Puel In / Out 2017 Edition

I back Puel, even though the football is miserable, he's a patsy in all this.

 

The problem we are facing could possibly be the following, just putting this out there for discussion...

 

Club is for Sale, and the owner doesn't want to put anymore money into the club.

Club doesn't want to purchase PL proven players, as it's up for Sale, and has been told it is self sustaining, which is why we have transfer money unspent after most windows.

PL TV money!!! not seen that being spent, unlike other teams.

 

Reed is my concern, as he's not answerable to anyone, so if he's crap and not purchasing good enough players, it's not the manager's fault, as they say you can't polish a turd. So probably for Reed to go, at least 2-3 managers and a Chairman before the **** rises to the surface.

Fair stab at an analysis

Meanwhile, Bournemouth currently beating Arsenal 2-0...

Just shows what a great result we got down there and the job Puel did who tactically outsmarted them.

It's got to be Harry Redknapp.

In. But did take some serious thought as part of me, perhaps my passionate side, was telling me no. But I decided to think rationally; rather then let my heart take over.

The next set of fixtures are really where we can see whether Puel is up to the job, or if he has lost the team altogether. This is an important period, as we are playing some rather easy fixtures and will be the test if you ask me.

Premier league: Burnley away (Sat 14 Jan); Leicester home (Sun 22 Jan); Swansea away (Tue 31 Jan); West ham home (Sat 4 Feb) and Sunderland away (Sat 11 Feb).

If we do not show a dramatic change in style of play and general attacking display; then we have a serious issue and a change of manager will be needed (I will want to see a change by at least the third game).

I am hopeful Puel is up to the job, and hope we all eat some humble pie when we gain some confidence and start steam rolling the opposition. For me this is a confidence issue, as at the moment there is a massive cloud over Saint Mary's and we are just waiting for it to clear up.

Meanwhile, Bournemouth currently beating Arsenal 2-0...

 

Just shows what a great result we got down there and the job Puel did who tactically outsmarted them.

Yet lost at Arsenal how **** are we

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We shouldn't have taken no for an answer from Howe in the summer - anyone can see he is an excellent forward thinking coach who gets the best out of his players. (Plus his wife doesn't want to move so his options are limited).

Meanwhile, Bournemouth currently beating Arsenal 2-0...

 

Just shows what a great result we got down there and the job Puel did who tactically outsmarted them.

Bournemouth players breaking from midfield leading to two goals... Lots of quick, direct, forward passing - let's hope Claude is watching...

Yet lost at Arsenal how **** are we

 

 

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And then beat them a few weeks later

And then beat them a few weeks later

Their junior team yes....

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Their junior team yes....

 

 

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Jenkinson, Gabriel, Gibbs, Coquelin, Xhaka, Elneny, Chamberlain, Ramsey, Iwobi and Pérez all played in that game.

Granted, Ozil Sanchez and Giroud didn't play but that team we beat was not a poor side at all.

Bournemouth players breaking from midfield leading to two goals... Lots of quick, direct, forward passing - let's hope Claude is watching...

**** me , we had this nonsense posted by someone during the Spurs game , now Bournemouth. Are we going to have this every time a game is on sky or are people going to get new material that's not quite so boring

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Meanwhile, Bournemouth currently beating Arsenal 2-0...

 

Just shows what a great result we got down there and the job Puel did who tactically outsmarted them.

Are you happy with the quality of football we're playing at the moment? If not, do you genuinely believe it is simply a case of the players all unanimously deciding not to put any effort in? Even if that improbable situation were true (rather than the more likely issue with formation & tactics) why would they all suddenly decide to down tools so (un)spectacularly?

Jenkinson, Gabriel, Gibbs, Coquelin, Xhaka, Elneny, Chamberlain, Ramsey, Iwobi and Pérez all played in that game.

 

Granted, Ozil Sanchez and Giroud didn't play but that team we beat was not a poor side at all.

Unlike poor sides like Everton, Hull,Palace, Sunderland and Watford all sides our tactics failed to beat?

Just so you know I am in the get him better backup team.

