Virgil Transfer Rumours - Summer 17

Cundy - is that the one who bigs up being an ex Chelsea player when he hardly distinguished himself there or anywhere else?

I didn't realise BT had decided not to bid next time round. Why the U-turn? Has it not paid off? With Sky struggling, I'd of thought one more Prem deal in BT's pocket and it could pave the end for SKY.

 

Domestic tv income is £1.8b a season, whilst foreign is £1b a season, so I'd say there is quite a bit of foreign money for TV rights.

Yep - about the size of it. A lot paid and not enough return in terms of increased revenue and profit (via increased subscription). Also BT has other pressing issues - Ofcom on it's back, separation from Open Reach, Pension fund, Italy scandal etc. etc., all whilst the top man is p*****g away money on fancy projects (BT is not a broadcaster - it only got in to BT sports to increase it's broadband customer base and it has not worked). The EE purchase has been a spectacular success in comparison, so the message from the board / shareholders is clear - stick to what you know best. Still a long way before the next deal, so who knows as things change quickly.

As for the foreign TV deals - you may well be right - not really an area I know too much about. I guess they price the rights according to what the market can support (in Ireland's case, not much), as this does not affect live attendances or domestic deals - every £ is icing on top.

Liverpool will only bid if Southampton ask them to...

 

Easy for them to say now they've tapped him up and turned his head already.

 

Utter ****s.

Makes sense for the club to come out and publicly state they will not entertain Liverpool or anyone else's bid this year even if it repeats itself. Get VVD into realising he has no choice but to stay and get on with it.

Makes sense for the club to come out and publicly state they will not entertain Liverpool or anyone else's bid this year even if it repeats itself. Get VVD into realising he has no choice but to stay and get on with it.

Which is fine but as usual it drags on for too long, by the time this is resolved 1st Sept we will of played 4 games without him.

He will then probably need 2 weeks to get his head back from Liverpool depending on the postal service. Once that's been re attached he will need to get match fit another 2 weeks.

Sell the **** now along with the other two that won't be here come end of August and try and start the season with players in place not beginning of sept

Sell the **** now along with the other two that won't be here come end of August and try and start the season with players in place not beginning of sept

Agree that if we are going to sell we should do it now, not **** around waiting for the transfer window deadline. Give the manager a chance to spend the money.

Agree that if we are going to sell we should do it now, not **** around waiting for the transfer window deadline. Give the manager a chance to spend the money.

It's okay as long as someone actually wants to buy him now which I suspect they don't.

It will definitely drag on to September unfortunately.

It's okay as long as someone actually wants to buy him now which I suspect they don't.

It will definitely drag on to September unfortunately.

Well the club don't have to sell so if they let it drag on to the deadline then it is their own fault.

If John Stones can go for 50m then 70m for VVD is not overpriced.

I actually did say that .....

I know it will seem obscene, but if we stopped paying him his basic wage we would be breaking our contract with him. However, he will lose out on extra bonuses, that are written in that contract.

He could use that to claim that his contract (which is our biggest hold on him and the situation) is null and void. With good legal reps (expensive) he could also claim he is a free agent. Under the Contract of Employment Act, and the European Directive of Work, a tainted (and his contract would be tainted if his claim were upheld in a tribunal) contract of employment would be unlawful. That would rob us (and Celtic) of any transfer fee and he would be free to negoiate a contract (with an enormous signing fee) with anyone of his choice.

 

Now it would hard to prove to any court, but unfortunately, it would not be a court of law that rules on this, it would be a Tribunal. Tribunals, unlike courts, do not have come to decision by the burden of proof or evidence, it only has to decide by the likelyhood of truth. In other words the Tribunal is only interested in whether the evidence of the defendant(complainent) is likely to have occurred.

 

Btw...... As far as I know there has been no precedent for such a case, least not in the 20 years I was union legal rep, and none since I retired 18 years ago....but it could happen easily with good, and expensive, legal representation.

There's alway a sharp one out there !

The standard premier league contract includes provisions for fining players for misconduct. It includes appeals procedures. I assume that players have been fined in the past and appealed that decision successfully. Undoubtedly, that did not result in the voiding of their contract. In other words, so long as the club didn't just stop paying him, there would be a way to recover a significant part of the money it pays him without voiding the contract.

