Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Herbert the champagne socialist trapped in a doomed dogma:

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Congrats you can cite the apocalyptic drivel of one random conservative MP. So I can my dog. Of course I’m sure you can point me to where in the 2017 manifesto it promises a class-led reckoning? My dog had difficulties with that one.

It goes without saying you can’t read - otherwise you would have noticed I said I was very critical of the 2017 election manifesto. But as a descriptive point, comparing it to the Venezuela’s growth model is pure strawman nonsense. Next you’ll be saying that figures like Jim O’Neill, former Goldman Sachs Chief Economist who have actually praised aspects of Corbyn’s economic agenda, are full-on commies.

Must try harder pal

Barely an annihilation. Just a simple swatting away of a wasp drugged up on some shi tbag chemical fertiliser.

Do come again GM. Maybe a news story about Chad or Guernsey could also be enlightening about Brexit next time.

This is how news of the Nissan X-Trail is going down on Sunderland’s forum;

‘larrysimon’

If this news is Nissan being vindicative against the “people” who voted to leave the EU..... Then **** them, we have seen all the ship yards, pits and heavy engineering all go..... and “we the people” ARE STILL HERE.

We stood facing Europe alone in 1940..... So Johnny Foreigner can go and **** off..... We will prevail.

Comments like this highlight that this country as a whole deserves to be nominated for the Darwin Awards.

My faith in humanity was slightly restored by some of the responses this comment received, in particular;

‘Medulla’

Larry, by any chance have you consumed eight gallons of the finest lead paint?

This is how news of the Nissan X-Trail is going down on Sunderland’s forum;

 

‘larrysimon’

 

If this news is Nissan being vindicative against the “people” who voted to leave the EU..... Then **** them, we have seen all the ship yards, pits and heavy engineering all go..... and “we the people” ARE STILL HERE.

 

We stood facing Europe alone in 1940..... So Johnny Foreigner can go and **** off..... We will prevail.

 

 

 

 

Why do you spend your time citing tabloid fantasies and detailing your response to them, yet devote no effort to analysing the actual economic consequences of Brexit?

Are JLR, Barclays, Nissan et al of any interest to you? What is your opinion on the proposed job losses? Do you feel these losses are coincidental with Brexit, or caused by it? Is this a good thing, bad thing, or if no consequence?

Just ‘loling’ at the imagined opposition tells us nothing of value.

Tabloid fantasies? The article was taken from The Times. But a nice bit of whataboutery from you deflecting from the story and not feeling inclined to comment on that. I say that there won't be any rioting if we leave without a FTA with the EU and that there is no way that the Royal Family would be threatened. The only civil disorder will be if Brexit isn't delivered. Is the story rubbish, or not? I have it down as yet another little fantasy from project fear.

But since you ask about my opinion on the actual economic consequences of Brexit, I have already said on more than one occasion that I believe that if we leave on WTO terms, which is now the best option when compared with the awful May deal (with or without the backstop) after a short term blip, we will begin to pull ahead strongly. Substantial job losses, a recession, an emergency budget, falling house prices etc, were all forecast as a direct result of us even voting to leave the EU and none of those happened, so excuse me if I take these Mk11 project fear prophecies with a shovel of salt.

Foreign owned corporations have learnt that if they make threats, they will be rewarded with state sponsored bribery. We don't know what sweetheart deal Cameron promised Nissan after Brexit, but it appears that they have gone back on the deal.

Has this country really come to this? Bribing companies to build cars in the UK? In the 50's we were the largest car exporter in the world. Even today, Motorsport Valley, which spans an area from Warwickshire through to Berkshire, is home to around 3,500 companies – including eight F1 teams – employing over 40,000 people. At the last count, Motorsport Valley was said to contribute £9bn to the UK economy.

F*** Nissan and the crook that ran them, f*** VW and the rest of the German diesel cheats. Let's stand alone and sell the world what we are best at, not the Lego assembly of cars nobody will be buying in 10 years.

