How do we create an environment where players want to stay?

Hi.

The more I've read, the more that this summers outgoing transfers have reinforced this idea of Southampton being a club that often sells players. Nothing new here.

However what's apparent is that there's little the club or manager can do when players want out. We hear that was the case with Wanyama, Mane and Juanmi. It's probable Pelle went for money.

In any case, im not wanting a discussion about money. There's little we can do if we offer an early contract extension and another club comes and offers double. Maybe there's a way we can negotiate, or clauses about first team appearances, though.

But in the long term - how do we create the conditions, the environment, the structure, opportunities, that make players want to stay, and not leave.

For example, you might say Mane we just needed to offer a giant contract of money. But there's little we can do to affect saints cash flow other than a buyout or ironically, player sales. Not wanting to look back/regret - for future players, what can the club do to encourage players to stay?

Is it play time, is it making them feel settled in England?

Would like to hear your thoughts, as I feel we constantly turn to the issue of money. It would be nice to think if there's other ways to ensure there is a core of commuted players and a good culture around the club.

Hi.

The more I've read, the more that this summers outgoing transfers have reinforced this idea of Southampton being a club that often sells players. Nothing new here.

However what's apparent is that there's little the club or manager can do when players want out. We hear that was the case with Wanyama, Mane and Juanmi. It's probable Pelle went for money.

 

In any case, im not wanting a discussion about money. There's little we can do if we offer an early contract extension and another club comes and offers double. Maybe there's a way we can negotiate, or clauses about first team appearances, though.

 

But in the long term - how do we create the conditions, the environment, the structure, opportunities, that make players want to stay, and not leave.

 

For example, you might say Mane we just needed to offer a giant contract of money. But there's little we can do to affect saints cash flow other than a buyout or ironically, player sales. Not wanting to look back/regret - for future players, what can the club do to encourage players to stay?

 

Is it play time, is it making them feel settled in England?

 

Would like to hear your thoughts, as I feel we constantly turn to the issue of money. It would be nice to think if there's other ways to ensure there is a core of commuted players and a good culture around the club.

Think we just need to become one of the biggest clubs in the world. Shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

I am intensely relaxed about the players leaving who do leave. They clearly aren't committed. We do pretty much everything in our power to create an excellent training, development, and playing environment here. That's why the ones that stay and those we attract are so often such a success both individually and collectively as the team.

Last thing we should do is throw money at mercenaries.

I have come to terms with the fact it's not going to be possible, Leicester won the league and are group stage Champlain's league and Kante has gone and it looks like Mahrez too.if you can't keep a league winning team together what chance do we have

I always got annoyed that it happened to us but now I just hope that when we sell we get top dollar for them

Think we just need to become one of the biggest clubs in the world. Shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

Correct. Win the Eurosupercup a few years in a row and we will be able to draw in all those players from ManU, Chelsae etc, maybe even Pogba for $150M or so.

(That was one of the attractions of division 3: none of this nonsense)

must be an age thing, players come and go, have done for the last 55 years BUT SFC still remains. what is good is that very few actually better themselves in terms of playing when they move, just a bigger bank balance.

never be impressed by the kissing of the badge rubbish,95% are in it for the money, as are we in our jobs

Unless you are a top 4/5 team you will lose players, look at LCFC they will be losing Marhez and Kante after winning the league and CL football this season.

We are slowly becoming a bigger club by finishing top 8 regularly but to grow even more we need to over the next 2-3 years carry this on and get a League cup or FA cup win, regular europa league football and make the knock out stages and start to offer big wages however this will only stop summers of multi player sales and we will still lose the best player every season or two if one of the big boys come in, unless of course we become a top 4 regular which I never see us doing and this is a sad reality that football is actually **** for non big clubs as we celebrate 6th place as winning the league.

This is why we should of years ago done a american style system to ensure competitiveness, obviously doing drafts etc is impossible to do but if the FA introduce a rule once you sign a new contract you can not leave until you serve at least half of it or apply this to players promoted from the academy on the first contract they sign.

You can't really once the top bracket clubs get keen.

As a mitigation they should look to:

1. Give new signings longer contracts. This seems to be happening as recently signings have been given 5 year deals. We got into difficulty with Clyne, Wanyama and Mane as after two years of their four they won't sign new ones. Same would have happened with Jay Rod but for the injury.

2. Try and extend the contracts quickly if players are doing well. We did this with VVD. One year into a 5yr contract he signed a new 6 year one on increased pay, benefits him and enables us to get a bigger fee when he does go. Spurs have Alli a new deal after about 3 months when it was clear he was quality - it shows faith and a recognition that performance deserves reward.

