Virgil Transfer Rumours - Summer 17

Morgan is often quoted but he is not a good example for VVD -or anyone else--because Morgan's career ground to a halt and has never recovered. His Southampton days were his onlyu good days

Some might even say that that last season was detrimental to him. Perhaps he didn't greatly benefit from a season with Koeman and would have been far, far better if he'd gone to Tottenham with Pochettino as he wished at the time.

If you want to find a funny side to it all, it's always good seeing how much the Scousers think Virgil is desperate to only play for them at all costs. If Man City, Arsenal or Chelsea were even remotely interested in him and were willing to pay the wages Liverpool are offering, they really think he'd go 'no thanks i'm waiting for Liverpool'. Christ.

The good ship Van Dijk is currently heading into choppy Berahino-esque waters.

Couldn't give him a nudge could you?

We could have a poll! :-)

don't like thinking of this aloud, but he's worth more to us if he were to get knocked over by a herd of stampeding wildebeests and killed.

We'de get full insurance and Liverpool and his agent would be left with nothing

.

It's OK I am due to go to confession tomorrow:uhoh:

Marwell?

Always the Schneiderlin situation is quoted. Morgan is a pretty reasonable bloke who'd been with the club a while. There is no comparison, here we're dealing with an ambitious dutch knob who'll do (seemingly) whatever it takes to get what he wants.

 

In the words of the old Michael Miles game show....take the money..

 

He's not played a competitve game these last 6 months or so and his value is still sky high, in his eyes a few more months won't make any great difference.

I'm starting to come around to your point of view, much as I don't want to give in to the player/agent, the club HAS to come first. Morgan had given six years and come up with us from L1 and his behaviour was a single tweet and a couple of days. If we had a strong enough first XI to compete, fair enough but we don't. We need to get 3 or 4 quality players in quickly and as the club seem in turmoil with the takeover/non-takeover, use the VVD money.

I would say he's in a corner, we just need to tell him he's staying, he can either spend his time here training alone, away from the other players and missing the world cup, wasting his career. Or, accept it, come to an agreement with the club similar to Schneiderlin, give us a season, put yourself in the shop window, give us no ****e in the background about moves, spurious injury problems, agents briefing the press, then go with our blessing providing we get the fee we want. If he causes trouble during the season then he'll have to give us another season, his career will soon wither away whilst Southampton as a club will just move on. He cannot be allowed to get away with this

Hypothetical question. Might we have agreed verbally with him a schneiderlin type 'give us a season' this time last year, but on the basis that he signed a new deal to assist us with getting the best fee? People assume that it's him not holding up his end of the bargain.

The trouble is Saints are on their own on this one. The Premier League could help by taking action against clubs that illegally approach players or introduce a wage cap. They won't though because they are too afraid the big clubs will break away and form their own European league.

Hypothetical question. Might we have agreed verbally with him a schneiderlin type 'give us a season' this time last year, but on the basis that he signed a new deal to assist us with getting the best fee? People assume that it's him not holding up his end of the bargain.

No that is not a reasonable possibility. The new contract had to assume at least one extra year here--this year--or maybe two. He could have been sold just fine this summer on the old contract.

Hypothetical question. Might we have agreed verbally with him a schneiderlin type 'give us a season' this time last year, but on the basis that he signed a new deal to assist us with getting the best fee? People assume that it's him not holding up his end of the bargain.

If we had agreed such a deal then I'm sure we would have honoured it. Or do you have evidence that the club lies to players to get them to sign new contracts? Do you think Les had his fingers crossed?

The trouble is Saints are on their own on this one. The Premier League could help by taking action against clubs that illegally approach players or introduce a wage cap. They won't though because they are too afraid the big clubs will break away and form their own European league.

I wish they would break away and take Sky with them. Not sure Liverpool would be invited though.

SFC TID!'s last post is accurate regarding events yesterday.

