Man Utd v Saints Post Match Hmmmmm.....

I seem to remember Koeman was the worst manger we ever had for the first 6 games of his first season .

Time to remind people of the 10 game rule ?

Are you sure? I seem to remember being pleasantly surprised by our away loss to Liverpool, a turgid draw against west bro, and then 4 straight wins. I'm all for supporting the new bloke (despite my misgivings about set up and squad) but let's not change the past to suit being all happy about this season. Koeman was and is the best manager we've had in a while. In fact I just looked we won 8 out of his first 11 games in the league.

I seem to remember Koeman was the worst manger we ever had for the first 6 games of his first season .

Time to remind people of the 10 game rule ?

Koeman was under severe pressure last season when we lost 8 out of 10

Are you sure? I seem to remember being pleasantly surprised by our away loss to Liverpool, a turgid draw against west bro, and then 4 straight wins. I'm all for supporting the new bloke (despite my misgivings about set up and squad) but let's not change the past to suit being all happy about this season. Koeman was and is the best manager we've had in a while. In fact I just looked we won 8 out of his first 11 games in the league.

That's how I remember it. However, there is a lot of 're-writing of history' as I have pointed out many times.

... let's not change the past to suit ... Koeman was and is the best manager we've had in a while.

hmmm

We badly need a new striker. You can't just replace Pelle and Mane with Redmond and hope to score enough.

With the extra Europa games I would add another 2 or 3 players at least.

However, there is a lot of 're-writing of history' as I have pointed out many times.

Maybe you could find a TimeLord to put things right ?

We badly need a new striker. You can't just replace Pelle and Mane with Redmond and hope to score enough.

 

With the extra Europa games I would add another 2 or 3 players at least.

That's what we need. Even then, this is a new team and it's asking a lot to have a watertight defence and a fluid attacking threat in the first couple of games.

I think it is very sad that we point at players like Matt Targett. He is not getting the back up of who is in front of him and had to try and nullify Valencia who is tricky and very quick. Targett was one of the few players who actually got into crossing positions and tried to get the ball in the box.

It is also rich that fans who have been saying to me that we dont need to invest then criticise the young players coming in to the team to learn their trade. Get used to young players being inconsistant and looking lost in our first team, as that is the future, as we get the worst bits of a players development before they are sold at high prices to rival teams.

Not that it means a lot or in fact anything but the Sun had Targett as our stand out player (7 out of 10). Everyone else played to exactly the same standard and got 6 out of 10 each.

We badly need a new striker. You can't just replace Pelle and Mane with Redmond and hope to score enough.

They haven't thought have they? They brought Austin in to replace Pelle, as well as Rodriguez being back fit again. There will be one more attacking signing, in addition to Redmond, to replace Mane. Hojbjerg is an upgrade on Wanyama as well.

If we had a manager playing a system and style to suit the players we have, people wouldn't be complaining about the transfer business. We have a squad set up to play 433 and should be playing that way

They haven't thought have they? They brought Austin in to replace Pelle, as well as Rodriguez being back fit again. There will be one more attacking signing, in addition to Redmond, to replace Mane. Hojbjerg is an upgrade on Wanyama as well.

 

If we had a manager playing a system and style to suit the players we have, people wouldn't be complaining about the transfer business. We have a squad set up to play 433 and should be playing that way

says who?

only on here. Thought Austin was brought in to supplement the strike force

who stated that Austin was brought in for Pelle other than saintsweb?

redmond to replace mane is the biggest load of shyte on here. Redmond for Juanmi for me

says who?

only on here. Thought Austin was brought in to supplement the strike force

 

who stated that Austin was brought in for Pelle other than saintsweb?

 

redmond to replace mane is the biggest load of shyte on here. Redmond for Juanmi for me

The Mane replacement isn't here yet. We will bring in one more attacking player. Are we writing off Rodriguez completely despite not really seeing him play?

Jeremy Wilson wrote an article for the Telegraph when Pelle left stating Austin was his replacement. Considering he clearly gets information leaked to him directly from the club I think it's fair to say that's very likely to be the case

says who?

only on here. Thought Austin was brought in to supplement the strike force

 

who stated that Austin was brought in for Pelle other than saintsweb?