3. Manage exits so they are relatively staggered position wise. This summer Mane and Pelle have gone so you keep yhe other attackers no matter what. Similar to what we did with Wanyama the summer Morgan left. Would be madness to have lost both.

4. Continue to scout well and invest cleverly in new players around the £10-£15m mark.

Money and wages....... Not rocket science ladies

We just need to continue what we are doing, it's a gradual transition.

I think we are a progressive club, I fully believe in the boardroom.

2-3 years ago I don't think the likes of vvd, Bertrand, Foster etc would have signed contract extensions, I don't think we go from a selling club to a club that doesn't sell its best players over 1-2 seasons, it'll take 5-6 seasons at least.

If we do well more will probably leave next summer, rather than an exedous it'll be calculated, so we can re-invest.

must be an age thing, players come and go, have done for the last 55 years BUT SFC still remains. what is good is that very few actually better themselves in terms of playing when they move, just a bigger bank balance.

never be impressed by the kissing of the badge rubbish,95% are in it for the money, as are we in our jobs

That is my take on it as well, any Leicester player cannot say he is leaving for champions league football now, when Lallana, Shaw and Lovren went it was always for the money, fact is who can blame them anyone else would do the same thing.

I am intensely relaxed about the players leaving who do leave. They clearly aren't committed. We do pretty much everything in our power to create an excellent training, development, and playing environment here. That's why the ones that stay and those we attract are so often such a success both individually and collectively as the team.

 

Last thing we should do is throw money at mercenaries.

The point of the thread is that it means, by that argument, most of our best players 'clearly aren't committed' every year. The truth is that becoming a big club costs money. The clubs that had the biggest ambitions and invested the most early in football history became the biggest. It didn't just happen by chance and it takes time. The first step is to build a big stadium. That is the common factor nearly all big clubs have. Increasing the capacity at St Mary's to 40,000 would be a big step in the right direction. It will be interesting to see if Leicester do that because until they do, they still look small in the eyes of players, fans and the media, in spite of just having won the Premier League. Big clubs usually became big because they had wealthy owners who poured money into them, as has happened at Man City recently. Getting one of those is, to a certain extent, down to luck.

All employed people who work for money and change their job for a better salary could be called 'mercenaries'. I understand that ordinary people are jealous of the ridiculous amounts of money top footballers earn but the same could be said of film stars and other famous people at the top in sports and entertainment. They needed an exceptional work ethic and great talent to get to the top of the pile. If you want the best, you pay the best salaries. That's true of most professions.

Hi.

 

 

In any case, im not wanting a discussion about money. There's little we can do if we offer an early contract extension and another club comes and offers double. Maybe there's a way we can negotiate, or clauses about first team appearances, though.

 

 

 

Would like to hear your thoughts, as I feel we constantly turn to the issue of money. It would be nice to think if there's other ways to ensure there is a core of commuted players and a good culture around the club.

Therein lies the answer I'm afraid.

Years ago I hoped that we'd bring a 'generation' through that would want to stick together from youth team onwards, think Shearer, Le Tiss, Two Wallaces, Maddison, but they departed, Le Tiss aside of course. More recently Ox, JWP, Chambers, Shaw. If we can't breed the team spirit from within, then there's little chance of keeping the a swquad together. Man Utd did it, but even Beckham 'outgrew' what they could offer after a few years.

If you have players who aren't good enough to be wanted by clubs prepared to offer them bigger salaries, like Francis Benali and Kelvin Davis, they will stay with you forever. If you have outstanding players of the calibre that usually get paid bigger salaries than you are prepared to pay them, like Shearer and Bale, then they won't stay. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, and Le Tissier was a gem of an exception.

I doubt there is anybody working at the club, from cleaning ladies, through admin staff, to Les Reed and Ralph Krueger who wouldn't move to another club if they were offered a lot more money to do so. Clearly, they have't been, which is why they are still here.

Just realised how to keep everyone on board.

Bring Cortese back, give him a role where he isn't accountable to the owner in terms of expenditure, and his charisma and spending on outrageous and unsustainable wages will keep everyone together for evermore.

He can even enhance the squad with some Gaston's and a few more Osvaldo's from Serie A whilst we're at it.

(Just gloss over the fact the only time he faced a large offer, Oxlade-Chamberlain left)

I think we already do have one of the best environments for a footballer.

It is about money, everyone has a price - especially footballers who have short careers.

Le Tiss is about the only exception I can think of for saints, but from a professional perspective he was naive not to move to a bigger club.

