Puel out

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4526936/Manchester-United-s-squad-provide-worst-value-money.html

Table at bottom is interesting

If you switched around the last 4 months away results with the home ones, how would everyone view things differently?

No, I wouldn't . We finished 8th !!!!end of. Same as we finished under Poch. Fact.

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No, I wouldn't . We finished 8th !!!!end of. Same as we finished under Poch. Fact.

 

 

 

 

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Is league position all that matters to you?

No, I wouldn't . We finished 8th !!!!end of. Same as we finished under Poch. Fact.

 

 

 

 

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But 15 points difference, why can't you see that ?

No, I wouldn't . We finished 8th !!!!end of. Same as we finished under Poch. Fact.

 

 

 

 

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Total t******

I'm still right on the fence. Yes the football's been negative (& simply awful at times) and Puel's tactics are questionable. He's also clearly hard to warm to. However, he was unlucky losing VVD to injury right after Fonte was sold and Austin's long absence didn't help either. Its not all down to him though, the board are culpable too. They sold our 'crown jewels' and replaced them with much inferior players, not Puel, and we were clearly a forward light going into the season. Its easy for Les and the board to hide behind his failings. I've no doubt that after another blank today, fairly loud booing and negative chants from the stands, and very few fans staying behind for the players' lap, that he's gone. Perhaps Les should be following him out the door.

It is cut and dried for me. We have finished 8th in the league and had a cup final. The cup final was probably my greatest experience of supporting Saints apart from maybe staying up against Wimbledon. Judged on this I think it is absurd to sack him. We will either appoint a brilliant manager who goes to a bigger club or a useless manager who gets sacked. The only caveat I would have is if some of the senior players do not warm to him and want to get somebody else in.

I have consistently backed Puel and have enjoyed many good away days this season while sharing the home form frustration of many on here.

 

If people are honest, rather than reinforcing their own bias, all would agree that we would have been delighted with 8th and a cup final. And then, throw in missing our best player for half the season and our top goal scorer for even more and things could have been expected to be much, much worse. Additionally three of the seven clubs above us had no European football which is very unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

 

My view right from the start of the season is that we would struggle to score without Pelle and Mane. Any assessment that ignores this, plus VVD and Austin absence is grossly unfair.

 

As one of the loyal fans who stayed back after the game I was fuming at the shambles of the lap of honour. People dribbled out of the tunnel, initially a ludicrous choice of asking a security guard to walk round with Puel and the sight of Forster who clearly resented being made to go out there. The "group" ended up being multiple groups of staff and their players and it looked the opposite of "the Southampton Way".

 

This makes me think, more than the results and the home performances, that he may be gone next week. It was the worst possible advert of team spirit.

 

I worry greatly about the future. To think some idiots were proclaiming Silva to be the answer a couple of weeks ago. His last three games have been a home defeat to a relegated side, a 4 goal defeat in a relegation six pointer with no shots on target and then a 7-1 home defeat. Perhaps that is what the "don't care about results and League table, just want entertainment" brigade want to see.

 

What ever happened to letting a manger learn and reflect on their mistakes, celebrate their achievements, then back them in the summer? As many older fans know, things get a lot worse than 4 top eight finishes. I hope some of the most vocal on here will still be around to see how changes work out if that is what to happen.

Fair comment here. The bottom line is we stayed up comfortably, which was probably the objective of this season.

Final league table for me, Kat, Les, Ralph and 70-80% of SFC fans looks and is viewed like this.

Chelsea 93

.

.

.

Spurs 86

.

.

.

Man City 78

.

Liverpool 76

Arsenal 75

.

.

Man United 69

.

.

.

Everton 61

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Saints, AFCB 46

WBA, WHU 45

Leicester, Stoke 44

.

Palace, Swansea 41

Burnley, Watford 40

.

.

Hull 34

.

.

Middlesbrough 28

.

Sunderland 24

Eddie howe has blown puel away in the league this season

Eddie howe has blown puel away in the league this season

Didn't beat him though.

