Brexit - Post Match Reaction

Everyone has their own reasons for voting either way. Most people I know voted remain but of the Brexiteers; one is a typical old Tory - a wealthy company director, very patriotic - thinks Britain with thrive outside. The other has a disabled son and is fed up with queue behind Polish people at the doctors in Shirley. The other is a self employed chippy/builder annoyed with being under-cut by foreign labour. I wouldn’t say any of them are racist.

 

Of course a large chunk of the Brexit vote was probably old people not wanting as many foreigners around - wanting to be around people who speak your language is not racist though. I guess a lot of the older generation are lonely and just don’t like change - if that is their reason for voting leave then that’s up to them.

If they don't like change I presume they'd want to stay considering we've been in for 40 odd years...

This is spot on, Jeffrey. Brexit has never been about getting rid of the EU. It's been about getting rid of immigrants. And to do that, an overwhelmingly old, white, male constituency has said it is quite prepared to make other people poorer. (So long as it's just other people, mind.)

 

Their fantasies on the general theme of Unicorn++++++++++ are merely cover, as they plainly known nothing about nor show any interest in actual trade. Witness the stale pale Brexit loons on here.

You two just typify the arrogant and ignorant remoaner position. Brexiteers voted to leave for all sorts of reasons and it has been the failure of the Remain campaign to understand those reasons and to address them in a civilised manner that led to their defeat. And here you are two and a half years later and you still arrogantly dismiss the Leave position as being represented by the old, racist and thick. It strikes me that if you fail to learn the reasons for your lot's defeat, then it is you who are the thickos.

As we get closer by the day to leaving via a clean WTO Brexit, the Remoaner media get more and more shrill in their hysteria about what a disaster we face, and the more bizarre the claims become, the more they are likely to be ignored as just project fear on steroids.

I just can't wait for May's so called deal to be rejected. She has backed herself into such a corner by insisting that her deal is the only one on the table and that leaving without a deal would be a calamity, that she would be humiliated if she was forced then into accepting any alternative. She would have to resign, and good riddance. She parroted her mantra that no deal was better than a bad deal, and then proceeded to come up with the worst possible deal, despised by both sides. The tide is turning fast to the position that a WTO deal would be far better than her deal and finally some preparations are being made for that scenario. Over in the EU, as the deadline day grows ever closer, we will begin to see some cracks appearing in their intransigent stance.

If they don't like change I presume they'd want to stay considering we've been in for 40 odd years...

If they are unhappy with the changes brought about by mass immigration of course they would vote to leave. The more people like you ignore their concerns, **** their pants and cry racist the more they will feel they are in the right for making a bit of a protest.

You two just typify the arrogant and ignorant remoaner position. Brexiteers voted to leave for all sorts of reasons and it has been the failure of the Remain campaign to understand those reasons and to address them in a civilised manner that led to their defeat. And here you are two and a half years later and you still arrogantly dismiss the Leave position as being represented by the old, racist and thick. It strikes me that if you fail to learn the reasons for your lot's defeat, then it is you who are the thickos.

 

As we get closer by the day to leaving via a clean WTO Brexit, the Remoaner media get more and more shrill in their hysteria about what a disaster we face, and the more bizarre the claims become, the more they are likely to be ignored as just project fear on steroids.

 

I just can't wait for May's so called deal to be rejected. She has backed herself into such a corner by insisting that her deal is the only one on the table and that leaving without a deal would be a calamity, that she would be humiliated if she was forced then into accepting any alternative. She would have to resign, and good riddance. She parroted her mantra that no deal was better than a bad deal, and then proceeded to come up with the worst possible deal, despised by both sides. The tide is turning fast to the position that a WTO deal would be far better than her deal and finally some preparations are being made for that scenario. Over in the EU, as the deadline day grows ever closer, we will begin to see some cracks appearing in their intransigent stance.

Yet you represent exactly the stale pale constituency I'm talking about. And, by the way, to claim you're not racist, while doubling down on anti-semitic tropes and labelling 'the Arabs' as dislikable, is a stretch.

