Puel out

Interesting but Careres may acrually be far superior to Stephens and Koeman would play a style more suited to Jrod .

Cuco ? Well possibly yes . We still won more games under Koeman though .

 

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Koeman did - but he had Mane, Wanyama and a fit VVD to pull some strings for him.

Koeman did - but he had Mane, Wanyama and a fit VVD to pull some strings for him.

And a formation to make the most of the players he had . Puel just doesn't do this .

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And a formation to make the most of the players he had . Puel just doesn't do this .

 

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Just out of interest, what formation would you have played recently (with the available players) that would make a significant difference?

Just out of interest, what formation would you have played recently (with the available players) that would make a significant difference?

He has no idea at all, just sounding off, again!, the only suggestion he has is for us to play to suit Jay....

And a formation to make the most of the players he had . Puel just doesn't do this .

 

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What do you actually want to be honest? You didn't rate Koeman either.

We are so damned average its painful . Can't finish and can't defend .

 

Koeman is doing anything but improving us

 

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I'm not sure what you expect, you seem a little confused with your expectations.

There's the difference between Puel & Koeman. Our 3 subs coming on, under Koeman Cuco the clown would have played, Caceres would have played, JRod would have come on.

 

Puel is going to be great for the future of this club & some of you lot will end up with egg on your faces.

 

 

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I can't wait. They are all going to look very, very silly indeed.

In any case, how stupid do you have to be to want to get rid of Puel?? What on earth were these people expecting, a Champions League place?

I can't wait. They are all going to look very, very silly indeed.

 

In any case, how stupid do you have to be to want to get rid of Puel?? What on earth were these people expecting, a Champions League place?

He's done a decent job. Losing Austin & Virgil respectively were huge blows.

Couple this with selling Fonte & not replacing him, I'd say he's done well to keep us up where he has.

Let's hope he doesn't get stitched up in the summer & he's given the tools to work with.

What do you actually want to be honest? You didn't rate Koeman either.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you expect, you seem a little confused with your expectations.

He's done a decent job. Losing Austin & Virgil respectively were huge blows.

 

Couple this with selling Fonte & not replacing him, I'd say he's done well to keep us up where he has.

 

Let's hope he doesn't get stitched up in the summer & he's given the tools to work with.

Absolutely this.

I can't wait. They are all going to look very, very silly indeed.

 

In any case, how stupid do you have to be to want to get rid of Puel?? What on earth were these people expecting, a Champions League place?

From a personal point of view, this season I expected entertaining football (we've not seen enough of that this season), get out of that group in EL (failed on this front), given the early exit, to challenge top 7 of PL to go again in the EL the following year (failed on this front).

Not a fan of Puel, as a manager, however accept that he's been unlucky with Injury to VVD & Austin (who knows how the final would have ended with VVD), got us to the final (strange we celebrate getting to the final as success but hey ho), integrated some of the younger players who didn't get a look in last year and finally changed formation to make us better in the final 3rd. On the whole, I feel like he deserves until at least Christmas to prove me wrong (which I really hope he does as he seems a decent bloke).

From what I've seen this season I'd say Puel is a average mid table PL manager. As a fan I find it astonishing that some appear to see mid-table meritocracy as a success, but each to their own. We used to be 'best of the rest' (which I don't feel is unrealistic to ask given our recent history) however this season we're not, so you can only say we've gone backwards / stood still and been overtaken, you take your pick (but have to take in factors mentioned above).

Not all of that is down to Puel, as Reed / the recruitment team need to take some of the blame. It was obvious to everyone that going into the season relying on Austin (guaranteed 1 injury a season), JRod (not really played since injury) and Long (10 goals a season at best) wouldn't be enough. That combined with the failure to bring in a preferred CB in January probably cost us the cup.

Puel needs to be backed this summer, not only in bringing in players he wants, but also keeping hold of most of the current squad. Reed also needs to get this 50% of the team coming from the academy dream out of his head as it simply will not happen (at the top level anyway).