 

Only additional information I have is that there are no bids yet. However, club looking to sell now. He's become a problem in what is otherwise a very happy squad. Other players that were unhappy and looking for an exit last season - Tadic, Cedric and Bertrand - are all now seemingly bought into MP 100%. VVD is casting a lonely figure after thinking that there were lots that wanted to leave this summer. Difficult to see a way back from here although club will hold out for asking price. MP and VVD relationship is pretty good so there potentially could be a way back if asking price not met before the end of the window. Club will likely buy a replacement now anyway though.

I didn't see this yesterday. I'm of the opinion this is good news. We need him out of the club & we need the money to put back into the team.

I'm sure MoPe would rather have some money to spend rather than a sulking, 6'4" defender that refuses to play for him.

Not much time for this to happen now. Time to prove all of this "We scout players for years..." spin is legit.

Some might even say that that last season was detrimental to him. Perhaps he didn't greatly benefit from a season with Koeman and would have been far, far better if he'd gone to Tottenham with Pochettino as he wished at the time.

He has an FA Cup to his name

Do you think he's going to want to stay after last nights shambles. I'm no bed wetter but 0-4 to that lot was unbelievably poor. I have a feeling this could be coming to a head.

Couldn't give a toss if he wants to stay or not. He has a contract which he was more than happy to sign.

He can't be that bothered about leaving. He hasn't even put a transfer request in yet.

Decent player that he is, he isn't world class and can get roughed up a little too easily.

I'm not bothered if he leaves now. Most important thing for me now is that he doesn't get any loyalty bonus for leaving. That would be insulting.

He has an FA Cup to his name

Right and also an Euro runners up medal, didn't put a foot on the pitch in either game though. Might have had a better time at Utd if Van Gaal had been kept on, Mourinho had no time for him from the start, then again that's Mourinho for you ain't it.

He can't be that bothered about leaving. He hasn't even put a transfer request in yet.

 

.

In the words of the Russian bloke from Bridge of Spies, "Would it help". Sincerely doubt it myself.

If someone smacks down the cash even a written request to stay wouldn't change anything.

He can't be that bothered about leaving. He hasn't even put a transfer request in yet.

 

Decent player that he is, he isn't world class and can get roughed up a little too easily.

 

I'm not bothered if he leaves now. Most important thing for me now is that he doesn't get any loyalty bonus for leaving. That would be insulting.

That second line is rubbish.

As much as I dislike him right now, he is the best defender I have ever seen play for us, and perhaps ever will. Let's not start saying "well he's not that good anyway" because we know it's not true.

No that is not a reasonable possibility. The new contract had to assume at least one extra year here--this year--or maybe two. He could have been sold just fine this summer on the old contract.

You mean that you assume it's not a reasonable possibility. We are a stepping stone club. Anything could have been discussed and agreed as an understanding. The point is that we don't know why that deal was signed and the background to it.

You mean that you assume it's not a reasonable possibility. We are a stepping stone club. Anything could have been discussed and agreed as an understanding. The point is that we don't know why that deal was signed and the background to it.

After signing the agreement VVD said it meant he would be spending a couple more years here. There was a whole debate on Saintsweb as to whether Dutch speakers understood the difference between a couple and a few. For the purpose of this discussion, it doesn't matter--either one would have him staying for this season.

That being said, of course I don't know what was said but the deal makes no sense for the club if it contemplated a departure this summer. For that matter, making him the new captain made no sense if he was going to leave this summer either. And if that was contemplated, why all the sneaky behavior--just let Liverpool put in the bid that he knew we would accept.

He was more than happy signing the new contract with a hefty pay rise to be highest paid in the club, and becoming the captain and knew he would be expected to stay at least another 2 seasons. What then happened is the filth from up north decided they wanted him so they set their plan into motion, first was getting him to swap agents to a 'friendly' agent, then there was the tapping up, along with the media releases stating the deal was already done. What they didn't expect was for us to grow a spine and say no. There is absolutely nothing they can do if we continue to say no, he can train alone which is fine, the club cannot now give in and sell to them, this will only strengthen them, as well as weaken us. I'd be happy to refuse to sell to them even if it meant he trained alone all season, at least this would disrupt their plans.

