Do we need to sell to the 'big' clubs to progress?

Another pre season and another 'meltdown' with the sale of 2 of our first 11.

It's left the press asking how long can we continue to sell our best players and keep improving?

But surely it's better to have a club where players believe they can play at the highest level, believe they can rub shoulders with the players at the biggest clubs and believe they are better than mid table Southampton?

Why would we want someone who believes there are far better players, so when they visit Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc. That they hope, rather than believe they can win.

Signing winners who are full of self belief is what gives us an edge over other mid table sides.

We will never be a big English club. We don't have the history and we don't have the money. We can still (and I believe we have) created a culture of progression and success that is relative to a club of our size.

I realise my argument has become broader than the original question, however are people happy supporting a club that is set up to remain in the Premier League but never truly challenge the top clubs in England?

I think the club has established themselves as a top flight club. The money we have received has gone towards much more than squad improvement. We now have some of the best training facilities in the world, the best sports science team in the league, a top recruitment team and a great club culture now. On top of this some of our best players are starting to commit long term. By spending this money effectively, I think that this ensures that we remain in the Premier League for years to come. Saints have been very smart in the past few years and I believe they will continue on with that.

I think you have identified the key issue here. Today we are signing players who are young and very much still improving - not only in the club's eyes but in their own eyes too. So inevitably some will want to realise their dream (if it comes knocking) and move to a glamour outfit and pocket the big bucks.

If you think back to our Premier League days before our meltdown and reconstruction, we signed players like Williams, Telfer, Ormerod, Quashie who were (with respect) "journeyman" sort of players and mostly close to or over the age of 30. I just don't see us signing that sort of players any more and I think that is indicative of our attitude as a club - but the price to pay is, every summer transfer window, a couple of our "better players" are likely to leave, to move onwards and upwards.

The only way to stop it would be to push into the top 4 and offer Champions League football at St Mary's Stadium. Will it happen? Maybe - but its not really likely......

So if we as supporters can enjoy the "new reality" and not fret over it, we will probably be doing ourselves a favour!

The step up to be one of the top 4 is a big one and the Club would lose something if it could do that. We would need a bigger stadium and be able to fill it , much better commercial success with all that goes with that and probably new owners that could finance all that . It would not then be the club we have supported .

I hope we stay in the prem for years , building until we get a shot at the title .

Last season we finished 3 points shy of a top 4 finish. Just an observation...

The step up to be one of the top 4 is a big one and the Club would lose something if it could do that. We would need a bigger stadium and be able to fill it , much better commercial success with all that goes with that and probably new owners that could finance all that . It would not then be the club we have supported .

I hope we stay in the prem for years , building until we get a shot at the title .

The million dollar question is whether we have the potential to become a so-called big club and if we do what steps do we need to be contemplating. It's debatable but one thing that surely needs addressing is the capacity of the ground.

In short, yes.

If we aren't we are either stagnating (which is fine at the very top only) or heading in a downward direction. How many we sell and when we do it is my only gripe. But so far so good.

The million dollar question is whether we have the potential to become a so-called big club and if we do what steps do we need to be contemplating. It's debatable but one thing that surely needs addressing is the capacity of the ground.

It's not a million dollar question.

It's a question that has been comprehensively answered and put to bed.

Looking at where the club was 7 years ago and even where it was last time we were in the PL, it's becoming unrecognisable. In a good way. The club is slowly growing and with every year in the PL, especially if we continue to qualify for Europe we will continue to grow.

Leicester was a freak. That will happen once or twice a lifetime. We should be concentrating on continuing to grow as a club. On the field and commercially.

Continue to qualify for Europe. Do well in Europe and strive for silverware. FA Cup or LC. That's the next step.

Maybe we can capitalise on some of the big clubs faltering again and make top 4.

To challenge for a title is too much.

We will probably always sell our best players to the huge clubs. That's reality when you bring in or develop young talent.

I'll be more concerned when no one wants to buy our players.

It's not a million dollar question.

 

It's a question that has been comprehensively answered and put to bed.

To you maybe but I can't recall your view. Can we be a big club? If your answer is no fair enough but if your answer is yes then how? Genuine question and one you haven't put entirely to bed because if so you wouldn't have ventured ok to this thread?

To you maybe but I can't recall your view. Can we be a big club? If your answer is no fair enough but if your answer is yes then how? Genuine question and one you haven't put entirely to bed because if so you wouldn't have ventured ok to this thread?

So a million dollar question is any question worthy of discussion on a Web forum? Making "was the moon landing faked" and "was the murder of Lee Rigby an inside job" also million dollar questions.

You're the club historian. Go over every interview with every leader of the club post Leibherr (and pre if you like) and read. Every one, every single one, with Les and Cortese and Ralph and Katharina, over and over again say what we can be and what we will never be. Nicola was a mentalist but even he talked very clearly about how we need to compete with the big clubs while making a virtue of how our "way" can make us competitive with them because we can't and won't be like them.