Try this thought experiment. Imagine a re-run referendum split into two. In the first one, only white males over the age of 65 may vote. In the second one, only the under-65s and all women may vote.

What do you think the respective results would be?

No, it's clear to me, at least, that specifically your objection is in order the banish immigrants. Your warblings about trade show no understanding or inclination to understand what you're talking about. Its a cover for a peevish, age-related 'dislike' of immigrants and foreigners generally.

Without an agreement the EU will have to impose strict border controls, the Single Market necessitates this. Without it, for instance, what is to stop somebody importing goods into NI from elsewhere under WTO tariffs that are lower than those of the EU, and then simply shipping these goods across a 'soft' border into Eire. One of the main criticisms of the 'smart' customs solutions is that they cannot "see inside sealed trucks".

About 500k people have died since the vote 2 years ago apparently. Of which the majority would be over 70. That would make quite a difference to a new vote as I would suggest that most of those would have voted out. 2 years further down the line and the gap will get bigger. We should perhaps have a vote in 10 years time and then there might be a massive majority in favour of remain. Of course in that time the EU might have imploded anyway as it seems most except the Germans are unhappy with their lot

This is spot on, Jeffrey. Brexit has never been about getting rid of the EU. It's been about getting rid of immigrants. And to do that, an overwhelmingly old, white, male constituency has said it is quite prepared to make other people poorer. (So long as it's just other people, mind.)

 

Their fantasies on the general theme of Unicorn++++++++++ are merely cover, as they plainly known nothing about nor show any interest in actual trade. Witness the stale pale Brexit loons on here.

The oddest thing is I'm a Conservative traditionally - so I should dislike those that are different, and enjoy watching the poor get poorer...people change I guess, and this vote has shown me the people that I don't want to have anything in common with.

I’m similar. I used to be very right wing as a teenager and have gradually moved left as i realised just how complicated many issues are and how simplistic the views of many Tories are in response. The irony is that all the evidence shows that wealth is attracted to countries where there are low levels of poverty and low crime. The most unequal societies are normally the most dysfunctional

Yet you represent exactly the stale pale constituency I'm talking about. And, by the way, to claim you're not racist, while doubling down on anti-semitic tropes and labelling 'the Arabs' as dislikable, is a stretch.

 

Try this thought experiment. Imagine a re-run referendum split into two. In the first one, only white males over the age of 65 may vote. In the second one, only the under-65s and all women may vote.

 

What do you think the respective results would be?

 

No, it's clear to me, at least, that specifically your objection is in order the banish immigrants. Your warblings about trade show no understanding or inclination to understand what you're talking about. Its a cover for a peevish, age-related 'dislike' of immigrants and foreigners generally.

Think what you like. It doesn't bother me. I have stated on several occasions that I was far more motivated by sovereignty issues than by trade. Also I am not anti-immigrant, but anti uncontrolled immigration, which of course is not a racist position. No matter how many times I say this, your cranium is impenetrable, so why would I bother what you think anyway? You're just a blinkered and obdurate remoaner, demonstrated by your ludicrous attempt to justify the reason why the Remain vote lost by assumptions of what the result might have been had the demographics of the vote been altered to favour your position. That isn't how democracy works, sonny. It is one person one vote above the age of 18 without an upper limit. Sorry.

Pat Condell has you down to a tee. It is almost as if he knew you personally.

The oddest thing is I'm a Conservative traditionally - so I should dislike those that are different, and enjoy watching the poor get poorer...people change I guess, and this vote has shown me the people that I don't want to have anything in common with.

What a load of cobblers. What it shows is that you are an ignorant ****.

Ooh the irony

What a load of cobblers. What it shows is that you are an ignorant ****.

Sorry, explain what is cobblers about that?

I’m similar. I used to be very right wing as a teenager and have gradually moved left as i realised just how complicated many issues are and how simplistic the views of many Tories are in response. The irony is that all the evidence shows that wealth is attracted to countries where there are low levels of poverty and low crime. The most unequal societies are normally the most dysfunctional

My other half has really noticed how my stance has changed, predominantly since the vote, and that I have certainly moved left - although the generally held view is that you should become more right wing as you get older.