 

redmond to replace mane is the biggest load of shyte on here. Redmond for Juanmi for me

There are several contenders for putting shyte on here and you are in the leading pack

says who?

only on here. Thought Austin was brought in to supplement the strike force

 

who stated that Austin was brought in for Pelle other than saintsweb?

 

redmond to replace mane is the biggest load of shyte on here. Redmond for Juanmi for me

I agree. But I can only hope that the window doesn't close before we've brought in a couple more.

(11pm next Wednesday 31st August)

The Mane replacement isn't here yet. We will bring in one more attacking player. Are we writing off Rodriguez completely despite not really seeing him play?

 

Jeremy Wilson wrote an article for the Telegraph when Pelle left stating Austin was his replacement. Considering he clearly gets information leaked to him directly from the club I think it's fair to say that's very likely to be the case

Well when Les was interviewing Puel for the job he should have made that clear

I agree

Very good and honest post match summary from Højbjerg

https://streamable.com/3cek

Well when Les was interviewing Puel for the job he should have made that clear

He might have unless you were there and know otherwise

They haven't thought have they? They brought Austin in to replace Pelle, as well as Rodriguez being back fit again. There will be one more attacking signing, in addition to Redmond, to replace Mane. Hojbjerg is an upgrade on Wanyama as well.

 

If we had a manager playing a system and style to suit the players we have, people wouldn't be complaining about the transfer business. We have a squad set up to play 433 and should be playing that way

Bit risky relying on Austin and Jay Rod, unless we are playing in an imaginary world where they are not permanently injured.

Bit risky relying on Austin and Jay Rod, unless we are playing in an imaginary world where they are not permanently injured.

Are they then?

Sure I've seen them in both games!

The Mane replacement isn't here yet. We will bring in one more attacking player. Are we writing off Rodriguez completely despite not really seeing him play?

 

Jeremy Wilson wrote an article for the Telegraph when Pelle left stating Austin was his replacement. Considering he clearly gets information leaked to him directly from the club I think it's fair to say that's very likely to be the case

Jeremy Wilson said in an article the other week that Redmond is Mane's replacement IIRC.

He might have unless you were there and know otherwise

Jeremy Wilson said in an article the other week that Redmond is Mane's replacement IIRC.

I'm not sure he was as precise on that as he was about Austin and Pelle. Either way i think it's fairly obvious the club want another attacking option and if they don't bring another one in then they will have ****ed up and left us far too light. They have another 10 days to get it done, which I'm confident they will. Their choice in manager I'm far less confident about

I'm not sure he was as precise on that as he was about Austin and Pelle. Either way i think it's fairly obvious the club want another attacking option and if they don't bring another one in then they will have ****ed up and left us far too light. They have another 10 days to get it done, which I'm confident they will. Their choice in manager I'm far less confident about

fair comments

Three things I find astonishing...

 

1. Why the mods are seemingly oblivious and haven't banned him.

2. Why people still continue to respond to him. Even sarcastic remarks about how 'hilarious' his routine is just feed his ego.

3. How an individual can be this utterly tragic. It's been like 12 years since he started with all the Hoddle stuff and he's still at it.

You are becoming more than a tad obsessed with this guy aren't you? Whether you like what he says or not he is entitled to state his point of views as indeed you are. My advice is to forget all about this personality stuff and concentrate on the football. Why should the mods see things your way rather than his?

Very good and honest post match summary from Højbjerg

 

https://streamable.com/3cek

Thanks for posting this link.

He speaks well and he is honest which is nice to see, not just the same old boring clichés we hear so often

I like him alot, just needs more quality around him and/or for our current squad to adapt quicker to the new style / formation

I seem to remember Koeman was the worst manger we ever had for the first 6 games of his first season .

Time to remind people of the 10 game rule ?

Obviously you have a bad memory then. Did anyonr actually write Koeman off after 6 games? Maybe one of the forum loons but not much else. He was being criticised when we lost 8 out of 10 but that was because he was performing badly. He turned things round by falling out with Les and showed he could do things if given free reign. Ultimately it cost him his job though wheread cp gives the impression of being a oui man.

Yes poor memory , I plead guilty .