Tabloid fantasies? The article was taken from The Times. But a nice bit of whataboutery from you deflecting from the story and not feeling inclined to comment on that. I say that there won't be any rioting if we leave without a FTA with the EU and that there is no way that the Royal Family would be threatened. The only civil disorder will be if Brexit isn't delivered. Is the story rubbish, or not? I have it down as yet another little fantasy from project fear.

 

But since you ask about my opinion on the actual economic consequences of Brexit, I have already said on more than one occasion that I believe that if we leave on WTO terms, which is now the best option when compared with the awful May deal (with or without the backstop) after a short term blip, we will begin to pull ahead strongly. Substantial job losses, a recession, an emergency budget, falling house prices etc, were all forecast as a direct result of us even voting to leave the EU and none of those happened, so excuse me if I take these Mk11 project fear prophecies with a shovel of salt.

What’s a short-term blip in LesWorld?

Foreign owned corporations have learnt that if they make threats, they will be rewarded with state sponsored bribery. We don't know what sweetheart deal Cameron promised Nissan after Brexit, but it appears that they have gone back on the deal.

Has this country really come to this? Bribing companies to build cars in the UK? In the 50's we were the largest car exporter in the world. Even today, Motorsport Valley, which spans an area from Warwickshire through to Berkshire, is home to around 3,500 companies – including eight F1 teams – employing over 40,000 people. At the last count, Motorsport Valley was said to contribute £9bn to the UK economy.

F*** Nissan and the crook that ran them, f*** VW and the rest of the German diesel cheats. Let's stand alone and sell the world what we are best at, not the Lego assembly of cars nobody will be buying in 10 years.

How big is the export market, world wide, for F1 cars ? If you take away Honda, Nissan, and Toyota, and other 'foreign' brands, how much of the UK's car production is lost ?

FYI:- https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/manufacturing/

Which EU country is the new X-Trail going to be built in?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Which EU country is the new X-Trail going to be built in?

They do seem to have warped sense of geography;

"

Nissan said it had decided to "optimise its investments in Europe" by consolidating X-Trail production in Kyushu"

They do seem to have warped sense of geography;

"

Nissan said it had decided to "optimise its investments in Europe" by consolidating X-Trail production in Kyushu"

You do realise that the EU and Japan recently signed a FTA which will cut 10% import duties on cars produced in Japan to zero (over coming years)?

Some industry journos also speculating that France might produce the X-Trail in the future.

BREXIT latest:

DOWNSIDE

Nissan, Sony, Airbus, Panasonic, Dyson, JaguarLR etc off/cutting jobs

No food

No medicine

Manufacturing collapse

NI peace in danger

NHS/social care meltdown

Kent = car park

Riots

Actual **** everywhere

UPSIDE

Blue passport

Brexit 50p

Prince Philip in hiding and unable to drive

Foreign owned corporations have learnt that if they make threats, they will be rewarded with state sponsored bribery. We don't know what sweetheart deal Cameron promised Nissan after Brexit, but it appears that they have gone back on the deal.

Has this country really come to this? Bribing companies to build cars in the UK? In the 50's we were the largest car exporter in the world. Even today, Motorsport Valley, which spans an area from Warwickshire through to Berkshire, is home to around 3,500 companies – including eight F1 teams – employing over 40,000 people. At the last count, Motorsport Valley was said to contribute £9bn to the UK economy.

F*** Nissan and the crook that ran them, f*** VW and the rest of the German diesel cheats. Let's stand alone and sell the world what we are best at, not the Lego assembly of cars nobody will be buying in 10 years.

Good lad.

What’s a short-term blip in LesWorld?

He is probably happy with all this

UK products will face tariffs if sold into the EU - for example cars at 10% and shoes at 8%. Some UK producers will become uncompetitive when facing these tariffs, especially compared to EU producers, and will therefore cease production

UK products which require testing to be placed on the EU market will need a test carried out within the EU, a UK test will not be sufficient. This will add costs to production.

