Puel - In or Out?

In but I understand why some would jettison him already. The results have been indifferent, the football negative at times, his seemingly dour demeanour drives me nuts and some of Puel's starting xi's (I don't like the Tinkerman approach) and tactics are very questionable. Not getting out of that poor Europa League group was a disgrace. That said it's not all down to him. The team is arguably the weakest for a while and the performance levels of a few players (for whatever reasons) have been disappointing generally this season (e.g. Long, Rodriguez, Fonte, Redmond). If he's to be given a fair crack at the job Puel needs two or three transfer windows to mould the squad the way he wants it and the board needs to back him with decent quality signings. There'll be a lot more downs as well as ups in the next 12 months though.

That's a very fair summary and very much my own position.

Anyone that wants Puel sacked is a bit simple IMO.

Presumably people want us to be like Swansea who sack their manager every so often. That's really working out for them...

I always back he managers initially, you have to give them some time to put across their philosophies, tactics, signings and ideas before the team can gel, as rarely does any team just click when they get a new manager. Look at Conte at Chelsea this year, they took a while to click but now they're flying.

In Puel's case though I've become a tad doubtful. The signings made in the window were OK, but to put such faith in Redmond when everyone could see we were a natural striker short was concerning. Some of the results this season have been good, but some have also been worrying too. I do however like the way he's given youth a chance.

As to whether he should be 'in or out', well clearly he should be in, after all this was never going to be more than a transition season. It's not his fault that the traditional top 6 have all learned from the Leicester lesson, and if 7th is the best we can achieve this season, we're well in the running for it. IMO He should be judged at the end of this season to see whether we're making strides to improve, or regress into a team that sits lower mid-table or even battles relegation. We have a decent defence at present but I'm looking to see how he deals with the possible exits of Van Dijk (a huge hole to fill) and Fonte, and of course whether he can sign a striker.

Presumably people want us to be like Swansea who sack their manager every so often. That's really working out for them...

you have a point. if puel is the best we could get when we were good, i don't fancy our chances of replacing him well.

The simple fact is that players that we have all seen with our own eyes displaying a greater level of performance than they are at present, appear to be going, literally & metaphorically backwards under his leadership. He's taking good players and getting them to play so negatively, resulting in the ball going backwards & sideways at every opportunity, no one being brave on the ball and pushing forward, turning on the ball or playing an incisive pass and the level of expectation in the front players dropping to a point where they no longer try to 'make a run'

These are players whom we know can do these things and aren't, to me & a lot of the saints fans I know that suggests that they are following Puels instructions and the only time they do look threatening is when they change things using their own initiative.

The question which I have a nagging feeling about is whether there is a dressing room struggle between him & the players taking place? Can any of the resident ITK'ers answer that one?

No one asked for instant success, no need to be a **** and tell someone to support another team. We all want Saints to do well, but Puel isn't the man for the job. Our football is in his image - dull, boring and uninspiring. Time for a change.

BOO HOO HOO HOO, Pick your teddy up and put your bedding in the wash you pathetic tart.

We're 8th in the PL and we have a mid-table side, you know one composed of mid-table players. There's nothing to be changed in that by sacking Puel. If we want a top 6 side then we need to get some more top 6 players and pay them Top 6 salaries. It really is basic. We need a better AM, a better DM and a top notch striker, when we've got all of that we'll see about Puel's future.

Out for me.

I've seen no progression. Each game seems to be 10% brilliance and tempo followed by 90% of cluelessness from the team.

 

He's had more than enough time to stop them from hoofing it away and giving it straight back to the opposition too, who then come back and score.

 

There's little composure in the squad. You could see the shoulders fall when Spurs equalised. At least Puel seems to be more animated on the touchline than when he arrived but he seems to gesticulate more for camera effect than motivation. I sit close enough to the bench to see that he has little or no impact on the players on the pitch.

 

His greatest fault is however totally ignoring the quality we (still) have and insisting on playing a system they dont either understand and can't adapt from when it goes wrong. Koeman had worked out the teams individual strengths and was playing to them. To be fair, took him 6 months but with Koeman there was patience and a realisation that his problems were driven by Boardroom sales rather than a relatively stable squad.

