Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Unfortunately you’ve done what some Remainers tried to do in the referendum debate which is confuse free movement with border controls. There are no border controls between Schengen Countries, but there are border controls between Schengen countries and The UK. Some Remainers tried to equate this to having control of our borders, whereas most people define control of our borders as deciding who can and can’t come in.

I just re-read this and you're right. I do try and equate "border controls between Schengen countries and The UK" as "having control of our borders". I have to admit that I'm having trouble understanding in what way I am confused. I'm willing to learn...

All the analysis I’ve heard or read about a Swiss type arrangement claim it’s no go because the EU hate the deal they’ve got. They do not want countries going down that route.

 

I haven't read that but can believe its true. Normally you just agree something with a Government and its done. The Swiss have a system whereby lots of issues have to be put to a referendum where it can get rejected. A deal can be struck but not ratified because voters don't like the 'you must do' parts and only support the 'you get' parts. It can lead to years of messy limbo.

I haven't read that but can believe its true. Normally you just agree something with a Government and its done. The Swiss have a system whereby lots of issues have to be put to a referendum where it can get rejected. A deal can be struck but not ratified because voters don't like the 'you must do' parts and only support the 'you get' parts. It can lead to years of messy limbo.

 

The EU dislikes the Swiss arrangement because it’s horribly complicated -the EU and Switzerland have over 120 bilateral agreements. These are invariably fragmented and piecemeal and often need to be updated with new agreements once market and regulatory conditions change.

 

As if not more important, there is no enforcement mechanism for these agreements. The Swiss have long resisted the rule of foreign judges. This has been a huge matter of concern for the EU, though there are signs that the Swiss are softening their opposition - they have not totally rejected a recent EU proposal for a three-person arbitration panel that would see issues relating to EU law referred to the ECJ.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/17d840b6-209b-11e8-a895-1ba1f72c2c11

The EU dislikes the Swiss arrangement because it’s horribly complicated -the EU and Switzerland have over 120 bilateral agreements. These are invariably fragmented and piecemeal and often need to be updated with new agreements once market and regulatory conditions change.

 

As if not more important, there is no enforcement mechanism for these agreements. The Swiss have long resisted the rule of foreign judges. This has been a huge matter of concern for the EU, though there are signs that the Swiss are softening their opposition - they have not totally rejected a recent EU proposal for a three-person arbitration panel that would see issues relating to EU law referred to the ECJ.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/17d840b6-209b-11e8-a895-1ba1f72c2c11

 

You're better informed about the Swiss than me!

Tory Brexiteer Bernard Jenkin says that we needn't worry about a no-deal Brexit because it'll all be magically alright:

 

"We will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about - a bit like the millennium bug, remember all the experts on the millennium bug?"

 

The reason that Y2K had little impact was that thousands of man-hours and a good deal of cash was spent in '98 and '99 checking, and where necessary, modifying systems so that they would continue to operate.

 

Obviously, we were all scaremongering and should have taken the Brexiteers approach of doing nothing and hoping it all worked OK.

Tory Brexiteer Bernard Jenkin says that we needn't worry about a no-deal Brexit because it'll all be magically alright:

 

"We will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about - a bit like the millennium bug, remember all the experts on the millennium bug?"

 

The reason that Y2K had little impact was that thousands of man-hours and a good deal of cash was spent in '98 and '99 checking, and where necessary, modifying systems so that they would continue to operate.

 

Obviously, we were all scaremongering and should have taken the Brexiteers approach of doing nothing and hoping it all worked OK.

 

remember the utter doom that was about to be unleashed for voting to leave.

never happened!

remember the utter doom that was about to be unleashed for voting to leave.

never happened!

 

Apart from UK growth crashing from top to the bottom. Every 1% reduction in growth costs us around £18bn pa

Apart from UK growth crashing from top to the bottom. Every 1% reduction in growth costs us around £18bn pa

 

At the time of the Brexit vote, we had the highest growth of the G7 countries.