What do you actually want to be honest? You didn't rate Koeman either.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you expect, you seem a little confused with your expectations.

I never pretended to like Koeman but he was a far better manager than Puel .

I would try 3 CB's to try and shore up the defence and try to use a midfield which is able to retain the ball . Playing Prowse and Davis means Romeu is our sole defensive midfielder. This invites more pressure on our defence .

Thanks for the constant insults Always SFC . Lovely to see you still crave attention even though you lack your own opinion ?

Can't wait for the abusive Pm's to start again ?

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Mouth breathers love it when we lose.

I never pretended to like Koeman but he was a far better manager than Puel .

 

I would try 3 CB's to try and shore up the defence and try to use a midfield which is able to retain the ball . Playing Prowse and Davis means Romeu is our sole defensive midfielder. This invites more pressure on our defence .

 

Thanks for the constant insults Always SFC . Lovely to see you still crave attention even though you lack your own opinion

 

Can't wait for the abusive Pm's to start again

 

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err we only have 3 CBs available in the squad (and one of those is really a full back) we also only have one DM Romeu so playing a second basically means shoehorning in one of JWP/Clasie/HoJ or Davis none of who are proper DMs so basically you want Puel to play a system he really doesn't have the players for. Nothing wrong with trying those suggestions if we had the right players to do so but right now with injuries and inadequate replacements after player sales Puels options are pretty limited.

err we only have 3 CBs available in the squad (and one of those is really a full back) we also only have one DM Romeu so playing a second basically means shoehorning in one of JWP/Clasie/HoJ or Davis none of who are proper DMs so basically you want Puel to play a system he really doesn't have the players for. Nothing wrong with trying those suggestions if we had the right players to do so but right now with injuries and inadequate replacements after player sales Puels options are pretty limited.

He seems ideally suited to the right-hand side of a back three (CBs) then. Though obiously there's no playing him if he doesnt feature in our long-term plans.

He has no idea at all, just sounding off, again!, the only suggestion he has is for us to play to suit Jay....

I never pretended to like Koeman but he was a far better manager than Puel .

 

I would try 3 CB's to try and shore up the defence and try to use a midfield which is able to retain the ball . Playing Prowse and Davis means Romeu is our sole defensive midfielder. This invites more pressure on our defence .

 

Thanks for the constant insults Always SFC . Lovely to see you still crave attention even though you lack your own opinion

 

Can't wait for the abusive Pm's to start again

 

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I`m not sure you can actually read, there were no insults just stating you had no idea and were sounding off, if you feel that is insulting then i suggest you are a very sensitive soul.

Regarding the pm`s, i still have your sick abusive ones

I'm of the position that Puel needs more time to tailor the squad to how he wants it to be. Apart from Gabbiadini, who of the main strikers play the way he wants to or is suited to a possession based style? Shane Long and arguably Charlie Austin aren't to be honest, and Jay Rod for me isn't reliable enough to pin our hopes on.

Koeman was given leeway to bring in players who fit the way he wants to play, but from what has been said before isn't the same way Saints would prefer to play. Personally I'd like to see him be allowed to sell the players that don't fit but more importantly be allowed a sizeable budget on top of whatever we get from sales to bring in players who are better suited.

For me that includes a new GK, another CB (2 if VVD goes), another LB to replace Bertrand were he to leave, a DM and 1/2 forwards, whether that be a striker like Gabbiadini or someone who can play out wide like Jay Rod used to under Pochettino.

I would try 3 CB's to try and shore up the defence and try to use a midfield which is able to retain the ball . Playing Prowse and Davis means Romeu is our sole defensive midfielder. This invites more pressure on our defence .