Didn't beat him though.

So. We beat a rampant fergie side 6-3 once. I would have had fergie over souness or merrington any day

Think it's just Pamplemousse left before we get a unanimous decision on the mongboard.

Oi, I'm still here. Puel in!

Eric Black out.

So. We beat a rampant fergie side 6-3 once. I would have had fergie over souness or merrington any day

Doesn't really matter. Your original point isn't valid.

I have consistently backed Puel and have enjoyed many good away days this season while sharing the home form frustration of many on here.

 

If people are honest, rather than reinforcing their own bias, all would agree that we would have been delighted with 8th and a cup final. And then, throw in missing our best player for half the season and our top goal scorer for even more and things could have been expected to be much, much worse. Additionally three of the seven clubs above us had no European football which is very unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

 

My view right from the start of the season is that we would struggle to score without Pelle and Mane. Any assessment that ignores this, plus VVD and Austin absence is grossly unfair.

 

As one of the loyal fans who stayed back after the game I was fuming at the shambles of the lap of honour. People dribbled out of the tunnel, initially a ludicrous choice of asking a security guard to walk round with Puel and the sight of Forster who clearly resented being made to go out there. The "group" ended up being multiple groups of staff and their players and it looked the opposite of "the Southampton Way".

 

This makes me think, more than the results and the home performances, that he may be gone next week. It was the worst possible advert of team spirit.

 

I worry greatly about the future. To think some idiots were proclaiming Silva to be the answer a couple of weeks ago. His last three games have been a home defeat to a relegated side, a 4 goal defeat in a relegation six pointer with no shots on target and then a 7-1 home defeat. Perhaps that is what the "don't care about results and League table, just want entertainment" brigade want to see.

 

What ever happened to letting a manger learn and reflect on their mistakes, celebrate their achievements, then back them in the summer? As many older fans know, things get a lot worse than 4 top eight finishes. I hope some of the most vocal on here will still be around to see how changes work out if that is what to happen.

Sums it up for me too. I'm old enough to remember the Nicholl-out mob winning and of course the disastrous consequences. And we don't have an MLT to save us this time if Les appoints a Br*nf**t.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4526936/Manchester-United-s-squad-provide-worst-value-money.html

 

 

Table at bottom is interesting

We finished 8th in that too? Bloody hell, our team really has NO originality!

No, I wouldn't . We finished 8th !!!!end of. Same as we finished under Poch. Fact.

 

 

 

 

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I agree. If we'd gone into the end of the season with consistent winning, scoring goals, as we've been doing away, but it'd been at home instead, no-one would be moaning now. It's ridiculous, just based on what the majority see and not how we're actually playing.

Think it's just Pamplemousse left before we get a unanimous decision on the mongboard.

I already posted my thoughts

Probably time to make a change of manager I guess.

 

How on earth have we finished in 8th?

 

However, I personally think that Les Reed, for his failed transfer business, and the players, who have been on the beach, should share some, if not the overwhelming majority, of the blame for this poor end of season.

 

Just please not Marco Silva. We'll be relegation candidates under him.

Winston Churchill led the country to victory in the second world war and was voted out almost immediately after the war ended. Why? Because people felt that despite his efforts, he wasn't the right man to take the country forward. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have to look at the bigger picture. Nobody disputed his achievements, they just didn't feel he was the right choice going forward.

8th place and a cup final can be seen as a success. However, is Puel the right man to get us back on track with our long term aim? Sometimes you have to make brave decisions for the benefit of all.

Puel has been under pressure for months but has shown no attempt to fight

4 wins in our last 18 games + the record breaking goal draught.

Even rats go for the throat when trapped in a corner....

The 17 point drop from last season

+

The 32 point swing with Everton (Koeman) will pinch Reed.

Puel has been a gamble too far and a quick change now in order.

Problem for me....really don't want Silva....and we are not going to get Tuchel,Emery etc.

No one is a stand out replacement that we are likely to get.

Saying that,Simone please.

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Is league position all that matters to you?

