Brexit - Post Match Reaction

The EU need to get its head out of the sand otherwise we won’t be the last leaving. If they don’t address freedom of movement they’re ****ed.

 

 

 

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Are Lithuania getting much immigration?

The second ranked issue for nearly all countries was terrorism.

The reality is that much of the immigration with which EU citizens are concerned has less to do with FoM and much more to do with issues such as non-EU immigration, the refugee crisis, Islam, multiculturalism and pace of change generally.

Doesn’t suit the jihadi agenda but not a lot does at the moment

The reality is that much of the immigration with which EU citizens are concerned has less to do with FoM and much more to do with issues such as non-EU immigration, the refugee crisis, Islam, multiculturalism and pace of change generally.

 

Doesn’t suit the jihadi agenda but not a lot does at the moment

Sure, in Eastern Europe they are not really concerned with westerners coming in and taking over jobs because they are much cheaper.

Sure, in Eastern Europe they are not really concerned with westerners coming in and taking over jobs because they are much cheaper.

There are two million Ukrainians in Poland doing the jobs Polish workers didn't want to do. Its a political issue in most countries, primarily for no EU reasons.

The EU need to get its head out of the sand otherwise we won’t be the last leaving. If they don’t address freedom of movement they’re ****ed.

 

 

 

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What is superb about that poll.... is that despite the fake news left wing media telling us that Brexit was all immigration and racism, the UK actually has the 2nd lowest score to immigration (not counting Lithuania who are pretty small fry lets be honest). Maybe the UN should kindly trot out some scare stories about racists in france/sweden/german/italy etc.

There are two million Ukrainians in Poland doing the jobs Polish workers didn't want to do. Its a political issue in most countries, primarily for no EU reasons.

I don't know if many Western Europeans blame the EU for the loss of jobs or the reduction of wages for the less educated. They should do so or at least blame their own politicians who agree with the globalization which the EU is supporting. I guess those who lost their jobs because their employer moved to Eastern Europe know who to blame as the Le Pen's of this world will tell them. I know of Polish workers who understand why companies from France etc. move to Poland and they rightfully fear that those same companies move elsewhere as soon as it's cheaper to hire workers. "Redistribution of wealth and income which will bring prosperity in all of Europe" as they say in Brussels, one might wonder who will profit most.

What is superb about that poll.... is that despite the fake news left wing media telling us that Brexit was all immigration and racism, the UK actually has the 2nd lowest score to immigration (not counting Lithuania who are pretty small fry lets be honest). Maybe the UN should kindly trot out some scare stories about racists in france/sweden/german/italy etc.

Its third, you forgot Spain. A close second for Britain was terrorism on 35, which many people would link to immigration. Personally I find the high terrorism score odd given attacks / deaths are pretty low.

I don't know if many Western Europeans blame the EU for the loss of jobs or the reduction of wages for the less educated. They should do so or at least blame their own politicians who agree with the globalization which the EU is supporting.

Many in Brexit voters do blame the EU for loss of jobs - yet the Yougov survey shows unemployment ranks low as a priority. The EU is actually quite protectionist, arguably as far as it can be in globalist world.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/05/11/yougov-data-reveals-what-europeans-think-are-most-/

What is superb about that poll.... is that despite the fake news left wing media telling us that Brexit was all immigration and racism, the UK actually has the 2nd lowest score to immigration (not counting Lithuania who are pretty small fry lets be honest). Maybe the UN should kindly trot out some scare stories about racists in france/sweden/german/italy etc.

Well the evidence does show Brexit was primarily about immigration. The difference pal is that EU citizens may have concerns about immigration (which are legitimate) but they aren't willing to pull up the drawbridge and sh*t the bed for it. That is, at least, if you believe the yougov poll...

Many in Brexit voters do blame the EU for loss of jobs - yet the Yougov survey shows unemployment ranks low as a priority. The EU is actually quite protectionist, arguably as far as it can be in globalist world.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/05/11/yougov-data-reveals-what-europeans-think-are-most-/

“Quite protectionist”, that’s an understatement.