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Are you happy with the quality of football we're playing at the moment? If not, do you genuinely believe it is simply a case of the players all unanimously deciding not to put any effort in? Even if that improbable situation were true (rather than the more likely issue with formation & tactics) why would they all suddenly decide to down tools so (un)spectacularly?

Probably the same reason we were shiete this time last season .

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We don't play like a team just a collection of individuals picked on the day. There just isn't any chemistry in the play just going through the motions. WBA 68% possession one shot on target, a header from a corner, lost 2-1 just sums it up. Hitting the back of the stand doesn't count.

**** me , we had this nonsense posted by someone during the Spurs game , now Bournemouth. Are we going to have this every time a game is on sky or are people going to get new material that's not quite so boring

 

 

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Maybe check the post I was responding to first before you get your knickers in a twist, petal.

We don't play like a team just a collection of individuals picked on the day. There just isn't any chemistry in the play just going through the motions. WBA 68% possession one shot on target, a header from a corner, lost 2-1 just sums it up. Hitting the back of the stand doesn't count.

Of the 3 losses, it was that WBA that f*cked us.

• Spurs were very good, the red card coupled with us chasing it, I can accept as they are a very good side.

• WBA was just a stereotypical bad Saints performance that was a microcosm of our season.

• Matched Everton but once conceded the 1st goal, the 2 results above, plus fatigue contribute to the capitulation.

Of the 3 losses, it was that WBA that f*cked us.

 

• Spurs were very good, the red card coupled with us chasing it, I can accept as they are a very good side.

 

• WBA was just a stereotypical bad Saints performance that was a microcosm of our season.

 

• Matched Everton but once conceded the 1st goal, the 2 results above, plus fatigue contribute to the capitulation.

I agree with that. The West Brom really was a poor one. I can understand losing to Spurs and Everton.

If we lose in the same manner to some of our next opponents then I will be concerned for sure.

I agree with that. The West Brom really was a poor one. I can understand losing to Spurs and Everton.

 

If we lose in the same manner to some of our next opponents then I will be concerned for sure.

Yeah it really was. I think WBA made 59 passes to our 250 at halftime.

We FINALLY scored and conceded almost immediately after. 1 shot on target and didn't work the keeper in the whole of the 2nd half. That's why that game was easily the worst of the bunch.

The salient point about that game was that for all the debate about Puel, it was the game that illustrated the worrying lack of goal threat. You get the sense the players feel it now too.

Last season especially the 2nd half we looked like a thoroughbred racehorse but this season we look

Like a knackered plodding donkey. Boring football. We need a change, either puel goes or get someone in to help him.

Torn, but fundamentally the style of football leaves me cold and I've stopped looking forward to going to matches. As an earlier poster said, when the enjoyment stops what's the point.

This is the crux of it for me regardless of where we are in the league, how many points we have, and how that all compares with previous seasons at the same stage. We are boring and he is the main reason for this indisputable fact. I suppose he should be given the chance to improve it especially if given the backing to bring in at least a striker in the window but ultimately I would be pleased and relieved if he went now.

In

 

He's lost our two biggest goal threats in Mane and Pelle and not had them replaced properly, and players like JWP, Clasie and Davis who provide absolutely no goal threat whatsoever are now having a more important role in the side. When RK came in he had a clean slate almost to build his team, he brought in Pelle, Long, Mane, Tadic, Toby, Fraser and Bertrand as well as Elia and Djuricic in January on loan. So far Puel has brought in Boufal, Pied (long term injury), Redmond and Hojbjerg, who apart from Pied are 23, 22 and 21 years old respectively. So he's brought in 3 unproven youngsters as opposed to RK's mix of experienced pro's and proven premier league players, and who knows how much of a say Puel has really had in the signings - I find it hard to believe a guy who came in from France went to Les Reed and said "please get me Nathan Redmond from Norwich".

