Puel out

Grossely incorrect.

I suspose you are an advocate of the good old hoofball and rely on opposing defenses making mistakes.

Great entertaibement value.

 

We are playing the right way along the ground which is very european.

I get it most of you haven't bedn educated with that type of football.

Had we been able to put a few more in the net, you would all be creaming yourselves saying this is beautiful football.

Final ball has been lacking all season ultimately this is the offensive players responsibility making the correct decision at the right time + we need a few more in the box.

Our construction play and the way we setup defensively is perfectly sound.

Grossly incorrect

Where have I advocated hoofball? We just don't attack in numbers and are much too slow in moving the ball forward. With our team of short players that of necessity has to be along the ground and we lose the extra dimension of balls in the air. We lose to a lot of headers and we don't score many ourselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/may/22/premier-league-2016-17-season-review-our-writers-best-and-worst

Not one mention in long review of year (that i could see from skim read). Shows you how dull we are.

Interesting bit on moral gripes, perhaps with relevance to us, though:

 

Jacob Steinberg: The tedious moral outrage that greeted Claudio Ranieri’s sacking by Leicester City, who looked a good bet to go down before replacing the Italian with Craig Shakespeare. So what if the players wanted him out? It doesn’t make them rats or weasels; it makes them professionals.

This from further down that article would have made things interesting!!

Paul Doyle: Teams should be docked a point for losing without scoring.

Clear style? Would that be keep possession at all costs and don't do anything adventurous that might support the lone striker? Basically, keep it tight and try to hit them on the break.

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

Grossely incorrect.

I suspose you are an advocate of the good old hoofball and rely on opposing defenses making mistakes.

Great entertaibement value.

 

We are playing the right way along the ground which is very european.

I get it most of you haven't bedn educated with that type of football.

Had we been able to put a few more in the net, you would all be creaming yourselves saying this is beautiful football.

Final ball has been lacking all season ultimately this is the offensive players responsibility making the correct decision at the right time + we need a few more in the box.

Our construction play and the way we setup defensively is perfectly sound.

Yes, thank you. I hadn't seen that when I wrote my post.

The double save from Butland yesterday.... if we had finished one of those chances it would have been a beautiful goal. It was a fluid and incisive move involving a number of players.

Puel's job is to set the team up to maximise our control of the match and nullify the opposition. In the vast majority of games we have done that well. Unfortunately, when you don't score it means you are always on the edge of defeat and nerves and pressure build up. You could say we should have reverted to more percentage football but, frankly, what's the point? We still wouldn't have finished any higher and I doubt we would have got to the league cup final.

Puel was clearly recruited with a mandate to try to impose a style on our play. We haven't really had a style since Poch left because Koeman never really looked beyond the next match and was an arch pragmatist. Fair enough, that's a valid approach, but I don't think it's what Les et al really want long-term.

Now, you can say it hasn't worked, which is legitimate but that's as much down to the personnel available as the manager IMO.

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

 

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

Thats quite a major blip with the system then, not helped by putting all the pressure on the lone striker and the inability of the creative midfielders....or any midfielders come to that to score a goal on even a semi regular basis.

I'm glad you refrained from using the word "quick" anywhere in that description of our playing style

Thats quite a major blip with the system then, not helped by putting all the pressure on the lone striker and the inability of the creative midfielders....or any midfielders come to that to score a goal on even a semi regular basis.

I'm glad you refrained from using the word "quick" anywhere in that description of our playing style

It's not wholly attributable to a "blip in the system". Missing penalties, missing chances and crossing badly are nothing to do with a "system".

Redmond often fails to deliver a decent cross and the final ball from Tadic and Cedric is pretty eratic too. Bertrand is usually reliable but he was a culprit yesterday as well.

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

 

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

There you have it. It's not working very well is it?

There you have it. It's not working very well is it?

I didn't say it was. I said we had a clear style in response to your completely inaccurate description of our style, following a suggestion that there wasn't one.

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

 

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

That's the way I see it we general play nice stuff up until the final third were we have struggled to get it right most of the season.

I didn't say it was. I said we had a clear style in response to your completely inaccurate description of our style, following a suggestion that there wasn't one.

I listed what we didn't do. You might like to describe what we do as a style but there's no style in it.