Maybe one answer is to look for quality players like Bertrand who have been with bigger clubs and have come to realise that money aside, it might be more enjoyable to be playing every game for a team like Saints. That certainly seemed to be the case with our latest signing from Bayern Munich.

Money and wages....... Not rocket science ladies

That's BINGO

I am intensely relaxed about the players leaving who do leave.

Is it possible to be intensely relaxed?

Is it possible to be intensely relaxed?

It was good enough for Mandelson and new Labour. Look it up.

Player come and players go, it has been the same for years and will not change. Get used to it!

Therein lies the answer I'm afraid.

 

Years ago I hoped that we'd bring a 'generation' through that would want to stick together from youth team onwards, think Shearer, Le Tiss, Two Wallaces, Maddison, but they departed, Le Tiss aside of course. More recently Ox, JWP, Chambers, Shaw. If we can't breed the team spirit from within, then there's little chance of keeping the a swquad together. Man Utd did it, but even Beckham 'outgrew' what they could offer after a few years.

I think Beckham went because Ferguson wanted him to go, not because he outgrew United.

Some move. Some stay. I would say we are doing something right when Forster, Fonte, VVD, Davis, Bertrand and JWP all commit to long term contracts. Just imagine the meltdown on here had they been strongly linked with other clubs. Add to that we are still able to attract players of the quality of Hejbjerg and Richmond. Even the so called big clubs lose players chasing more money.

Perhaps it should be down to the football authorities to restrict the number of players any club can transfer in, during a given period. Or even ban transfers between clubs at the same level. Or exercise some sort of controls over transfers. I'm sure someone will know, but is it American football that gives the weakest teams first pick of the college kids every year?

I think we already do have one of the best environments for a footballer.

 

It is about money, everyone has a price - especially footballers who have short careers.

 

Le Tiss is about the only exception I can think of for saints, but from a professional perspective he was naive not to move to a bigger club.

I don't think matty ever needed the money, weren't his family already very well off? It was also the thing about living close to Southampton airport. One of those rare players who genuinely played for the love of the game and nothing much else.

Perhaps it should be down to the football authorities to restrict the number of players any club can transfer in, during a given period. Or even ban transfers between clubs at the same level. Or exercise some sort of controls over transfers. I'm sure someone will know, but is it American football that gives the weakest teams first pick of the college kids every year?

Yeh, and the bigger teams trade those places in the pick for other things, such as players etc.

The problem will always be down to money and status, which playing for a big clubs gives you, (why you just needed to be English and play for a top 4 club to be picked for the England team until recently.)

And don't forget the 10%ers, the agents. They only get their payday when the player leaves the club, so they encourage this. Look at Koeman, first agent tells him to stay at Sooshampoton, but second agent gets first one out of the way and pushes for the Everton move. Removing them, or banning bonuses would go greatly to stopping this.

The question asks about creating (a better) environment. So that's also down to local politicians to improve Southampton as a great regional metropolis and cultural centre. Better quality and adventurous architecture, sports, entertainment and arts facilities would be a start. Southampton needs to be the place that everyone in the south and west wants to come to. That is also about ambition. It won't happen without public response.

We have some of the most beautiful countryside in England around Southampton and sailing is of international quality. But the city of Southampton (while we have great parks) is not exceptional.

1. Pay them more than anyone else is willing to offer

2. Buy them a Birthday cake

Silly OP.

You say that there is little to nothing the club can do, and then say you don't want a discussion about money.

1. Keep a core of top, influential players - check (VvD, Fonte, Bertrand, Forster, Davis, etc)

2. Act smartly in the transfer market - check (did we sell our 'best' players in Vic, Pelle & Mane? I think not. Good, but not best)

3. Be continually successful - hmm, not quite. 7 years of continual improvement (fantastic), but not much silverware... yet

4. Expand as a club - not yet. Need a stadium expansion to make a statement. Everything else (academy, training facilities, club structure, etc) is in place, it seems

I have tried not to mention money/wages.

The real answer is we can't and won't be able to for a long time.

Even Leicester who won the league and will be in Champions League next year can't stop the pull.

Basically I think world football will have to wake up and start really enforcing things like spending caps, salary caps etc. It's clear the financial fair play laws aren't going to do much, they are just going to stop another Chelsea/Man City situation. Man Ut's turnover was like £450 million, ours was like £125 million, they will spend £100 million on Pogba and absorb most of that cost. If anything FFP is just going to return/keep the likes of Utd, Real Madrid, Barca to the top because they have the highest revenue so they can spend the most of wages and transfers without breaking FFP.