We finished 6th with a decent team playing a system that suited it. That put us in amongst the best Premier teams however whilst most of them strengthened their team we lost two key players and a decent goal scorer. We then apart from replacing a reserve goalkeeper, brought in three, Hojbjerg-brilliant, Redmond - potential, Pied - if it's cheap it probably is hardly treading water.

The teams around us in the main retained their strength and added three or four better players. If we had retained our players we would still have been looking for the club to strengthen positions with the players that have come in. In my view we have slipped back strength wise.

Even worse I subscribe to the system suiting the players not shoehorning players into the new managers favourite system. He patently thinks meaningless possession statistics will translate into an unbeatable side by not allowing the opponents the ball. The diamond with attacking full backs has a major weakness, the space in the corners behind the advanced full backs. All three goals conceded have been conceded from there, two by crosses from our left corner and one a dubious penalty in the right corner.

Austin needs to be up front and centre doing what he is good at. Long is mobile mayhem, supporting Austin. Tadic, Redmond or Rodriguez wide. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Clasie with full backs whose primary job is defense. Cedric is a nice footballer on the ball, defends desperately but is awful when the ball is crossed from the right. Targett tries hard and is coming on but Bertrand is a class act. I don't buy into Pied as the answer on the strength of a couple of cameos late in games we were mostly attacking. Martina was a cheap option that probably did better than expected but now looks redundant. That doesn't translate in any way shape or form into a diamond.

We finished 6th with a decent team playing a system that suited it. That put us in amongst the best Premier teams however whilst most of them strengthened their team we lost two key players and a decent goal scorer. We then apart from replacing a reserve goalkeeper, brought in three, Hojbjerg-brilliant, Redmond - potential, Pied - if it's cheap it probably is hardly treading water.

 

The teams around us in the main retained their strength and added three or four better players. If we had retained our players we would still have been looking for the club to strengthen positions with the players that have come in. In my view we have slipped back strength wise.

 

Even worse I subscribe to the system suiting the players not shoehorning players into the new managers favourite system. He patently thinks meaningless possession statistics will translate into an unbeatable side by not allowing the opponents the ball. The diamond with attacking full backs has a major weakness, the space in the corners behind the advanced full backs. All three goals conceded have been conceded from there, two by crosses from our left corner and one a dubious penalty in the right corner.

 

Austin needs to be up front and centre doing what he is good at. Long is mobile mayhem, supporting Austin. Tadic, Redmond or Rodriguez wide. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Clasie with full backs whose primary job is defense. Cedric is a nice footballer on the ball, defends desperately but is awful when the ball is crossed from the right. Targett tries hard and is coming on but Bertrand is a class act. I don't buy into Pied as the answer on the strength of a couple of cameos late in games we were mostly attacking. Martina was a cheap option that probably did better than expected but now looks redundant. That doesn't translate in any way shape or form into a diamond.

Bloody spot on +1

We finished 6th with a decent team playing a system that suited it. That put us in amongst the best Premier teams however whilst most of them strengthened their team we lost two key players and a decent goal scorer. We then apart from replacing a reserve goalkeeper, brought in three, Hojbjerg-brilliant, Redmond - potential, Pied - if it's cheap it probably is hardly treading water.

 

The teams around us in the main retained their strength and added three or four better players. If we had retained our players we would still have been looking for the club to strengthen positions with the players that have come in. In my view we have slipped back strength wise.

 

Even worse I subscribe to the system suiting the players not shoehorning players into the new managers favourite system. He patently thinks meaningless possession statistics will translate into an unbeatable side by not allowing the opponents the ball. The diamond with attacking full backs has a major weakness, the space in the corners behind the advanced full backs. All three goals conceded have been conceded from there, two by crosses from our left corner and one a dubious penalty in the right corner.

 

Austin needs to be up front and centre doing what he is good at. Long is mobile mayhem, supporting Austin. Tadic, Redmond or Rodriguez wide. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Clasie with full backs whose primary job is defense. Cedric is a nice footballer on the ball, defends desperately but is awful when the ball is crossed from the right. Targett tries hard and is coming on but Bertrand is a class act. I don't buy into Pied as the answer on the strength of a couple of cameos late in games we were mostly attacking. Martina was a cheap option that probably did better than expected but now looks redundant. That doesn't translate in any way shape or form into a diamond.