For me, I think having children has also weakened my stance, and the thought of children in poverty, and moreso post Brexit is something I can't abide by. Those Brexiteers who continue to argue that we should leave at any economic cost, are those who should have blood on their hands post Brexit.

Think what you like. It doesn't bother me. I have stated on several occasions that I was far more motivated by sovereignty issues than by trade. Also I am not anti-immigrant, but anti uncontrolled immigration, which of course is not a racist position. No matter how many times I say this, your cranium is impenetrable, so why would I bother what you think anyway? You're just a blinkered and obdurate remoaner, demonstrated by your ludicrous attempt to justify the reason why the Remain vote lost by assumptions of what the result might have been had the demographics of the vote been altered to favour your position. That isn't how democracy works, sonny. It is one person one vote above the age of 18 without an upper limit. Sorry.

 

Pat Condell has you down to a tee. It is almost as if he knew you personally.

I think his racist accusations are against the fact that you don't like Arab's, and there is nothing more quintessentially racist than saying you don't like a race of people.

Sorry, explain what is cobblers about that?

 

Who is that?

You've demonstrated throughout the thread how intolerant you are of others with differing views from your own so it's a bit rich to claim how empathetic you are.

Where have I even started to talk about empathy here (which is what Les replied to)?

"The oddest thing is I'm a Conservative traditionally - so I should dislike those that are different, and enjoy watching the poor get poorer...people change I guess, and this vote has shown me the people that I don't want to have anything in common with."

Where have I even started to talk about empathy here (which is what Les replied to)?

 

"The oddest thing is I'm a Conservative traditionally - so I should dislike those that are different, and enjoy watching the poor get poorer...people change I guess, and this vote has shown me the people that I don't want to have anything in common with."

But you do dislike those who are different from you. Clearly.

But you said empathy, so where have I mentioned that in that post? Not quite sure what's classed as different to you, apart from the fact they voted different to me and have some rather unpalatable views on foreigners.

However, I'll be charitable to you and I'll change the bit you quoted to be '...those that have a foreign accent or different colour of skin...'.

Either way, I'm sure Les doesn't need you ****ing his point up before he's even had the chance to reply.

Les crashing out again. Evel Knievel eat your heart out.

You've demonstrated throughout the thread how intolerant you are of others with differing views from your own so it's a bit rich to claim how empathetic you are.

Exactly. Which is why I didn't even bother to respond to Jeff at all. He just doesn't recognise the irony of his selective dislikes compared to those of others.

Exactly. Which is why I didn't even bother to respond to Jeff at all. He just doesn't recognise the irony of his selective dislikes compared to those of others.

Tell me what my selective dislikes are. I think you'll find they all have one thing in common (and unlike you and your type, it's not race).

Les crashing out again. Evel Knievel eat your heart out.

It's like watching a car crash isn't it? Just can't look away...

I think his racist accusations are against the fact that you don't like Arab's, and there is nothing more quintessentially racist than saying you don't like a race of people.

But is it as discriminatory as saying the votes of people above a certain age shouldn't be considered?

I'd say they are the same considering there should be no discrimination on the basis of age, sex, race or religion....

But is it as discriminatory as saying the votes of people above a certain age shouldn't be considered?

 

I'd say they are the same considering there should be no discrimination on the basis of age, sex, race or religion....

I don't know, I've never said that.

One is racist, one is ageist. Saying you don't like someone for their colour or creed is different to saying that people over a certain age shouldn't have as much say about our future. Both are discrimination, but I know which one I see as far, far worse.

But is it as discriminatory as saying the votes of people above a certain age shouldn't be considered?

 

I'd say they are the same considering there should be no discrimination on the basis of age, sex, race or religion....

Brexit is uniquely age related though, Being in or out of the EU impacts the young more than the old.

A lot of brexiteers simply don’t realise the extent to which the world has moved on. The whole world is coalescing into blocs because otherwise you get pummelled in unequal negotiations by the US or China. The only organisation who can negotiate for Britain as an equal partner is the EU.