If greater competition is wanted then salary caps and spending caps have to be enforced, the rules on HG players, domestic player in your squads have to be stricter, things like this.

We can only really do what the club has been doing:

- try to find cheap talent, both at youth level and for the first team, even play on the development aspect (2 years you might go to Man Utd or whatever)

- sign players to long contracts to maximise their position if clubs come looking for them,

- offer your players the best contracts you can, some will stay (Bertrand, VVD, Forster)

- squeeze every percent you can from sports science, coaching, the academy so we can get the maximum potential from our players and youth products

- try to maximise our commercial revenue, use the premier league's strengths to find new fans in other countries, get them buying shirts etc.

- try to create a team that's sum is greater than it's individual parts (hence why we recruit looking at personality, attitude etc.)

- try to improve on the pitch, the higher we finish, the more often we get in europe, win cups etc. the more players will stay.

- Maximise your potential revenue round the stadium and on match days, so develop corporate facilities, try to develop the area around the stadium

The club is doing pretty much all of this but it takes time and the effects will trickle through slowly, but the more money, the more profile the club has, the better it does in the league, in europe, the higher wages we can offer and the more players will want to stay.

Plus the club has potential for growth, we are pretty much the only Premier league club south of the M4 and London, with Portsmouths demise our potential catchment area is huge both for recruiting new fans and for recruiting young players. But for new fans to come to St Mary's we have to win things and get better. Do that any maybe 5-10 years down the line we might have waiting lists for seasons tickets and might be looking at expanding the stadium.

I don't think matty ever needed the money, weren't his family already very well off?

No. Wealth is relative of course, but I think growing up on a council estate on Guernsey would not mean they were "very well off".

Chelsea did it but it cost a billion pounds.

Man City did it quicker and it cost over a billion pounds.

You need to have the best players, compete for tropheys and pay a top age.

Just not possible for us unless someone wants to chuck loads and loads (not everton type 100 million) bucket loadsat us.

No. Wealth is relative of course, but I think growing up on a council estate on Guernsey would not mean they were "very well off".

I thought his family owned a load of the tomato farms there?

Hi.

The more I've read, the more that this summers outgoing transfers have reinforced this idea of Southampton being a club that often sells players. Nothing new here.

However what's apparent is that there's little the club or manager can do when players want out. We hear that was the case with Wanyama, Mane and Juanmi. It's probable Pelle went for money.

 

In any case, im not wanting a discussion about money. There's little we can do if we offer an early contract extension and another club comes and offers double. Maybe there's a way we can negotiate, or clauses about first team appearances, though.

 

But in the long term - how do we create the conditions, the environment, the structure, opportunities, that make players want to stay, and not leave.

 

For example, you might say Mane we just needed to offer a giant contract of money. But there's little we can do to affect saints cash flow other than a buyout or ironically, player sales. Not wanting to look back/regret - for future players, what can the club do to encourage players to stay?

 

Is it play time, is it making them feel settled in England?

 

Would like to hear your thoughts, as I feel we constantly turn to the issue of money. It would be nice to think if there's other ways to ensure there is a core of commuted players and a good culture around the club.

You can't divorce money from this issue it really is a simple as that. There was an idea that if we got Europe or won the league it would give us more chance to hold on to players but Mane and Kante are rubbishing that theory this summer....sadly football is all about money.

I dont think we want to. Liverpool have essentially bankrolled our shot at top four and if they keep doing it then great. Not many teams can go out and buy multiple players in the £10m plus category without massive investment so I am pretty happy with how we are doing things. The danger will come if we stop spending the money the sales bring

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I dont think we want to. Liverpool have essentially bankrolled our shot at top four and if they keep doing it then great. Not many teams can go out and buy multiple players in the £10m plus category without massive investment so I am pretty happy with how we are doing things. The danger will come if we stop spending the money the sales bring

 

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or the danger will come if the scouting fuc*s up surely. the way the pre is, unless you are the traditional top 6, anyone can go down, and anything can happen.

also noticed how ranieri said target is get the 40 points and then move forwards from there.

Foster, VVD, JWP, Steven Davis and Ryan Bertrand have all signed new contracts this summer with rumours that Shane Long, Tadic and Cedric will follow.

Seems to me that we are already convincing a lot of our better players to stay. Won't work with all players just as Leicester have kept Vardy but lost Kante. Trick is to not let the departures impact you by being well prepared (e.g. Leicester signing Mendy cos they knew Kante might go).