It's how we measure teams

What do you want, Len Goodman to decide league positions based on artistic merit?

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PREMIER LEAGUE NET SPEND TABLE

20. Southampton -£13.73m

19. Liverpool -£5.10m

18. Swansea £8.16m

17. Hull £9.44m

16. WBA £9.78m

15. Watford £10.92m

14. Bournemouth £12.92m

13. Sunderland £13.46m

12. Chelsea £20.74m

11. Leicester £22.14m

10. Everton £23.04m (Including £50m for the overrated Stones)

9. Tottenham £24.82m

8. Stoke £29.53m

7. Middlesbrough £33.28m

6. West Ham £36.13m

5. Burnley £37.74m

4. Crystal Palace £42.59m

3. Arsenal £87.25m

2. Man Utd £117.17m

1. Man City £151.00m

Puel thrown under the bus with our weakest squad in years, before injuries to our best player and best striker. Starts getting the academy kids involved again and still manages 8th and a cup final. Our goals scored sucks but on results it's hard to argue he hasn't overperformed. Look back at the start of season expectation threads and everyone expected worse. If we sack him he'll have no issues walking in to another big job.

Problem for me....really don't want Silva....and we are not going to get Tuchel,Emery etc.

No one is a stand out replacement that we are likely to get.

Saying that,Simone please.

 

 

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Well who ever we end up with he is probably going to have to do better than this season with the same squad minus VVD, Bertrand and Cedric ...yeah good luck with that. Is Jesus available because we are going to need a bloody miracle worker next season.

PREMIER LEAGUE NET SPEND TABLE

20. Southampton -£13.73m

19. Liverpool -£5.10m

18. Swansea £8.16m

17. Hull £9.44m

16. WBA £9.78m

15. Watford £10.92m

14. Bournemouth £12.92m

13. Sunderland £13.46m

12. Chelsea £20.74m

11. Leicester £22.14m

10. Everton £23.04m (Including £50m for the overrated Stones)

9. Tottenham £24.82m

8. Stoke £29.53m

7. Middlesbrough £33.28m

6. West Ham £36.13m

5. Burnley £37.74m

4. Crystal Palace £42.59m

3. Arsenal £87.25m

2. Man Utd £117.17m

1. Man City £151.00m

 

Puel thrown under the bus with our weakest squad in years, before injuries to our best player and best striker. Starts getting the academy kids involved again and still manages 8th and a cup final. Our goals scored sucks but on results it's hard to argue he hasn't overperformed. Look back at the start of season expectation threads and everyone expected worse. If we sack him he'll have no issues walking in to another big job.

I assume that is supposed to 3.73 not 13.73 for us?

Given his achievements in the context of our net transfer income preseason, I reckon the board will be pleased with his record on paper. The fan and player unrest is what will make them reconsider.

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I assume that is supposed to 3.73 not 13.73 for us?

£13.73m

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/southampton-fc/transfers/verein/180

It's how we measure teams

 

What do you want, Len Goodman to decide league positions based on artistic merit?

 

 

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There are six teams all within two points of each other. We only have 46 points and a goal difference of -7 and as has been pointed out earlier, 4 wins out of the last 18 games. Do you really think we are making progress? On top of that the football has been dire and each goal that I have seen has cost me over £122. The home cup games were even worse than the league games. I think it's fair to ask for some entertainment for a vast outlay of money. Otherwise if all you care about is league position you might as we watch the games on Teletext.

Poor end to a very strange season. Very fortunate to finish 8th but I will take it, actually glad the season is over!

Ownership change a big worry & expect it to happen in the summer. Very sceptical of Lander so hope another option is lurking in the shadows. I think the club is at a crossroads & will be interesting to see what happens next.

Mixed emotions regarding Puel all season, but now the dust has settled I hope (& expect) he leaves. Points drop is just not good enough & football has been dull. Lack of goals alarming.