The good thing for SFC is the length of contract and that his value will not diminish. If it means that players won't sign long contracts in the future so be it. Seems a fairly meaningless exercise anyway.

I don't get why the greedy f o o k e r can't accept he owes us one more year, knuckle down give his best for us & leave with our blessing, it's not like he's old & this is his last chance of a big pay day! As for refusing to play for us, I honestly thought he wasn't that person how wrong we were!

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That second line is rubbish.

 

As much as I dislike him right now, he is the best defender I have ever seen play for us, and perhaps ever will. Let's not start saying "well he's not that good anyway" because we know it's not true.

I stand by my opinion that he's not world class. It's all about opinions though.

After signing the agreement VVD said it meant he would be spending a couple more years here. There was a whole debate on Saintsweb as to whether Dutch speakers understood the difference between a couple and a few. For the purpose of this discussion, it doesn't matter--either one would have him staying for this season.

 

That being said, of course I don't know what was said but the deal makes no sense for the club if it contemplated a departure this summer. For that matter, making him the new captain made no sense if he was going to leave this summer either. And if that was contemplated, why all the sneaky behavior--just let Liverpool put in the bid that he knew we would accept.

I hear what you say, but again it's assumptions. The fact is that we are a stepping stone club. If we weren't we wouldn't sign the likes of VVD, Mane, Lovren, Alderweireld (I know it was a loan). Signing players on long term deals are for our benefit, not the players. Sure, we're fans and want to see good players stay but we can't expect that - it's where we are in the layer cake. If we didn't have this approach we'd be signing players that the likes of West Bromwich attract. Consequently, when we sign up these players who are clearly destined for bigger moves, something has to be in it for the player over and above a few extra pounds a week while they are with us. One of those things may be an assurance of a move in certain situations. Without that I suspect that they wouldn't sign.

Whilst I hate any form of striking or holding people to ransom, I fear that if we get a reputation in the game for blocking players paths we will be much less likely to sign the next VVD or Mane. That's a real problem. The longer this stalemate continues I suspect that we'll find the transfer market a trickier place in the future. Imo it's a horrible situation for the club - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Having been convinced for months that he would be here for one more season - he could still be of course - as each day passes and he continues his pathetic childish strop I cant help but think the points has passed by which there is no real return. The only way I could see the majority of Saints fans "forgive him" and for him to become a favourite again is now if he stays longer than even just one more season. That of course is less likely than me winning the lottery jackpot on Saturday!

I think we now have to get rid but on our terms, get one or even two decent CBs in - get rid of Gardos, and Bednarek wont count for a season at least unless really desperate. This summer the club have allowed others to catch up and those ahead of us to extend their strength in terms of qulity and quantiy of signings. If we do not see at least one first team CB, a DCM partner for Oriel and a decent Attacker of some sort then I would class this as another failure in the transfer market, 3 on the trot.

Lets hope the next 4 weeks prove me wrong...

I hear what you say, but again it's assumptions. The fact is that we are a stepping stone club. If we weren't we wouldn't sign the likes of VVD, Mane, Lovren, Alderweireld (I know it was a loan). Signing players on long term deals are for our benefit, not the players. Sure, we're fans and want to see good players stay but we can't expect that - it's where we are in the layer cake. If we didn't have this approach we'd be signing players that the likes of West Bromwich attract. Consequently, when we sign up these players who are clearly destined for bigger moves, something has to be in it for the player over and above a few extra pounds a week while they are with us. One of those things may be an assurance of a move in certain situations. Without that I suspect that they wouldn't sign.

 

Whilst I hate any form of striking or holding people to ransom, I fear that if we get a reputation in the game for blocking players paths we will be much less likely to sign the next VVD or Mane. That's a real problem. The longer this stalemate continues I suspect that we'll find the transfer market a trickier place in the future. Imo it's a horrible situation for the club - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Drivel.

Drivel.