 

Overall? It's not working. 8th place is flattering- more a result of the odd piece of individual brilliance by our half decent team. Puel has added nothing.

 

I think we should remove him asp. BUT... one rule in football is never let the manager go without identifying a better replacement first. Who is there out there? Eddie Howe? Would he leave? Would we pay out to get him - there's one difference with the two, Howe gets some results with mediocre players, Puel gets some results with ok and good ones. I can't see him coming yet - can't see a better replacement who's available, so we unfortunately have one choice - support the manager for the rest of the season.

 

We have a team that still could finish 8th and a manager who'll probably take us to 14th.

 

It won't be pretty football, it will be dull, boring, frustrating and the call for his head will get worse, but we need to start backing our team of some talented players- we need them to stay for the new manager and not give Les an opportunity to cash them in again.

Eddie Howe!? :lol: He would have us back in the Championship within two years, what's he actually achieved in the game? Eddie Howe FFS :lol: give me strength!!

Why do people even give posters like SaintRobbie airtime? He's a clear WUM but people continue to fall for it and re quote him so the rest of us have to suffer his bilge.

While not ready to throw in the towel on Puel yet, many of the performances this season have been unacceptable. Gutless, defensive rubbish.

I would much rather we threw caution to the wind and attacked with numbers (we have the players to do this) than try and eke out 1-0 wins, 0-0 draws, etc.

There is no doubt we need an AMC - although you could argue Boufal could do this as I personally think he looks dangerous just behind the forward. I think he is wasted out on the wing where he is isolated with little support.

As Turkish has said over on the UI we should go back to a 4-2-3-1 formation and get numbers forward to support attacks.

Our midfield is too lightweight and I would argue players like Hojberg need a run of games to get into rhythm as opposed to being rotated almost every game. Rotation, while maybe necessary during busy periods, seems to be affecting the fluency (or lack of) of our play.

Hopefully 3 points against WBA and a much improved performance although no doubt there will be 5 or 6 changes again.

SFC should look on here for the next appointment as several seem to know how its done and make it sound easy...

Come on Les... get one of these " super coaches" in .... they are wasted in their current roles...

SFC should look on here for the next appointment as several seem to know how its done and make it sound easy...

 

Come on Les... get one of these " super coaches" in .... they are wasted in their current roles...

Or appoint you next time we need a PR guru...Comical Ali was modelled on you - try a balanced view every now and then it works better rather than your blinkered everything is rosy approach.

Forums like this are for people to vent spleen and air their frustration - last night was not an isolated case was it? Just maybe we could be doing better?

Not misunderstood anything. You just erred factually pal and had to concoct some bizarre guff about suppressed premises

 

If you want to talk about substance, it's worth pointing out that we had no attacking players beyond Jrod, Lambert and Lallana that season.

We had zero pace in the side after Jrod tore his acl and were reliant on ageing lambert such that we had to throw a raw and completely unready Gallagher into the mix. Our lack of forward options was so bare that Cork played as an AM in a number of games (e.g. Everton, h).

 

Missing Boruc for nearly a quarter of the season cost us clear, identifiable points. The trip to the Etihad still sticks out in the memory. Jos also cost us points: his howlers against Spurs (h) and Newcastle (a) being obvious examples. I could go on.

Now you are really talking about something completely different pal.

You were wrong.

That's ok. You're probably wrong quite often, like most people. Learn to accept it pal.

No, pal, you have misunderstood the conversation, pal. The premise was that Pochettino underachieved. This was rebutted on the basis that he had to field a lot of poor players. Obviously the person making that rebuttal meant this was often the case - it would be odd to relieve someone of the charge of underachieving over a league season based on a tiny sample of league matches where a few crap players played.

 

So you're wrong, pal. You misunderstood the suppressed premises.

 

It's ok to be wrong. If you're wrong and a smarmy ****, though (pal), with a misguided sense of their own intelligence pal, people will think you're a bit of a cock though, pal.

Now that's one of the best put downs I've read in quite a while.

