Safe standing

Today's the day the PL clubs get together and discuss this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/16/safe-seating-return-premier-league-meeting

The Guardian lists each club's stance on the subject, Saints put as 'unclear' (that could be about who'll be running the club!)

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/15364858.Premier_League_writes_to_Saints_over_standing_sections_at_St_Mary_s/?ref=rss

Some more news on safe standing again today, looks like genuine progress

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Needs to happen to improve the almost dead atmosphere of the Premier League.

Won't happen while May is PM, unless she changes her mind, oh wait...

Needs to happen to improved the almost dead atmosphere of the Premier League.

English football in general, but I agree, the Premier League is shocking.

Long overdue, absolutely ridiculous why it hasn't happened yet and as it stands (no pun intended) an accident waiting to happen with persistent standing in unsuitable seating areas, that they'll never stop.

How many countless thousands of games took place without problems? How many games took place where the stewardship was shambolic leading to multiple casualties?

And you have to ask why all seaters were brought in. HIllsborough gave a reason for it, but it was more to do with hooliganism inside the stadium and the government's desire to stamp that out, and to that end it has been pretty successful. The whole of football should not be held hostage by the sensibilities of Liverpool. Maybe that is OTT, but I believe that they are the only club to not want to see it introduced, This is in no way meant to make light of their pain endured over the past 27 years but if they don't want to have safe standing at Anfield, then they don't have to have it.

But, as things are, we have "unsafe" standing - even on the Kop. Looking at SMS, and most other grounds, do any away supporters ever sit? So if there is tacit acceptance of standing (mainly due to the inability to get thousands to sit down), why fight it? It should also be pointed out that fencing is no longer in place at grounds, so that crush which lead to so many deaths should be lessened.

1/4 of SMS stands already so I don't see what extra benefit to atmosphere safe standing would bring. The seats are just as wide, they just fold away better to give a bit more room to stand. Safe standing is a far cry from the packed terraces of the middle-ages.

Think you are very wrong and smug.

There are a lot of kids out there who can't afford seats. Safe standing areas sensibly priced would help bring football back to the masses.

Not saying you should be forced from your comfy seat just a choice would be nice.

I don't think safe standing will reduce prices by any significant amount. Clubs will just sell the same space and claim the infrastructure costs of putting the rails in necessitate keeping prices high. If already having empty seats and not needing the income from the match day attendees don't force them to change, this won't.

It is odd the top two tiers had terraces ruled out, but for example Exeter in League 2 were still allowed this...

 

I'm not sure why it's "odd", when you can swing a cat on most lower league terraces. Exeter for example, average attendance since 1996 ranges from 3,014 to 5,832 and their capacity is 8,500.

The Cliff Bastin Stand (aka "Big Bank") pictured has a capacity of 3971 - apart from the fact you could easily get 5000 in there "old school", meaning there's space to begin with, their entire average attendance for 14 of the past 21 years would fit in that stand, without anyone needing to go in the other 3 sides of the ground.

The reason the standing regulations don't apply to the lower leagues is because there's little chance of the overcrowding that caused Hillsborough happening in grounds which are nowhere near full most of the time. It is in no way "odd".

This is as full as it gets and there's still plenty of space visible:

1/4 of SMS stands already so I don't see what extra benefit to atmosphere safe standing would bring. The seats are just as wide, they just fold away better to give a bit more room to stand. Safe standing is a far cry from the packed terraces of the middle-ages.

It would save my shins for a start

Stop people falling over the town in front after goals etc

Eradicate the arguments of tourists/ people with little clue of SMS going to sit in an area that stands (happens a LOT at the back of block 2 with upset day trippers)

Can fit more people into a smaller space (your comment on seat width is irrelevant as more can be accommodated in standing matches)

I honestly can't think of a single reason why it wouldn't be implemented? Even the scousers (Spirit of Shankley group anyway) are behind it. It literally changes nothing for fans that want to sit, but means fans that want to stand can do so surrounded 100% by like minded people that will help the atmosphere in an environment that is safer than it is at the moment. Will reduce stewarding costs/ allow stewards to do a better job as they don't have to do the whole "sit down" pantomime for 90 minutes. More people can fit in a smaller area so our capacity goes up and reduce prices/ encourages 18-25 year olds to go to games in a group and make some noise (in theory but I don't trust any greedy **** Premier League Club, certainly not ours, to implement this).

If this comes in, with lower prices as well as a decent video referral system I might just moan a little less about the current state of football ;-)

How many countless thousands of games took place without problems? How many games took place where the stewardship was shambolic leading to multiple casualties?

 

And you have to ask why all seaters were brought in. HIllsborough gave a reason for it, but it was more to do with hooliganism inside the stadium and the government's desire to stamp that out, and to that end it has been pretty successful. The whole of football should not be held hostage by the sensibilities of Liverpool. Maybe that is OTT, but I believe that they are the only club to not want to see it introduced, This is in no way meant to make light of their pain endured over the past 27 years but if they don't want to have safe standing at Anfield, then they don't have to have it.

 

But, as things are, we have "unsafe" standing - even on the Kop. Looking at SMS, and most other grounds, do any away supporters ever sit? So if there is tacit acceptance of standing (mainly due to the inability to get thousands to sit down), why fight it? It should also be pointed out that fencing is no longer in place at grounds, so that crush which lead to so many deaths should be lessened.

The FSF recently posted results of a survey about safe standing from the Spirit of Shankly Supporters group which came back overwhelmingly in favour of safe standing. Now the Justice thing has happened and the full inquiry stressed where the fault was (not standing per se) and with time passing, most resistance has gone away.