 

We now have the lowest.

remember the utter doom that was about to be unleashed for voting to leave.

never happened!

Do you believe that all the promised benefits from leaving will materialise ? ( I'll allow the £350million per week to slip by under the radar ).

Do you believe that all the promised benefits from leaving will materialise ? ( I'll allow the £350million per week to slip by under the radar ).

 

No. But I admit that ALL lied..and in some cases, Lied a lot.

Apart from UK growth crashing from top to the bottom. Every 1% reduction in growth costs us around £18bn pa

 

And don't forget the massive QE injection to prop the economy up

No. But I admit that ALL lied..and in some cases, Lied a lot.

 

Especially Leave.EU who broke electoral law and lied about its spending and donations and are now facing a criminal investigation.

And don't forget the massive QE injection to prop the economy up

 

Don’t get jihadi john started again. Please...

Especially Leave.EU who broke electoral law and lied about its spending and donations and are now facing a criminal investigation.

 

They all lied, yes.

The £9m leaflet drop was hilarious.

And don't forget the massive QE injection to prop the economy up

I assume you're referring to the massive ECB QE injection to prop up the EU's economy.

UK QE Cost since 2008: £435bn

EU QE Cost since 2008: €2.4tn

UK QE Cost since 2008: £435bn

EU QE Cost since 2008: €2.4tn

The Euro zone population is approx 5 time the UK's, so per capita that's about evens.

EU GDP excluding UK is around $14.6 trillion and UK GDP is c$2.6 trn. So GDP is about 5.5 times higher. Multiply £435bn by 5.5 and you get £2.392 trillion. The EU's QE is only £2.142 trn (at £1 = 1.12 euros) so the UK's level is actually higher.

The Euro zone population is approx 5 time the UK's, so per capita that's about evens.

 

That may be obvious to you , me and most other people but when you have a grasp of facts like Jihadi John it is not so clear.

UK QE Cost since 2008: £435bn

EU QE Cost since 2008: €2.4tn

 

You sort of set yourself up for the replies you got to be fair...

I wouldn't want to be in JJ's lab as he attempted a dosage calculation, that's for sure

You sort of set yourself up for the replies you got to be fair...

 

:lol:

Edit wrong thread

The Euro zone population is approx 5 time the UK's, so per capita that's about evens.

I'm aware of that. The point was, that the poster suggested that the UK QE was somehow related to the Brexit vote. It obviously wasn't. Just for your information, the EU didn't vote to leave the EU.

I'm aware of that. The point was, that the poster suggested that the UK QE was somehow related to the Brexit vote. It obviously wasn't.

Perhaps you could have made that clear - your post, in isolation, seems to be trying to add the level of Euro zone QE expenditure to the list of failed arguments against the EU. Given your record, it is an easy misunderstanding to make.

Perhaps you could have made that clear - your post, in isolation, seems to be trying to add the level of Euro zone QE expenditure to the list of failed arguments against the EU. Given your record, it is an easy misunderstanding to make.

I thought that it was pretty obvious, given the tripe I was responding to and I thought you lot were pretty clever, compared to us knuckle dragging Brexiteers...

I'm more worried about Nicholas Cage movies, than Brexit:

 

I'm aware of that. The point was, that the poster suggested that the UK QE was somehow related to the Brexit vote. It obviously wasn't..

 

Except it really really was.

 

Obviously not the prior QE in response to the financial crisis... the *surprise* QE increase following the Brexit vote.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/04/bank-of-england-unveils-four-pronged-stimulus-package-in-bid-to/

I'm more worried about Nicholas Cage movies, than Brexit.[/img]

 

Why does that not surprise me?

..... I thought you lot were pretty clever, compared to us knuckle dragging Brexiteers...

Probably just an example of arguing with idiots and being dragged down to their level.