Or appoint you next time we need a PR guru...Comical Ali was modelled on you - try a balanced view every now and then it works better rather than your blinkered everything is rosy approach.

Forums like this are for people to vent spleen and air their frustration - last night was not an isolated case was it? Just maybe we could be doing better?

I am just a fan no more no less just because i accept that we cant play like world beaters every week and some times are s hite but dont feel the need

to go all out "everything is terrible" when we lose, equally dont get all overexcited when we win and proclaim everything is great.

We need to accept that sometimes we are poor and sometimes not, that is football always will be...

The extent of ott reactions after defeats are laughble and would be equally so if we went ott after a win.

Now that's one of the best put downs I've read in quite a while.

Not really a put down more a statement of the obvious tbh

I am just a fan no more no less just because i accept that we cant play like world beaters every week and some times are s hite but dont feel the need

to go all out "everything is terrible" when we lose, equally dont get all overexcited when we win and proclaim everything is great.

 

We need to accept that sometimes we are poor and sometimes not, that is football always will be...

 

The extent of ott reactions after defeats are laughble and would be equally so if we went ott after a win.

Fine I have no problem with that its very much me too however, I don't see the balance in your posts - I must look harder :-).

We all want to win and play great football, yes we may be 8th but IMO we could be top 6 and that why I am frustrated watching that poor display last night coupled with Hull, Be'er Shiva, Palace, Prague, it won't need much to put it right but similarly we could slip down to 10-14th with a few bad results.

I tell you Anyone who followed Saints home and away in the 90s through to relegation ought not to be voting out.

I've watched some dire shyte in my lifetime and this is not even close to some of that turd. Thread closed IMO

I tell you Anyone who followed Saints home and away in the 90s through to relegation ought not to be voting out.

I've watched some dire shyte in my lifetime and this is not even close to some of that turd. Thread closed IMO

well quite.

we are higher in the league than pretty much every club we have a reasonable hope of finishing above. We are in our first semi for 13 years.

It could be better, but it could be a lot , lot worse.

Jury might be out on Puel so far, but he can reasonably claim to have done a decent job,, given our status, fixture commitments and last summers sales.

Now you are really talking about something completely different pal.

 

You were wrong.

 

That's ok. You're probably wrong quite often, like most people. Learn to accept it pal.

You were wrong the first time as a simple matter of fact. And were shown up. No shame in that. You then claimed that the subject was really about whether MP underachieved. I pointed out some of the other factual constraints under which he and his squad operated to which you failed to respond. If I'm wrong, please tell me specifically where I'm wrong. But from your gratuitous, circular post, I imagine I'll be waiting a long time.

Christ I hope you're not as a much of dopey soft-touch offline as you are on here pal.

#suppressedpremises

Not really a put down more a statement of the obvious tbh

For someone who shouted from the rooftops they had me on ignore, you still seem curiously and unhealthily obsessed with me.

Pochetteino is easily the best manager we have had for a very long time

Pochetteino is easily the best manager we have had for a very long time

Dinlows are still working through their cortese issues to realise it. Bless them.

My vote at this stage has to be in. There's a clear (and wealthy) top 6 and we're just about best of the rest, and in a semi-final of note for the first time in years. Given the squad and continual upheaval that really is no mean feat, and to be able to continue to blood academy products is also a noteworthy success.

But ... I am frustrated, mostly by the negative football. I remember someone explaining how in most countries you try to win first, but in French football you try not to lose first, and wonder if puel is a product of this mentality. I love saints, but no one can convince me that this seasons football is enjoyable.

I don't have an issue with the rotation. People keep banging on about playing twice in 4 days, but it's not a one off, it's every week, so it's 3 times in 7 days, 4 in 11, 5 in 14 etc. If that isn't managed earlier in the season it will catch up with you. Remember the villa side under o'neill? Never changed his side and were on the verge of the top 4 for 2 or 3 seasons until about March when they fell off a cliff.

But again, I wonder if puel hasn't grasped the pace of English football and the need for fitness. After 20 minutes of pressing we stuck ten men behind the ball for the rest of the game, and yet Romeu, Davis and jwp all looked shot to pieces at the end? We look unfit, or at least off the pace, and negative. This is cause for concern long-term IMHO, but I think the risk of changing the manager at this stage is too great so would rather we stick as we are.