That's the way I see it we general play nice stuff up until the final third were we have struggled to get it right most of the season.

You could say "Turd in the final third"?

I listed what we didn't do. You might like to describe what we do as a style but there's no style in it.

You seem to be confusing "style" as a description of how we play and "style" as an abstract concept.

You seem to be confusing "style" as a description of how we play and "style" as an abstract concept.

I was playing with words. You could say that our style of play is to play without style.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4526936/Manchester-United-s-squad-provide-worst-value-money.html

 

 

Table at bottom is interesting

People should ignore squad value IMO, especially since we have net received money to make this squad, not net spend. Our wages put us mid table, and frankly that is where we are.

The wheels have properly come off of Les' "Southampton Way" this season.

Boring football, no plan B, poor transfer dealings and a serious dent in brand recognition and supporter happiness.

People can scream "8th place and a final" all they want... The truth is we've got 46points, and game after game we have been unable put matches to bed when the other team have practically rolled over on their back asking us to tickle them senseless. (And I include the cup final in that list of games, just like Hull at home, Stoke at home, United at home etc etc etc etc - I actually lose count).

Puel has to go, he's lost the dressing room, and doesn't know how to score a goal with this team, let alone win a match atm.

Going 5 games without a goal at home is ultimately unacceptable, so while I'm not especially Puel out, I totally understand if/when Puel gets the boot.

We do actually have quite a distinct style of play and it can be very pleasing on the eye at times - falls down when we don't take our chances (has been the case all season), make a mess of the final ball (has happened a lot in the last few months), or that we don't quite have the players to fit the system.

Add a more combative ball winner alongside Romeu in place of Davis and a Sigurdsson type instead of JWP and things would click a lot more often I think.

You could criticize Puel and say that he should play a style that best fits his squad, but the obvious counter would be that he was setting the style now and will add further players that suit it this summer, which is entirely sensible.

Which of the two options above the board choose will probably decide his fate. I'd suggest a vocal chunk of our fans would go for option one and want to bin him, others feel he deserves a second season to build.

But what has happened over the past few months in terms of results and frustrations, coupled with Puel's perceived lack of charisma, means that everyone else is probably not that fussed if he stays or go. Which ultimately probably says that time's up

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

 

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

We tend to do it far too slowly so our gameplan is visible from the M3 and the opposition has plenty of chance to re-group. The wide players - although not sure they really are - have long since stopped taking players on and the full backs have a huge emphasis on them. Above all, the system needs 10 athletes with high technical ability for it work - at present we have a chasm between midfield and attack and we don't have the budget to buy that all in/Puel won't be allowed by Reed to bring his own type of players in bar the odd free like Pied. Put simply, we'd have to sell nearly all of the midfield options described by Les last summer as 'the best in the PL'. Bet he regrets that PR piece around PEH's signing!

The team looked good when it played 4-2-3-1 - why not get the best out of what you have and evolve towards your desired style over 3-4 transfer windows? Instead, he has been incredibly dogmatic and it is becoming evident that this has alienated the players long before the overwhelming majority of fans.

Redmond finishes top league goal scorer with 7, people aid we wouldn't miss Pele but we clearly did. No idea how we've finished 8th anyone know how many points are normally needed for a top ten finishes as it feels pretty low this season the mid table is massively compacted. I'd sack the manager as the way we play is dull dull dull.

Whilst I'm largely undecided, I think he has to go purely to combat the negative perception/atmosphere at home games. You can't start a new season with such a dearth of optimism, not when home form is so important (and by extension, crowd influence, etc).

Whilst I'm largely undecided, I think he has to go purely to combat the negative perception/atmosphere at home games. You can't start a new season with such a dearth of optimism, not when home form is so important (and by extension, crowd influence, etc).

If you lose the fanbase, or a large percentage of them, if you cant get a word of support from your Chairman and/or if your players are not particularly enamoured with you or the system you are trying to get them to play then you are on a hiding to nothing.

I truly believe if he improved his English this summer, people could yet take to him. There's a wise football brain in there, but the fact that we fans, and maybe the players too at times, don't get to see it clearly, has not done him any favours. The Echo doesn't help either by transcribing his comments word for word, instead of - like the BBC and ever national newspaper - editing for intent.

