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Referee Decisions


Wiggles31

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I really don't think the red card had a say on the final outcome. They killed us off on the break when we had to commit more men forward.

 

On the break with minus one man. Of course it had a huge impact. We were up against a well organised Spurs team but to have 10 men in any football game due to a shocking decision is going go significantly against your favour.

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Has the law been changed so that it isn't a red card if outside the area? That wasn't my interpretation of the rule change, simply that if there was a genuine attempt to play the ball (clearly not the case with Redmond pulling him back) then it should only be a yellow. A free kick and red card would have been correct if I have the right interpretation

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Has the law been changed so that it isn't a red card if outside the area? That wasn't my interpretation of the rule change, simply that if there was a genuine attempt to play the ball (clearly not the case with Redmond pulling him back) then it should only be a yellow. A free kick and red card would have been correct if I have the right interpretation

 

You are half right. A genuine attempt at the ball that results in a penalty is a yellow card. A foul denying a clear goal scoring opportunity, whether making a genuine attempt at the ball or not , outside of the area , is a red. The thinking is that a penalty is a genuine goal scoring opportunity , so one has not been denied, it is still one against one . A free kick outside the area is not one against one , so is not a clear goal scoring opportunity , so one has been denied.

 

Therefore, had Dean blown for the initial contact outside of the box, it would have been a red anyway as there was no covering player. As he gave a red and a penalty he obviously felt that Redmond didn't make a genuine attempt at the ball. Had he thought Redmond genuinely went for the ball it would have been a yellow.

 

I'm sure all the people moaning would be going nuts if we were denied a penalty in the same situation.

 

 

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Yea bad decision but by then we were already looking second best so let's not blame the dodgy pen decision on the fact it was men against boys. We started with 9 Prem players tonight. Ward_prowse and Redmond are Championship standard at best.
You are wrong about those players IMO
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People are misinterpreting the rule change, but the eventual decision was still as far wrong as it could've been. There was barely any, if any, contact made on Dele Alli in the box, it was not a penalty. It was possibly a foul outside the box when Redmond pulled his arm, which possibly would have warranted a red as it wasn't a genuine attempt to play the ball, but that contact ended a good half a yard before they entered the box, so he deemed it not a foul. Just awful all round. Whether we'd have won had he not made such a terrible error, probably not, but anyone who thinks a red card at 2-1 doesn't affect a game is absolutely dangerously mental, and anyone who says you can't blame a referee for losing a game is just as much.

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I am pleased that Dean gave the penalty. We will never defeat the cancer of diving if referees don't start giving fouls when players stay on their feet (and I know that Alli is a diving cheat 99% of the time). If someone gets fouled immediately after taking a shot, you very rarely see a penalty given; if it's after playing a pass, you always see a free-kick awarded.

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I am pleased that Dean gave the penalty. We will never defeat the cancer of diving if referees don't start giving fouls when players stay on their feet (and I know that Alli is a diving cheat 99% of the time). If someone gets fouled immediately after taking a shot, you very rarely see a penalty given; if it's after playing a pass, you always see a free-kick awarded.

 

Are you being serious?

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I am pleased that Dean gave the penalty. We will never defeat the cancer of diving if referees don't start giving fouls when players stay on their feet (and I know that Alli is a diving cheat 99% of the time). If someone gets fouled immediately after taking a shot, you very rarely see a penalty given; if it's after playing a pass, you always see a free-kick awarded.

 

There was no contact inside the penalty area. None whatsoever.

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Saints not appealing the red card !

 

Quite rightly.

 

The red card was the correct decision given that a foul occurred. I don't think we have any grounds to appeal. The penalty was incorrect but you can't appeal that.

 

The only way the red card is "wrong" is if you say that Dean let them have advantage and shouldn't have brought play back. ie. advantage was over by the time Alli missed. That's actually what most refs would have done, IMO, but he's a "look at me ref" and was clearly quite chuffed to be giving the penalty. But, again, I don't think you can appeal that.

 

And I doubt Redmond would have started against WBA anyway.

Edited by benjii
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I haven't had the chance to see it on the box yet, only from the view I had from the Northam stand (to be fair I am towards the back, was slightly drunk and wasn't wearing my glasses). But it looked very harsh.

 

To be honest I'm not that interested in a forensic examination of the rules - If the situation was reversed and it was a Spurs defender doing the same to a Saints attacker at WHL then I expect it could happen 100 times, watched by 100 different refs and we would be lucky if we got a free-kick on the edge of the area and the defender a yellow.

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Quite rightly.

 

The red card was the correct decision given that a foul occurred. I don't think we have any grounds to appeal. The penalty was incorrect but you can't appeal that.

 

The only way the red card is "wrong" is if you say that Dean let them have advantage and shouldn't have brought play back. ie. advantage was over by the time Alli missed. That's actually what most refs would have done, IMO, but he's a "look at me ref" and was clearly quite chuffed to be giving the penalty. But, again, I don't think you can appeal that.