I probably err on the side of the happy clappers, but must confess I'm not particularly happy right now.

We're 8th in the PL and we have a mid-table side, you know one composed of mid-table players. There's nothing to be changed in that by sacking Puel. If we want a top 6 side then we need to get some more top 6 players and pay them Top 6 salaries. It really is basic. We need a better AM, a better DM and a top notch striker, when we've got all of that we'll see about Puel's future.

Just for clarity can you take a minute to list the top 6 players in the Leicester TEAM of last year and once you done with that just remind us where they finished!

Just for clarity can you take a minute to list the top 6 players in the Leicester TEAM of last year and once you done with that just remind us where they finished!

Fuchs, Mahrez, Kanté, Schmeichel and Vardy would all probably find a place in a Top 6 side.

When you have goalscorers going at the rate that Vardy and Mahrez did last season it make all the difference.

We have VvD and Forster as top flight players now, the rest are pretty so so. There's no axe or base as there was before.

When you buy a young guy from Bayern for 12 million there's a reason for that, especially when they replace him wirth a 30 million £ portuguese kid.

As far as I am concerned this is down to Les Reed and KL failing to support their new manager in the transfer market properly.

Last summers business was a total joke.

Puels motivation and tactics probably arent helping.

We would be mad to sack him now. However due to the style of football and lack of goals I would hope we are looking around at other options for the summer. Puel has done okay so far, we need to see what he does for the rest of the season.

What would be the point of sacking Puel when Les Reed has said he chose him as the perfect fit for our club? Being cynical, I'd say that means he was an easy-going chap who would do as Les Reed wanted him to do. Ultimately, Reed did not like Pochettino and Koeman's strong personalities and independence of thought and their objections to his high turnover transfer policy. I'm not sure any manager with a strong personality would want to work for Reed now anyway.

Reed is 65 next year so hopefully he will retire gracefully. Whatever he may have achieved in the past, his decision making in the last year has been poor and he seems out of touch with modern football people and the current transfer market. We need someone for the long-term future. Are we supposed to keep Reed until he's 70 or 75?

I'd replace him with Paul Mitchell, our former Head of Recruitment, who was the master of the black box responsible for selecting our best players and managers. He is young and intelliegent and he will be available when he sees out his Spurs contract in a year's time.

You get what you pay for sadly and Puel was a cheap appointment

We received a reported £6m compensation for Puel and had sold Wanyama, Mane and Pelle for a combined £60m

There was no reason or excuse to go cheap

Puel has won nothing as a manager in the last 16 years and in the time he has managed some of the bigger French clubs.... What was it Reed was so impressed with?

Pochetteino is easily the best manager we have had for a very long time

Not too sure I agree. We had a pretty fantastic team under Poch and frankly, didn't overachieve in the slightest by finishing 8th. We really ought to have finished higher.

Oh, and we never came from behind to win in his entire 18-month reign at the club. Never. Not once.

Pochetteino is easily the best manager we have had for a very long time

Although I've just been scathing on the Spurs post-match thread, jury is out for me. I'm not sure RK would have done much better at this stage although probably not quite as dire to watch.

He's not managed upwards well with Reed, we so obviously needed another striker in August but he just came across as a yes man and his comments on Redmond were very unfair on the player. He's had some good tactical games and some shockers like RK did. Mane has been a huge loss to be fair to the bloke and Boufal is only really match fit now and then off to ACON.

On the plus side, he's introduced McQueen well and found us a new signing in effect. He's got J Rod going again and got his injury-free quota from Austin. Sims wouldn't have featured under RK.

What he needs to win round a sceptical fanbase is more positive football but also a mentor that can help him with the scrutiny and focus on the PL so he can build an identity and some presence. It feels like the cleaner could be in charge for all the impact his media style has.

As far as I am concerned this is down to Les Reed and KL failing to support their new manager in the transfer market properly.

 

Last summers business was a total joke.

 

Puels motivation and tactics probably arent helping.

