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Thread: Post EU - The Way Forward

  1. Default Post EU - The Way Forward

    A Washington based conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, published a paper on the best option for the UK, should we leave the EU, focusing on free trade deals. To me, this is the most important thing to get right. (" It's all about the economy, stupid"). In summary, the report states:


    1. The U.S. and the U.K. should negotiate a free trade area based on the principles of national sovereignty and economic freedom.
    2. For both nations, the barrier to this goal is the European Union. Britain cannot negotiate unless it leaves the EU, while the U.S. has wrongly supported the EU over the sovereignty of its member nations.
    3. The U.S. policy of using Britain as its Trojan Horse in the EU is wrong in principle and doomed to failure in practice.
    4. The U.K. must ensure that its referendum on EU membership offers a real choice. There is no reason why the U.K., the world’s sixth-largest economy, cannot negotiate trade arrangements outside the EU.
    5. The benefits of an Anglo–American free trade area would be both economic and political. It would insulate the U.K. from the damaging effects of further EU regulatory interference and signal the two countries’ shared political commitment to their close relationship


    For those interested, the full text is here and I found it exciting and stimulating. Onwards and upwards!

    PS. For any miners out there, ignore the name of the centre publishing the paper....
    Last edited by Guided Missile; 16-12-2017 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Link works ...

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    A Washington based conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, published a paper on the best option for the UK, should we leave the EU, focusing on free trade deals. To me, this is the most important thing to get right. (" It's all about the economy, stupid"). In summary, the report states:


    1. The U.S. and the U.K. should negotiate a free trade area based on the principles of national sovereignty and economic freedom.
    2. For both nations, the barrier to this goal is the European Union. Britain cannot negotiate unless it leaves the EU, while the U.S. has wrongly supported the EU over the sovereignty of its member nations.
    3. The U.S. policy of using Britain as its Trojan Horse in the EU is wrong in principle and doomed to failure in practice.
    4. The U.K. must ensure that its referendum on EU membership offers a real choice. There is no reason why the U.K., the world’s sixth-largest economy, cannot negotiate trade arrangements outside the EU.
    5. The benefits of an Anglo–American free trade area would be both economic and political. It would insulate the U.K. from the damaging effects of further EU regulatory interference and signal the two countries’ shared political commitment to their close relationship


    For those interested, the full text is at http://www.heritage.org/ and I found it exciting and stimulating. Onwards and upwards!

    PS. For any miners out there, ignore the name of the centre publishing the paper....
    How long will this take, how many people go bust in the meantime and will I still be alive when it's all settled?

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    How long will this take, how many people go bust in the meantime and will I still be alive when it's all settled?
    Calm down dear, it's only the EU...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Calm down dear, it's only the EU...
    Are you serious? This is far worse than 2008. The fall in the world's stockmarkets on Friday was $2,000,000,000,000 .

    As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused.

  5. Default

    The negotiations on the TTIP between the EU and the US were started in 2013 and are not expected to be complete until 2020. The French will make sure they are never completed.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The negotiations on the TTIP between the EU and the US were started in 2013 and are not expected to be complete until 2020. The French will make sure they are never completed.
    And if they are completed before us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The negotiations on the TTIP between the EU and the US were started in 2013 and are not expected to be complete until 2020. The French will make sure they are never completed.

    Correct, Valls said only yesterday that there wouldn't be a TTIP, said it was undesirable and impossible.
    Mind you with elections in 10 months time who knows.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Are you serious? This is far worse than 2008. The fall in the world's stockmarkets on Friday was $2,000,000,000,000 .

    As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused.
    Thank you for that, Private Frazer. I think you have no idea how a weak pound will enhance the value of UK stocks when the gamblers quit the scene and the long term value of UK plc is recognised. In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship. I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Thank you for that, Private Frazer. I think you have no idea how a weak pound will enhance the value of UK stocks when the gamblers quit the scene and the long term value of UK plc is recognised. In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship. I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....
    Brilliant, compelling analysis. I've seen the perfect job ad for you on the FT:

    Wanted: Trade negotiators, no experience necessary. Average intelligence desirable.

    Apply to: Absolutely Clueless, BoJo House.