 

Let the man build his team, we are not going to go down, and currently theres 10 other premier league teams who would love to be in our position. Yes, we are boring, but I put that largely down to boring players. Mane was the most exciting player we have had for years, he hasn't been replaced, of course we are going to lose a lot from that. It comes to something when our centre half is our best player, and our most likely matchwinner too. It could be argued that is reflective of the manager's style but for me it comes down to a very average squad with one or two fantastic players.

 

God how we could do with a Pelle type now, would even put up with listening to that prat who moaned about him every minute of the day if it meant we could get him back.

Reasonably interesting until you suggested Pelle is the answer !

We don't have him and he wasn't that good anyway!

If you want to choose a player we don't have why not Ronaldo! Futile isn't it....

Let's talk about what is achievable ...

I think we will beat Norwich. Our reserves will beat theirs

I'm sure if we don't, plenty excuses will be inbound

Puel out

Probably the same reason we were shiete this time last season .

 

 

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We've looked utterly toothless from the start of the season. This isn't a Christmas slump, it's the continuation of a performance level that has persisted since August with only a few flattering scorelines decieving the optimists. Reminds me of after the boro game when the view that it was a rubbish performance papered over by a world class strike was widely derided. Can the truth of that verdict really be denied now with half the season played and the team averaging a goal from open play only once every other game?

Or this temporary bad form is deceiving the deluded pessimists who want us to sack our manager every other 10 games like Hull or Swansea

It's simple really.

Puel cannot inspire our best to score goals.

Basically this. I'm not sure where the problem lies but have also heard that senior players - and with that in mind I can guess that one of the is the club captain.

 

He's had less money to spend that Ronald, but less squad upheaval. The sad truth is that he is either out of his depth, a "yes man" or not being backed by the board in the transfer market.

 

As for the board. We seem to have ditched all our hyperbowl regarding the "southampton way" and have changed tactics and playing style; we're now faced with seemingly needing to buy players to fit a new system (square pegs round holes) etc. This just shows how out of depth the board have been and how complete their failure was this summer. Lost the manger, lost key players coupled with poor replacement business being done, abandoned system and the southampton way in a blind panic etc.)

 

Whatever it is, we are in for a terrible couple of months. We can't score and never look like winning a game. For that reason I voted out. Its more of a general protest, but I can't see anything improving for the club unless something changes - be it at board level or just managerial. Something ain't right at the moment for sure.

Sadly, that's about it. But don't let's go the Swanage way. We simply need a manager who can inspire and rally players to play their best in their best positions for 95 minutes - before they lose all confidence in their abilities.

We simply need a striker who can regularly find the back of the net. This will inspire and rally the rest of the players to play their best in their best positions for 95 minutes - before they lose all confidence in their abilities.

Reasonably interesting until you suggested Pelle is the answer !

We don't have him and he wasn't that good anyway!

If you want to choose a player we don't have why not Ronaldo! Futile isn't it....

Let's talk about what is achievable ...

'a Pelle type' could be interpreted as 'someone like Pelle, but not Pelle'. I can't remember Ronaldo ever playing for us, so not entirely sure how that is relevant.

It's simple really.

Puel cannot inspire our best to score goals.

So why was Austin scoring for fun until he got injured?

If he was playing and still fit, I have no doubt we'd have won or drawn some of the games in which we dropped points.

That's why I blame the board for not signing another striker in the summer, and why we should be pushing urgently to bring one in.

We simply need a striker who can regularly find the back of the net. This will inspire and rally the rest of the players to play their best in their best positions for 95 minutes - before they lose all confidence in their abilities.

This - Redmond had two straightforward headers (against EFC) which a clinical striker would have converted or at least tested the keeper with. Also needed is a genuine box-to-box attacking midfielder.

Mancini? Gary Rowett? Breitenreiter? Even Frank De Boer for god sake.

Bielsa is available and Emery could well be too by the time the board decide to replace Clueless Puel.

He has had the opportunity to improve his forward options in two transfer windows now and has said both times that he is happy with the options already at the club, he's a big boy, so if that isn't the case then the buck still stops with him for not having the balls to state that we need more forward options!