Your opinion on this subject is utterly irrelevant.

What would be the point of sacking Puel when Les Reed has said he chose him as the perfect fit for our club? Being cynical, I'd say that means he was an easy-going chap who would do as Les Reed wanted him to do. Ultimately, Reed did not like Pochettino and Koeman's strong personalities and independence of thought and their objections to his high turnover transfer policy. I'm not sure any manager with a strong personality would want to work for Reed now anyway.

 

Reed is 65 next year so hopefully he will retire gracefully. Whatever he may have achieved in the past, his decision making in the last year has been poor and he seems out of touch with modern football people and the current transfer market. We need someone for the long-term future. Are we supposed to keep Reed until he's 70 or 75?

 

I'd replace him with Paul Mitchell, our former Head of Recruitment, who was the master of the black box responsible for selecting our best players and managers. He is young and intelliegent and he will be available when he sees out his Spurs contract in a year's time.

Please provide evidence of this...

You get what you pay for sadly and Puel was a cheap appointment

 

We received a reported £6m compensation for Puel and had sold Wanyama, Mane and Pelle for a combined £60m

 

There was no reason or excuse to go cheap

 

Puel has won nothing as a manager in the last 16 years and in the time he has managed some of the bigger French clubs.... What was it Reed was so impressed with?

Yeah...why didn't we go for Mourinho or Guardiola FFS......

These players were all familiar and comfortable with 4-2-3-1 for which most of the players were brought in to play. Most Premier teams played a version demonstrated by Spurs last night comfortably playing possession football. Puel came in ditched the familiar system and replaced it with the diamond which didn't work, now flirting with a 4-3-3 and only one striker also not working. The best managers at any level play a system that suits the strengths and weaknesses of the available players thereby getting more out of the team.

When Puel came there was a lot of moaning about the negative football, give ten matches was a response, then give it to Christmas, Saturday is halfway, I still think we are playing poorly and getting points because of the defence not because of the football. I don't like the way we play, Redmond undroppable, only one striker and apart from the odd game sideways and backwards to a keeper that obviously doesn't want it.

Pochetteino is easily the best manager we have had for a very long time

He was excellent right enough.

These players were all familiar and comfortable with 4-2-3-1 for which most of the players were brought in to play. Most Premier teams played a version demonstrated by Spurs last night comfortably playing possession football. Puel came in ditched the familiar system and replaced it with the diamond which didn't work, now flirting with a 4-3-3 and only one striker also not working. The best managers at any level play a system that suits the strengths and weaknesses of the available players thereby getting more out of the team

 

When Puel came there was a lot of moaning about the negative football, give ten matches was a response, then give it to Christmas, Saturday is halfway, I still think we are playing poorly and getting points because of the defence not because of the football. I don't like the way we play, Redmond undroppable, only one striker and apart from the odd game sideways and backwards to a keeper that obviously doesn't want it.

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For goodness sake I wish you and others would stop going on and on about formations and systems. IMO people set far too much store by formations. You may remember when Pochetinno was manager, he, or one of his assistants, said, we don't play in positions we play from positions. Look at it that way and a series of numbers and positions on a screen or a sheet of paper don't mean very much but flexibility does. Our front three rotate. They do it. They're just not that effective yet. The biggest problem we've got is that Boufal and Redmond don't link with the striker. Tadic is better but he's been injured. Puel needs to sort that out and we'll score goals.

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For goodness sake I wish you and others would stop going on and on about formations and systems. IMO people set far too much store by formations. You may remember when Pochetinno was manager, he, or one of his assistants, said, we don't play in positions we play from positions. Look at it that way and a series of numbers and positions on a screen or a sheet of paper don't mean very much but flexibility does. Our front three rotate. They do it. They're just not that effective yet. The biggest problem we've got is that Boufal and Redmond don't link with the striker. Tadic is better but he's been injured. Puel needs to sort that out and we'll score goals.

Whatever Pochetinno said, he still played a back four, two holding midfield players and four attackers with Lambert pulling the strings and Rodriguez coming in off the left which suited them. Very much like Spurs last night. The framework suited the players ours didn't. I agree Boufal and Redmond don't link with the striker plus the midfielders don't run the channels. Redmond and Boufal play their own way and I can't see that changing.