My mum still hates Germans because they bombed her school. I disagree with her but understand her view. My kids just think she is absolutely bizarre and ranting on about something which to them is just ancient history, no different to napoleon or the Norman invasion.

Tell me what my selective dislikes are. I think you'll find they all have one thing in common (and unlike you and your type, it's not race).

I've already told you, it isn't worth wasting my time with you over this.

Brexit is uniquely age related though, Being in or out of the EU impacts the young more than the old.

 

A lot of brexiteers simply don’t realise the extent to which the world has moved on. The whole world is coalescing into blocs because otherwise you get pummelled in unequal negotiations by the US or China. The only organisation who can negotiate for Britain as an equal partner is the EU.

 

My mum still hates Germans because they bombed her school. I disagree with her but understand her view. My kids just think she is absolutely bizarre and ranting on about something which to them is just ancient history, no different to napoleon or the Norman invasion.

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world. People my age have had to endure over 40 years of the increasingly failing EU.

There you go again, you remoaners; patronisingly labelling a lot of Brexiteers as not understanding how much the World has moved on, and yet it is they who wish to expand their horizons beyond the more parochial bloc on our doorstep.

The EU doesn't pay much attention to us in their trade negotiations with other blocs/countries. In the EU, we are just one country among 28 and the main considerations would have been what was best for France and Germany before what was good for us.

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world.

And you can guarantee this how, considering we are about to cold shoulder the market for nearly half our exports ?

And you can guarantee this how, considering we are about to cold shoulder the market for nearly half our exports ?

74%! - thats the proportion of our exports that go either to the EU or to the 35 entities the EU has trade agreements with and we benefit from

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world. People my age have had to endure over 40 years of the increasingly failing EU.

 

There you go again, you remoaners; patronisingly labelling a lot of Brexiteers as not understanding how much the World has moved on, and yet it is they who wish to expand their horizons beyond the more parochial bloc on our doorstep.

74% of Britain's exports either go to the EU or receive preferential access via the 35 trade deals the EU holds. There are another 26 deals in the pipeline. Thats more than anyone else in the world. The UK will start from zero. How much better will the UK do and how long will it take? What will happen to trade in the meantime?

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world. People my age have had to endure over 40 years of the increasingly failing EU.

 

There you go again, you remoaners; patronisingly labelling a lot of Brexiteers as not understanding how much the World has moved on, and yet it is they who wish to expand their horizons beyond the more parochial bloc on our doorstep.

 

The EU doesn't pay much attention to us in their trade negotiations with other blocs/countries. In the EU, we are just one country among 28 and the main considerations would have been what was best for France and Germany before what was good for us.

This is sub-schoolboy stuff.

Les you need to be saved from yourself. Us remoaners only want to help you pal.

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world. People my age have had to endure over 40 years of the increasingly failing EU.

 

There you go again, you remoaners; patronisingly labelling a lot of Brexiteers as not understanding how much the World has moved on, and yet it is they who wish to expand their horizons beyond the more parochial bloc on our doorstep.

 

The EU doesn't pay much attention to us in their trade negotiations with other blocs/countries. In the EU, we are just one country among 28 and the main considerations would have been what was best for France and Germany before what was good for us.

Amazing post this. The second paragraph, a ***** about Remainers thinking Brexiteers are thick, which follows a paragraph that proves that Brexiteers are thick.

Bravo Les - you make yourself look stupider than any of us ever could.

 

This is sub-schoolboy stuff.

 

Les you need to be saved from yourself. Us remoaners only want to help you pal.

Somebody described Wes as "raging against the dying of the light". Its pretty apt

The EU doesn't pay much attention to us in their trade negotiations with other blocs/countries. In the EU, we are just one country among 28 and the main considerations would have been what was best for France and Germany before what was good for us.

Like what? Give us an example.

Brexit is uniquely age related though, Being in or out of the EU impacts the young more than the old.