    Pay: Tons of Zimbabwe dollars.

    It would suit you perfectly, pal

    #tiredofexperts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....
    Says the man who doesnt know the difference between derivatives and debt and thinks Deutsche owes 50 times the GDP of Germany and will wipe out Europe.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Thank you for that, Private Frazer. I think you have no idea how a weak pound will enhance the value of UK stocks when the gamblers quit the scene and the long term value of UK plc is recognised. In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship. I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....
    It's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of a certainty.

    The pound has plummeted against the dollar and so has the Euro, to some extent, so imports are much more expensive but selling prices have not gone down. In any case, the 20% drop in 2008 (from $1.86!) did nothing to improve exports so there's no guarantee that this fall will be of any help.

    Please explain to me how a weak £ enhances the value of UK stocks?

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Says the man who doesnt know the difference between derivatives and debt and thinks Deutsche owes 50 times the GDP of Germany and will wipe out Europe.
    I'm relying on the price of Deutsche Banks 5 year credit default swaps and the fact no one knew about Lehmans because bankers all whistle in the dark. A lot of the EU problems were swept hidden from us voters until the referendum was over. It'll all come out over the next few months. Italy, Spain and Portugal are in the ****, with Greece a basket case. I assume you know something that I don't that leads you to a different view? I doubt it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Are you serious? This is far worse than 2008. The fall in the world's stockmarkets on Friday was $2,000,000,000,000 .

    As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused.
    I don't know why you're so worried.

    Once the Brexit lot has published their plan, everything will be sunshine and light.

    They do have a plan, don't they?

    Surely they wouldn't embark on such a momentous change without first drawing up a detailed programme of how do deal with the hundreds of strategic issues that will need to be addressed?

    Or am I being naive?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecuk268 View Post
    I don't know why you're so worried.

    Once the Brexit lot has published their plan, everything will be sunshine and light.

    They do have a plan, don't they?

    Surely they wouldn't embark on such a momentous change without first drawing up a detailed programme of how do deal with the hundreds of strategic issues that will need to be addressed?

    Or am I being naive?
    You're one of the few that isn't.

    That's been the problem all along. The Brexiteers were neither in a position to deliver what they promised nor take the consequences for it. What they wanted was for a narrow remain vote so that they could continue their world of blaming all the ills of Britain on the EU. Now their whole reason for being has evaporated and UKIP might as well disband. All their calls for a Brexit government are a bit hollow considering there is an overwhelming majority in Parliament for remaining in the EU, a Parliament that is only just over one year old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    I'm relying on the price of Deutsche Banks 5 year credit default swaps and the fact no one knew about Lehmans because bankers all whistle in the dark. A lot of the EU problems were swept hidden from us voters until the referendum was over. It'll all come out over the next few months. Italy, Spain and Portugal are in the ****, with Greece a basket case. I assume you know something that I don't that leads you to a different view? I doubt it...
    They are losing money and will need recapitalisation for sure, but its a couple of tens of billions not armeggedon. Banks are like a combination of bookie and insurance company now - covering business against unexpected movements in price / value. Most of their exposure is covered by other positions. Bookies write billions of pounds of business each years even though their capitalisation is a tiny fraction of that. The wins offset the losses and nobody seriously expects that they will have to pay out on every bet.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    They are losing money and will need recapitalisation for sure, but its a couple of tens of billions not armeggedon. Banks are like a combination of bookie and insurance company now - covering business against unexpected movements in price / value. Most of their exposure is covered by other positions. Bookies write billions of pounds of business each years even though their capitalisation is a tiny fraction of that. The wins offset the losses and nobody seriously expects that they will have to pay out on every bet.
    And they are backed by governments. Just as Carney promised £250bn if needed. There's plenty to play with, they can always print some more.