I think some people would be genuinely surprised by the appetite there is for this, i personally reckon you could kill two birds with one stone here. Make the entire Northam safe standing and move the away fans to the Itchen corner (given the substantial building work i don't see why you shouldn't do both at once).

And even with that number i think it'd be the first place sold out every single game.

1/4 of SMS stands already so I don't see what extra benefit to atmosphere safe standing would bring. The seats are just as wide, they just fold away better to give a bit more room to stand. Safe standing is a far cry from the packed terraces of the middle-ages.

As I understand it, safe standing increases capacity in that area, so they'll be more people.

And when it comes to things like wanting to be with a group of mates (which does help atmosphere), you can easily do so.

At the moment I'm a STH in the Northam. If one of my mates wants to get a ticket and be near us, they have to buy a ticket 10-15 rows away.

Would love to have a whole End behind a goal as safe standing for home fans.

As I understand it, safe standing increases capacity in that area, so they'll be more people.

And when it comes to things like wanting to be with a group of mates (which does help atmosphere), you can easily do so.

At the moment I'm a STH in the Northam. If one of my mates wants to get a ticket and be near us, they have to buy a ticket 10-15 rows away.

 

Would love to have a whole End behind a goal as safe standing for home fans.

Standing is gone for ever I hope...

People cannot be trusted to behave.

Standing is gone for ever I hope...

People cannot be trusted to behave.

Hope not...how do you think anyone would misbehave any more stood in a purpose built *safe* standing area than stood in the seats as at present? Fans would be allocated one space with a rail bar in front of them to stop any forward motion. How anyone can't see that is far better and safer than the current situation I'll never understand. You'll probably say they shouldn't be standing in seated areas but they never been able to stop it yet if that's what those fans want to do. Surely it's just obvious to have to have a very safe option?

Standing is gone for ever I hope...

People cannot be trusted to behave.

The alternative is to allow them to stand but bore them senseless with some turgid football. We are halfway there.

I think some people would be genuinely surprised by the appetite there is for this, i personally reckon you could kill two birds with one stone here. Make the entire Northam safe standing and move the away fans to the Itchen corner (given the substantial building work i don't see why you shouldn't do both at once).

 

And even with that number i think it'd be the first place sold out every single game.

I would suggest making the Chapel safe standing, myself. For no other reason than because I'm in the Northam and I'm going to end up in a seat whether I like it or not, and I don't plan on moving. Also, economy of scale, they're better off doing the whole stand in one go than just a bit of one.

They're still not going to move the away fans, they're where they are on police advice.

Hope not...how do you think anyone would misbehave any more stood in a purpose built *safe* standing area than stood in the seats as at present? Fans would be allocated one space with a rail bar in front of them to stop any forward motion. How anyone can't see that is far better and safer than the current situation I'll never understand. You'll probably say they shouldn't be standing in seated areas but they never been able to stop it yet if that's what those fans want to do. Surely it's just obvious to have to have a very safe option?

The usual argument is that standing helps perpetrators of offences disappear into the crowd. Depending on the config that may or may not still be possible, but as you say, the gaps between people will probably be wide enough to see someone sneak off anyway.

Back in the news again...well, the Echo http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15528708.Saints_fans_launch_campaign_urging_officials_to_introduce_standing_at_St_Mary_s/

And some of those comments from the fingers-in-their-ears thickos...

Went to a match in Belgium on Sunday (KV Mechelen v KV Oostende).

Stood in an old fashioned terracing where many were smoking and virtually everyone had a beer in hand !

The atmosphere was great and it really took me back to 'the good old days' !

Wasn't exactly an epic match but I did enjoy it and I thought at the time how good it would be to get back to safe standing at SMS !

Have also been to Dortmund and Celtic Park so am very positive about the reintroduction!

Went to Exeter city away a few years back and had a superb time. Safe standing should have been introduced years ago.

600 people have signed the petition that I started a few weeks ago.

https://www.change.org/p/chairman-ralph-krueger-safe-standing-for-southampton-fans-at-st-mary-s-stadium

If you haven't signed it already, please sign and share.

I've posted the response from the Chairman today.

I was on BBC Radio Solent recently and the petition was on the front page of the Echo.

Thanks for your support for Safe Standing - first ever in England will probably be at Shrewsbury Town in March 2018, unless another club beats them to it.

I am trying to organise a demonstration of rail seats at St. Mary's. I first saw them in 2012 at a fans conference in London, and was converted. It's taken a long time for the national campaign to get to this stage, but I think we can get it trialled at St. Mary's.

We just need a Premier League club to make a public statement of support. Let's hope it is Southampton.

Best wishes,

Councillor Andrew Pope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRr1a3zitvE

Luckily nobody killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRr1a3zitvE

 

Luckily nobody killed.

Think you've posted on the wrong thread here, a wall collapsing in France has nothing to do with safe standing.

Think you've posted on the wrong thread here, a wall collapsing in France has nothing to do with safe standing.

Actually that's a very good example for why safe standing should be implemented, that would never happen with a rail in front of every standing fan.

Surely Everton will be the first, to add to their enviable list of football ground achievements.

Surely Everton will be the first, to add to their enviable list of football ground achievements.

The skates will put there's in ten years after everyone else then swear blind to anyone that listens that there's was the first and moooost pashooonatast, and that all the ultras in Eastern Europe based themselves on them.