One of the bizarre aspects of the whole EU debate is how the EU has managed to be portrayed as some open, free trading, anti protectionist bloc. It couldn’t be any further from that.

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“Quite protectionist”, that’s an understatement.

 

One of the bizarre aspects of the whole EU debate is how the EU has managed to be portrayed as some open, free trading, anti protectionist bloc. It couldn’t be any further from that.

 

 

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No more protectionist than the US and China, all things considered.

From Ed Conway's column in the Times today -

 

Since the referendum in June 2016, real household disposable income is UP 1.8% on average in the EU, UP 1.3% on average in OECD countries, and DOWN 0.3% in the UK - the worst performance of any developed economy including Greece.

 

Those frogs are starting to boil...

But we haven’t left yet.

When the news is negative for the UK it’s highlighted by remainers, but when the news is positive, they all chorus “but we haven’t left yet”.

Funny that.

Voting to leave the EU was never going to be an instant disaster it is death by a 1000 cuts, slowly and inexorably our economy is weakening, our NHS is declining, our opportunities are disappearing, and our standing in the world is fading. Still ideological leavers cling to the promise of sunlit uplands where the world opens its doors to all our needs, where trade deals are done before breakfast, German car manufacturers dictate EU policy, the USA give us preferential treatment, the Irish Border problem is not really a problem, the bus was not a lie, and are happy to be worse off and where taking back control does not actually include the UK Justice System and Parliament doing their job.

Voting to leave the EU was never going to be an instant disaster it is death by a 1000 cuts, slowly and inexorably our economy is weakening, our NHS is declining, our opportunities are disappearing, and our standing in the world is fading. Still ideological leavers cling to the promise of sunlit uplands where the world opens its doors to all our needs, where trade deals are done before breakfast, German car manufacturers dictate EU policy, the USA give us preferential treatment, the Irish Border problem is not really a problem, the bus was not a lie, and are happy to be worse off and where taking back control does not actually include the UK Justice System and Parliament doing their job.

But the government, prime minister, chancellor and nearly all on the remain side told of imminent doom for voting to leave. None of it has happened and most instances, the reverse has taken place. The ‘exports’ were wrong in large parts

But the government, prime minister, chancellor and nearly all on the remain side told of imminent doom for voting to leave. None of it has happened and most instances, the reverse has taken place. The ‘exports’ were wrong in large parts

It is happening, slowly and inexorably, we have lower growth than Greece, our economy is weaker and weakening, re-read what I wrote. I am not an apologist for Cameron’s folly, there was never going to be a cliff edge but a slow decline, deny it all you like, it is happening.

It is happening, slowly and inexorably, we have lower growth than Greece, our economy is weaker and weakening, re-read what I wrote. I am not an apologist for Cameron’s folly, there was never going to be a cliff edge but a slow decline, deny it all you like, it is happening.

The ‘experts’ shot their load. Would not surprise me that in another referendum, leave would win by a higher margin.

The ‘experts’ shot their load. Would not surprise me that in another referendum, leave would win by a higher margin.

Politicians are not experts. The denigration of "experts" is yet another sad consequence of the referendum. I am sure that you claim some competence in whatever it is you do to earn a crust, but would never deem yourself and expert for fear of your judgement being questioned. I am expert in spotting BS and you’re full of it. If we had another referendum with both sides telling the truth about the benefits leave would be mute, and indications (indications only I admit) is that it would be close but most likely in favor of remaining.

One door closes and another door opens, here:

Turkey is offering to be a trade gateway for Britain into the Middle East, North Africa and the Balkan states, with its economy minister saying that Brexit offers a rare opportunity to build a new economic partnership.

Nihat Zeybekci claimed that construction projects worth billions of dollars were up for grabs in the region and that negotiations to sign a free trade deal directly after Brexit in 2021 were progressing well.

 

He said that he was happy when he heard the Brexit referendum result.