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    They are losing money and will need recapitalisation for sure, but its a couple of tens of billions not armeggedon. Banks are like a combination of bookie and insurance company now - covering business against unexpected movements in price / value. Most of their exposure is covered by other positions. Bookies write billions of pounds of business each years even though their capitalisation is a tiny fraction of that. The wins offset the losses and nobody seriously expects that they will have to pay out on every bet.
    Banks are nothing like bookies or insurance companies. They 100% rely on confidence in the strength of their asset base. If that goes, they are screwed. Unlike bookies and insurance companies. they are unable to cover their positions, should everyone withdraw their deposits. Once a run starts, that is the end. Deutsche Bank are too big to be allowed to fail, but also too big to rescue. I am sure they are not the only EU financial institution screwed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Brilliant, compelling analysis. I've seen the perfect job ad for you on the FT:

    Wanted: Trade negotiators, no experience necessary. Average intelligence desirable.

    Apply to: Absolutely Clueless, BoJo House.

    Pay: Tons of Zimbabwe dollars.

    It would suit you perfectly, pal

    #tiredofexperts
    Must also be completely convinced mankind cannot affect the climate of the Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    A Washington based conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, published a paper on the best option for the UK, should we leave the EU, focusing on free trade deals. To me, this is the most important thing to get right. (" It's all about the economy, stupid"). In summary, the report states:


    1. The U.S. and the U.K. should negotiate a free trade area based on the principles of national sovereignty and economic freedom.
    2. For both nations, the barrier to this goal is the European Union. Britain cannot negotiate unless it leaves the EU, while the U.S. has wrongly supported the EU over the sovereignty of its member nations.
    3. The U.S. policy of using Britain as its Trojan Horse in the EU is wrong in principle and doomed to failure in practice.
    4. The U.K. must ensure that its referendum on EU membership offers a real choice. There is no reason why the U.K., the world’s sixth-largest economy, cannot negotiate trade arrangements outside the EU.
    5. The benefits of an Anglo–American free trade area would be both economic and political. It would insulate the U.K. from the damaging effects of further EU regulatory interference and signal the two countries’ shared political commitment to their close relationship


    For those interested, the full text is at http://www.heritage.org and I found it exciting and stimulating. Onwards and upwards!

    PS. For any miners out there, ignore the name of the centre publishing the paper....

    Noises coming out of the US are showing that we aren't at the back of the queue by any stretch of the imagination..


    • "They've been a great trading partner to the United States for decades and decades, and I wouldn't stop trading with them 'cause they got out of the EU," Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) said. "I'd be happy to negotiate a bilateral agreement."
    • Senate Finance Committee member Isakson added, "it might even be easier" than negotiating a broad agreement with the entire EU.
    • "We're interested in having free trade with anybody," Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said when asked about the prospects of a two-way agreement post-Brexit.
    • "We should now begin to discuss a modern, new trade agreement with the U.K that not only continues but expands the level of trade between our two nations," House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady said Friday
    • If the Brits vote to leave the EU, "there will be a new bilateral trade agreement,” Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton declared
    • Bill Reinsch, former president of the National Foreign Trade Council who is now a fellow at the Stimson Center, is also bullish on opening negotiations with the U.K. while “reaffirming our commitment to the EU.” “President Obama may have put [the U.K.] in the back of the queue when it comes to negotiating a trade agreement, but he should put that aside and move quickly to work out a bilateral agreement that builds on our relationship," Reinsch said.
    • Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) made it clear that he was all for encouraging more trade with Britain. “We will continue to work together,” he said of Britain, “to strengthen a robust trade relationship and to address our common security interests

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    Noises coming out of the US are showing that we aren't at the back of the queue by any stretch of the imagination..

    • Senate Finance Committee member Isakson added, "it might even be easier" than negotiating a broad agreement with the entire EU.
    **This**

    Without the 'complications' of the EU, a trade agreement with the US should be negotiable in a substantially reduced time-frame...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upwind View Post
    Without the 'complications' of the EU, a trade agreement with the US should be negotiable in a substantially reduced time-frame...
    ...once we reach the front of the queue

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    ...once we reach the front of the queue
    ... assuming that the USA is not capable of negotiating more than one deal at a time. I am disappointed, as I thought someone of your academic standing would get this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    ... assuming that the USA is not capable of negotiating more than one deal at a time. I am disappointed, as I thought someone of your academic standing would get this.
    Its true Johnny. The US have spare trade negotiators kept in a cupboard just in case a friend and ally suddenly finds themselves at a loose end. Its like burger flipping y'see, anyone can do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Its true Johnny. The US have spare trade negotiators kept in a cupboard just in case a friend and ally suddenly finds themselves at a loose end. Its like burger flipping y'see, anyone can do it.
    Yes but bearing in mind that they will already have trade agreements in place with many countries (https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements) and taking account of the fact that a trade deal is in the offing with a world top 6 economy, then maybe they might reschedule their current negotiations??? (applying the money talks, bull walks factor)