71% want him out on the echo poll !

Bloke is terrified of the counter attack so plays one up at home and paralyses the midfield. Its like a mental problem with him. He wont change. Same risk free **** next season if he stays.

I truly believe if he improved his English this summer, people could yet take to him. There's a wise football brain in there, but the fact that we fans, and maybe the players too at times, don't get to see it clearly, has not done him any favours. The Echo doesn't help either by transcribing his comments word for word, instead of - like the BBC and ever national newspaper - editing for intent.

Would depend on the players - and I think that will do for him more than anything. Steve McLaren also has a sharp football brain but football has got a view on him industry-wide and players don't respond him to anymore. Claude isn't at that point yet but another season at SMS could make him unemployable. The club then suffers - not just on the playing field either. Saints got Dimplex as a very last minute sponsor (grateful to them) at the height of the Branfoot unrest with players and fans - and we were a PL club. Nobody wanted to be associated with it or people that were making/not making decisions - one of the few things I'm ITK on.

Also, it'll come down to corporate fit. Sturrock's results weren't that bad but the players allegedly didn't find him professional enough and that latched on to Lowe's existing doubts via feedback. Remember, Kreuger has already addressed the players at Everton - and that is highly unusual before a game.

No idea how we've finished 8th anyone know how many points are normally needed

The last few seasons 8th place required 56-60 points.

Finishing 8th with 46 points is unprecedented. You would normally finish 12-13th place

46 Points

2017 8th

2016 13th

2015 13th

2014 11th

2013 11th

2012 13th

2011 15th

2010 12th

2009 12th

2008 11th

2007 11th

2006 14th

2005 12th

2004 13th

2003 16th

No, not at all. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

The style is clearly to build along the deck, through midfield, using short passing where possible and then to create openings through either interchanging around the box or creating two-on-ones out wide.

 

We tend to do that quite well. Where it usually goes wrong is the final pass or the final finish.

Why does this style have to be soo painfully slow allowing the entire opposition team to get back and defend ?

This style , although clear to you , is patently ineffective and Puel is unable to grasp that .

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I truly believe if he improved his English this summer, people could yet take to him. There's a wise football brain in there, but the fact that we fans, and maybe the players too at times, don't get to see it clearly, has not done him any favours. The Echo doesn't help either by transcribing his comments word for word, instead of - like the BBC and ever national newspaper - editing for intent.

Problem is he doesn't take any lessons. Said he has no time for that and will learn english as he goes along.

Maybe the club needs to impose him this.

If you listen to him in interviews in french, it is worlds apart from what he is saying in englidh as he hasn t got the grasp of the english vocabulary.

Redmond finishes top league goal scorer with 7, people said we wouldn't miss Pele but we clearly did. No idea how we've finished 8th anyone know how many points are normally needed for a top ten finishes as it feels pretty low this season the mid table is massively compacted. I'd sack the manager as the way we play is dull dull dull.

Where's that **** that used to moan when Pelle even breathed? He was a great player for us who, like Lambert before him, did way more in his link up with other players than was appreciated. For the first time in nearly 10 years, we are playing without a strong target man up top, and we are half the side for it.

The last few seasons 8th place required 56-60 points.

 

Finishing 8th with 46 points is unprecedented. You would normally finish 12-13th place

 

 

46 Points

2017 8th

2016 13th

2015 13th

2014 11th

2013 11th

2012 13th

2011 15th

2010 12th

2009 12th

2008 11th

2007 11th

2006 14th

2005 12th

2004 13th

2003 16th

Fair point. This year the "big" teams improved significantly particularly when compared with the previous season. Without analysing the season's stats, our poor record against teams above us (only one win against Everton) explains why we ended up with so few points. Last year I remember wins against Man U, Chelsea, the Boxing Day massacre of Arsenal, 3-2 comeback win over Liverpool (I wonder what Klopp said to Mane when he grabbed him after the final whistle?) and a win at Spurs. It would not surprise me if the "rest" had similar issues.

I do wonder what the board are allowing us to aspire to, and whether we have to accept the occasional poorer season. I heard on the radio leaving the ground that Stoke finished 13th this season after three seasons at 9th, yet they seemed content with Sparky.It was only four years ago we were celebrating finishing 8th under Poch having lost to Sunderland in both cups, but we had a full house for the lap of appreciation.