Interview after interview. Quote after quote after quote. Six, seven bloody years if it.

But yeah, million dollar question.

So a million dollar question is any question worthy of discussion on a Web forum? Making "was the moon landing faked" and "was the murder of Lee Rigby an inside job" also million dollar questions.

 

You're the club historian. Go over every interview with every leader of the club post Leibherr (and pre if you like) and read. Every one, every single one, with Les and Cortese and Ralph and Katharina, over and over again say what we can be and what we will never be. Nicola was a mentalist but even he talked very clearly about how we need to compete with the big clubs while making a virtue of how our "way" can make us competitive with them because we can't and won't be like them.

 

Interview after interview. Quote after quote after quote. Six, seven bloody years if it.

 

But yeah, million dollar question.

It is a shame that you intersperse your quite insightful posts with attempts to belittle with sarcasm as I am sure you would be taken on here with more seriousness.

I don't really think the likes of Nicola, Ralph etc know the real answer. They are business men entrusted to make a profit and are no real judges of potential fan growth other from a marketing angle. Perhaps they have no real interest? Too much risk investment etc. Even Lowe, who was around a lot longer, initially resisted a 30,000 plus stadium believing we wouldn't fill it. I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with looking to boost St Marys by say a third and, I maintain at the moment, our relatively small stadium (compared with the premier league big boys) is the biggest hurdle, if indeed we think we can join the big boys. You yourself did not answer whether you think we can or not?

It is a shame that you intersperse your quite insightful posts with attempts to belittle with sarcasm as I am sure you would be taken on here with more seriousness.

I don't really think the likes of Nicola, Ralph etc know the real answer. They are business men entrusted to make a profit and are no real judges of potential fan growth other from a marketing angle. Perhaps they have no real interest? Too much risk investment etc. Even Lowe, who was around a lot longer, initially resisted a 30,000 plus stadium believing we wouldn't fill it. I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with looking to boost St Marys by say a third and, I maintain at the moment, our relatively small stadium (compared with the premier league big boys) is the biggest hurdle, if indeed we think we can join the big boys. You yourself did not answer whether you think we can or not?

So the people that own and run the club aren't the people that influence whether we'll be a big club but fans on a message board are? Okay then. You planning some kind of overthrow of the board?

Maybe ask why those people might think the things you wish for is a "risk". Maybe the "real answer" is it is a risk. Maybe the real answer is in our actual attendance performance, the real answer is in the non-existant season ticket waiting list, the real answer is in watching what Manchester City have done and deciding not to do that because we're not going to just be a money pit vanity project. Why is none of that "the real answer?"

We're not going to "join the big boys". As covered by the multiple interviews with the people who own and run the club. I'd say they are the "real judges" and people that just want a fantasy stadium and fantasy club are not the real judges at all, just giddy clueless fans.

So the people that own and run the club aren't the people that influence whether we'll be a big club but fans on a message board are? Okay then. You planning some kind of overthrow of the board?

 

Maybe ask why those people might think the things you wish for is a "risk". Maybe the "real answer" is it is a risk. Maybe the real answer is in our actual attendance performance, the real answer is in the non-existant season ticket waiting list, the real answer is in watching what Manchester City have done and deciding not to do that because we're not going to just be a money pit vanity project. Why is none of that "the real answer?"

 

We're not going to "join the big boys". As covered by the multiple interviews with the people who own and run the club. I'd say they are the "real judges" and people that just want a fantasy stadium and fantasy club are not the real judges at all, just giddy clueless fans.

Oh yes they have influence but perhaps their connection to the club is always going to be more short term in comparison with the lifelong fan and therefore less inclined to aspire. That's not intended to sound critical. When I was born we were regarded as a 2nd/3rd Division outfit with our glory days being at the turn of the century. We have steadily progressed and are on the verge of being regarded as a top club, but our best players continue to leave. Surely it's not heresy to ask is there anything we can do to stop that happening?

First, we have to have a world class brand. If we are going to compete regularly with the big 6 we need to increase our income. That will allow us to invest more

Secondly, we need to fill the stadium regularly (most matches) and as has already been said to have a good waiting list for season tickets to justify increasing the capacity of the stadium (more income)

Thirdly, we need to regularly (every season) compete and finish in the top part of the league with regular European Football (every season) via league or cup competition

With all that in place and with a bit of financial risk taking when we are near to that level, we might just begin to believe and achieve.

For now I am happy where we are.

Yes.

See athletico Madrid & Dortmund.

Yes.

 

See athletico Madrid & Dortmund.

Athletico and Dortmund are in leagues where they are really in no danger of relegation, and they will never get relegated.

With us, we are as close to the CL as we are to getting relegated, the PL is very competitive.

I don't mind our approach with things if the scouting is right however, just that if in one season it goes horribly horribly wrong.

Aston Villa finished 6 three seasons in a row 8 years ago, and now where are they. They're past 5 seasons have been dire and I worry something like that can never happen to us.