    Perhaps it is other countries that will be forced to the back of the queue... whilst we queue jump. Not a very British thing to do, but needs must.
    Last edited by Johnny Bognor; 28-06-2016 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    Yes but bearing in mind that they will already have trade agreements in place with many countries (https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements) and taking account of the fact that a trade deal is in the offing with a world top 6 economy, then maybe they might reschedule their current negotiations??? (applying the money talks, bull walks factor)

    Perhaps it is other countries that will be forced to the back of the queue... whilst we queue jump. Not a very British thing to do, but needs must.
    The reality is that the US will push Britain to to what is in its (US) best interests, and that is to stay in the EU. They aren't going to be making it easy for us to leave. If leaving becomes a fait accompli their attitude may change, but I wouldnt bet my economy on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    The reality is that the US will push Britain to to what is in its (US) best interests, and that is to stay in the EU. They aren't going to be making it easy for us to leave. If leaving becomes a fait accompli their attitude may change, but I wouldnt bet my economy on it.
    But as I pointed out above, the septics are making positive noises about their dear old limey friends...

    ... and we are on their radar
    https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-off...-UK-Referendum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    But as I pointed out above, the septics are making positive noises about their dear old limey friends...

    ... and we are on their radar
    https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-off...-UK-Referendum
    I'd say that statement supports my position above, not yours. They want the TTIP and they want Britain in the EU batting for it.

    Whether we get priority in queue jumping depends on who wins the Presidential election. Clinton isnt going to bolster the UK conservative right epitomised by Boris and Farage against her more natural allies the conservative left. Trump might, but then he isnt going to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I'd say that statement supports my position above, not yours. They want the TTIP and they want Britain in the EU batting for it.

    Whether we get priority in queue jumping depends on who wins the Presidential election. Clinton isnt going to bolster the UK conservative right epitomised by Boris and Farage against her more natural allies the conservative left. Trump might, but then he isnt going to win.
    Valls said yesterday that there will be no TTIP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Window Cleaner View Post
    Valls said yesterday that there will be no TTIP.
    He did. That doesn't mean there won't be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I'd say that statement supports my position above, not yours. They want the TTIP and they want Britain in the EU batting for it.

    Whether we get priority in queue jumping depends on who wins the Presidential election. Clinton isnt going to bolster the UK conservative right epitomised by Boris and Farage against her more natural allies the conservative left. Trump might, but then he isnt going to win.
    At the end of the day, the priority of negotiations isn't fixed. There is no orderly queue formed on a first come first served basis.

    In business, things change and you focus on the things that give you the most/best return. In value terms, I'm sure a deal with the EU would be preferable to the UK, especially if there was a strict choice between the two. But in the event of a quick deal with the UK, whilst EU negotiations continue, then that would happen. In addition, if there are negotiations on a trade deal with Swaziland and the UK comes along, do you not think that priorities might shift a bit?

    I guess you can't always correlate academic achievement with knowing how to win business and generate wealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    At the end of the day, the priority of negotiations isn't fixed. There is no orderly queue formed on a first come first served basis.

    In business, things change and you focus on the things that give you the most/best return. In value terms, I'm sure a deal with the EU would be preferable to the UK, especially if there was a strict choice between the two. But in the event of a quick deal with the UK, whilst EU negotiations continue, then that would happen. In addition, if there are negotiations on a trade deal with Swaziland and the UK comes along, do you not think that priorities might shift a bit?