 

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Interesting idea to go 3-4-3. I can see it working with Cedric, Romeu, Davis and Bertrand as the 4, then three from Gabbi, Long, Redmond, Tadic, JWP and Boufal up front. Our bench would be light on defenders though. I wouldn't put another DM in the middle of the 4 as that's more than enough defensive cover with 5 defenders already. I'm not convinced it would improve the balance or shape of the team at this stage, but might have been a consideration if we needed to get out of a rut earlier in the season - a Koeman used it for a couple of games last season.

I'm of the position that Puel needs more time to tailor the squad to how he wants it to be. Apart from Gabbiadini, who of the main strikers play the way he wants to or is suited to a possession based style? Shane Long and arguably Charlie Austin aren't to be honest, and Jay Rod for me isn't reliable enough to pin our hopes on.

 

Koeman was given leeway to bring in players who fit the way he wants to play, but from what has been said before isn't the same way Saints would prefer to play. Personally I'd like to see him be allowed to sell the players that don't fit but more importantly be allowed a sizeable budget on top of whatever we get from sales to bring in players who are better suited.

 

For me that includes a new GK, another CB (2 if VVD goes), another LB to replace Bertrand were he to leave, a DM and 1/2 forwards, whether that be a striker like Gabbiadini or someone who can play out wide like Jay Rod used to under Pochettino.

Yes, exactly.

This is obviously a sensible viewpoint. It does require the ability to defer gratification and think further than the end of your pint glass / cigarette / vape machine though so I can see why some people struggle to realise.

I'm of the position that Puel needs more time to tailor the squad to how he wants it to be. Apart from Gabbiadini, who of the main strikers play the way he wants to or is suited to a possession based style? Shane Long and arguably Charlie Austin aren't to be honest, and Jay Rod for me isn't reliable enough to pin our hopes on.

 

Koeman was given leeway to bring in players who fit the way he wants to play, but from what has been said before isn't the same way Saints would prefer to play. Personally I'd like to see him be allowed to sell the players that don't fit but more importantly be allowed a sizeable budget on top of whatever we get from sales to bring in players who are better suited.

 

For me that includes a new GK, another CB (2 if VVD goes), another LB to replace Bertrand were he to leave, a DM and 1/2 forwards, whether that be a striker like Gabbiadini or someone who can play out wide like Jay Rod used to under Pochettino.

Yes I would agree he needs time to build a squad and, if he gets it, he is very lucky because not many managers get that luxury these days.

In my mind it does contradict previous policies which implied players were purchased with a view to the clubs needs not the manager needs which avoided being left with a squad an incoming manager didn't want?

Yes I would agree he needs time to build a squad and, if he gets it, he is very lucky because not many managers get that luxury these days.

In my mind it does contradict previous policies which implied players were purchased with a view to the clubs needs not the manager needs which avoided being left with a squad an incoming manager didn't want?

Koeman had final say (which he should have had as manager), but if Puel is more in line with how the club want to operate on and off the pitch then it'll go back towards the players being better suited for the next manager, instead of having a manager who wanted to go against the policies in some aspects.

For me I hope we would add pace in attack and more muscle in defence/ centre mid.

He's done ok considering the injuries he's had to deal with.

The question is, do the board think he's done well enough up until now to improve us in the future?

Is there a better alternative?

Do we need some continuity?

I reckon he deserves a fair crack of the whip.

If really haven't made my mind up about Puel, but I do ask myself, with the players available to him, would another manager have done any better or any worse?

I really like what Puel's bringing and this season was always going to be a transitional season. A lot of fans want too much too soon. We need to establish some stability in the squad and the manager and the playstyle- something we haven't had in quite a while. Once we have that, one of Puel's best qualities will come into play; he's a player coach and can improve players (yoshida, prowse, romeu etc). This means that we'll have some star players in VVD/Bertrand/Gabby, but we'll have transformed our deadwood players into good squad players. Some of our deadwood players right now (Martina) can't be helped, but others (Hojbjerg etc) can definitely be.

The style of play has never been an issue for me because in my eyes he's trying to make us play exciting passing possession football, albeit frustrating when we don't have a cutting edge, but we have the players to give us that spark. Next season will be a special one as long as we keep some of our key players- can see Sims coming in the team more often next season too.