“I fully respect the decision of the British people — if it was going to be no Brexit I cannot say anything — but as minister for the economy, Brexit is going to create opportunities for Turkey and the UK. After December 2020, trade relations between Turkey and UK are going to be much wider and much deeper. Volumes are going to increase.”

 

 

Mr Zeybekci is part of the Turkish delegation in London this week to discuss a future deal. He met Greg Hands, the trade minister in Liam Fox’s department, yesterday and they discussed the potential terms of an agreement that would extend to co-operation in third countries.

 

Turkey is Britain’s 15th largest export market, with the UK selling goods and services worth £5.8 billion. The UK imports goods worth £8.1 billion from Turkey. The UK is Turkey’s second largest export destination after Germany and its sixth largest trade partner overall.

 

Mr Zeybekci claimed that the UK could leapfrog Germany, China, Russia, France and Italy to be Turkey’s main trading partner. “Why not?” he said. “We have the potential. The thing we are preparing with the UK is that when Brexit happens in 2020 a very comprehensive free trade agreement between UK and Turkey must be ready.”

 

His enthusiasm is striking because both Turkey and the UK are members of the European Union customs union, which allows tariff-free trade between the two countries. Turkey’s membership is limited to industrial goods, however. Agriculture, public procurement, services and e-commerce sit outside the agreement.

 

Turkey is unhappy with its EU customs union arrangement and the minister said that he sympathised with Britain’s desire to take more control of its affairs. Ankara is renegotiating the terms of its customs union membership, struck in 1995, because it has no say in any free trade deal the EU strikes. While it must open its markets up to new partners, those partners do not automatically have to reciprocate. South Africa and Mexico have access to Turkey but Turkey has no access in return.

 

“This is not acceptable for an independent country, but that is an agreement signed 21 years ago and we are renegotiating this,” Mr Zeybekci said.

Many in Brexit voters do blame the EU for loss of jobs - yet the Yougov survey shows unemployment ranks low as a priority. The EU is actually quite protectionist, arguably as far as it can be in globalist world.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/05/11/yougov-data-reveals-what-europeans-think-are-most-/

True, the EU is protectionist and they even have a European Globalisation Adjustment Fund to help redundant workers!

Yet it's clear that many production facilities have moved from Western to Eastern Europe just to maximise their profit, leaving the less educated and low-paid behind without a job. Thanks to the Freedom of Movement those unfortunates now have to compete with Eastern Europeans who'll work for much less than the usual pay and still earn many times more than they would in their own country. As a result the avarage hourly wages for the low income jobs are falling so to pay the rent they now have to find two or three jobs, just like the unfortunates in the USA do for decades now.

I don't blame the Eastern Europeans, if I was Bulgarian I would also leave my country in order to earn nine times more and profit from social security and healthcare paid by others. Apparently Brexit voters didn't care about what David Cameron already mentioned about EU migrants?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/cameron-wants-restrictions-put-on-eu-freedom-of-movement/

Politicians are not experts. The denigration of "experts" is yet another sad consequence of the referendum. I am sure that you claim some competence in whatever it is you do to earn a crust, but would never deem yourself and expert for fear of your judgement being questioned. I am expert in spotting BS and you’re full of it. If we had another referendum with both sides telling the truth about the benefits leave would be mute, and indications (indications only I admit) is that it would be close but most likely in favor of remaining.

But both sides won’t tell the truth. Both remain and leave will lie like weasels. Just like Labour and Conservatives do in a GE.

One door closes and another door opens, here:

Been a bit quiet lately JJ. Where have those daily updates on the currency markets gone?

#drinkinmoderation

Meanwhile, the EU is revealed for exactly what it is here:

The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has ruled that the European Union paid billions of dollars in illegal subsidies to Airbus. The US Trade Representative (USTR) said the ruling opens the way for placing tariffs on EU goods. The WTO dismissed an appeal by Airbus saying the European plane maker had failed to fix the harm done to Boeing.