From day 1 his stubbornness shined through. Needlessly changed a winning team by playing the diamond every week, insisting Redmond was a striker & expecting Austin to track back. Next the 4-3-3 about as creative as burnt toast. Seems as though the players insisted on 4-2-3-1 & immediate improvement at Sunderland & our most exciting period of the season.

Last few weeks I feel the players have had enough and that has been reflected in the performances. If a squad player has a good game they are invariably dropped & this must be soul destroying.

That said a number of players have to look at themselves in the mirror as does Les Reed who has made some very bad calls this year. Let's hope he has the balls to admit it to himself and learn from it.

This process starts by cutting Puel asap imo. No doubt he has tried his best but I don't think he is a good fit.

Will wish him all the best if he leaves.

I have consistently backed Puel and have enjoyed many good away days this season while sharing the home form frustration of many on here.

 

If people are honest, rather than reinforcing their own bias, all would agree that we would have been delighted with 8th and a cup final. And then, throw in missing our best player for half the season and our top goal scorer for even more and things could have been expected to be much, much worse. Additionally three of the seven clubs above us had no European football which is very unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

 

My view right from the start of the season is that we would struggle to score without Pelle and Mane. Any assessment that ignores this, plus VVD and Austin absence is grossly unfair.

 

As one of the loyal fans who stayed back after the game I was fuming at the shambles of the lap of honour. People dribbled out of the tunnel, initially a ludicrous choice of asking a security guard to walk round with Puel and the sight of Forster who clearly resented being made to go out there. The "group" ended up being multiple groups of staff and their players and it looked the opposite of "the Southampton Way".

 

This makes me think, more than the results and the home performances, that he may be gone next week. It was the worst possible advert of team spirit.

 

I worry greatly about the future. To think some idiots were proclaiming Silva to be the answer a couple of weeks ago. His last three games have been a home defeat to a relegated side, a 4 goal defeat in a relegation six pointer with no shots on target and then a 7-1 home defeat. Perhaps that is what the "don't care about results and League table, just want entertainment" brigade want to see.

 

What ever happened to letting a manger learn and reflect on their mistakes, celebrate their achievements, then back them in the summer? As many older fans know, things get a lot worse than 4 top eight finishes. I hope some of the most vocal on here will still be around to see how changes work out if that is what to happen.

God almighty the irony of people clinging to Hull's defeat today despite scathing people for 'knee jerk reactions' and 'failing to look at the bigger picture' when it came to Puel is unbelievable.

So, let's look at the bigger picture with Silva.

He has managed to get 21 points in 18 matches this season, including matches where his team were effectively already relegated. In Hull he had the worst team in the league at his disposal, a team who were in the midst of a slump and who had just sold their best attacking player. Within a month he got them taking 4 points off Liverpool and United in the space of half a week and managed to get a squad that would have been relegated in April under Phelan to have a fighting chance of staying up.

Saying Silva's done a bad job with Hull because he didn't keep them up is like saying Pochettino has done a bad job with Spurs because they didn't win the title.

Get him in.

£13.73m

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/southampton-fc/transfers/verein/180

yeah I just realised there is a minus symbol in front of it.

Poor end to a very strange season. Very fortunate to finish 8th but I will take it, actually glad the season is over!

 

Ownership change a big worry & expect it to happen in the summer. Very sceptical of Lander so hope another option is lurking in the shadows. I think the club is at a crossroads & will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

Mixed emotions regarding Puel all season, but now the dust has settled I hope (& expect) he leaves. Points drop is just not good enough & football has been dull. Lack of goals alarming.

 

From day 1 his stubbornness shined through. Needlessly changed a winning team by playing the diamond every week, insisting Redmond was a striker & expecting Austin to track back. Next the 4-3-3 about as creative as burnt toast. Seems as though the players insisted on 4-2-3-1 & immediate improvement at Sunderland & our most exciting period of the season.

 

Last few weeks I feel the players have had enough and that has been reflected in the performances. If a squad player has a good game they are invariably dropped & this must be soul destroying.