 

A lot of brexiteers simply don’t realise the extent to which the world has moved on. The whole world is coalescing into blocs because otherwise you get pummelled in unequal negotiations by the US or China. The only organisation who can negotiate for Britain as an equal partner is the EU.

 

Which other trading blocs have a single currency, flag, anthem, army and are moving towards “ever closer union”. What you arrogant remoaners don’t understand is most people who voted Brexit aren’t against a trading bloc like NAFTA or APEC, they’re against The EU and the unstoppable movement towards a federal Europe.

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Somebody described Wes as "raging against the dying of the light". Its pretty apt

I just wonder how bad Les's life must be/have been for him to be so ridiculously blinkered to the country he's lived in, and the benefits that he, his family and friends, and his country have benefitted from.

Which other trading blocs have a single currency, flag, anthem, army and are moving towards “ever closer union”. What you arrogant remoaners don’t understand is most people who voted Brexit aren’t against a trading bloc like NAFTA or APEC, they’re against The EU and the unstoppable movement towards a federal Europe.

 

 

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As a trading bloc they don't have a single currency. We are in that trading bloc, and our currency is different.

Which other trading blocs have a single currency, flag, anthem, army and are moving towards “ever closer union”. What you arrogant remoaners don’t understand is most people who voted Brexit aren’t against a trading bloc like NAFTA or APEC, they’re against The EU and the unstoppable movement towards a federal Europe.

A majority of the electorate don't want to leave if it involves significant economic pain. I don't want Federalism either, nor do most of the non Schengen and non euro countries. Its not going to happen here. That is the real project fear.

Somebody described Wes as "raging against the dying of the light". Its pretty apt

Yep very apt.

This is the same Les who glowingly cited a brexitcentral article - it’s central claim was that UK PLC exports to the rest of the world had boomed since the referendum. In fact the official data actually showed that exports to the EU had grown faster over the same period.

You might think that Les would have the intelligence and humility to revise his views in light of conflicting evidence but no instead he runs away, refuses to engage and later reappears only to have doubled down on his priors. The very definition of a swivel-eyed ideologue.

A majority of the electorate don't want to leave if it involves significant economic pain.

Did the referendum campaign pass you by?

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As a trading bloc they don't have a single currency. We are in that trading bloc, and our currency is different.

Do Trading blocs have freedom of movement, a flag, a parliament, a president, an anthem, an army?

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Do Trading blocs have freedom of movement, a flag, a parliament, a president, an anthem, an army?

 

 

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Did the referendum campaign pass you by?

Pssst. Its 2.5 years later. Things have changed. Sorry about that.

Do Trading blocs have freedom of movement, a flag, a parliament, a president, an anthem, an army?

What colour are the uniforms of the EU army ? Who is it's commander-in-chief ?

I just wonder how bad Les's life must be/have been for him to be so ridiculously blinkered to the country he's lived in, and the benefits that he, his family and friends, and his country have benefitted from.

You know nothing about me, my life and my family. I have had a long time experience of how our lives were before we joined and a long time after, so I suspect that I am probably better placed to make a judgement of the difference than you. I am also very well traveled around the World, so I also have that perspective too.

Which other trading blocs have a single currency, flag, anthem, army and are moving towards “ever closer union”. What you arrogant remoaners don’t understand is most people who voted Brexit aren’t against a trading bloc like NAFTA or APEC, they’re against The EU and the unstoppable movement towards a federal Europe.

We are approx 3000 miles from NAFTA, probably 13,000 miles from APEC, and 22 miles from the EU. Which bloc is likely to serve our trade interests best ?

Pssst. Its 2.5 years later. Things have changed. Sorry about that.

Two and a half years later and you're still *****ing about how unfair it is that the thickos voted to leave your beloved EU. Boo Hoo.

What colour are the uniforms of the EU army ? Who is it's commander-in-chief ?

When it’s up and running I’ll let you know. Probably not the best topic for you to try and dismiss as BS.

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We are approx 3000 miles from NAFTA, probably 13,000 miles from APEC, and 22 miles from the EU. Which bloc is likely to serve our trade interests best ?

The EEC

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