We are eight, in semi final of league cup having knocked out Arsenal in quarter final, and could be seventh at halfway stage. And have played six more games than most, and even more than some. To even think about Puel being sacked is embarrasing

In, albeit with some reservations. I feel we are 2 or 3 players short of having a good enough first XI, and that's too many. People complain about formations but I'm not sure there is an obvious alternative that we would all play if in charge for a match. I'm a little concerned that Tadic isn't featuring in what appears to be Puel's first team, as I'd have him down as one of or best players. I would also like to see us press more, but that requires a level of fitness we probably (as some have alluded to above) don't possess.

We seem to be able to pull performances out the bag when most on here have written us off, and the faith being shown in youth is a key reason to be optimistic. The idea of playing in triangles and having a short passing game is decent and occasionally looks great. Unfortunately it too often becomes safe, sideways and boring but jury is still out for me whether that is a product of the players at Puel's disposal rather than his overriding strategy. Tottenham have such an athletic midfield compared to ours, it's no wonder they dominated us. Not sure that's Puel's fault, but if he fails to address it in Jan or in the summer it will be, as we can all see it. Same goes for goalscorers.

Until someone better comes along we probably need to stick with Puel, as he will keep us up easily enough, though it won't be much fun to watch. Top 6 are out of sight this season and with Liverpool in the LC semi European qualification looks doubtful. Which makes the EL attempt even more disappointing. We have waited a long long time for an opportunity to show our worth at that level and Puel's attitude to it was a disgrace, a borderline sackable failure on its own. I do wonder what his brief was from the club. I wish the Ranieri approach had been taken - sod the league until Christmas, just get out of the group. Very disappointed in our season so far.

The frustrating bit for me is that when we play well the football has been exciting to watch but I can count on one hand when we've actually played well under Puel. More often than not we have been negative and shy to do anything meaningful with the ball in the final third. The mentality seems to be not to lose rather than go out and win.

It was a complete joke how we dropped so deep against spurs after first 20 minutes. Spurs didn't do anything meaningful to put us on back foot, we just let them. This is down to Puel. Either he is tactically inept or the players are not responding to him.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

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For goodness sake I wish you and others would stop going on and on about formations and systems. IMO people set far too much store by formations. You may remember when Pochetinno was manager, he, or one of his assistants, said, we don't play in positions we play from positions. Look at it that way and a series of numbers and positions on a screen or a sheet of paper don't mean very much but flexibility does. Our front three rotate. They do it. They're just not that effective yet. The biggest problem we've got is that Boufal and Redmond don't link with the striker. Tadic is better but he's been injured. Puel needs to sort that out and we'll score goals.

There is a new breed of football geek. Like the Harry Enfield character that don't really get football but latched on to the boring part.

Who are you to question Puels motivation? How many team talks have you sat in on? How many players have you spoken to about this? In fact, how many games have you attended in the last 4/5 seasons?

 

Your opinion on this subject is utterly irrelevant.

And I really couldnt give a big, brown, steaming shiny one about your assessment of my opinion. As a Saints fan from afar and near as often as possible, I am entitled to an opinion. Puel does not inspire or motivate me with his interviews or pressers, so I have my strong doubts he manages to get to the players

And I really couldnt give a big, brown, steaming shiny one about your assessment of my opinion. As a Saints fan from afar and near as often as possible, I am entitled to an opinion. Puel does not inspire or motivate me with his interviews or pressers, so I have my strong doubts he manages to get to the players

Absolutely nothing inspires you and you get no joy from football. Everyone thinks you are an attention seeking clown

I think Puel is doing ok, We are 8th in the table I see this season as a transition. Wait until Puel is given the opportunity to clear out deadwood and bring in French talent that suits his philosophy. Yes we have players that have failed to adjust I.e Long however to sack Puel now would be a stupid move give the man a season at least...

As far as I am concerned being 4 places higher than last season at the half way stage and being in a cup semi final is down to Les Reed and KL

Tweaked it for you