Well I'm not going on a foreign holiday for a while and hope the £ recovers. Any poor soul at the moment will feel the pinch. Euro 1.10 and the $1.28 Good for exports but bad for importers and motorists. So food and fuel is going to rush up more.

The pain the nation and its people are going through 'so that we can have our country back' is ridiculous.

It seems to me that there is concerted effort to get us into a position where we have another vote, if so the remain will win hands down IMO

If we do the damage to our economy has already been done and companies will be already leaving.

Except it really really was.

 

Obviously not the prior QE in response to the financial crisis... the *surprise* QE increase following the Brexit vote.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/04/bank-of-england-unveils-four-pronged-stimulus-package-in-bid-to/

 

Totall b0ll0x from Mark Carney who was predicting a recession that never happened, before the vote in June. 3 months before the referendum in the UK, the ECB was doing this:

March 10, 2016

The European Central Bank unleashed a new round of economic stimulus measures Thursday, making a new effort to boost the moribund economic fortunes in the 19-country bloc that uses the euro currency.

The continent's central bank cut all of its key interest rates, increased its monthly asset-buying program and announced new, cheap loans for banks in hopes that they in turn would lend the money to businesses and consumers to boost the region's economy.

The eurozone economy has been virtually stalled for several years, advancing only three-tenths of a percent in the last three months of 2015.

ECB policymakers cut their main refinancing rate from the already-low figure of .05 percent to zero, further stiffened the punitive rate it charges banks that deposit money with it from a negative three-tenths of a percent to minus four-tenths of a percent and said they would ramp up their stimulative purchase of bonds from $60 billion a month to $85 billion.

Draghi is still buying Italian bonds...

 

All down to Brexit, innit...

#triggered

Totall b0ll0x from Mark Carney who was predicting a recession that never happened, before the vote in June. 3 months before the referendum in the UK, the ECB was doing this:

Draghi is still buying Italian bonds...

 

All down to Brexit, innit...

 

The ECB embarked on QE much much later than the BoE - it introduced its first wave of QE only in 2015: “better late than never”, as the Economist put it at the time. In March 2016, the ECB was still playing catch-up. By contrast, with the UK much further along the cycle, the expectation was that there would be no fresh stimulus until Brexit forced the BoE’s hand.

 

JJ, you can’t help but make a tit of yourself, can you pal?

Edited 8 August, 2018 by shurlock

Well I'm not going on a foreign holiday for a while and hope the £ recovers. Any poor soul at the moment will feel the pinch. Euro 1.10 and the $1.28 Good for exports but bad for importers and motorists. So food and fuel is going to rush up more.

The pain the nation and its people are going through 'so that we can have our country back' is ridiculous.

 

 

Get a grip snowflake.

 

 

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Totall b0ll0x from Mark Carney who was predicting a recession that never happened, before the vote in June. 3 months before the referendum in the UK, the ECB was doing this:

Draghi is still buying Italian bonds...

 

All down to Brexit, innit...

The recession is here,the state of the £ is good for exporters ( I assume that is what you do?)I have a percentage of export business, but the majority of business friends i many lines are suffering in the home market.

Get a grip snowflake.

 

 

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Lol, I am a snowflake I agree. Anyway I'm off to the white cliffs of dover so that I can wave my Union Jack at those dastardly French, that will show them.

The recession is here,the state of the £ is good for exporters ( I assume that is what you do?)I have a percentage of export business, but the majority of business friends i many lines are suffering in the home market.

 

Where has John's daily chart showing the £ vs. $ gone? It's mysteriously disappeared.

Lol, I am a snowflake I agree. Anyway I'm off to the white cliffs of dover so that I can wave my Union Jack at those dastardly French, that will show them.

 

Says the bloke who won’t travel abroad because of the exchange rate.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Says the bloke who won’t travel abroad because of the exchange rate.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

..... Edited 8 August, 2018 by OldNick

The recession is here.