The Sun don't hate Liverpool.

 

Liverpool hates The Sun. It was only Colin Murray that was principled enough to resign when they bought the station. The rest of the scouse mafia, Quinn, Murphy, Evans and the utter cvnt Parry are only too happy to take The Dirty Diggers money.

This. Collymore also left, but not sure if that was out of principle or because they chose not to renew his contract. Really doesn't surprise me that "Mr Liverpool" Quinn didn't bat an eyelid.

Good to see the press all agreeing tonight that VvD is either definitely / maybe / absolutely not of interest to Chelsea.

Good to see the press all agreeing tonight that VvD is either definitely / maybe / absolutely not of interest to Chelsea.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-expect-up-to-four-summer-signings-but-abandon-chase-for-southamptons-virgil-van-dijk-a3595086.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-expect-up-to-four-summer-signings-but-abandon-chase-for-southamptons-virgil-van-dijk-a3595086.html

It's basically an exercise in creative writing:

Chelsea will be prepared to move again for Van Dijk if Southampton are ready to sell.

Van Dijk, the Southampton defender, is understood to not be a top priority at this stage but Chelsea are continuing to monitor the situation and could make a bid before the transfer window closes.

Which is fine but as usual it drags on for too long, by the time this is resolved 1st Sept we will of played 4 games without him.

He will then probably need 2 weeks to get his head back from Liverpool depending on the postal service. Once that's been re attached he will need to get match fit another 2 weeks.

Sell the **** now along with the other two that won't be here come end of August and try and start the season with players in place not beginning of sept

I know its piddling money down the drain, so what if we have gone 4 games without him then another 4 games while he gets his head out of his backside, why the bloody hell should he just breeze into the team, "oh he's the best centre back we have got" - absolute cobblers!! Right now he is the worst centre back we have - he didn't get on the plane to France as a fully fit squad member because he wants out. What are Maya and Jack going to think when they are dropped just to let him back in, and don't say "neither of them are premier league standard"........ absolute horse poo!! Someone posted a stat last night about the number of points with VVD in the team then Stephens in the team, the stat was marginally in favour of VVD but seeing as we couldn't be bothered to score a flipping goal in the last 5+ games it was hardly a surprise the stat fell like that. VVD and Fonte were good the previous season probably down to the fact that they were playing behind Wanyama sized defensive midfield. 2-0 down at half time against the bindippers Ronald wheels out Victor after his ban, on the match day uncovered things Saints do Orighi and Sturridge are ambling out of their dressing room as Victor steps out suited and booted to play the second half you couldnt miss the sudden stop to their giggling.

I think it's time we let one of these militant buggers stew for a bit, just remember he only cost us £12m not Walker or Stones £50m, so the only pain in the bottom are his wages.

Just as a final aside:

Liverpool in tapping up that lad from Stokes academy in the process they have absolutely, stuffed up that kids life, and his parents with it, because right now the lad is not with anyone because Stoke hold his papers and no team will buy his papers off them............ can't blame them "will he be tempted again".

Be funny if they buggered up a full professional by their underhand tactics.

The standard premier league contract includes provisions for fining players for misconduct. It includes appeals procedures. I assume that players have been fined in the past and appealed that decision successfully. Undoubtedly, that did not result in the voiding of their contract. In other words, so long as the club didn't just stop paying him, there would be a way to recover a significant part of the money it pays him without voiding the contract.

Yes, every company has a disciplinary procedure for every employee as long as he/she has worked there 13 weeks. Football is no different. The procedure will provide the circumstances they can be 'fined', or to pay for 'damages' and how much. As we are dealing with a football player we can assume the clubs procedure, agreed with the PFA, allows for fines and suspensions as sanctions for breaches of their contracts.

But those fines must not exceed their 'Basic Pay'. Most players basic pay is about 50% of their actual wage. The rest are bonuses and incentives including image rights etc.

So he can only be fined up to the value of those add ons. Club suspensions can only be up to 36 weeks (still on Basic pay) depending on the severity of the breach of the club rules.