There will be no customs cooperation between the UK and EU, thus for example no mutual recognition of the Authorised Economic Operator scheme. Products are therefore likely to take more time to go through customs checks

UK agricultural exporters will face potentially even higher tariffs, such as 42% on cheddar cheese. Our access to the lower tariff rate quotas is uncertain, without which many agricultural exports will be not be competitive

There will also be extensive checks on EU agricultural exports to the EU, which will further add costs, and there will not be veterinary equivalence schemes in place to facilitate these

UK service providers will not have the right to sell certain services across the EU, particularly direct from the UK. In many cases they will have to set up new offices in the EU

Many UK based staff will not have the right to work across the EU, for example as tour reps for UK travel companies. EU citizens would have to take these roles

UK haulage companies would not be able to carry loads between EU destinations, and could for the short term only carry from UK to an EU destination and return. This will make them uncompetitive to EU hauliers

The tariffs on goods, and restrictions on services, will also apply to countries with who the EU has a current trade agreement that the UK fails to replicate - for example there is likely to be no agreement with Turkey

In no-deal Brexit there will be no agreement with the EU on data adequacy or financial services equivalence. This will mean extra cost for all UK companies who move data between UK and EU for example

The UK Government will have to decide on whether to keep or reduce our own tariffs. This will not be an easy decision - lower tariffs may help consumers but harm UK producers and developing countries who currently get particular privileges

Over 50% of UK trade will be affected by these changes. Less than 10% of EU trade will be affected by these changes. UK costs will rise, EU costs are unlikely to do so. This will be a major change to the terms of trade between us

These issues are why even no-deal advocates talk of 'managed no-deal', or a deal with the EU. But if all of this is going to affect the UK more than the EU there is no reason for the EU to offer a more generous deal than that on offer now

All of these are the sort of issues which are typically resolved in a free trade agreement. But these take time, typically in the EU 5-7 years. Waiting this time would mean all of these issues being maintained, affecting UK competitiveness

Some no-deal advocates claim the UK could gain competitiveness by scrapping EU regulations, however it would be difficult then to negotiate a trade deal with the EU at the same time.

The UK is expecting to start Free Trade Agreement negotiations with US and others in a no-deal situation. However if the UK economy is changing it will not be clear which sectors the UK should prioritise.

Well Known incompatibilities between US and EU will also cause problems, if we accept US agriculture this will make a good trade deal with the EU harder. It will take time for the UK to make these decisions

He is probably happy with all this

Ooh, look. He can cut and paste from this. I guess this is how you passed your 2 GCSE's although I guess the one in woodwork was all your own.

Ooh, look. He can cut and paste from this. I guess this is how you passed your 2 GCSE's although I guess the one in woodwork was all your own. [emoji38]

..... I guess this is how you passed your 2 GCSE's although I guess the one in woodwork was all your own.

Is that 2 more than you ?

How big is the export market, world wide, for F1 cars ? If you take away Honda, Nissan, and Toyota, and other 'foreign' brands, how much of the UK's car production is lost ?

FYI:- https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/manufacturing/

Also as the Italian economy is looking in desperate state it may be a plus if we are not part of the EU helping to pay for a bail out

Im as concerned about the loss of car production but the industry is going to go through a lot of pain in the next 5-10 years anyway as the electric motor will take over. That will mean a lot of old fashioned engineering jobs will be lost and the new technology doesn't need engines, carburettors etc as we know it.

Also as the Italian economy is looking in desperate state it may be a plus if we are not part of the EU helping to pay for a bail out

Wrong. It was agreed in 2011 that the UK (and other EU countries not in the eurozone) would not have to pay for any future eurozone bailouts. Keep up ffs.

Is that 2 more than you ?

Jihadi John flunked his A levels didn't you know? He couldn't get into a proper university and ended up at Pompey Polytechnic

You do realise that the EU and Japan recently signed a FTA which will cut 10% import duties on cars produced in Japan to zero (over coming years)?

 

Some industry journos also speculating that France might produce the X-Trail in the future.

It would make sense - Nissan and Renault share chassis and technology.