Add that to the insipid displays, which he has said are down to the team playing the way he wants them too, the over rotation and the fact that players that we know are good players from previous seasons are becoming bad players under his direction and his fall outs with several of the squad and he has got to go!

This - Redmond had two straightforward headers (against EFC) which a clinical striker would have converted or at least tested the keeper with. Also needed is a genuine box-to-box attacking midfielder.

I'd argue we need two, our midfield lacks so much athleticism. And a goalkeeper. And a right back. And Fonte will need replacing.

Anyway even if we decide Puel is not the man for us, we will probably keep him until the end of the season while searching for a new coach to take over in the summer, a bit like we did with Adkins where the decision to sack him was taken long before we actually pulled the trigger. That way we can ensure the next guy is the best we can possibly get. And what Rowett and De Boer have done to earn this job I have no idea, why are they being suggested?

In because Puel is a project and I truly believe that. If fans want stability after mass sellings and multiple managers, this guy is your bloke to do it. Yes, football can be dire, but it can under any manager; it's not like he's not making changes to the attack to try and help. Anyone seen the diamond recently? I think lots have forgotten about the fact Puel has changed the formation both before and during games to try and win. ''Stubborn old puel'' simply isn't true in that regard. The mentality is a worry, players do seem to let their heads drop but as someone pointed out (don't remember where I saw it) we very rarely come back from a losing position to win games. It's an ongoing problem that the club (and puel) are very clearly aware of.

To finish, as the players have been saying fans play a massive part on the pitch giving players the extra boost, so support your team it's not all bad.

A really good piece here - http://readsouthampton.com/2017/01/03/what-on-earth-has-happened-at-southampton/

A really good piece here - http://readsouthampton.com/2017/01/03/what-on-earth-has-happened-at-southampton/

Decent read, until I read, 'I've defended his playing style'!!

A really good piece here - http://readsouthampton.com/2017/01/03/what-on-earth-has-happened-at-southampton/

It's a well written piece, but slightly undermined IMO with one or two bias-confirmation / history-revising lines, such as:

"The point has often been made that we were worse off last season. We hadn’t even reached the Europa League group stage, we were around about 12th in the league and we were on a similar points tally. The difference was that there was always a belief that Koeman could turn it around and he could adjust to pull us out of the rut."

Yes, there were those of us then, as now, that were giving the manager the benefit of the doubt, but there were plenty who held the opposite view (again, as now). He obviously wasn't reading this forum 12 months ago...!

I doubt the club are even entertaining the idea of sacking Puel. I think his targets were stated to be a top half finish (still attainable), a cup semi-final (which he has managed) and getting out of the group stage of the Europa ( which he hasn't achieved but only by a fine margin). On top of that he has re-established the clubs much valued path way from the academy to the 1st team.

I'd imagine the club are satisfied with things given this Puel's 1st season in the PL. The club aren't generally known for short term knee jerking. If we sacked every manager who was **** over mid winter Koeman would have been fired (twice) and poch wouldn't have made through one full season.

It's a well written piece, but slightly undermined IMO with one or two bias-confirmation / history-revising lines, such as:

 

"The point has often been made that we were worse off last season. We hadn’t even reached the Europa League group stage, we were around about 12th in the league and we were on a similar points tally. The difference was that there was always a belief that Koeman could turn it around and he could adjust to pull us out of the rut."

 

Yes, there were those of us then, as now, that were giving the manager the benefit of the doubt, but there were plenty who held the opposite view (again, as now). He obviously wasn't reading this forum 12 months ago...!

If anyone could be bothered to dig them out I bet the Koeman threads from this time last season would make interesting reading.....

If anyone could be bothered to dig them out I bet the Koeman threads from this time last season would make interesting reading.....

Maybe but I don't remember Koeman to be sacked polls with more wanting him out than in

Bournemouth players breaking from midfield leading to two goals... Lots of quick, direct, forward passing - let's hope Claude is watching...

Haha, let's hope Puel learned a lot about football from Bournemouth's performance.

Did you forget that we stuffed them down there with excellent passing football?