Suspensions and fines can only be imposed by a director of the club after a disciplinary hearing where the player is afforded a defence of his choice from within the club, his agent, or the area legal rep of the PFA...

Appeals are to the DWP's Employment Tribunal.

If John Stones can go for 50m then 70m for VVD is not overpriced.

It is a kind of tactic for Liverpool to reduce the price for VVD. Never make any official bids but unsettle our players from behind, and now say that we do not make any bid until we are invited to do so, and then waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting Saints to beg Liverpool to make a bid for a player who has refused to play for Saints. It worked for Lovren, Lallana and so on. In the next few weeks, different columns will say 70m is overpriced, 30m may be enough, Liverpool have other alternatives which are better and much cheapers.

On the other hand, you see Swansea have rejected successive bids from Everton and Leciester for Gylfi Sigurdsson up to 40m. Is it a more proper way of doing business? If I were the management, I would have pursued the complaint all the way as damage has already done!

It is a kind of tactic for Liverpool to reduce the price for VVD. Never make any official bids but unsettle our players from behind, and now say that we do not make any bid until we are invited to do so, and then waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting Saints to beg Liverpool to make a bid for a player who has refused to play for Saints. It worked for Lovren, Lallana and so on. In the next few weeks, different columns will say 70m is overpriced, 30m may be enough, Liverpool have other alternatives which are better and much cheapers.

 

On the other hand, you see Swansea have rejected successive bids from Everton and Leciester for Gylfi Sigurdsson up to 40m. Is it a more proper way of doing business? If I were the management, I would have pursued the complaint all the way as damage has already done!

well as you point out we haven't had any bids for VVD so we can hardly turn them down like Swansea have with Sigurdsson.

to be honest the Gylfi Sigurdsson saga doesn't sound much different to the VVD one

Everton are attempting to add the 27-year-old to their growing list of expensive summer recruits having long made obvious their eagerness to sign the No.10.

While no formal bid has been lodged, the Toffees are trying to turn Sigurdsson's head with their interest – but are unwilling to match Swansea's valuation of their twice-running player of the year.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/swansea-city-hit-back-everton-13308124

Yes, every company has a disciplinary procedure for every employee as long as he/she has worked there 13 weeks. Football is no different. The procedure will provide the circumstances they can be 'fined', or to pay for 'damages' and how much. As we are dealing with a football player we can assume the clubs procedure, agreed with the PFA, allows for fines and suspensions as sanctions for breaches of their contracts.

But those fines must not exceed their 'Basic Pay'. Most players basic pay is about 50% of their actual wage. The rest are bonuses and incentives including image rights etc.

So he can only be fined up to the value of those add ons. Club suspensions can only be up to 36 weeks (still on Basic pay) depending on the severity of the breach of the club rules.

Suspensions and fines can only be imposed by a director of the club after a disciplinary hearing where the player is afforded a defence of his choice from within the club, his agent, or the area legal rep of the PFA...

Appeals are to the DWP's Employment Tribunal.

Is there an internet link you can provide me with this information (or even more). This is not me doubting you. This is me wanting to do more research.

It is a kind of tactic for Liverpool to reduce the price for VVD. Never make any official bids but unsettle our players from behind, and now say that we do not make any bid until we are invited to do so, and then waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting Saints to beg Liverpool to make a bid for a player who has refused to play for Saints. It worked for Lovren, Lallana and so on. In the next few weeks, different columns will say 70m is overpriced, 30m may be enough, Liverpool have other alternatives which are better and much cheapers.

 

Hell will freeze over before Virgil would be sold for any sum even remotely close to £30 million, as we are not desperate to sell him to Scousehampton or indeed anbyody else. Liverpool don't seem to have identified any alternative CBs who are better and cheaper than him, or else they would already have signed one, rather than holding out to get Virgil at a record fee.

It is gradually becoming clear to the Scouse supporting media, that Liverpool have shot their bolt and it was way off target. This campaign of whispers in the media to turn Virgil's head in their direction went too far when Klopp made a bad mistake in tapping him up and now he has prevented Liverpool from making any offer for Virgil unless Saints sanction it, which they won't.