Not really, first section was spot on, second open to discussion.

Drivel.

You don't think we're a stepping stone club? You don't think that long contracts benefit us (with very good players who'll probably move on) more than the player? You don't think that the next big thing but who isn't yet ready for a bigger club won't want to come here if he's worried we'll hold him to his contract?

I stand by my opinion that he's not world class. It's all about opinions though.

I agree a very good player but not a great one

I hear what you say, but again it's assumptions. The fact is that we are a stepping stone club. If we weren't we wouldn't sign the likes of VVD, Mane, Lovren, Alderweireld (I know it was a loan). Signing players on long term deals are for our benefit, not the players. Sure, we're fans and want to see good players stay but we can't expect that - it's where we are in the layer cake. If we didn't have this approach we'd be signing players that the likes of West Bromwich attract. Consequently, when we sign up these players who are clearly destined for bigger moves, something has to be in it for the player over and above a few extra pounds a week while they are with us. One of those things may be an assurance of a move in certain situations. Without that I suspect that they wouldn't sign.

 

Whilst I hate any form of striking or holding people to ransom, I fear that if we get a reputation in the game for blocking players paths we will be much less likely to sign the next VVD or Mane. That's a real problem. The longer this stalemate continues I suspect that we'll find the transfer market a trickier place in the future. Imo it's a horrible situation for the club - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

We sign players with potential. They don't know in advance that they're going to make it to the next level so any idea of an advanced agreement about moving on will not exist.

Players like Wanyama, Mané, Van Dijk come to us because it's the best move up they can get. We're good at developing players, so that's an attraction for their future aspirations. Initially they work to prove themselves. It's when they start to get media attention and find aggressive agents that problems start. Until then they're happy to take what we're offering, including improved, extended contracts.

If we block Van Dijk for a while, it won't deter future signings, because they still need a stepping stone, and a club that will be good to stay at if they don't make it. And we do take on plenty of potential that won't make it. Then it's our problem. Are they good enough at our level, or how do we get rid?

The first priority for ambitious players is a club that can put them in the spotlight.

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Notice VVD was not picked to play for Holland tonight.

I'm definitely one to be realistic and say when players are not as good as the pandemonium that follows their departure. Lallana, Shaw, Lovren I felt were all easily replaceable when they left, and so it proved. But for me there's been two players we've had over recent years that are destined to reach the very top of the football pyramid, and that's Mane and Virgil. We will not get players as good as those two any time soon, if ever, in my opinion. So people saying 'yeah he's good but..' are lying to themselves i'm afraid. He is exceptional. He is mentioned as 'one of the best CB's in the league', but the day he pulls on a different shirt he'll become 'the best CB in the league' without a doubt. Just like people are now talking about how brilliant Mane is even though he's doing the exact same things he did for us, except it's shown live on Sky most weekends rather than for 5 minutes on MOTD, so people believe it. There is life after Virgil Van Dijk, without a doubt, but we have a ****ing diamond on our hands and if he has to go it's got to be for absolute top dollar because we won't see the like of him for a very, very long time.

You don't think we're a stepping stone club? You don't think that long contracts benefit us (with very good players who'll probably move on) more than the player? You don't think that the next big thing but who isn't yet ready for a bigger club won't want to come here if he's worried we'll hold him to his contract?

If it's is truly the club's strategy to be a stepping stone, then I can't see that it has greatly benefited the fans.

I'm not actually convinced this is the plan. We don't really want to lose our better players.

As for 'next big things' using us as a launch pad - who are we referring to?

Mane? Looked good but was playing in Austria, obviously jumped at the chance of a PL contract. Doubt we made any promises.

Morgan? Was with us for years, so different situation entirely. Same with lallana.

