Balanced reflections on the transfer window - no arguments allowed!

Change is disruption and disruption takes time. Time is not what the paying punter wants to give, who is continually asked to pay more. The signings on paper seem excellent, but the constant rebuilding is tiring. We have already had the players to win the premier league and once again we are pruned by the wealthy.

 

We are a model football club and getting stronger year on year, but the feeling of what might have been hangs heavy in the air.

 

We March On!

I would describe myself as a realistic optimist who suffers from situational moments of pessimism!

 

My thoughts;

 

- GKs......we are probably better off, I like the little I've seen of McCarthy in the past and he's a good age to be here a while.

- DEFENDERS....after the injury to Pied I think we are in a state of equilibrium here. This is though where I think we are most vulnerable to injuries and suspensions. Imagine the (unlikely) scenario where our defence is McCarthy, Targett, Martina, Yoshida and Gardos or Stephens!!

- MIDFIELDERS.....One in one out. Right now probably worse BUT I am certain Hojbjerg will be far far better than Wanyama. This is a big season for Romeu, Clasie and JWP. Depending on how it goes this could be the area we need 2-3 replacements next summer unfortunately.

- ATTACKERS......Two out two in. I really like Redmond, and if the coach who Thiery Henry credits with converting him from a winger to more of a striker or at least coached the skills to become so, sees similar traits in Redmond then that's a great thing. Boufal looks like a fantastic signing and regardless of his delayed season start I'm sure we will be loving him before too long. JRod needs to have a good season as does Austin but I believe they will both hit double figures. I actually think Long will have a slightly less impactful season. But we do have good options.

- MANAGER......I like him, I think he fits our ethos well. Generally he stays in places for quite a while and clearly is focussed on development, which whether our fans like it or not, the sustainable growth and success of Saints is centred on this to produce our results, as opposed to simply focussing on results with no concern for the future. Clearly we need a win sooner rather than later but he has good experience.

- REED.....Surprisingly quiet this summer but proving our processes are in good shape. I suspect we went for one or two others but it seems like this transfer window was tougher for everyone. I like the fact we appear to stick to our principles rather than compromise our standards and bring a player who perhaps doesn't hit enough indicators to be much higher on the list, just to get a body in!

- YOUNGSTERS.....I think the pipeline has slowed down but anticipate it will speed up again over the next 18 months. I've not seen a ought of Isgrove to suggest to me he will make it with us but from things I've read perhaps Puel does. I really like the look of Olefema, strong, quick, skill full and can finish. I think he may well be the next one to get into the first team squad. Valery looks technically sound but perhaps a little lightweight so we will see how he develops. Alfie Jones from the handful of games I have seen looks pretty good at CB, about time we produced a decent one of those!

 

Prediction / hopes for the season;

 

League.....8-12th. Satisfactory

Europe......2nd in group behind Inter....Quarters

FA Cup......Quarters

League Cup.....lose in Round of 16

EFL Trophy.......god knows!!

 

Overall I predict some bumpy patches compared to the last couple of seasons, mainly because other teams in particular the "big boys" have significantly strengthened, but also because or Europe but I am sure the style of our football will be one we all enjoy watching.

 

 

 

 

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Leicester and Everyone both lost their most valuable players this Summer????

Lukaku, Mahrez and Vardy????

I think this season will be decent in the eyes of outsiders, but underwhelming in ours. even finishing 10-12th would be a success given the points we'll drop while adjusting to the diamond. but IMO its acceptable if we could surprise ourselves and get Wembley in the cups/ semis or maybe even final of Europa.

 

my hopes are peuls formation works out and suddenly our players enjoy being on the pitch and we start demolishing lesser teams and we get that fear factor back even amongst the big teams, we finish 8-10th and get Wembley in the cups and quarter finals in the Europa.

 

my fears are players turn on puel upon realizing his tactics aren't gonna work and can't get behind him due to him being uninspiring and his non-existant charisma, so we're forced to sack him to save our season and we descend into turmoil and we're forced to hire some fat Sam like dinosaur who's a relegation scrap expert and we finish 2 points above Sunderland who finish 18th.