 

That said a number of players have to look at themselves in the mirror as does Les Reed who has made some very bad calls this year. Let's hope he has the balls to admit it to himself and learn from it.

 

This process starts by cutting Puel asap imo. No doubt he has tried his best but I don't think he is a good fit.

 

Will wish him all the best if he leaves.

Surely the bit that changed the winning team was losing Pelle, Mane and Victor bit hard for him to just continue were Koeman left off having lost those three. Also wasn't one of the issues with Koeman that Les didn't like the style of football? I'm pretty sure the ITKs on here said as much when Koeman was going through his bad spell around Christmas last season. I think Les actually wanted to encourage a different style shame he didn't buy better players to facilitate it.

Now that this season is finally over, I'm hoping that next season will have fewer possibilities, and that they are not very interesting.

Given his achievements in the context of our net transfer income preseason, I reckon the board will be pleased with his record on paper. The fan and player unrest is what will make them reconsider.

 

 

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You're right. The Board may well think he's still a good fit but will be nervous of the growing mob rebellion.

But we do live in an age of mass gut reaction to much-repeated messages and, whatever happens, I hope we don't regret it.

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Hasn't he been sacked yet?

Come on Saints - get him out and replacement in NOW.... but then I guess Les wants to sell the jewels first and reduce the new managers squad and time to square away his new team.... as usual.

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God almighty the irony of people clinging to Hull's defeat today despite scathing people for 'knee jerk reactions' and 'failing to look at the bigger picture' when it came to Puel is unbelievable.

 

So, let's look at the bigger picture with Silva.

 

He has managed to get 21 points in 18 matches this season, including matches where his team were effectively already relegated. In Hull he had the worst team in the league at his disposal, a team who were in the midst of a slump and who had just sold their best attacking player. Within a month he got them taking 4 points off Liverpool and United in the space of half a week and managed to get a squad that would have been relegated in April under Phelan to have a fighting chance of staying up.

 

Saying Silva's done a bad job with Hull because he didn't keep them up is like saying Pochettino has done a bad job with Spurs because they didn't win the title.

 

Get him in.

They had a must win game away to Palace and didn't manage a single shot on target. Negaitive, crabby football. Doesn't play 44****ing2.

You're right. The Board may well think he's still a good fit but will be nervous of the growing mob rebellion.

 

But we do live in an age of mass gut reaction to much-repeated messages and, whatever happens, I hope we don't regret it.

 

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I think that's the crux.

Our fans have shown their true colours and a couple of dodgy results at the start of next season will turn the atmosphere even worse.

I think that's the crux.

 

Our fans have shown their true colours and a couple of dodgy results at the start of next season will turn the atmosphere even worse.

Yes, terrible that we actually want to score a goal

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It Is a tough one but I suppose you have to look at a couple of things that helped me to descided he doesn't warrant another season.

1. Has he progressed the teams position - NO

2. Has he progressed our style of play - NO

3. Has he made us more attractive for better players - NO

4. Do we think we will keep our best players - NO

5. Given a second year do we think we will improve our play and position - NO

Cut our losses now or next season could be a banana skin.

It Is a tough one but I suppose you have to look at a couple of things that helped me to descided he doesn't warrant another season.1. Has he progressed the teams position - NO2. Has he progressed our style of play - NO3. Has he made us more attractive for better players - NO4. Do we think we will keep our best players - NO5. Given a second year do we think we will improve our play and position - NOCut our losses now or next season could be a banana skin.

Yes, terrible that we actually want to score a goal

 

 

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There were at least three chances yesterday that, on another day, would have given us a comfortable win. It's not lack of trying!

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My issue with Puel is that he doesn't seem to have learned. We are no more fluent now than we were at the start of the season.

I can't really see a definable style of play any more now than in his first games.

Other than a few players he seems to rotate the rest endlessly which works no better now than the start of the season.

We all make mistakes but we try to learn and improve. Puel seems to stubbornly refuse to change despite the evidence in front of his eyes.

I think we have a clear style. Whether it's the best or jet is debatable but it's obvious we had a strategy this season to implement a certain style of play.