Finally, I believe that Puel has a clear ethos,style and way he wants to do things. Some players will be happy with that and adapt (Romeu, Cedric) and others will clash and leave (Fonte, maybe more). I am more than happy for him to continue as our manager.

If really haven't made my mind up about Puel, but I do ask myself, with the players available to him, would another manager have done any better or any worse?

I'm sure some managers would have done better this season in terms of league points/position, perhaps managers who rely less on a style of play or a 'philosophy', but rather on tactically preparing for each game differently, or taking a more pragmatic approach. I'm not sure this should necessarily used against Puel though, as in the longer term I think the ceiling is higher for how he is preparing the team.

For example, Pulis has got West Brom to 8th. Ok, our players wouldn't suit his style anyway, but just because they are above us and Pulis clearly knows how to get results, doesn't mean I'd prefer him to Puel.

If we get one or two players that strengthen the team and we then have another season like this campaign, I don't think that's good enough, but in that scenario I have a feeling we'll be faring a lot better next season.

I really like what Puel's bringing and this season was always going to be a transitional season. A lot of fans want too much too soon. We need to establish some stability in the squad and the manager and the playstyle- something we haven't had in quite a while. Once we have that, one of Puel's best qualities will come into play; he's a player coach and can improve players (yoshida, prowse, romeu etc). This means that we'll have some star players in VVD/Bertrand/Gabby, but we'll have transformed our deadwood players into good squad players. Some of our deadwood players right now (Martina) can't be helped, but others (Hojbjerg etc) can definitely be.

The style of play has never been an issue for me because in my eyes he's trying to make us play exciting passing possession football, albeit frustrating when we don't have a cutting edge, but we have the players to give us that spark. Next season will be a special one as long as we keep some of our key players- can see Sims coming in the team more often next season too.

Finally, I believe that Puel has a clear ethos,style and way he wants to do things. Some players will be happy with that and adapt (Romeu, Cedric) and others will clash and leave (Fonte, maybe more). I am more than happy for him to continue as our manager.

That's a big 'if' unfortunately.

If really haven't made my mind up about Puel, but I do ask myself, with the players available to him, would another manager have done any better or any worse?

This does indeed seem to be the pertinent question. But when you consider the amount of games he's had to contend with, coupled with the amount of holes that he's had to plug, I'd say he's done a pretty good job. Maybe nothing spectacular but certainly enough to warrant another season.

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Solid analysis from L'Equipe.

 

Solid analysis from L'Equipe.

Good to see context. How are Harry, Tim and Peter Reid ranked?

 

Solid analysis from L'Equipe.

So for those wanting to replace him you need to look from 29 down

http://www.lequipe.fr/Top/Football/top_50_entraineur_2017/11/

The new owners will likely want their own man so any debate over his performance this season could prove pointless.

So Howe is the best English manager? What a load of crap!

Believe this and you'll believe anything. Puel at 29 and better than Koeman, you couldn't make it up except of course that they did.

Isn't L'Equipe French? Mais oui monsieur... says it all really.

Ha ha, before I read it i thought you meant #29 in the PL. I was ok with that analysis.

The new owners will likely want their own man so any debate over his performance this season could prove pointless.

Oh god it will be Sven-Göran Eriksson or some other old has been with a name people in China will know...

The new owners will likely want their own man so any debate over his performance this season could prove pointless.

So Les is leaving then?

So Les is leaving then?

2 birds one stone

He's done a decent job. Losing Austin & Virgil respectively were huge blows.

 

Couple this with selling Fonte & not replacing him, I'd say he's done well to keep us up where he has.

 

Let's hope he doesn't get stitched up in the summer & he's given the tools to work with.

100% this. If Fonte was not such a **** and VVD did not get injured I am sure we would have had silverware in the bag as well. He is a very tactical manager, just look at the job he did in the semi final in both legs against Liverpool. We shut out a team that can score for fun.