+2

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We finished 6th with a decent team playing a system that suited it. That put us in amongst the best Premier teams however whilst most of them strengthened their team we lost two key players and a decent goal scorer. We then apart from replacing a reserve goalkeeper, brought in three, Hojbjerg-brilliant, Redmond - potential, Pied - if it's cheap it probably is hardly treading water.

 

The teams around us in the main retained their strength and added three or four better players. If we had retained our players we would still have been looking for the club to strengthen positions with the players that have come in. In my view we have slipped back strength wise.

 

Even worse I subscribe to the system suiting the players not shoehorning players into the new managers favourite system. He patently thinks meaningless possession statistics will translate into an unbeatable side by not allowing the opponents the ball. The diamond with attacking full backs has a major weakness, the space in the corners behind the advanced full backs. All three goals conceded have been conceded from there, two by crosses from our left corner and one a dubious penalty in the right corner.

 

Austin needs to be up front and centre doing what he is good at. Long is mobile mayhem, supporting Austin. Tadic, Redmond or Rodriguez wide. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Clasie with full backs whose primary job is defense. Cedric is a nice footballer on the ball, defends desperately but is awful when the ball is crossed from the right. Targett tries hard and is coming on but Bertrand is a class act. I don't buy into Pied as the answer on the strength of a couple of cameos late in games we were mostly attacking. Martina was a cheap option that probably did better than expected but now looks redundant. That doesn't translate in any way shape or form into a diamond.

Well put and sums things up perfectly. Personally, I've got no problem with changing the system but you've got to have the right tools for the job. Looking at the squad at the moment it still lines up better in the 4-2-3-1 formation.

What we are seeing is interesting and begins to make sense of what Puel has been trying to explain. Under Koeman we were predominantly a counter-attacking team staying solid at the back, not being overly aggressive in midfield but waiting for openings, then moving forwards quickly using direct balls through the channels to our fast front runners which suited Long and Tadic and Austin. We conserved our energies by sitting back for long periods probing ready for the lightning attacks so gave the appearance of having bags of stamina right through to the end.

Under Puel we seem to want to become a set-attacking side that keeps the ball and moves forward aggressively most of the time using fast wing-backs to get in behind and then working the ball into the box, in effect denying the ball to the opponent. This isn't working well at the moment as our players cannot keep up a high tempo attacking pace for most of the match, they have not been used to this, nor do we have tall target men in the centre to cross to so we have to compromise the wing-back runs and try to work the ball through to feet which is evidently bloody difficult in a packed defence. Hence yesterday we saw as the game progressed that we still had plenty of the ball but our pace slowed and our passing accuracy diminished through fatigue. It was unusual in that for large spells we seem to have forced the home side into the counter-attacking role normally used by away sides.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out after a dozen matches when we should be much fitter and faster and more confident on the ball but if this analysis is anywhere near realistic we have to be bringing in a couple of taller strikes more suited to the role, as many have observed most of our attackers are relatively short. It's a shame Pellé left us he might have revelled in this new style but it does leave huge question marks over the roles of Austin, Rodrigues and even Shane Long who never seem to be able to get onto the ball, their roles having been usurped by the wing-backs.

If Reed agreed to use Puel's system than surely he knows enough about football to have realised that we need different types of players up front to make it work? Otherwise we are as they say in a bug.gers muddle and only 11 days to sort it.

As for yesterday, Fonte was miles off the pace was clearly at fault (with Targett) with the first goal and Clasie just wasn't expecting to come on as early as he was asked to do so his lack of touch early on was understandable. Davis seems more and more bewildered by what is expected of him in the new system but he'll adapt as he always does.

No panic yet chaps, you may well see us stay the course better next weekend but still don't expect any more than a 1-0 win as it'll be another afternoon of 75%+ possession but inevitable banging our heads on a nine-man brick wall.

Now, my more considered next day reaction........hmmmmmm

We finished 6th with a decent team playing a system that suited it. That put us in amongst the best Premier teams however whilst most of them strengthened their team we lost two key players and a decent goal scorer. We then apart from replacing a reserve goalkeeper, brought in three, Hojbjerg-brilliant, Redmond - potential, Pied - if it's cheap it probably is hardly treading water.

 

The teams around us in the main retained their strength and added three or four better players. If we had retained our players we would still have been looking for the club to strengthen positions with the players that have come in. In my view we have slipped back strength wise.