 

And I doubt Redmond would have started against WBA anyway.

 

The only way that he could have given a red card was if he denied a clear goal scoring opportunity, which when you take into account he went on to have a completely unimpeded shot at goal, he wasn't. I do not understand how anyone could suggest otherwise and therefore say that the referee didn't get every single decision wrong in that passage of play because he did.

 

As for the clubs choice of not appealing the red card i am in full support of this as it takes the chance of Puel putting Redmond in the team for the next 3 matches out of his hands :-)

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funny how one of the worst ref'ing decisions is not being challenged by the club

 

why is that?

 

Because unlike the biased posters on here the club took the emotion out of it and realised it was pointless. To overturn a red card it needs to be a clear & obvious error. It was not a clear and obvious error. The only debate is whether it was a free kick outside the box or a penalty. Either way it was a red card once he gave the foul.

 

 

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Because unlike the biased posters on here the club took the emotion out of it and realised it was pointless. To overturn a red card it needs to be a clear & obvious error. It was not a clear and obvious error. The only debate is whether it was a free kick outside the box or a penalty. Either way it was a red card once he gave the foul.

 

 

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Correct.

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The issue is, as someone else posted, there is no consistency I've seen plenty of saints players suffer far worse than the minimal contact the spurs player suffered last night and been given **** all ( or worse booked for diving) it feels like refs just make it up half the time. Considering the spurs player easily made it in to the box and was still able to shoot despite Redmond's contact makes it a soft one for me if refs are going to enforce that I expect a lot more penos and sending's off in the second half of the season. I'm willing to bet if it had been the other way round Dean would have given nothing at all.

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The only way that he could have given a red card was if he denied a clear goal scoring opportunity, which when you take into account he went on to have a completely unimpeded shot at goal, he wasn't. I do not understand how anyone could suggest otherwise and therefore say that the referee didn't get every single decision wrong in that passage of play because he did.

 

As for the clubs choice of not appealing the red card i am in full support of this as it takes the chance of Puel putting Redmond in the team for the next 3 matches out of his hands :-)

 

The ref obviously thought that Alli was still being impeded when he shot or that the earlier foul was still affecting his poise / balance etc. - that's why he blew his whistle. Otherwise advantage would have been over and he wouldn't have blown the whistle. In the context of the decision he made the red card was correct. Whether it was the right decision or not is a different matter (obviously it wasn't) but you can't really appeal that - you appeal the application of the law.

 

And it will just be a one match suspension, I imagine.

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The ref obviously thought that Alli was still being impeded when he shot - that's why he blew his whistle. Otherwise advantage would have been over and he wouldn't have blown the whistle. In the context of the decision he made the red card was correct. Whether it was the right decision or not is a different matter (obviously it wasn't) but you can't really appeal that - you appeal the application of the law.

 

And it will just be a one match suspension, I imagine.

 

If it is just a one match suspension, I imagine that the club will be content to give Redmond a break given the fixture congestion. In our next two games, both opponents will have enjoyed more rest than Saints - WBA considerably more, and Everton one day more.

 

According to the account I read, there was no retroactive action against Vertonghen because the panel could not agree on whether he intended to scratch his opponent in the eye.

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Dodgy refereeing decisions are always going to go the away team's way at the Northam end. The initial reaction of the crowd behind the goal has a big influence on refs in 50/50 decisions. Nearly a minute of 3,00o Spurs fans baying for blood finally made up Dean's mind to award a red card. It would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of how many penalties and red and yellow cards go the away team's way at the Northam end. At least at the Chapel end, although there will be almost no crowd reaction at all, it doesn't favour the away team.

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Dodgy refereeing decisions are always going to go the away team's way at the Northam end. The initial reaction of the crowd behind the goal has a big influence on refs in 50/50 decisions. Nearly a minute of 3,00o Spurs fans baying for blood finally made up Dean's mind to award a red card. It would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of how many penalties and red and yellow cards go the away team's way at the Northam end. At least at the Chapel end, although there will be almost no crowd reaction at all, it doesn't favour the away team.
I dont think that the Spurs fans appealed for a penalty at the time. If you watch it they are just disappointed with the miss
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Because he will only miss one game, a game he was likely to be rested in by the club anyway.

 

Rubbish.

 

The club would appeal whether he was going to play or not. Any subsequent Redmond sending off would be subject to a 4 game ban ( or 2 if goal scoring opportunity) as a second offence of the season. The club didn't appeal because it wasn't a clear and obvious error.

 

 

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Nyom - as clear a second yellow as you will see.

 

Robson Kanu - clear straight red (raised arm and contact, not that that's necessary). Must have seen it as he booked him.

 

VvD - should'v been straight red.

 

I'll order you the pampers...however this is the referee who allowed the famous beachball goal at Sunderland so no surprise it was an appalling performance.

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