Didn’t take long for the swivels to show their true colours - now stating they won’t accept either a unilateral withdrawal clause or an end date to the backstop as a compromise to reach a deal with the EU. May, ever the venal, short-sighted, tribal politician, will never learn. Having banked her surrender last week, they will just be back for more blood. There is no point pandering to extremists.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/backstop-hardliners-are-setting-theresa-may-up-to-fail-qn76pnzcq

Are women not allowed to spend money in this misogynistic world of yours? The economic landscape has changed dramatically since the 70's for a significant proportion of the population. Hey, they're even allowed to go to work now and earn their own money - which they are allowed to spend in shops and restaurants and even pubs!

The alternative view for the reasons why Nissan is moving X Trail production from Sunderland

I wonder who will be a major player, worldwide, in setting the regulations and standards that will define this new industry?

Marina Hyde on message this morning:

"I desperately need to get some work done today, but have decided to set up an Alternative Arrangements Working Group to look at what even is work, why I should have to do it, and whether I might retroactively change my work contract to remove the idea of work from it entirely."

 

The alternative view for the reasons why Nissan is moving X Trail production from Sunderland

Talking about TalkRADIO, did you see your fellow extremist, Daniel Kawczynski, come a bit unstuck after claiming that Britain didn’t receive a penny under the Marshall Plan?

Talking about TalkRADIO, did you see your fellow extremist, Daniel Kawczynski, come a bit unstuck after claiming that Britain didn’t receive a penny under the Marshall Plan?

No, I didn't

Talking about TalkRADIO, did you see your fellow extremist, Daniel Kawczynski, come a bit unstuck after claiming that Britain didn’t receive a penny under the Marshall Plan?

This would be the same Daniel Kawczynski, who campaigned for the UK to 'get back' it's sovereignty, yet has asked the Polish Government to canvass within the EU to allow an extension to A50. ( And in relation to the Marshall Plan error, said that despite his post being totally inaccurate, he stood by what he wrote ).

Foreign owned corporations have learnt that if they make threats, they will be rewarded with state sponsored bribery. We don't know what sweetheart deal May promised Nissan after Brexit, but it appears that they have gone back on the deal.

Has this country really come to this? Bribing companies to build cars in the UK?

The bribe I was referring to, above, was worth £60m according to the Times this morning. Nissan have gone back on the deal and ministers are considering withdrawing the offer.

 

The alternative view for the reasons why Nissan is moving X Trail production from Sunderland

"The x-trail is a Diesel SUV"

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/x-trail/prices-specifications.html#grade-XTRAILT32C-0|overview

"Barely sell any in Europe... Outdated, outmoded, unpopular, unwanted car"

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/nissan/nissan-xtrail/

Chalk that one up to ERG-quality research.

The bribe I was referring to, above, was worth £60m according to the Times this morning. Nissan have gone back on the deal and ministers are considering withdrawing the offer.

 

So, you post a picture of a tax-dodger who has residence in Monaco, and has said he will live in Colorado when he stops racing, as he has no intention of returning to the UK.

Looking back at this story, from 31 October 2016, it's clear that May has been done like a kipper and is probably the worst negotiator and PM ever.

The UK car industry has been assured that the deal offered to Nissan - which would eliminate any tariffs imposed on the companies' exports to Europe - will be offered to all car manufacturers, according to business secretary Greg Clark. Talking on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show, Clark said: “It is my job to provide the assurances to Nissan and others that Britain is going to continue to be a great place to invest. I was able to do that and this [Nissan’s continuing investment] was the result that we saw. “One of the assurances I was able to give is that our intention, our negotiating remit when it comes to the discussions with our European partners is to have a constructive and civilised dialogue to look for the common interest here.

 

The government’s promises, which were made earlier this month to the UK’s largest producer of cars, Nissan, prompted the firm to continue investment in its Sunderland plant. Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn had previously warned at the Paris motor show that a so-called ‘hard Brexit’ could cause the car giant to reconsider its future investment in Sunderland, saying "If I need to make an investment in the next few months and I can’t wait until the end of Brexit, then I have to make a deal with the UK government." “Our objective would be to ensure that we have a continued access to the markets in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach the negotiations. It is important to manufacturing they get the minimum or no tariffs and no impediments,” Clark added.