Clyne/chambers/Shaw - worked hard and deserved a move, doubt it was ever part of an agreed plan

Lovren - **** journeyman, probably as much of a surprise to him as anyone

PEH / Clasie - middling squad members, probably happy just to get paid

Boufal / Osvaldo - maybe some promises here. Seem the type of players

Romeo / Bertrand - just looking for regular game time, can't imagine any promises required

Having been convinced for months that he would be here for one more season - he could still be of course - as each day passes and he continues his pathetic childish strop I cant help but think the points has passed by which there is no real return. The only way I could see the majority of Saints fans "forgive him" and for him to become a favourite again is now if he stays longer than even just one more season. That of course is less likely than me winning the lottery jackpot on Saturday!

 

I think we now have to get rid but on our terms, get one or even two decent CBs in - get rid of Gardos, and Bednarek wont count for a season at least unless really desperate. This summer the club have allowed others to catch up and those ahead of us to extend their strength in terms of qulity and quantiy of signings. If we do not see at least one first team CB, a DCM partner for Oriel and a decent Attacker of some sort then I would class this as another failure in the transfer market, 3 on the trot.

 

Lets hope the next 4 weeks prove me wrong...

To be honest as a supporter of SFC I couldn't care less about the players, the times where you cheered the players on as one of yours are long gone, they are here for one reason and one reason only, to earn a good wedge and a move to a club higher up in the football chain, if players stay it is normally because they have found their level, not because they love the club or the fans, no matter what they say when they're here.

That said I'd be more than happy to have him back in the team as long as he got his head down, I view him as a commodity, the same as I do with all players, if he'll help us then have him in the team, it's not about forgiving him it's about using him when we need him, then once he goes next season that's the end of him as far as I'm concerned. Consideration has to be given to our reputation and standing in the game, at the moment clubs like them oop north think we're their *****es, here to provide them with players when they require it, there comes a time when the bullied won't accept being bullied anymore and and will have to make a stand, our time is now and we should stand firm, if it means ruining his career, so be it, he aint no bigger than SFC and the sooner he realises that the better.

I'd say that as a club both the fans and the powers that be are pretty pragmatic and know our place, we don't have any unrealistic expectations, what we do expect though is a degree of respect, it's about time we started being given a bot of respect

I'm definitely one to be realistic and say when players are not as good as the pandemonium that follows their departure. Lallana, Shaw, Lovren I felt were all easily replaceable when they left, and so it proved. But for me there's been two players we've had over recent years that are destined to reach the very top of the football pyramid, and that's Mane and Virgil. We will not get players as good as those two any time soon, if ever, in my opinion. So people saying 'yeah he's good but..' are lying to themselves i'm afraid. He is exceptional. He is mentioned as 'one of the best CB's in the league', but the day he pulls on a different shirt he'll become 'the best CB in the league' without a doubt. Just like people are now talking about how brilliant Mane is even though he's doing the exact same things he did for us, except it's shown live on Sky most weekends rather than for 5 minutes on MOTD, so people believe it. There is life after Virgil Van Dijk, without a doubt, but we have a ****ing diamond on our hands and if he has to go it's got to be for absolute top dollar because we won't see the like of him for a very, very long time.

Spot on. Alderweireld was quality too, didn't think we'd find someone better than him, but VVD is next level.

I had reservations about Mane's application, because he couldn't always be bothered for us (yet even on an off day, was a threat when he got the ball) but it turns out that for Liverpool he can be bothered every week...

Notice VVD was not picked to play for Holland tonight.

his head has been turned by Italy

You don't think we're a stepping stone club? You don't think that long contracts benefit us (with very good players who'll probably move on) more than the player? You don't think that the next big thing but who isn't yet ready for a bigger club won't want to come here if he's worried we'll hold him to his contract?

It's blindingly obvious we're a stepping stone club, though the players we sign are far from the finished article -some will kick on; some won't. Likewise, nobody here is expecting players to see out the full length of a contract when we offer long terms. You're criticising an illusory target.

Rather the question -which you completely miss- is what the club can reasonably expect when a player decides to sign an extension when they are barely through their initial contract. I think there's every expectation that VVD would stay another season. If not, there is no point in the club offering an extension. Again none of this is inconsistent with being a stepping stone club as it's not the intention to hold VVD to the full length of any extension. Redslo is spot on here.