Saints are playing a blinder in letting the likes of Scousehampton and Chelski believe that they can get him, simultaneously disrupting their plans to get other players in until the situation with Virgil is clarified.

I become more and more confident that Virgil will not go to Liverpool under any circumstances. He may go to Chelski or abroad, but hopefully only for £70 million +. Otherwise, I believe that we will be happy to keep him and have him play one more season once he has realised that he and his agent have cocked his move up and that his best option is now to buckle down and maintain his value by proving that he is an exceptional defender worth his fee.

If the reports of Chelsea still having interest in VvD, Bertrand or Cedric are true, I would be doing what I can to get Andreas Christensen in as part of the deal.

If the reports of Chelsea still having interest in VvD, Bertrand or Cedric are true, I would be doing what I can to get Andreas Christensen in as part of the deal.

Why, do think that its a given that they will go then?

RAWK seem to have it in their heads that we should be delighted with Chelsea's renewed interest because what we want is a bidding war. Sure, NOW we want a bidding war, but that wasn't the case at the start of the summer. We wanted to keep him as our captain and best player - it is the blatant tapping up actions of Liverpool and Klopp that have made his position at this club untenable. Not to say that we'll be letting him go on the cheap even if a bid from Chelsea doesn't materialise, his contract situation hasn't changed and we'll get very close to the £70 million we want, even if he does put in a transfer request. I don't care if his heart or his head or his ballsack are in Liverpool, Barcelona or Bognor bloody Regis, if we don't get the money, he's here for another season at least!

Personally I'd be delighted if he goes to Chelsea. I think he'd go with the blessing of virtually every Saints fan if that were to happen. At Chelsea he has a chance of winning things...

The whole tapping up situation in general needs looking at IMO. I'm sure all clubs do it to some degree, but Liverpool were the ones caught with their pants down doing it, and rules need tightening to stop it happening, especially for players with 5 years left on their contracts. Granted something as simple as a bid from one club to another can be enough to turn a player's head, but secret meetings with another club's manager or other member of staff needs to be outlawed.

His position isn't 'untenable', nor is he 'on strike' from what we've been told. Of course it could be downplaying by the club but it's been the manager's decision to leave him out of any team duties because he's 'not 100% psychologically', that isn't the same as him refusing to do anything. If the transfer window closes and he is still with us then in my opinion he will get his head down and play just as well as he always has done, as Schneiderlin and Wanyama have done before him. He's just playing the transfer game on his part, not many players genuinely would waste a year of their short career sitting around doing nothing, potentially jeopardising a move in the future. Let's see what happens before we start giving the impression we wouldn't back him.

His position isn't 'untenable', nor is he 'on strike' from what we've been told. Of course it could be downplaying by the club but it's been the manager's decision to leave him out of any team duties because he's 'not 100% psychologically', that isn't the same as him refusing to do anything. If the transfer window closes and he is still with us then in my opinion he will get his head down and play just as well as he always has done, as Schneiderlin and Wanyama have done before him. He's just playing the transfer game on his part, not many players genuinely would waste a year of their short career sitting around doing nothing, potentially jeopardising a move in the future. Let's see what happens before we start giving the impression we wouldn't back him.

It's a bit of both. He's refusing to play but is happy to train. MoPe took the decision then to leave him out of squad training. He's on strike though with regards to playing matches.

His position isn't 'untenable', nor is he 'on strike' from what we've been told. Of course it could be downplaying by the club but it's been the manager's decision to leave him out of any team duties because he's 'not 100% psychologically', that isn't the same as him refusing to do anything. If the transfer window closes and he is still with us then in my opinion he will get his head down and play just as well as he always has done, as Schneiderlin and Wanyama have done before him. He's just playing the transfer game on his part, not many players genuinely would waste a year of their short career sitting around doing nothing, potentially jeopardising a move in the future. Let's see what happens before we start giving the impression we wouldn't back him.

Not quite true though. He said he isn't available to play - effectively going on strike. The manager had no choice but to exclude him:

“The boy said that he is not available to play because he wants to leave. This is the decision. I had to say, ‘If you don’t want to be involved because you don’t feel okay then you have to train alone until this period of time is over.