 

After Nissan boss Ghosn’s talk with Theresa May, which he described as "positive and productive", Ghosn said the government "will continue to ensure the UK remains a competitive place to do business", but did not clarify exactly what was said. He later said: “The support and assurances of the UK government enabled us to decide that the next-generation Qashqai and X-Trail will be produced at Sunderland. I welcome British Prime Minister Theresa May’s commitment to the automotive industry in Britain and to the development of an overall industrial strategy.”

Meanwhile, in Japan, the architect of this £60m con-trick is in jail after being denied bail:

A Tokyo court has rejected Carlos Ghosn's latest request for bail, despite his promise to wear an electronic tag to secure his release. The former Nissan boss has been in detention since 19 November on allegations of financial misconduct. Lawyers for Mr Ghosn, who denies any wrongdoing, have said he could remain in custody for months.

Brexit, innit...

Car industry is in a pickle, caused by most governments. Gave us cool tax Incentives us to all go buy Diesels and now they are punishing us. Car's like X-Trails and Qashqui I would imagine be bought as Diesels, due to size to weight ratio and what engine would give you better MPG etc. Now you might not get the tax breaks etc, sod buying that, go back to Unleaded, if you go unleaded the weight would muller the MPG, so get a saloon or something.

I reckon we've got about 10-15 years left of new cars being the old fashioned Combustion Engine. Also Japanese dominance of the car market is slowly fading out, German cars are overtaking them in terms of tech, self drive, etc etc. God most Japanese cars have German ADAS tech in them (Bosch, Continental and ZF-TRW)

I believe Nissan have been looking to move manufacturing of the Qashqui back to Japan for awhile now, they did drop that Brexit bit in as after sentence, main reasons due to plummeting Diesel sales, which these odd SUV crossover cars are mainly bought as.

So, you post a picture of a tax-dodger who has residence in Monaco, and has said he will live in Colorado when he stops racing, as he has no intention of returning to the UK.

Woosh...

The bribe I was referring to, above, was worth £60m according to the Times this morning. Nissan have gone back on the deal and ministers are considering withdrawing the offer.

 

The fewer they sell of those stupid ****ing SUVs the better anyway.

Car industry is in a pickle, caused by most governments. Gave us cool tax Incentives us to all go buy Diesels and now they are punishing us. Car's like X-Trails and Qashqui I would imagine be bought as Diesels, due to size to weight ratio and what engine would give you better MPG etc. Now you might not get the tax breaks etc, sod buying that, go back to Unleaded, if you go unleaded the weight would muller the MPG, so get a saloon or something.

 

I reckon we've got about 10-15 years left of new cars being the old fashioned Combustion Engine. Also Japanese dominance of the car market is slowly fading out, German cars are overtaking them in terms of tech, self drive, etc etc. God most Japanese cars have German ADAS tech in them (Bosch, Continental and ZF-TRW)

 

I believe Nissan have been looking to move manufacturing of the Qashqui back to Japan for awhile now, they did drop that Brexit bit in as after sentence, main reasons due to plummeting Diesel sales, which these odd SUV crossover cars are mainly bought as.

Qashqi's are really just Ford Focus size, but on stilts. They aren't true SUVs. Nissan arent moving the Qashqi back to Japan. Instead they have decided to build the new X trail in Japan (a Qashqi to all intents and purposes) in Japan instead of, as previously planned, in Sunderland.

Brexit, innit...

"Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn had previously warned at the Paris motor show that a so-called ‘hard Brexit’ could cause the car giant to reconsider its future investment in Sunderland, saying "If I need to make an investment in the next few months and I can’t wait until the end of Brexit, then I have to make a deal with the UK government." “Our objective would be to ensure that we have a continued access to the markets in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without bureaucratic impediments.