Also interesting stats about what position 46 points would achieve made me wonder how teams have performed after reaching the safety of 40 points. Clearly this season West Brom, Stoke and Watford and a lesser extent , Saints faded badly after passing the safety of 40 points.

On the other hand seven wins from the last nine games under Koeman made last season look particularly good .

71% want him out on the echo poll !

That`s it then... voice of the masses...

Trouble is, Les would have to be making an admission he made the wrong appointment if he does sack Puel. Suspect pride may play a part

 

 

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This is why I don't think it will happen.

Even if he did admit he made the wrong appointment, he'd probably take his time to actually sack him and then take even longer to appoint someone.

Despite all this waffle we're fed about having people lined up for every position on and off the pitch, actions speak louder than words and his actions suggest that is not the case.

If he's going to be sacked, it should happen this week or not at all.

I do wonder what the board are allowing us to aspire to, and whether we have to accept the occasional poorer season. I heard on the radio leaving the ground that Stoke finished 13th this season after three seasons at 9th, yet they seemed content with Sparky.It was only four years ago we were celebrating finishing 8th under Poch having lost to Sunderland in both cups, but we had a full house for the lap of appreciation..

On the train back there was 4 Stoke fans coming back to Poole. They weren't happy with Hughes at all. They did think it laughable that some Saints fans didn't think 8th was good enough.

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If you listen to him in interviews in french, it is worlds apart from what he is saying in englidh as he hasn t got the grasp of the english vocabulary.

I agree with this. I get quite fed up with people moaning because he uses the terms 'interesting' and 'possibilities'.

Perhaps instead of interesting, if he said "I'm over the moon with the performance" or "I'm sick as a parrot" or 'triffic' everyone would start to like him more.

The last few seasons 8th place required 56-60 points.

 

Finishing 8th with 46 points is unprecedented. You would normally finish 12-13th place

 

 

46 Points

2017 8th

2016 13th

2015 13th

2014 11th

2013 11th

2012 13th

2011 15th

2010 12th

2009 12th

2008 11th

2007 11th

2006 14th

2005 12th

2004 13th

2003 16th

Sums it up for me, our league form has been garbage hidden by a weird season in which 46 points makes us the best of the rest and our exit from the Europa league when we got to a point where getting out of the group looked a fore gone conclusion was massively disappointing. The league cup run really was the only highlight and credit to Puel for sticking out decent sides and out foxing Liverpool brilliantly but it's not enough to make up for the brand of football we currently play.

A peculiar situation where if Puel keeps his job he could be considered lucky and if he loses his job it could be considered unlucky.

There are a lot of mitigate circumstances this season that he could point to in order to be given another season. Some of them include recruitment, injuries and the fixture schedule. He didn't miss all those chances and penalties (not that if we had taken them we would have finished higher in the table!). He will say despite that he has delivered an 8th place finish and a cup final. And not hesitated to give chances to young players.

On the other hand the charges against him seem considerable. Has he really got the most out of what he has had available? Has his rotation at the start of the season been justified with performances in the last third? Has he tactically evolved to address the issues we saw in the first month of the season? And, most importantly, are the players in the squad behind him?

It's tough. And I do wonder what Les Reed is thinking. If Reed is privately expecting some high profile players to leave then would it make sense to keep Puel from a continuity perspective? Or would it better to get a new Manager in and appease certain individuals?

So I think it comes down to this:

1. Could we get someone on paper who is better than Puel?

2. If we did how does this impact our prospects of keeping our better players?

Therefore it's nothing to do with performances this season, it's all about the future and what sort of Manager we can get and what the players think. Anything else is just noise I think.

In terms of points won this season compared with last, we've declined more than any other club except Leicester (equal with W Ham)

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On the train back there was 4 Stoke fans coming back to Poole. They weren't happy with Hughes at all. They did think it laughable that some Saints fans didn't think 8th was good enough.

 

 

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Once again, who has said that 8th isn't good enough and for this reason alone we want him gone? why do you keep making things up to try and justify your point?