Ok it does go wrong sometimes, (home game in our last group match in Europe springs to mind)but he is human and this is football. The bloke has done a pretty good juggling act, with our cup run, Europe and a mid table finish. I'm pretty impressed if I am honest.

Looking forward to next season.

100% this. If Fonte was not such a **** and VVD did not get injured I am sure we would have had silverware in the bag as well. He is a very tactical manager, just look at the job he did in the semi final in both legs against Liverpool. We shut out a team that can score for fun.

 

Ok it does go wrong sometimes, (home game in our last group match in Europe springs to mind)but he is human and this is football. The bloke has done a pretty good juggling act, with our cup run, Europe and a mid table finish. I'm pretty impressed if I am honest.

 

Looking forward to next season.

Shut them out? over the 2 legs they had 24 shots (8 on target).

L'Équipe is right though. He has done an amazing job, considering the extra games and all of the injuries that we've had.

Meanwhile, Koeman spent a load of money, had one of the best strikers in the league, and still will probably only finish in 7th. Embarrassing really.

L'Équipe is right though. He has done an amazing job, considering the extra games and all of the injuries that we've had.

 

Meanwhile, Koeman spent a load of money, had one of the best strikers in the league, and still will probably only finish in 7th. Embarrassing really.

Koeman has taken them from 11th to 7th, and will finish up more than 14 points higher this year. I think he has done a very good job.

I also think Puel has done a good job. Battling for 10th with all the injuries and CL games, plus making a run at a Cup, is a good season. Austin, VVD, and Targett were all big loses. I believe even now, after not playing since December, Austin is still our leading scorer.

Koeman has taken them from 11th to 7th, and will finish up more than 14 points higher this year. I think he has done a very good job.

 

I also think Puel has done a good job. Battling for 10th with all the injuries and CL games, plus making a run at a Cup, is a good season. Austin, VVD, and Targett were all big loses. I believe even now, after not playing since December, Austin is still our leading scorer.

Yeah, our season never recovered after the injury to Matty Targett. Reckon we'd be nailed on top four otherwise.

Koeman has taken them from 11th to 7th, and will finish up more than 14 points higher this year. I think he has done a very good job.

 

I also think Puel has done a good job. Battling for 10th with all the injuries and CL games, plus making a run at a Cup, is a good season. Austin, VVD, and Targett were all big loses. I believe even now, after not playing since December, Austin is still our leading scorer.

I think with Everton, they have seriously under achieved in previous years. Not entirely sure what Martinez did with the defense in training.

Koeman has taken on what was a decent squad with the likes of Lukaku, Barkley, Marallis, McCarthy, Baines etc and added a few little tweaks here and there. He's sorted out their defense for a start, so if he was able to do that they would have a better season. So he's done OK I'd say, not amazing, but he's at least got them performing to a more acceptable level and gives them grounds to build on for coming seasons.

Puel was in a totally different situation, we were always going to end up dropping a little this season and it seems as if Puel has taken the brunt of this. But in the same way as Everton had been underachieving, i think it's fair to say we really did overachieve in the last couple of seasons. Coupled with the insane amount of games and bunched up months we've had to contend with this year, and the fact that the entire first choice CB partnership has been ripped out, then to be finishing anywhere near we did last year is still a really good effort. I'll stand by what I said - 47-52 points as an end of season tally will be good and will likely see us finish Top half, which is a fair reflection of our current crop.

The 6th place last season was clearly an over-achievement. We were pretty crap for large parts of it and only a general weakness across the league (we finished above Chelsea and Liverpool and Leicester finished above everyone, FFS) and some match-winning turns by Mane clawed us up there. I would say Koeman got a bit lucky and our efforts against Midjtyland were embarrassing - worse than anything Puel has served up this season.

With both firing on all cylinders, our team that finished 8th under Poch would probably have beaten our team that finished 6th under Koeman, IMO.