Much more so than under Koeman, for example, who would constantly flit between counter-attack, building from the back, direct balls etc...

My issue with Puel is that he doesn't seem to have learned. We are no more fluent now than we were at the start of the season.

I can't really see a definable style of play any more now than in his first games.

Other than a few players he seems to rotate the rest endlessly which works no better now than the start of the season.

We all make mistakes but we try to learn and improve. Puel seems to stubbornly refuse to change despite the evidence in front of his eyes.

This is a big issue for me. The players spend the first hour of each game trying to sort out who should be where and having to explain to each other why they should have been on the end of a pass that went nowhere. It shouldn't be like this after a season in charge.

I think we have a clear style. Whether it's the best or jet is debatable but it's obvious we had a strategy this season to implement a certain style of play.

 

Much more so than under Koeman, for example, who would constantly flit between counter-attack, building from the back, direct balls etc...

Clear style? Would that be keep possession at all costs and don't do anything adventurous that might support the lone striker? Basically, keep it tight and try to hit them on the break.

Clear style? Would that be keep possession at all costs and don't do anything adventurous that might support the lone striker? Basically, keep it tight and try to hit them on the break.

That is incorrect.

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Clear style? Would that be keep possession at all costs and don't do anything adventurous that might support the lone striker? Basically, keep it tight and try to hit them on the break.

I actually went to watch United v Palace yesterday (work invite) and was expecting to see United play similar to us given the various reports of dull play.

What I noticed is that, like us they seem to favor the percentage stats and build this up with passes across the back 4, what they do differently however is the attacking. They defend as a team and attack as one too. There were a number of occasions where United had the ball wide and I counted 7 or 8 united players in or around the 18 yard box. So many times this season we have attacked teams on the break and will have maybe 2v6 in the box.

Puel is so obsessed with the defending that only a few players now have the freedom to support our attacks. The irony is we haven't been great at defending and have conceded more this season than the last 3 seasons

Goals against:

2017: 48

2016: 41

2015: 33

2014: 46

Clear style? Would that be keep possession at all costs and don't do anything adventurous that might support the lone striker? Basically, keep it tight and try to hit them on the break.

Grossely incorrect.

I suspose you are an advocate of the good old hoofball and rely on opposing defenses making mistakes.

Great entertaibement value.

We are playing the right way along the ground which is very european.

I get it most of you haven't bedn educated with that type of football.

Had we been able to put a few more in the net, you would all be creaming yourselves saying this is beautiful football.

Final ball has been lacking all season ultimately this is the offensive players responsibility making the correct decision at the right time + we need a few more in the box.

Our construction play and the way we setup defensively is perfectly sound.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/may/22/premier-league-2016-17-season-review-our-writers-best-and-worst

Not one mention in long review of year (that i could see from skim read). Shows you how dull we are.

Interesting bit on moral gripes, perhaps with relevance to us, though:

Jacob Steinberg: The tedious moral outrage that greeted Claudio Ranieri’s sacking by Leicester City, who looked a good bet to go down before replacing the Italian with Craig Shakespeare. So what if the players wanted him out? It doesn’t make them rats or weasels; it makes them professionals.

I actually went to watch United v Palace yesterday (work invite) and was expecting to see United play similar to us given the various reports of dull play.

 

What I noticed is that, like us they seem to favor the percentage stats and build this up with passes across the back 4, what they do differently however is the attacking. They defend as a team and attack as one too. There were a number of occasions where United had the ball wide and I counted 7 or 8 united players in or around the 18 yard box. So many times this season we have attacked teams on the break and will have maybe 2v6 in the box.

 

Puel is so obsessed with the defending that only a few players now have the freedom to support our attacks. The irony is we haven't been great at defending and have conceded more this season than the last 3 seasons

 

Goals against:

2017: 48

2016: 41

2015: 33

2014: 46

Not really a fair stat given the respective qualities of the cbs over the comparative periods.

Defensively we have been pretty solid.