vote-defeated/

    Bercow's anti-Brexit position is well know. If he allows Brexit to be thwarted by some underhand chicanery, then he will have severely undermined the electorate's trust in our system of Parliamentary democracy and the position of Speaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    This was predicted By Guido before Christmas

    https://order-order.com/2018/12/27/b...vote-defeated/

    Bercow's anti-Brexit position is well know. If he allows Brexit to be thwarted by some underhand chicanery, then he will have severely undermined the electorate's trust in our system of Parliamentary democracy and the position of Speaker.
    # Devil's advocate klaxon #

    Isn't he simply giving Parliamant more power/control, which is what Brexiteers were clamouring for (amongst other things)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bexy View Post
    And yet here you are doing exactly the same thing - assuming that anybody to the left of Tony Blair is a 'far leftist'.
    No I'm not at all that is a blatant lie. Anyone who is as vociferous a supporter of the terrorist organisation antifa as jonnyboy is is absolutely from the extreme left. That doesn't mean that every Labour supporter is- though Labour has been infiltrated by a large amount over the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    It just shows how a lot of MP's have never negotiated in their lives. To ask for a vote to say that there could not be a 'no deal' is madness. That just takes the major negotiating point away from us in the discussion. The EU are as worried about us leaving without a deal as we are. It is a major negotiating point for us, to not have that is a nonsense. Barnier and co will love this
    It has been clear from the start that either through ignorance of how negotiations are properly handled, or by a deliberate ploy to make our leaving as unattractive as possible, May and her remoaner dominated cabinet don't want us to leave the EU.

    As well as throwing away any negotiating strength by telling the other side that we will not walk away from any deal no matter how bad, we are also proposing to pay £39 billion for the privilege, without conditions applied to it that an acceptable free trade deal will be the price for it. Tell the EU that the full £39 billion will only be paid when the deal is signed, and that will concentrate their minds wonderfully.

    Furthermore, we have a substantial majority of remoaner MPs who voted to enact the referendum, to trigger Article 50, stood on manifestos promising to deliver on the decision of the referendum to leave the EU, and yet they are doing everything they can to renege on that promise. This truly is the most incompetent bunch of Parliamentarians that I have ever seen in my life, and they deserve everything they get come the next election. In the meantime, if there is the rise of more populist political parties and civil disorder in the streets, then it will be their fault.

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