I've long said the EU is run for the benefit of large Franco-German corporations. Let's see how they wriggle out of this one. A bunch of crooks....

Meanwhile, the EU is revealed for exactly what it is here:

 

 

 

I've long said the EU is run for the benefit of large Franco-German corporations. Let's see how they wriggle out of this one. A bunch of crooks....

Just curious - do you suffer from selective blindness or ADHD? The full article - not the two lines you managed to quote before it all got too much for you - reports that (a) the EU has a mirror case against US government support for Boeing and (b) in the EU's view most of the US government's complaints were struck down.

Just curious - do you suffer from selective blindness or ADHD? The full article - not the two lines you managed to quote before it all got too much for you - reports that (a) the EU has a mirror case against US government support for Boeing and (b) in the EU's view most of the US government's complaints were struck down.

Very hard to enter the mind of a jihadist. Perhaps watch a TED talk on it or something, Verbs.

Meanwhile, the EU is revealed for exactly what it is here:

"The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has ruled that the European Union paid billions of dollars in illegal subsidies to Airbus. The US Trade Representative (USTR) said the ruling opens the way for placing tariffs on EU goods. The WTO dismissed an appeal by Airbus saying the European plane maker had failed to fix the harm done to Boeing. "

 

 

I've long said the EU is run for the benefit of large Franco-German corporations. Let's see how they wriggle out of this one. A bunch of crooks....

Of course, there are no UK based jobs possibly affected by this decision against a "Franco-German" corporation, and the UK had no part to play in any procedures or decisions of the EU.

Of course, there are no UK based jobs possibly affected by this decision against a "Franco-German" corporation, and the UK had no part to play in any procedures or decisions of the EU.

Certainly not their 15,000 direct employees in the UK, or 80,000 in the supply chain including rolls royce who supply 40% of the engines or Chobham, GKN etc who supply avionics, landing gear etc.

Certainly not their 15,000 direct employees in the UK, or 80,000 in the supply chain including rolls royce who supply 40% of the engines or Chobham, GKN etc who supply avionics, landing gear etc.

Yeh but do they buy endocrine-disrupting weedkillers?

Certainly not their 15,000 direct employees in the UK, or 80,000 in the supply chain including rolls royce who supply 40% of the engines or Chobham, GKN etc who supply avionics, landing gear etc.

Of course, there are no UK based jobs possibly affected by this decision against a "Franco-German" corporation, and the UK had no part to play in any procedures or decisions of the EU.

Just curious - do you suffer from selective blindness or ADHD? The full article - not the two lines you managed to quote before it all got too much for you - reports that (a) the EU has a mirror case against US government support for Boeing and (b) in the EU's view most of the US government's complaints were struck down.

Yeh but do they buy endocrine-disrupting weedkillers?

I'm gonna tell on you to my lawyers

I'm gonna tell on you to my lawyers

Wait until Saturday night. That is when Hammond normally starts to drink.

As I predicted in this post....:

On a date that Romans historically settled their debts, it seems to be, yet again, a time for political and economic upheaval. This time, it will be the EU, not the Roman empire that will be affected. You see, no amount of cheap credit and an artificially strong currency will hide the systemic problems affecting the Italian economy. Italy could be heading into deep political crisis after voters go to the polls on March 4. Italy’s la dolce vita is at stake. The supposed ‘good life’ which the Italian economy has enjoyed since the European Central Bank slashed rates down to zero in 2012 and flooded the market with cheap credit, could come to an untimely end. Italian investors could be heading into a bloodbath, leaving the euro facing another existential crisis. Of course, the country is no stranger to political instability. It has changed governments 65 times since the second world war.