If anyone could be bothered to dig them out I bet the Koeman threads from this time last season would make interesting reading.....

I have looked and trust me a few would have bumped them by now with "golden post" if there was much to see. There really wasn't - i think this time last year the majority (including me) were disappointed in a handful of performances but also optimistic it was all about to click.

Sure enough it did and the rest is history.

This isnt the same as last year (for me at least)

Out.

The over rotation is ridiculous. We played superbly away at Bournemouth, had 10 days rest then made changes galore. Pointless. Since then yet more changes for the sake of it.

We look unfit. Many late goals conceded.

The formation is negative and doesn't suit the players. Granted he was dealt the players but he has the ability to change the formation.

The style of play is dull. I can't remember when I was last so bored watching a saints team.

More worryingly, and maybe others can confirm, but apparently the players are unhappy and complain that the manager is distant and that he overworks them.

We need a change.

Looking at social media and the comments there are hugely negative towards Puel on almost every . One can question the representativity but at least they are not just a few noisy ones. I cant remember seeing that from Koemans dip last season.

Clearly fans are more upset now, there has been to many disappointments and too few positives with Puel.

Looking at social media and the comments there are hugely negative towards Puel on almost every . One can question the representativity but at least they are not just a few noisy ones. I cant remember seeing that from Koemans dip last season.

 

Clearly fans are more upset now, there has been to many disappointments and too few positives with Puel.

I would agree that there appears to be less confidence in the manager now than there was a year ago.

So why was Austin scoring for fun until he got injured?

 

If he was playing and still fit, I have no doubt we'd have won or drawn some of the games in which we dropped points.

 

That's why I blame the board for not signing another striker in the summer, and why we should be pushing urgently to bring one in.

scoring for fun?

It's a well written piece, but slightly undermined IMO with one or two bias-confirmation / history-revising lines, such as:

 

"The point has often been made that we were worse off last season. We hadn’t even reached the Europa League group stage, we were around about 12th in the league and we were on a similar points tally. The difference was that there was always a belief that Koeman could turn it around and he could adjust to pull us out of the rut."

 

Yes, there were those of us then, as now, that were giving the manager the benefit of the doubt, but there were plenty who held the opposite view (again, as now). He obviously wasn't reading this forum 12 months ago...!

I disagree. Anyone that reaches the conclusion that Shane Long is a "creative forward" needs to lay off the juice for a lifetime. It has a much value as the rest of the opinions here and that is all.

I have looked and trust me a few would have bumped them by now with "golden post" if there was much to see. There really wasn't - i think this time last year the majority (including me) were disappointed in a handful of performances but also optimistic it was all about to click.

 

Sure enough it did and the rest is history.

 

This isnt the same as last year (for me at least)

0.9/10.

You're at your best when you take some underlying truth or hit some elementary nerve and push things to their most absurd conclusions. Here you're just making things up. This place was in meltdown over RK and our results -and the mood behind the scenes was just as bad if you believe the ITKers so much so that a change in management was being contemplated.

I've been a big patron of your work -as a craft form its an endangered species- but your recent output is getting harder to defend. Perhaps festive season fatigue is setting in. Some puelesque rest and rotation in order. Come back fresh pal?

Couldn't see evidence of many votes of confidence in Koeman's ability to turn things around in this thread exactly one year ago :

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55753-Norwich-V-Saints-Post-match-despair

"The real season is over. Limbo until the next season unless we get into a relegation battle."

"Could well be looking at a relegation scrap"

"Never really looked like scoring - we don't have a top scorer and we do have too many substandard players."

"#WeLimpOn...Hopefully we'll get a few more points on the board or could be looking at a late-season relegation scrap."

"Something has to change or we will be right in a relegation fight very soon - Koeman's tactics and player choices defy belief"

"So, is this the much-vaunted "Southampton Way?""

"Final wake up call before slipping into the coma chaps. Utter sh*te."

"to all those people on here that think that we're too good to go down, WAKE UP!!"