Behave, Gramps... a recession isn't here and there is no sign of one. If there was a sign, the BoE wouldn't have raised interest rates, would they?

Behave, Gramps... a recession isn't here and there is no sign of one. If there was a sign, the BoE wouldn't have raised interest rates, would they?

Oh I'm Gramps now lol. What does that make you as I'm 6 years younger than you Old boy. There are various reasons they put up interest rates, not always because the economy is booming. Sometimes to give some support to the £. Lets see what comes forth, you are in the belief that all is fine, I feel we are in recession. Iam in the luxury business and so first to see how the economy is heading, at present the barometer reads stormy

Says the bloke who won’t travel abroad because of the exchange rate.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ive re-read my post and I can see where you got that idea. It was my poor grammar. It should be, Im not going on holiday for a while, and hope the £ recovers by the time I do Edited 8 August, 2018 by OldNick
Not concentrating during English lessons

Where has John's daily chart showing the £ vs. $ gone? It's mysteriously disappeared.

 

There must be a reason he's suddenly keeping shtum about the pound's trading value. Whatever might that be?

 

Still, if the pound has by some weird accident crashed against the dollar, it must be soaring against that failed Euro, right?

There must be a reason he's suddenly keeping shtum about the pound's trading value. Whatever might that be?

 

Still, if the pound has by some weird accident crashed against the dollar, it must be soaring against that failed Euro, right?

There is a small positive in that our exports will be cheaper, and so that will give a lift to some companies. The man in the street will feel the increase again in food prices and fuel. The overseas holiday will be a tad more expensive as well. Families will bear the brunt, sadly.

There must be a reason he's suddenly keeping shtum about the pound's trading value. Whatever might that be?

 

Still, if the pound has by some weird accident crashed against the dollar, it must be soaring against that failed Euro, right?

 

It's not been doing that bad against the euro. If we had Trump instead of May negotiating, it would be doing much better.

 

It's not been doing that bad against the euro. If we had Trump instead of May negotiating, it would be doing much better.

 

The dollar is down 8% compared to a basket of world currencies since Trump was elected. So the pound is tanking against an already weak currency. Go us.

It's not been doing that bad against the euro. If we had Trump instead of May negotiating, it would be doing much better.

 

 

I didn’t realise the referendum happened in July 2017.

It's not been doing that bad against the euro. If we had Trump instead of May negotiating, it would be doing much better.

 

Trump was inaugurated on 20th Jan 2017, when the Euro was at $1.07, it is now at $1.16, a gain of 8%. In the same period the Euro has gained 5% against the £.

Trump was inaugurated on 20th Jan 2017, when the Euro was at $1.07, it is now at $1.16, a gain of 8%. In the same period the Euro has gained 5% against the £.

During that period, Merkel sent Jean-Claude Drunker over to see Trump and beg him not to impose 25% tariffs on German cars. In return he promised that the EU would buy US soybeans, in fact GM soybeans, a variety that cannot legally be cultivated in the EU. What a principled organisation they are. Unsurprisingly, the diminishing prospect of a trade war between the EU and the US boosted the euro. Ban GM crops to protect French farmers and then import them from the US to protect German car companies. More German cars are exported to the UK than anywhere else. Why May feels unable to threaten a 25% import tariff on German cars unless we get a decent trade deal with the EU is beyond me. May has to go and we have to leave this corrupt organisation which, it is obvious to anyone that watches the attitude of the EU, during our trade negotiations, has been set up to benefit the French and Germans.

Of course, there are many quislings on this forum that think that it is fair for the EU to treat the UK as they are. I just happen to think that, after contributing around £500 billion to the failed continental political experiment the EU has become, the UK government may be a little more aggressive in their trade negotiations. As in, "Jog on, Barnier, you get no more from us and we'll take our chances in EFTA. We may then consider granting a decent bilateral free-trade agreement with the EU, so that your German paymasters can continue to sell £26 billion more a year to us than we sold to them."