 

 

The betting is that there will be a lurch to the right, particularly amongst younger voters, who have the opposite view to our pampered and spoilt youth, with regard to the benefits of belonging to the EU. At least one-third of young Italians under the age of 25 are out of work and unsurprisingly they have a deep distrust of their government and establishment parties. Right now, the populist Five Star Movement has a slight lead in the polls and if they set up a coalition with the Northern League, it could spell curtains for the euro. Their leader Matteo Salvini has even gone so far as to call the euro a ‘German currency’ which has damaged Italy’s economy, arguing the case to abandon the euro altogether. Forgetting the elections in Italy in March, who seriously thinks that the Euro will survive for long, when the debts of southern Europe become unsustainable? Alan Greenspan, the former Chair of the US Federal Reserve, back in February didn't. He believes the Euro will collapse and the ECB Mario Draghi should come clean on the state of the Eurozone economy. "Northern Europe has, in effect, been funding the deficits of the South; that cannot continue indefinitely. The Eurozone is not working,” says Greenspan. "Brexit is not the end of the set of problems, which I always thought were going to start with the euro because the euro is a very serious problem."

 

 

Still, maybe Italy is too big to fail, like Deutsche Bank. Luckily the UK won't be involved in the bailouts, that must certainly be coming. If and when the euro fails, what is the value in a free-trade agreement with the EU?

 

 

Always nice to be in the first lifeboat...

....today this will happen:

Italy’s populist parties have agreed a policy plan for a coalition government, including promises to renegotiate EU treaties and ramp up the country’s deficit to pay for vast additional spending and tax cuts. The Five Star Movement and the anti-migrant League released the 58-page plan this morning ahead of meetings to get it signed off by Italy’s president and a tough final decision on who they want as prime minister. The plan puts Italy on the brink of forming its first populist government, more than two months after elections produced a hung parliament, and raises the prospect of clashes with EU officials still reeling from Brexit.

Ignore the misinformed loud mouths on this thread and stay tuned. I can't see Germany financing Italy much longer.

As I predicted in this post....:

 

 

 

....today this will happen:

 

 

 

Ignore the misinformed loud mouths on this thread and stay tuned. I can't see Germany financing Italy much longer.

As I predicted in this post....:

 

 

 

....today this will happen:

 

 

 

Ignore the misinformed loud mouths on this thread and stay tuned. I can't see Germany financing Italy much longer.

How many years now is it that you've been predicting the collapse of the Euro/Greece/the EU/Deutsche Bank/climate change science/....etc.,ad nauseum?

And yet none of it has ever happened. Ever.

You're like an anti-Nostradamus - your predictions are 100% reliably opposite to the outcome.

How many years now is it that you've been predicting the collapse of the Euro/Greece/the EU/Deutsche Bank/climate change science/....etc.,ad nauseum?

 

And yet none of it has ever happened. Ever.

 

You're like an anti-Nostradamus - your predictions are 100% reliably opposite to the outcome.

JJ makes Dalek look prophetic.

JJ makes Dalek look prophetic.

Would be a good result for Britain to finish 17th. Currently we're bottom of the growth table

How many years now is it that you've been predicting the collapse of the Euro/Greece/the EU/Deutsche Bank/climate change science/....etc.,ad nauseum?

 

And yet none of it has ever happened. Ever.

 

You're like an anti-Nostradamus - your predictions are 100% reliably opposite to the outcome.

He's like Wes. Finds it impossible to separate out what he wants to happen from what will actually happen

If that Italian populist coalition hate the EU so much and be the architect of its destruction, why on earth are they bothering to "renegotiate treaties" like what soppy old eurocrats Nick Clegg and Ken Clarke would do? Nothing about a ref to leave or even just to unilaterally pull out.

Fu cking olive oil swigging tiramisu munching bottle-jobs.

Being that the average life span of an Italian government is about a fortnight I wouldn't be losing sleep if I was Junker.

But, fair play to Five Star. Come a long way since Rain or Shine.

 

You're like an anti-Nostradamus - your predictions are 100% reliably opposite to the outcome.

To be fair, he said that 'leave' would win

Do Trump's trade tarrifs show the way that our post-Brexit deals are likely to end up ? IMO, they show how inflexible the US stance is likely to be, with everything set out strictly on their terms.

How many years now is it that you've been predicting the collapse of the Euro/Greece/the EU/Deutsche Bank/climate change science/....etc.,ad nauseum?