Its soo much simpler . In the vast majority of players its just down to money . Better players will leave .

Modern players who fans claim are loyal are simply staying because we are as good as they can manage . They get game time which in turn improves their skill set . This sets them up for either an improved contract or a transfer to a bigger team .

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Even for players who love the game, the obligation to train every day and the strictures of being managed by people you potentially dislike/don't respect etc presumably eventually turn it into a job (albeit one you probably enjoy more than a lot of people).

Since it's a job, I can't see many footballers looking beyond money (actual capital) and prestige (social capital) when they weigh up where they want to play (maybe location, but I'm guessing it's a very very distant third, especially as the UK as a whole isn't exactly renowned for its beautiful post-war architecture or glorious weather).

We aren't anywhere near the top in providing either type of capital, so we can't expect to prevent players from moving on (outside of football most people would probably weigh up job security when considering switching from one employer to the other, but for a variety of reasons, I don't think this probably matters much to footballers).

In short, there's nothing - absolutely nothing - we can do unless someone has a spare £1bn they want to donate to the club.

If you cant compete on money then you try and make your club attractive in other ways. Having a nice place to work, team spirit, shop window club, reputation for developing players, good academy, attractive area to live, not too much fish bowl pressure all matter too. Saints have done well on those measures.

Footballers, at least all the players ive ever got to know, are not like the average poster on SWF so its very difficult to try to rationalise their thought processes. The players ive known think about nothing much apart from themselves. They place themselves, and are placed by their onterages, in a superstar class that means that thoughts of loyalty to a fanbase or employer just dont come under consideration. They think in terms of how highly their personal stock can rise, plain and simple. Any ideas of making a player think long term or maturely are, ambitious IMHO.

Money.

Two main ways.

 

1. Become massive club - will take several decades of success and global branding.

2. Don't have players good enough for top 5/6.

 

I'd go with just appreciating the situation and getting on with it. I don't know why it gets brought up all the time. Sometimes it's just the usual trolls looking for a reaction or Batman's desire to be everton, but it's odd so many can't see saints are unique in their success for a smaller club. 7 years of improvement and successful recruitment list doesn't happen many places. We sell because we have great players that want to play for the big clubs and they're prepared to offer silly money. It will happen with VVD next summer I'm sure.

 

The clubs that had success in the early years of TV coverage were bound to stay big. Liverpool get by without challenging for titles. Players grow up dreaming of playing for these clubs not Southampton. That would take forever to change, and if it did we'd all be labelled glory hunters. I never wanted to support a Liverpool or Utd, it sounds awful.

.... hit the nail on the head !!

It is all about money. Player wages is key. Pay big, they will stay for a while, then they move on for more money, and I guess some also will want the champions league to challenge themselves, but mainly money.

Saints signing players on long term deals is great, but only in as much as they know they'll get more for them when they leave.

Forster/vvd/Bertrand will all leave, and I'm sure the club have said sign a long term deal, and we'll all benefit when you go.

I'd imagine that Davies and jwp are on much smaller wages, and although good pros, no one is going to be beating the door down to sign them up. Supply and demand.

If last years league winners can't keep hold of their best players how can we expect to be any different! ?

If last years league winners can't keep hold of their best players how can we expect to be any different! ?

release clause?

be interesting to see if Leicester would have accepted the bid had they been in a position to

the club should operate their own luxury yacht for players to share time upon. i know it's supremely silly, but truly its something other teams could not offer and could help build identity. also it would be boss as **** to send the team to matches in Amsterdam / Nantes etc overnight by sea. free press! anyhow, I am sure the Liebherrs have one they barely use. silly, yes, but it seems so obvious to me that I don't know why the club haven't done it.

(feel free to mock me for wearing my Florida / caribbean person goggles. yes i know the weather's better here.)

If we take MONEY out of the equation, then I would think that the environment at SFC is one of the best in the EPL.

What WE can do as fans in creating a positive environment is to avoid the knee-jerk tendency (on here) to scapegoat one or two players who are in a bad patch of form. Belittling and insulting players and staff has to be counter-productive, eh?

What to do? Well maybe players would want to stay if Southampton could win the Premier League title and go on to compete in the Champions League.

Hang on though. Leicester have done that and they are still losing players, even to clubs not playing in European competition at all.

There's an easy answer to keeping players which is to pay them obscene wages along the lines of the You Know Who clubs. Do that and not only will the current ones want to stay but others would be beating down the door to come here. There are obstacles of course; the club has to have enough money to do it, and even if Katherina were to offer a few hundred million, there are the Fair Play rules. C'est la vie.