The problem for me is selling the t-wat to the Scouse. Anyone else I couldn't really care any more. But that club in particular just have no shame.

Notice VVD was not picked to play for Holland tonight.

I'd have been surprised if he had of been picked - not played a competitive game in 6 months (other than the stupid ones he's playing now).

I'd have been surprised if he had of been picked - not played a competitive game in 6 months (other than the stupid ones he's playing now).

And the fact that he's the wrong sex

One of Heisenberg's funnier posts though

Rather the question -which you completely miss- is what the club can reasonably expect when a player decides to sign an extension when they are barely through their initial contract. I think there's every expectation that VVD would stay another season. If not, there is no point in the club offering an extension. Again none of this is inconsistent with being a stepping stone club as it's not the intention to hold VVD to the full length of any extension. Redslo is spot on here.

We're straying from the point that the extension is for the club's benefit, not the player. The longer the contract, in theory, the stronger our hand when selling time comes. At least that used to be the thinking! To give that something to the club, the player expects something. Sure, there'll be money, but more besides I suspect.

To answer your question, the club can expect some commitment from the player. It could be to delay a move to the next season rather than an immediate move - I'm not quite sure why and redslo assume something different.

At which point do we stop paying VVD's wages? Or even fine him for breach of contract? I am sick to death now of this situation and the club need to sort this out before the weekend. It's over shadowing everything at the club right now and it has to stop. VVD you are an absolute disgrace, a disgrace to yourself, a disgrace to the club (your ARE the captain) a disgrace to the fans, and a disgrace to football. As a season ticket holder of 25+ years I long for the days when we had players that were proud to wear the shirt and loved playing for Saints. Getting thoroughly ****ed of with the Premier league right now

We're straying from the point that the extension is for the club's benefit, not the player. The longer the contract, in theory, the stronger our hand when selling time comes. At least that used to be the thinking! To give that something to the club, the player expects something. Sure, there'll be money, but more besides I suspect.

 

To answer your question, the club can expect some commitment from the player. It could be to delay a move to the next season rather than an immediate move - I'm not quite sure why and redslo assume something different.

Disagree. Per his original contract, he was only 2 years through a five year contract. With three years remaining, our hand was strong enough, especially if the intention was to sell him this summer. At a certain point, having more years on a contract makes little difference to a negotiating position.

Sure, there'll be money, but more besides I suspect.

It wasn't just money though was it, he was also made Captain (which is more important to both player and club than some on here seem to think), and that at a time when we already had a captain. That was a big deal for the Club and meant that the Club were already planning to relieve Fonte of that responsibility, which could only mean by getting rid. Something happened between VvD and the Club (Les) during the months that followed, presumably after January. Liverpool's approach was not the catalyst for change, it was a result of whatever that catalyst was (in my opinion). Would love to know what it was that happened to sour the relationship.

why doesn't the Dutch **** just hand in a transfer request and **** off?

It wasn't just money though was it, he was also made Captain (which is more important to both player and club than some on here seem to think), and that at a time when we already had a captain. That was a big deal for the Club and meant that the Club were already planning to relieve Fonte of that responsibility, which could only mean by getting rid. Something happened between VvD and the Club (Les) during the months that followed, presumably after January. Liverpool's approach was not the catalyst for change, it was a result of whatever that catalyst was (in my opinion). Would love to know what it was that happened to sour the relationship.

Yes completely your opinion as you know nothing more than anyone else.

I remember herr klopf's interview last game of the season. "We know what players we want, and we have spoken to them" Not really difficult to follow the footsteps in the sand is it?

why doesn't the Dutch **** just hand in a transfer request and **** off?

Because he won't earn what he will lose in the first year of wages at Liverpool.

A Saints team last week, u19's or could have been just an academy team, played Hamble 1sts. Virgil played. Virgil was very relaxed and laid back. Everyone wanted to talk to him and he chatted with everyone. He openly said he was going to Chelsea. Hamble won 5-4.....