    I guess you can't always correlate academic achievement with knowing how to win business and generate wealth.
    They arent in negotiations with Swaziland. We can do the **** waving about wealth creation if you like Johnny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    They arent in negotiations with Swaziland. We can do the **** waving about wealth creation if you like Johnny.
    Touched a nerve LOL

    At the end of the day, Obama's intervention was a load of bull. We're not at the back of any queue, because there is no queue....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    Touched a nerve LOL

    At the end of the day, Obama's intervention was a load of bull. We're not at the back of any queue, because there is no queue....
    Ultimately its a political decision. As no-one knows who the US President will be, who the UK PM will be or what the game plan will be, its a zero sum game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    But as I pointed out above, the septics are making positive noises about their dear old limey friends...

    ... and we are on their radar
    https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-off...-UK-Referendum
    Johnneh, many of those remarks are just mom-and-apple pie statements about how the US wants a tradiing relationship with the UK. Who doesn't? Obama never said he didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    .....because there is no queue....
    Is that because the doors are shut and the 'Closed' sign is up ?

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    At the end of the day, the priority of negotiations isn't fixed. There is no orderly queue formed on a first come first served basis.

    In business, things change and you focus on the things that give you the most/best return. In value terms, I'm sure a deal with the EU would be preferable to the UK, especially if there was a strict choice between the two. But in the event of a quick deal with the UK, whilst EU negotiations continue, then that would happen. In addition, if there are negotiations on a trade deal with Swaziland and the UK comes along, do you not think that priorities might shift a bit?

    I guess you can't always correlate academic achievement with knowing how to win business and generate wealth.
    We don't actually have any civil servants who can negotiate these deals. We haven't done that for 43 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Ultimately its a political decision. As no-one knows who the US President will be, who the UK PM will be or what the game plan will be, its a zero sum game.
    How is it a zero sum game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    We don't actually have any civil servants who can negotiate these deals. We haven't done that for 43 years.
    Richard Branson wasn't a pilot when he started Virgin Atlantic. Errrr... you hire them. Whether that means poaching them from the EU or elsewhere...
    Last edited by Johnny Bognor; 28-06-2016 at 02:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    Noises coming out of the US are showing that we aren't at the back of the queue by any stretch of the imagination..


    • "They've been a great trading partner to the United States for decades and decades, and I wouldn't stop trading with them 'cause they got out of the EU," Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) said. "I'd be happy to negotiate a bilateral agreement."
    • Senate Finance Committee member Isakson added, "it might even be easier" than negotiating a broad agreement with the entire EU.
    • "We're interested in having free trade with anybody," Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said when asked about the prospects of a two-way agreement post-Brexit.
    • "We should now begin to discuss a modern, new trade agreement with the U.K that not only continues but expands the level of trade between our two nations," House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady said Friday
    • If the Brits vote to leave the EU, "there will be a new bilateral trade agreement,” Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton declared
    • Bill Reinsch, former president of the National Foreign Trade Council who is now a fellow at the Stimson Center, is also bullish on opening negotiations with the U.K. while “reaffirming our commitment to the EU.” “President Obama may have put [the U.K.] in the back of the queue when it comes to negotiating a trade agreement, but he should put that aside and move quickly to work out a bilateral agreement that builds on our relationship," Reinsch said.
    • Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) made it clear that he was all for encouraging more trade with Britain. “We will continue to work together,” he said of Britain, “to strengthen a robust trade relationship and to address our common security interests
    These appear to be all Republicans making these comments, when it's looking increasingly likely that a Democrat will be the President.

  40. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    We don't actually have any civil servants who can negotiate these deals. We haven't done that for 43 years.
    You should have read the paper I linked. To quote a small part:
    But the argument that Britain, as a non-EU member, would not be able to negotiate satisfactory trading arrangements has no substance. Certainly, there are many ways that Britain could leave the EU and many possible ways to govern the continuing U.K.–EU trade after Britain’s departure, but the example of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) shows that concerns about Britain’s ability to negotiate once it leaves the EU are unfounded. EFTA, whose four members are non-EU states Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland, has negotiated many free trade agreements. While the EU’s record of concluding such agreements (outside Europe, it has 18 FTAs) is comparable to that of the U.S. (which has 20 FTAs), it is worse than that of EFTA, which has FTAs with 35 nations.