We all know that there are at least three sides in the discussions about the transfer window:

 

* The optimists who believe that this has been a brilliant window and the club can do no wrong. They hate the pessimists and cannot accept that there can be any concerns about the way the club is run.

* The pessimists who believe the club is in complete meltdown, owned by self-serving profiteers who are part of a conspiracy to destroy Southampton Football Club. They hate optimists and cannot accept that the club have done anything right in the transfer window.

* The realists who expected and would have liked a bit more out of this transfer window but can see both good and bad in it. The can't stand the arguments between the optimists and pessimists and wish they would just shut up so we can concentrate on what is really happening (or not happening).

 

Of course there are various shades of grey between each of these positions.

 

If you are an extreme optimist or an extreme pessimist this probably isn't the thread for you. Nevertheless, you don't need to be a pure realist to contribute - but let's try to avoid the arguments of other threads shall we?! Thanks!

 

So... having said all of that, what are your reflections on this transfer window? What was good and what was bad?

 

I will start...

 

* I like the look of many of the players we have brought in.

* I am concerned at the players we have lost.

* I am concerned at the loss of Koeman and, while it felt like the right appointment at first, I have yet to be convinced that Puel will turn out to be the right manager for us.

* Nevertheless, I have had my reservations about each of the managers we have appointed during the Liebbherr era (apart from Pardew) and each time I have been proven wrong.

* I don't believe we will win anything this season, nor do I think we will qualify for Europe.

* I think we should (hopefully) be strong enough to avoid relegation but I'm concerened that we may not be totally confident about this until quite late in the season.

* I think the club will be disappointed at our league position at Christmas and will be forced to make further unplanned steps in the transfer market.

* I do think there may be a longer term strategy at play here, which could work out to be inspirational as long as we can steer clear of relegation.

* I think we could, if things go to plan in that longer term strategy, potentially see a steady building up of Saints status and league standing over forthcoming seasons built on greater squad/transfer stability which will hopefully see us surpass our recent success.

* I think we will also see Saints re-establish itself as a hot bed of international youth development.

* I think next summer will see less players leaving Saints, because long contracts will make them too expensive for other clubs.

* Nevertheless, I do think there is a risk that some players may become unsettled at a sense that the club seems to lack ambition and does not seem to provide any prospect of silverware.

 

OK - so what do you think? Feel free to disagree with other's opinions but let's do so constructively rather than by arguing. Thanks!

 

I've been an optimist for years, predicted promotion from league 1, predicted promotion from championship.... expected us to be a recognised top 8 team within a few years of being promoted, and I told anyone who would listen that lambert and lallana would play for england before we even got to the prem.... so yes, whilst I was probably a very cocky and annoying person at that time, I'm also a "realist" as you have termed us. The simple fact is that on the back of our best season since LM, where we also got CL, were the second best form team in 2016, have banked years of record revenues and profits.... we have once again torn the whole team and management up and started again. Not only that, but the players we've sold and purchased make us immediately weaker. No other team does this, and there was no basis or excuse for it this summer. So its been a poor transfer window. Don't get me wrong, I think Redmond, Boufal and PEH are class players. But Fonte is older and isn't happy (his performances have been appalling by his standards), Mane was able to beat teams single handedly and did frequently (redmond and boufal cant), no one in the team comes close to the CDM stopping machine that wanyama was. PEH and Romeu may be technically better.... but so much worse defensively. And our strikeforce is simply worse. We have 1 goal Austin as our Pelle replacement. Its not what we've sold, its the fact that we've made another profit but weakened the team, weakened the quality of football and the results we'll get and shown once again to the paying fans that the boards No.1 objective is a bank balance as far in the black as they can get away with. Its a shame that teams like Leicester, West Ham etc can keep their stars and improve their teams... That bournemouth can pay a loanee 80k... and yet last summer we offered one of our key right backs (clyne) 25k. It is all very disappointing for those amongst us who believe the club can push onwards. Its also perfect for those on here that delight in ramming home the glass ceiling negativity and revelling in it. Something that surely is the biggest source of angst amongst many on here.

 

Its been a poor window and makes a mockery of the club saying we always have a plan. Tottenham almost ended the window with Morgan, wanyama, Toby.