 

And yet none of it has ever happened. Ever.

 

You're like an anti-Nostradamus - your predictions are 100% reliably opposite to the outcome.

Talk about making his point for him. Climate change used to be called man made global warming.

Do Trump's trade tarrifs show the way that our post-Brexit deals are likely to end up ? IMO, they show how inflexible the US stance is likely to be, with everything set out strictly on their terms.

Has anyone in this thread read "Adults In The Room"? Not only is it aptly named for this forum, but it also shines a very unforgiving light on the EU, it's "democracy", and the behaviour of the french and German banks and finance ministries.

What is happening in Italy has all the Hallmarks of another Bailoutistan sadly.

I am curious to see if the Italians roll over, or whether they succeed in appointing the government they want, or whether the the EU tries to steamroll the 4th largest EU economy.

Interesting times ahead, and very glad we are leaving the EU in it's current guise at least.

Talk about making his point for him. Climate change used to be called man made global warming.

It still is.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2671/long-term-warming-trend-continued-in-2017-nasa-noaa/

I have no idea what point, if any, you're making.

Has anyone in this thread read "Adults In The Room"? Not only is it aptly named for this forum, but it also shines a very unforgiving light on the EU, it's "democracy", and the behaviour of the french and German banks and finance ministries.

 

What is happening in Italy has all the Hallmarks of another Bailoutistan sadly.

 

I am curious to see if the Italians roll over, or whether they succeed in appointing the government they want, or whether the the EU tries to steamroll the 4th largest EU economy.

 

Interesting times ahead, and very glad we are leaving the EU in it's current guise at least.

You must be learning your bad timing from Jihadi John. The political crisis in Italy has been resolved with the swearing in of a new government. You can move on to Spain of you like but that's also going to end without the collapse of the Eurozone, Schengen, or any of the other bits of the EU that cause the jihadists to roll their eyes into the backs of their heads.

You must be learning your bad timing from Jihadi John. The political crisis in Italy has been resolved with the swearing in of a new government. You can move on to Spain of you like but that's also going to end without the collapse of the Eurozone, Schengen, or any of the other bits of the EU that cause the jihadists to roll their eyes into the backs of their heads.

Where’s JJ with his latest updates on sterling?

It's how the EU behave with the rest of the world currently. EU protectionism at all cost.

No more, no less than any other country and almost certainly less than the big prizes (i.e. China) jihadists like yourself are fantasising over. Why don’t you mention the EU’s tariffs against African processed coffeee or some other jihadi shibboleth and make a further fool of yourself.

jihadi shibboleth

What or who the heck is this?

A debate is a debate and should not be belittled to name calling.

jihadi shibboleth

 

What or who the heck is this?

 

 

A debate is a debate and should not be belittled to name calling.

Shibboleth is a perfectly good word, not an insult at all.

Unless you’re an Ephraimite and you can’t pronounce it properly.

Judges 12:4-6

Shibboleth is a perfectly good word, not an insult at all.

 

Unless you’re an Ephraimite and you can’t pronounce it properly.

 

Judges 12:4-6

'Flat out lie' would be a better way of putting it. Forty-seven of the world's poorest countries, including thirty-three in sub-Saharan Africa, have tariff-free entry into the EU for everything except guns. Yet Brexit Jihadists keep up their volume of noise on the idea that somehow the EU is a vast conspiracy against poorer countries.

As if the Jihadists could give a flying **** about poorer countries.

'Jihadists' is also a perfectly descriptive, non-judgmental description of members of an economic death cult. While there are Brexiteers who argue rationally for a future outside the EU, the death cult - who are easy to recognise with their 'just get on with it' slogans - seek to destroy a modern, complex economy that they simply don't understand in order to return to a mythical, distinctively white, pre-modern world that they believe existed before 1973. Or, more accurately, (a white-tinted view of) the 1950s.

They can quite fairly be described as members of BRISIS. I can't see how anyone could possibly object.