 

Even worse I subscribe to the system suiting the players not shoehorning players into the new managers favourite system. He patently thinks meaningless possession statistics will translate into an unbeatable side by not allowing the opponents the ball. The diamond with attacking full backs has a major weakness, the space in the corners behind the advanced full backs. All three goals conceded have been conceded from there, two by crosses from our left corner and one a dubious penalty in the right corner.

 

Austin needs to be up front and centre doing what he is good at. Long is mobile mayhem, supporting Austin. Tadic, Redmond or Rodriguez wide. Hojbjerg, Romeu and Clasie with full backs whose primary job is defense. Cedric is a nice footballer on the ball, defends desperately but is awful when the ball is crossed from the right. Targett tries hard and is coming on but Bertrand is a class act. I don't buy into Pied as the answer on the strength of a couple of cameos late in games we were mostly attacking. Martina was a cheap option that probably did better than expected but now looks redundant. That doesn't translate in any way shape or form into a diamond.

Yes... but if we keep doing the same old things in the same old way inevitably we will come up with the same old results - compare the last two seasons to see the proof of that - so if we want to improve on what was achieved over the last two year's than we have to do something differently. It could be that Puel's new style is in theory a progression over the standard 4-3-3 mix used by Koeman but he has been put in the unenviable position of having to adapt the players he has at his disposal to his way of doing things and that will take time for some and be impossible for others. so we have to be patient and probably this season will disappoint many or indeed most as he rebuilds and remoulds our team. If Puel is hoping to build a Gunners Mark 2 down here few of us would want to condemn him for that although he should note how often Arsenal try and fail to walk the ball into the net and lose from dominant winning positions.

In view of all of this and bearing in mind the realities of life in Small 14 club, there is a perfectly plausible and acceptable argument to fans that says let's settle for what we've got as long as it is sustainable in which case why upset the whole bloody apple cart by bringing in a manager with completely different ideas but who will not be given the tools to do the job he wants to do?

The answer to that is probably that Reed has become a megalomaniac, losing sight of reality in his own conceit and belief of always getting things right. No doubt if this whole new venture fails it'll be Puel's fault and not his.

I know this is quite petty, but i was a bit gutted Puel made absolutely no attempt to acknowledge the fans. After sitting on a bus for 8 hours to get there it would have been a good opportunity to try and begin some sort of connection. Hopefully we do the talking on the pitch come next Saturday.

I know this is quite petty, but i was a bit gutted Puel made absolutely no attempt to acknowledge the fans. After sitting on a bus for 8 hours to get there it would have been a good opportunity to try and begin some sort of connection. Hopefully we do the talking on the pitch come next Saturday.

Very good and honest post match summary from Højbjerg

 

https://streamable.com/3cek

Sounds like a manager in the making to me. He speaks French, I'd have him helping Puel out and translating for him.

Watching the Arse at Leicester ... So similar in style to us last night

If Reed agreed to use Puel's system than surely he knows enough about football to have realised that we need different types of players up front to make it work? Otherwise we are as they say in a bug.gers muddle and only 11 days to sort it.

 

Indeed. And slightly odd that a club that seems reluctant to recruit new players recruited a manager that plays a system that requires new players.....to make. it. work.

Watching the Arse at Leicester ... So similar in style to us last night

Hey what really matters is time of possession, and we did win that at Old Trafford 57% -43%.

For those preaching possession football, Burnley beat Liverpool today with just 19% possession.

Yes... but if we keep doing the same old things in the same old way inevitably we will come up with the same old results - compare the last two seasons to see the proof of that - so if we want to improve on what was achieved over the last two year's than we have to do something differently. It could be that Puel's new style is in theory a progression over the standard 4-3-3 mix used by Koeman but he has been put in the unenviable position of having to adapt the players he has at his disposal to his way of doing things and that will take time for some and be impossible for others. so we have to be patient and probably this season will disappoint many or indeed most as he rebuilds and remoulds our team. If Puel is hoping to build a Gunners Mark 2 down here few of us would want to condemn him for that although he should note how often Arsenal try and fail to walk the ball into the net and lose from dominant winning positions.