Leicester and Everyone both lost their most valuable players this Summer????

 

1 each

 

We did well to keep ours to 3

Lukaku, Mahrez and Vardy????

 

Stones and Kante. Vardy was only worth £20m, no idea what Lukaku is worth but Chelsea didn't want to pay the £65m Everyone wanted, so I would guess it's similar to Stones. Arsenal wouldn't pay £40m for Mahrez.

1 each

 

We did well to keep ours to 3

 

So, the point was they were able to keep their most valuable players. They weren't.

 

Pelle and Wanyama certainly weren't on the most valuable list.

Stones and Kante. Vardy was only worth £20m, no idea what Lukaku is worth but Chelsea didn't want to pay the £65m Everyone wanted, so I would guess it's similar to Stones. Arsenal wouldn't pay £40m for Mahrez.

So they are only the most valuable players if they are sold lol

Far from the disaster some would have you believe, but ultimately we haven't strengthened the team, at best we've been happy to pretty much stand still (and get overtaken); realistically, we're weaker today than we were when the season ended in May.

 

It's hard to feel too chipper about that outcome. Especially when people were so affronted at Koeman's exit for more "ambitious" climes. Regardless of Everton's laughable attempts to appeal to quality players with odes to dugouts, Saints' limited ambition has been somewhat borne out in this window.

 

The signings of Boufal, Hojbjerg and Redmond are decent business, in my opinion. Whether they're sufficient to replace the departed quality from the first XI remains to be seen. But even if they were to seamlessly pick up where the splitters left off, the team had shortcomings in defence and midfield last season that have remained unaddressed.

 

And I can't see - no matter how hard I try - Charlie Austin, who wasn't good enough to play ahead of Pelle last season and looks out of shape and lost thus far, being anything other than a big downgrade in a key position. I doubt Italy would pick him to clean the bins let alone lead the line. I worry that we're going to be short on goals.

 

As always, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, but I think we're in for a bumpy season and with unused money in the bank for strengthening, that seems like a self inflicted state of affairs, unfortunately.

thats how I see it. We have to get on with it now and try and supprt the club.

Leicester and Everton have put to bed that you cant keep your best players.

 

Agreed! After winning the league Leicester were a huge target for the vultures.... Could have easily lost 5 or 6 this summer. They lost Kante due to his release clause (£30m release clause having bought him for £5m just 12 months earlier).

 

Likewise Everton have lost one of the top players but kept hold of others including Lukaku which is massive.

 

Clubs like us, Leicester, Everton can probably afford to lose one player each season - our insistence on selling 3 or 4 each year is what will eventually break us.

So they are only the most valuable players if they are sold lol

 

A player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them, surely? Otherwise I'd definitely say VVD is more valuable than Mane.

1 each

 

We did well to keep ours to 3

 

you are classing Pelle as one of our most valuable players now... really?

you are classing Pelle as one of our most valuable players now... really?

 

Regardless of what I think of him and his abilities. He was a fixture in our side even when Austin was here.

 

Selling 3-5 first team players every summer is not the actions of a "model club"

Doubt any other forums would suggest we are

Agreed! After winning the league Leicester were a huge target for the vultures.... Could have easily lost 5 or 6 this summer. They lost Kante due to his release clause (£30m release clause having bought him for £5m just 12 months earlier).

 

Likewise Everton have lost one of the top players but kept hold of others including Lukaku which is massive.

 

Clubs like us, Leicester, Everton can probably afford to lose one player each season - our insistence on selling 3 or 4 each year is what will eventually break us.

Pelle was getting on a bit and wasn't a 20 goal a season striker, Vic we got 3 years out of him and will be a missed as a brick wall, hopefully Romeu can fill the void. I would say Mane was the only top top player we sold and we seem to have replaced him well with a younger version, breaking our transfer record. Everton sold their top young defender and brought in a 31 year old for 10m. Leicester have Champs league so will always be able to employ well but if they don't finish in Europe next year then watch 3-4 of their better players leave.

Agreed! After winning the league Leicester were a huge target for the vultures.... Could have easily lost 5 or 6 this summer. They lost Kante due to his release clause (£30m release clause having bought him for £5m just 12 months earlier).