No customs union no investment. Whoosh

"Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn had previously warned at the Paris motor show that a so-called ‘hard Brexit’ could cause the car giant to reconsider its future investment in Sunderland, saying "If I need to make an investment in the next few months and I can’t wait until the end of Brexit, then I have to make a deal with the UK government." “Our objective would be to ensure that we have a continued access to the markets in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without bureaucratic impediments.

 

No customs union no investment. Whoosh

Read the quote again, sh!t for brains

The UK car industry has been assured that the deal offered to Nissan - which would eliminate any tariffs imposed on the companies' exports to Europe - will be offered to all car manufacturers, according to business secretary Greg Clark. Talking on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show, Clark said: “It is my job to provide the assurances to Nissan and others that Britain is going to continue to be a great place to invest. I was able to do that and this [Nissan’s continuing investment] was the result that we saw. “One of the assurances I was able to give is that our intention, our negotiating remit when it comes to the discussions with our European partners is to have a constructive and civilised dialogue to look for the common interest here.

Read the quote again, sh!t for brains

No need. I can see that even after 2.5 years the UK Government still have not delivered on the promise. So Nissan are out.

There is a reason Business minister Greg Clarke is Remain. I wonder what that is.

No need. I can see that even after 2.5 years the UK Government still have not delivered on the promise. So Nissan are out.

 

There is a reason Business minister Greg Clarke is Remain. I wonder what that is.

Mate, you're just thick. Clarke gave Nissan the tariff free exports to the EU post Brexit, that they wanted, after Ghosn made his comments at the Paris motor show, plus £80M AND offered the same tariff free access to all the other car manufacturers. So, stop dribbling and start using your brain.

"The x-trail is a Diesel SUV"

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/x-trail/prices-specifications.html#grade-XTRAILT32C-0|overview

 

"Barely sell any in Europe... Outdated, outmoded, unpopular, unwanted car"

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/nissan/nissan-xtrail/

 

Chalk that one up to ERG-quality research.

Thanks for those links. As far as I can see, the first one shows that three out of the four models are diesels, so I don't think that quite warrants the

Perhaps you will kindly furnish the split between the number of sales of the petrol and diesel models. I would expect that most sales are for diesels and it is them that have experienced the recent fall in sales.

As for the second link, it appears that it is a good thing that your graph didn't show the European sales for 2018, as they fell fairly substantially for 9 of the 11 months shown.

Up to November 2018, the sales were 23542 down compared to the year before, so even if this last December matched the sales for December 2017, which is extremely unlikely given that most other months sales were down in 2018, there would still be a drop in sales of around 28%. If the sales for December dropped in line with some other months, the end result could be a drop by a third. Indeed, sales for September, October and November 2018, were lower than in the equivalent months in 2015.

Presumably the decision on the X Trail will be influenced quite strongly by the most recent figures, the rising sales trend up to 2017 having come to an abrupt halt last year.

Im as concerned about the loss of car production but the industry is going to go through a lot of pain in the next 5-10 years anyway as the electric motor will take over.

Qashqi's are really just Ford Focus size, but on stilts. They aren't true SUVs. Nissan arent moving the Qashqi back to Japan. Instead they have decided to build the new X trail in Japan (a Qashqi to all intents and purposes) in Japan instead of, as previously planned, in Sunderland.

They are compact crossover SUVs. Yeah, they were planning to do that ages ago, Brexit has accelerated that decision.

I've been driving an electric Golf for the last six months and take it from me. Electric motors won't take over...

Why not? at the moment they aren't quite there, but go back 10-15 years and people would scoff there would be any on the road at all. Give it 10-15 years, slowly the tech will get better.

Mate, you're just thick. Clarke gave Nissan the tariff free exports to the EU post Brexit, that they wanted, after Ghosn made his comments at the Paris motor show, plus £80M AND offered the same tariff free access to all the other car manufacturers. So, stop dribbling and start using your brain.

Really? When did the Government deliver the promised deal? Last I heard they were still negotiating with 5 weeks to go.