Why, do think that its a given that they will go then?

If they come in for any one of them (with an acceptable offer), then yes.

I can't see all 3 leaving in one window though.

If they come in for any one of them (with an acceptable offer), then yes.

 

I can't see all 3 leaving in one window though.

But we have said we are not selling our top players

As Morgan found out , just because you look good playing for Saints it doesn't mean you will even get to play for a BIG new team ...... so financial gain but career suicide ? Matt Le Tissier knew which side of his bread was buttered , unlike er that bloke who went to Arsenal for £500000 whose name is on the tip ....

As Morgan found out , just because you look good playing for Saints it doesn't mean you will even get to play for a BIG new team ...... so financial gain but career suicide ? Matt Le Tissier knew which side of his bread was buttered , unlike er that bloke who went to Arsenal for £500000 whose name is on the tip ....

Steve Williams?

As Morgan found out , just because you look good playing for Saints it doesn't mean you will even get to play for a BIG new team ...... so financial gain but career suicide ? Matt Le Tissier knew which side of his bread was buttered , unlike er that bloke who went to Arsenal for £500000 whose name is on the tip ....

Lets be honest - Virgil will have no trouble establishing himself at Liverpool or any other top club for that matter. It certainly won't be career suicide for him

This. Collymore also left, but not sure if that was out of principle or because they chose not to renew his contract. Really doesn't surprise me that "Mr Liverpool" Quinn didn't bat an eyelid.

Collymore was basically released.

Media reports today that Real Madrid and Barcelona are now interested in VVD. As 'Arry might say, proper football clubs.

Collymore was basically released.

 

Media reports today that Real Madrid and Barcelona are now interested in VVD. As 'Arry might say, proper football clubs.

Any links SOG?

Any links SOG?

http://www.donbalon.com/noticia/detalle/55531/el-central-top-de-la-premier-league-que-se-pone-a-tiro-para-barca-y-real-madrid

Don Balon not very reputable though.

If we sell VVD I'd rather we send him to Barcelona, Real Madrid, or someplace else outside of the PL.

http://www.givemesport.com/1108546-the-asking-price-liverpool-have-set-for-philippe-coutinho-amid-barcelona-interest?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted

Maybe we could sell VVD to Chelsea for £75m, then go and knock on Liverpool's door with a £85m bid for Coutinho. That's obviously after Les Reed has taken him down to Mayflower park for an ice cream.

RAWK seem to have it in their heads that we should be delighted with Chelsea's renewed interest because what we want is a bidding war. Sure, NOW we want a bidding war, but that wasn't the case at the start of the summer. We wanted to keep him as our captain and best player - it is the blatant tapping up actions of Liverpool and Klopp that have made his position at this club untenable. Not to say that we'll be letting him go on the cheap even if a bid from Chelsea doesn't materialise, his contract situation hasn't changed and we'll get very close to the £70 million we want, even if he does put in a transfer request. I don't care if his heart or his head or his ballsack are in Liverpool, Barcelona or Bognor bloody Regis, if we don't get the money, he's here for another season at least!

 

Personally I'd be delighted if he goes to Chelsea. I think he'd go with the blessing of virtually every Saints fan if that were to happen. At Chelsea he has a chance of winning things...

 

The whole tapping up situation in general needs looking at IMO. I'm sure all clubs do it to some degree, but Liverpool were the ones caught with their pants down doing it, and rules need tightening to stop it happening, especially for players with 5 years left on their contracts. Granted something as simple as a bid from one club to another can be enough to turn a player's head, but secret meetings with another club's manager or other member of staff needs to be outlawed.

With respect it's not the rules about tapping up that needs looking at, it's the acceptance by the FA that all clubs do it and anyone caught will only get a warning not to do it again. The rules and sanctions are already in place, now it's up to the ruling authorities to implement the sanctions to the full if they want to stamp it out of the game.

The FA have great oppurtunity with this case to show the bigger clubs they mean buisness. And, our club should not hide any evidence if they are serious in their attempt to stand up and say no more.