I'd have been quite content coming eighth but playing good, attacking football. But the way it is holds no prospects for next season whatsoever. Have they had the review yet? Highlights package wouldn't have taken that long...

The team that Puel picks as a first team contains a decent enough defence plus Romeu and a striker then four from Davis, JWP, Tadic, Boufal and marginally Redmond who are occupying goal scoring positions but have no scoring instinct or record. Hence the abysmal scoring record. When we did score and win it was Rodriguez then dropped, Clasie dropped, Long dropped, plus Hojbjerg so the next game back to the same nonsense producing another sterile no goal performance. Stupidity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting a different result.

He is not the wise old manager, he is a stubborn manager out of his depth producing underperforming teams by design and ignoring other options which could work eg WBA, and Middlesborough away when his first choices weren't available. The sooner we get rid of him the better and then steady the ship and bring all the players into the fold.

Once again, who has said that 8th isn't good enough and for this reason alone we want him gone? why do you keep making things up to try and justify your point?

How about this.....

Last year the champions got 29% more points than us. The season before that, the champions got 45% more points than us. This year's champions got 102% more points than us.

Now is the time to move on this.

David Moyes is available again.... lets get him in *scared*

yep, the merry go round has officially started

When did points won or % of points as opposed to the champions, start becoming the measure of a team's performance. When we finished 2nd the points total would have got us 3rd & 4th the following 2 seasons, don't recall too many suggesting 2nd was somehow not as good as other 2nd's.

We were the 8th team in the country under Poch. We were the 8th best team in the country under Puel. End of.

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On the train back there was 4 Stoke fans coming back to Poole. They weren't happy with Hughes at all. They did think it laughable that some Saints fans didn't think 8th was good enough.

 

 

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I've not seen or heard any Saints fans saying that 8th is not good enough though.

It's much more about the direction that Puel is taking us in terms of style of football, goals and entertainment.

When did points won or % of points as opposed to the champions, start becoming the measure of a team's performance. When we finished 2nd the points total would have got us 3rd & 4th the following 2 seasons, don't recall too many suggesting 2nd was somehow not as good as other 2nd's.

 

We were the 8th team in the country under Poch. We were the 8th best team in the country under Puel. End of.

 

 

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Wow. You should be up for Trump's press spokesman role

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When did points won or % of points as opposed to the champions, start becoming the measure of a team's performance. When we finished 2nd the points total would have got us 3rd & 4th the following 2 seasons, don't recall too many suggesting 2nd was somehow not as good as other 2nd's.

 

We were the 8th team in the country under Poch. We were the 8th best team in the country under Puel. End of.

 

 

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Good lad, though it was better with your West Ham joke. Should be a quick performance review, then...

Wow. You should be up for Trump's press spokesman role

 

 

My view is the team that finishes 8th deserves to finish 8th and are therefore the 8th best team in England. That's been the historical way teams are judged . Just because it doesn't support their agenda, people are looking around for new measures. I'm sure there's plenty of Puel out bods who were absolutely gutted when they found out Boscombe & West Brom didn't win.

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IMO the whole club, players, board, manager coaches etc knew this would be a tough season and the objective was to reach 40 points.

Once we had done this, it was difficult to motivate everyone. Also, we had been to a Cup final which was a bonus. So, our season simply petered out. If you think we were the only ones, well look at WBA. They reached 40 points in late January and thereafter put the deckchairs out. The fact is that clubs like Saints have only really one aim in the league, survival. Once achieved their is little incentive to push on. That is why in the middle of the league there is so little difference. The only competition is in the top 5 and the bottom three or four.

IMO the whole club, players, board, manager coaches etc knew this would be a tough season and the objective was to reach 40 points.

 

Once we had done this, it was difficult to motivate everyone. Also, we had been to a Cup final which was a bonus. So, our season simply petered out. If you think we were the only ones, well look at WBA. They reached 40 points in late January and thereafter put the deckchairs out. The fact is that clubs like Saints have only really one aim in the league, survival. Once achieved their is little incentive to push on. That is why in the middle of the league there is so little difference. The only competition is in the top 5 and the bottom three or four.

Not our fault that the big six were great and the rest (bar Everton) were ****. You can only draw 0-0 with what they put in front of you.