    The EU is very good at announcing the commencement of FTA negotiations but less good at concluding agreements. For example, to the frustration of many in the U.K., including Prime Minister David Cameron, the EU’s negotiations with India are “far from being concluded,” while negotiations between EFTA and India are proceeding.[9] EFTA member states have signed FTA agreements with China. As Conservative member of the European Parliament Daniel Hannan recently noted, were it not an EU member, “Britain would have signed a bilateral free trade agreement with the United States decades ago.”[10] Given the fact that the U.S. has free trade agreements with many nations that have much smaller economies than that of the U.K. and are considerably less vital economic partners and strategic allies, Hannan is certainly correct.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    You should have read the paper I linked. To quote a small part:
    Where does that say that we have the skills and experience to undertake these negotiations?

    In any case, a trade deal is nothing as straightforward as the Single Market. Sending to France (or any EU member) at the moment is a doddle, you just send it. Sending to anywhere in the rest of the world is a palaver and involves delays and costs. Having a trade deal doesn't mean that there will be any trade.

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
    These appear to be all Republicans making these comments, when it's looking increasingly likely that a Democrat will be the President.
    The Democratic party in the US is similar in political position of the centre of the Conservative party, which was Blairite itself under Cameron. The main danger to trade deals is if Corbyn gets in. (I had trouble typing that. It's not easy when you're laughing uncontrollably)

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    Richard Branson wasn't a pilot when he started Virgin Atlantic. Errrr... you hire them. Whether that means poaching them from the EU or elsewhere...
    Would these be the same EU people who will be stopped from entering Britain?

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    You should have read the paper I linked. To quote a small part:
    The link wouldn't open on my machine

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Would these be the same EU people who will be stopped from entering Britain?
    We have a Government department with offices in over 100 countries that is responsible for promoting UK Trade
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...vestment/about

    I will let you into a little secret. We do have trade relations with dozens of countries already...
    https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/con...ia-and-pacific

    In fact, the UK are already actively involved in negotiations....
    https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/uk-trade-relations-commonwealth


    To suggest otherwise is another Project Fear lie. Jeez, I am really starting to question whether academic acheivement correlates to intelligence



    Last edited by Johnny Bognor; 28-06-2016 at 02:31 PM.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Where does that say that we have the skills and experience to undertake these negotiations?

    In any case, a trade deal is nothing as straightforward as the Single Market. Sending to France (or any EU member) at the moment is a doddle, you just send it. Sending to anywhere in the rest of the world is a palaver and involves delays and costs. Having a trade deal doesn't mean that there will be any trade.
    Rejoin EFTA in the meantime, then. You should remember EFTA, Whitey. I still have the stamps. Here is the free trade agreements they have and none of it involves kowtowing to Brussels, only filling in an application form:


  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    The Democratic party in the US is similar in political position of the centre of the Conservative party, which was Blairite itself under Cameron. The main danger to trade deals is if Corbyn gets in. (I had trouble typing that. It's not easy when you're laughing uncontrollably)
    Its a bit more complicated pal. If you've followed the primaries closely (obviously you haven't), you'll have noted that there has been hardening on both sides against free trade.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e3451d6-3...#axzz4CmlHTiTJ

    "Free trade will not have an ally in the White House next year"

  48. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    We have a Government department with offices in over 100 countries that is responsible for promoting UK Trade
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...vestment/about

    I will let you into a little secret. We do have trade relations with dozens of countries already...
    https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/con...ia-and-pacific

    In fact, the UK are already actively involved in negotiations....
    https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/uk-trade-relations-commonwealth


    To suggest otherwise is another Project Fear lie. Jeez, I am really starting to question whether academic acheivement correlates to intelligence



    Please don't try to lecture me on world trade. I have been selling stuff across the world for over 30 years. Nothing is as straightforward as the Single Market. Anything else costs more.

  49. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    The link wouldn't open on my machine
    Here's another one for you to read and the original one is here.

    Read and learn. You're never too old!

    PS: The UK have a very large number of lawyers and civil servants who will be out of a job, now that we have left the EU.

  50. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Nothing is as straightforward as the Single Market. Anything else costs more.
    You just don't have a clue, Whitey. The EU is a regulatory nightmare, one I am just waking up from. Alright if your selling washers, but for anything the Germans and French want to protect, you're f*****

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