I will be more than dissappointed if we allow the FA to sweep this case under the carpet.

http://www.givemesport.com/1108546-the-asking-price-liverpool-have-set-for-philippe-coutinho-amid-barcelona-interest?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted

When you know you're a big club

Also, according to another Spanish outlet, Mundo Deportivo, Barca are looking to sign two Brazilians in order to keep Neymar happy at the Camp Nou.

With respect it's not the rules about tapping up that needs looking at, it's the acceptance by the FA that all clubs do it and anyone caught will only get a warning not to do it again. The rules and sanctions are already in place, now it's up to the ruling authorities to implement the sanctions to the full if they want to stamp it out of the game.

The FA have great oppurtunity with this case to show the bigger clubs they mean buisness. And, our club should not hide any evidence if they are serious in their attempt to stand up and say no more.

I will be more than dissappointed if we allow the FA to sweep this case under the carpet.

It's nothing to do with FA it is the hands of the PL.

It's nothing to do with FA it is the hands of the PL.

OHH and I thought it was the FA PL. But, that argument is a bit of a red herring, All the rules/laws/and rulings of all Leagues and cups in this country come under the jurisdiction of FIFA, UEFA, FA.. From Sunday Leagues to the FA EPL

OHH and I thought it was the FA PL. But, that argument is a bit of a red herring, All the rules/laws/and rulings of all Leagues and cups in this country come under the jurisdiction of FIFA, UEFA, FA.. From Sunday Leagues to the FA EPL

The FA and the Premier League are two different governing bodies.

Any tapping up is for the Premier League to decide, not the FA.

If we sell VVD I'd rather we send him to Barcelona, Real Madrid, or someplace else outside of the PL.

Agreed. Two games a season watching him snuff out our attack just adds salt to the wound of losing him. I suspect he's not in their plans though.

I think he'll stay. Reminds me of the Schiederlin affair a few years ago. Didn't play all pre-season and then was in the team for the first day.

I think he'll stay. Reminds me of the Schiederlin affair a few years ago. Didn't play all pre-season and then was in the team for the first day.

But that was in a world cup year so he'd have been back later anyway. Of course you could argue that VvD's case is possibly injury influenced.

Is there an internet link you can provide me with this information (or even more). This is not me doubting you. This is me wanting to do more research.

Sorry only just seen this...

depends on what aspect of Employment Act you want to research ie., from employers, Unions, or from the angle of Politics, or Paliamentary Laws? I worked in Employees rights, through the Trade Unions, TUC and Acas.

The Acas sites would be the best place to start if were for general research.

The FA and the Premier League are two different governing bodies.

 

Any tapping up is for the Premier League to decide, not the FA.

The only independence the FA ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE has from the FA is purely commercial. All rules, laws etc. are the responsibility of the Football Association.

'Tapping up' is reportable to, and punishable by the Football Association, who are the governing body of the PL.

https://www.premierleague.com/about/football-partners

Relevant to Rules Laws and discipline...

"For the Premier League, The FA ensures that throughout the season the Laws of the Game are applied on the field and that the rules and regulations concerned with running football in England are observed by officials, club and players off the pitch as well as on it.

The FA also deals with all matters of on and off-field discipline."

Off to Chelsea then...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/40708853

Off to Chelsea then...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/40708853

I really struggle to understand why Man City, Man United and Chelsea are not smashing our door down in an attempt to sign him. I guess they must have all asked tentatively if he was for sale and what kind of figure we might want and the reply of `no' and or `£75m' was enough to put them off.

Off to Chelsea then...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/40708853

I thought his Mrs never wanted to move. Chelsea allows him to stay where he is. Who knows, maybe this "Liverpool is the only place I want to go" is using them as a stalking horse.

I really struggle to understand why Man City, Man United and Chelsea are not smashing our door down in an attempt to sign him. I guess they must have all asked tentatively if he was for sale and what kind of figure we might want and the reply of `no' and or `£75m' was enough to put them off.

Easy, because he's not for sale. It's not a coincidence that the scousers are the only ones in for Keita and are again getting the door slammed in their moustaches. Other clubs take no for an answer but for the scousers it seems no means yes and yes means anal.