I think with Everton, they have seriously under achieved in previous years. Not entirely sure what Martinez did with the defense in training.

 

Koeman has taken on what was a decent squad with the likes of Lukaku, Barkley, Marallis, McCarthy, Baines etc and added a few little tweaks here and there. He's sorted out their defense for a start, so if he was able to do that they would have a better season. So he's done OK I'd say, not amazing, but he's at least got them performing to a more acceptable level and gives them grounds to build on for coming seasons.

 

Puel was in a totally different situation, we were always going to end up dropping a little this season and it seems as if Puel has taken the brunt of this. But in the same way as Everton had been underachieving, i think it's fair to say we really did overachieve in the last couple of seasons. Coupled with the insane amount of games and bunched up months we've had to contend with this year, and the fact that the entire first choice CB partnership has been ripped out, then to be finishing anywhere near we did last year is still a really good effort. I'll stand by what I said - 47-52 points as an end of season tally will be good and will likely see us finish Top half, which is a fair reflection of our current crop.

Yet summer just gone

Not many Everton players would have made it in our team according to most on here

Look at the old threads about koeman and Everton to see that most thought he was at best, taking a sideways step at the time

Yet summer just gone

Not many Everton players would have made it in our team according to most on here

Look at the old threads about koeman and Everton to see that most thought he was at best, taking a sideways step at the time

I think that's a fair contention. Take Lukaku out of the Everton team and put him in ours this season and we would probably be doing better than they are now (we may even have won a cup and be in the latter stages of the Europa League, who knows). Puel had to play half the season without a competent or fit striker.

Other than that, I think Gueye would be a great partner for Romeu and Davis looks like a brilliant prospect for them but I'm not convinced anyone else is an obvious upgrade on a like-for-like basis.

And it is a sideways step. They aren't going to be doing any better than he did under us any time soon.

Shut them out? over the 2 legs they had 24 shots (8 on target).

Great defensive performance front to back that is lad. Especially as the 2nd leg was away at only 1 up! Oh and yes, shut them out. We did not concede over 180 minutes. Liverpool were the top scorers in the league at the time and are now joint top with Chelsea and Spurs scoring a massive 112 goals.

Liverpool have failed to score on only 4 occasions in the league this season. Man U - Hull - Burnley - Southampton

So we have shut Liverpool out on all 3 occasions this season. I would say that is doing a number on them! We still have to play them again though and I have to say I will be surprised if we do again.

Yet summer just gone

Not many Everton players would have made it in our team according to most on here

 

Look at the old threads about koeman and Everton to see that most thought he was at best, taking a sideways step at the time

It was a bit of a sideways step at the time, but I think he probably knew he'd taken us as far as he could...so he sort of jumped before the season unraveled.

At the start of the season I'd have taken Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy and Coleman for sure. They do/did have some dross like Barry, Oviedo, Robles etc though.

As of now, I'd have Williams in our CB now we don't have either VVD or Fonte.

I think that's a fair contention. Take Lukaku out of the Everton team and put him in ours this season and we would probably be doing better than they are now (we may even have won a cup and be in the latter stages of the Europa League, who knows).

even more so if Everton had to play half season with Shane Long and Jrod as their only fit strikers...

It was a bit of a sideways step at the time, but I think he probably knew he'd taken us as far as he could...so he sort of jumped before the season unraveled.

 

At the start of the season I'd have taken Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy and Coleman for sure. They do/did have some dross like Barry, Oviedo, Robles etc though.

 

As of now, I'd have Williams in our CB now we don't have either VVD or Fonte.

Agree, as of now - but not when we had Fonte and VVD.

Koeman took a club that have finished top eight in 8 of the last 10 seasons including 3 5th and 2 6th place finishes and took them to probably seventh.

He's a miracle worker and no mistake.

Let's see what Koeman does next season. Expectations will be higher & he'll have EL commitments.

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