 

In view of all of this and bearing in mind the realities of life in Small 14 club, there is a perfectly plausible and acceptable argument to fans that says let's settle for what we've got as long as it is sustainable in which case why upset the whole bloody apple cart by bringing in a manager with completely different ideas but who will not be given the tools to do the job he wants to do?

 

The answer to that is probably that Reed has become a megalomaniac, losing sight of reality in his own conceit and belief of always getting things right. No doubt if this whole new venture fails it'll be Puel's fault and not his.

I understand where you are coming from but every year we are having to rebuild, that is a hard enough thing to do in itself without then presenting the team with a new system that nobody plays in the Premier and the players struggle with. I would submit that a manager admitting surprise at the physicality of Watford is a manager not ready for the Premier. We don't need a manager that is ill prepared for the challenges but arrogant enough to think that his system and radical change is the answer. We needed to hit the ground running not struggling to work out how to play together.

I'm wondering if his mentor who doesn't play a diamond has put his thumb print on this. The same mentor that turned what was potentially the quickest wide player for years into a support player to come inside and be overlapped by a full back. Walcott was then moved inside and compared with Thierry Henry, how did that work out? I've heard something similarly stupid lately about Redmond.

For those preaching possession football, Burnley beat Liverpool today with just 19% possession.

Keeping clean sheets and scoring goals win matches not passing the bloody ball around going nowhere. We got our best results last season with the least possession and some of our worst results with the most possession. There's a lesson there for somebody.

we're all disappointed at the poor start, but looking at the League table you see that Leicester and Arsenal ..who finished 1st and 2nd respectively... also have just one point.

it's a long season with 36 games still to go ..........

I would submit that a manager admitting surprise at the physicality of Watford is a manager not ready for the Premier league

Keeping clean sheets and scoring goals win matches not passing the bloody ball around going nowhere.

We got our best results last season with the least possession and some of our worst results with the most possession. There's a lesson there for somebody.

Indeed we did . A closer look at those stats. would surprise quite a few people.

IMO we have gone for the cheap option in Puel as he was already free. We are too nice as a club and it is starting to show. We are nowhere near aggressive enough in the transfer market. All the other clubs don't care how we run our business if they want a player or manager they bloody go out and get em. They don't care if they píss people off. Look at Liverpool for christs sake.

It's about time we as a club grew some balls and played the game just like the other clubs.

Last night showed me a lot - we are very disjointed and are seriously lacking is quality. Losing the players we have done not help and it's not til they're gone do really realise it.

A lot of work to do. And I am yet to buy into the Puel way.

We are doomed i tell ya, doomed

2 games in and we are doomed

Just got back...

The biggest problem we had last night was being a bunch of shortarses. They had 4 very tall players who weren't afraid to get forward in open play and we only had 2 who could compete against them in the air from crosses. Romeu going off early didn't help with that, especially with Clasie being even shorter. The lack of height (especially up front) was the reason we weren't putting crosses in the air and the reason we were overplaying it around the area over and over again. Defensively Zlatan against Cedric at the far post with Valencia steaming into the box was the worst thing I saw all game - they didn't create much more than us even though we looked toothless but looked like they could score from any cross. The narrow midfield letting Shaw advance 50 yards unchallenged on occasion didn't help either.

We're too easy to defend against as well, because whilst an excellent left winger, Tadic isn't a number 10 and doesn't get the ball enough in the right areas or use it creatively enough, and defences know we've got no height and can just set up to defend against through balls. Going behind also means we haven't been able to catch teams on the counter either, which is what the current formation and personnel are most set up for.

Forster spent the entire first half kicking long and immediately conceding possession as none of our midfield could compete with Fellaini or Pogba in the air - eventually word got out to play it on the deck and we immediately got down the wing and slung a decent low cross into the box.

Hjobjerg still looks good though. I think I'd probably put Rodriguez up top to give us some variety in attack as he offers a bit of an aerial threat and so does Long to a lesser extent. Redmond is great on the break but just dribbles sideways when near the area in front of an established defence - in that sense he definitely isn't a Mane replacement.

Not that it means a lot or in fact anything but the Sun had Targett as our stand out player (7 out of 10). Everyone else played to exactly the same standard and got 6 out of 10 each.

The Sun's ratings are well into their 4th decade of being comical.