 

Likewise Everton have lost one of the top players but kept hold of others including Lukaku which is massive.

 

Clubs like us, Leicester, Everton can probably afford to lose one player each season - our insistence on selling 3 or 4 each year is what will eventually break us.

 

Lol...In truth there was only 2 players other clubs tried to buy..Kante and Vardy and one left....the best one....dress it up how you like but that is it

A player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them, surely? Otherwise I'd definitely say VVD is more valuable than Mane.

But they kept them, they priced them so that they wouldnt be sold.

Lol...In truth there was only 2 players other clubs tried to buy..Kante and Vardy and one left....the best one....dress it up how you like but that is it

are you saying Arsenal didnt try and buy Mahrez and Chelsea werent interested in Lukaku??

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10561129/what-did-your-premier-league-club-spend-during-the-transfer-window

 

enough said really

Does anyone feel just a little bit complicit in a rather hysterical media-and-fan circus about deadline day signings and the whole window thing? Past experience suggests that it's often the clubs that bring in large numbers of players who struggle (e.g. Norwich), and flag-waving investments prove duffers (just one of many examples: Niasse for £13.5m to Everton in January; not worthy of even a shirt number in August).

Regardless of what I think of him and his abilities. He was a fixture in our side even when Austin was here.

 

Selling 3-5 first team players every summer is not the actions of a "model club"

Doubt any other forums would suggest we are

 

I wonder how much you would have whinged next summer had we kept Wanyama and Pelle, only for them to walk out for free???? I bet you would say something along the lines of it not being the actions of a model club.

But they kept them, they priced them so that they wouldnt be sold.

 

But we didn't lose our most valuable player, did we?

Regardless of what I think of him and his abilities. He was a fixture in our side even when Austin was here.

 

Selling 3-5 first team players every summer is not the actions of a "model club"

Doubt any other forums would suggest we are

 

LOL don't know if you are coming or going really do you.....

are you saying Arsenal didnt try and buy Mahrez and Chelsea werent interested in Lukaku??

 

Yes, they were, but they decided they weren't worth that much, and so looks like they weren't those clubs most valuable players. That's my point.

LOL don't know if you are coming or going really do you.....

 

I do. We sell 3-5 first team players every summer

 

No other club in the premier league does that like we do

But we didn't lose our most valuable player, did we?

Well it depends who you believe is/was our most valuable player. If you think that had an offer of £35m come in for VVD we wouldnt have sold I would say you would be wrong. So yes we did sell our most valuable player, IMHO

http://www.football365.com/news/transfer-window-winners-and-losers-3

 

Southampton

Only time will tell, but Southampton have repeated that same old trick of conducting their business quietly and efficiently. More key individuals were lost this summer, including their manager, two main goal threats and midfield powerhouse, but the performances of Nathan Redmond and Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg so far are cause for optimism. Add a club-record signing in Sofiane Boufal, and while Saints are unlikely to continue their remarkable record of improving their league position in six successive seasons, they should again be proud of their business.

are you saying Arsenal didnt try and buy Mahrez and Chelsea werent interested in Lukaku??

 

There was speculation only, whereas the only concrete offers made were by Chelsea and Arsenal,

unless you are one of those that believe all this "Sky sources understand" of this "xyz player is linked" horse sh ite

 

Mahrez and Vardy signed new deals like Forster,VVD,Tadic etc...

Well it depends who you believe is/was our most valuable player. If you think that had an offer of £35m come in for VVD we wouldnt have sold I would say you would be wrong. So yes we did sell our most valuable player, IMHO

 

That's fine, you think VVD is worth less than £35m. Personally, I think he's worth more than that.

1 each

 

We did well to keep ours to 3

 

you are classing Pelle as one of our most valuable players now... really?

 

Proof that the loon only likes players who are not at sfc...

That's fine, you think VVD is worth less than £35m. Personally, I think he's worth more than that.

 

Looking at the window, I think mane is worth more than £34m, personally

I don't necessarily have a problem with selling players, particularly if they're pushing hard for a move or we get a huge offer.

Looking at the window, I think mane is worth more than £34m, personally

 

Personally, I don't think any footballer is worth the prices that are paid for and to them. This is the problem with spouting anything about a players 'value', because the only tangible value is their transfer fee. Everything else is an opinion.

 

We also promised we'd sell him this summer for that amount after last Summers transfer window.

Looking at the window, I think mane is worth more than £34m, personally

 

How much would you say he is worth?

 

I believe that the add ons are very easy to meet and we will get the £38.5m. Is that acceptable? And also, you have to factor in that he was paid for in advance and not in instalments. And what about a sell on clause? Do you know how much that might be?

I'm content.

 

Our position is that our stars will be poached, if they weren't then it would mean we have a mediocre side. Delighted that we have retained Fonte, my favourite player and I certainly do not grudge him an improved contract while is at the apex of his career given the performances he has given in our colours.

 

Of the replacements we have signed, two have been our brightest lights so far: Hojbjerg and Redmond. I really look forward to seeing how Boufal does. Given the lot we have I gain a lot of joy in seeing new names come in and seeing what they can do.

 

Looking forward to how the rest of the season goes.

Edited 1 September, 2016 by Colinjb

I don't understand what people have against Redmond. If he was Spanish or something, would people be happier? I suspect that they might for some reason.

Lukaku, Mahrez and Vardy????

 

You can add Drinkwater to that.

You can add Drinkwater to that.

 

Did anyone realy bid for him, or is it just the "linked with ballacks"

I don't understand what people have against Redmond. If he was Spanish or something, would people be happier? I suspect that they might for some reason.

 

Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

Well the "no arguments" idea was a nice one, but it didn't last long.

Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

 

If all else fails.....

How much would you say he is worth?

 

I believe that the add ons are very easy to meet and we will get the £38.5m. Is that acceptable? And also, you have to factor in that he was paid for in advance and not in instalments. And what about a sell on clause? Do you know how much that might be?

 

Significantly more than a player from the championship who was woeful last season in standing around watching his side get relegated.

Well the "no arguments" idea was a nice one, but it didn't last long.

Send them to the naughty step. ?

 

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Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

 

Dickhead

Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

 

 

Might I suggest you go away and return once you've had a good, hard look at yourself. Assuming the reflection has changed you? This is a not the comment of someone who is rational.

Not a pop at you in an unconfrontational thread but why do we group the last 7 seasons under a supposed strategy which is only really 2 years in maturity? The two L1 campaigns, the Championship and first two seasons in the prem based on a completely differen't dynamic which was largely based on player retention and gradual improvement.

 

100% this.

Back to the purpose of the "Fred" lol....

 

The signings look good, definitely all 4 have real potential to be v good.

Wasn't convinced by the Puel appointment but based upon what I have read of his teams I am prepared to give him a a bit of time.

Think the squad is slightly weaker than last year.

Think the window has been an opportunity wasted to further strengthen the squad.(CB especially)

Overall for us was disappointed with the window.

But for the premier league it's quite exciting with some potentially great new players in the league(including Boufal and Hojbjerg)

I think if we don't get a win in the next two Puel will be massively under pressure already.

Don't like the diamond system but again I can't change it so will see how it goes and I hope we start playing with style using it.

Don't think we will come close to last years finish and think we will be replaced by Everton as best of the rest as RK knows how to get results.

Don't think we will be under any threat of relegation

Can't see us buying in Jan unless forced to by injuries.. I think we will be out of Europe by then and with only the league (and not in threat of relegation or a threat to top 6) to focus on there will be nothing to strengthen for. Unless we buy a replacement for someone who will leave in the summer.

I will enjoy Europe, win or lose!

Looking forward to seeing Boufal.

Looking forward to seeing some good new players for other teams too!

Edit

Judging by the people that have a problem, it's probably because he's not caucasian.

 

Any argument you had has gone out of the window with that comment!!.

 

Unbelievable!..........................Jeff!.

Does anyone feel just a little bit complicit in a rather hysterical media-and-fan circus about deadline day signings and the whole window thing? Past experience suggests that it's often the clubs that bring in large numbers of players who struggle (e.g. Norwich), and flag-waving investments prove duffers (just one of many examples: Niasse for £13.5m to Everton in January; not worthy of even a shirt number in August).

 

This