"awful, truely awful. we are in a fight to stay up. Make no mistake. With the form we are in, the manager saying we 'may' buy a striker in the window (so nothing imminent then)and his tactics. we will do well to stay up. That is realism"

"I wonder if RK is set on this job. Few times now made points to Journo's about our ambition and yet again today. he did very little change pretty ovbvious shyte tactics."

"I wonder about RK. was last season a one-off where the pieces fell in place for him?"

"we will do well to stay up"

"Won't be that disappointed when koeman's contract has run out, he plays boring football & odd tactics/substitutions too, he is an average manager who looks like he's just going through the motions & seeing out his time at saints. we need a change to rejuvenate us"

"The next month will tell us the club's real intent, prepare to be disappointed."

"The sooner Koeman goes the better. Abysmal tactically all season and today was probably the worst he's been"

"Koeman continues to pick teams without goalscorers in them (Davis, JWP as 'attacking' players), he doesn't do anything to change the game (because he's too negative) and he consistently picks Wanyama.And it won't be any different next week. Davis will play. JWP will play. As soon as Pelle is fit he'll be back in and Long will be dropped. Wanyama will play."

"Koeman has been shown up this season - he seems clueless and does not change things when the game is crying out for a change. Sleepwalking to a relegation battle."

"We are in deep, deep sh*t...."

"Koeman's inability to turn a game around is worrying...there are too many things going wrong at the same time. Oh well, it's been a while since we had a good relegation scrap."

"Don't know why, but I something us not right behind the scenes IMHO. Too many signs of unrest. Getting very worried!"

"I feel much of the criticism on here aimed at Koeman has been fair."

"Blame for this result lies firmly with Koeman. Zero ambition to try and win the game...Not sure i want to see Koeman given money to spend in January."

"Window opens Wanyama loses interest Mane loses commitment Koeman loses the plot!"

"RK appears to be blind to the inadequacies of certain players yet continues to play them"

"well we're in free fall now"

"Yes, we are in a relegation scrap. Something I warned about months ago and which I was constantly derided over. Now it seems my views are mainstream." ( )

"I don't know what the answer is and I am starting to wonder if Koeman, players and training staff do either."

"Koeman has the temerity to get things right and goes and changes things around. Too clever at times, just too damn clever....."

"We are not qualifying for Europe and we shouldn't get relegated but it is going to be a lot closer than we would like or expected."

"my concern is that Koeman is having too much say in who we buy. Right now I would not trust him with any money: his tactics are awful, he never changes things up in time and is adverse to giving the young (JWP aside) players a chance to shine."

"he has too much influence on transfers and has been shown this season to be a very average manager tactically. There is little about him as a manager that fits the type we want and need. Doesn't give youngsters a chance, demands too much say in transfers and doesn't play attacking football"

"Koeman seems to be having a confidence crisis as much as any of the players. When he first arrived, the football we played was so much more enjoyable that what we saw under Pochettino (far, far, far too much passing for the sake of it without creating anything); we were attacking, direct, and always looked a threat. For some reason, he seems to have gone into his shell a bit and become far more defensively minded."

"I find the football under RK in general equally as dull, and wouldn't mind in the slightest if he was sacked tomorrow"

"It isn't working except 4-4-2 against Arsenal which he couldn't wait to revert to losing."

"Koeman does not coach closing down and winning the ball back.. Pochettino is such a superior coach....Without the ball however we are and have been ever since Koeman took over nothing short of dreadful..."

"No doubt about it Koeman has seriously messed up with tactics on numerous occasions this season. No one understands why he hasn't continued with same system that worked so well against Arsenal. Just mind boggling really."

And before I get jumped upon for partaking in the age old SaintsWeb Forum trick of selective quoting, all I'm highlighting here is that there were very few threads and posts around this time last year expressing confidence in Koeman's ability to turn things around, which is the only comparison I'm making. What I'm not doing is comparing the amount of "Puel Out" sentiments with any "Koeman Out" sentiments this time last year. There were indeed very few people calling for Koeman's head. I'm simply observing there were equally few people who felt that he/we would have anything close to the stonking second half of the season that we ended up having.

For what its worth, I have less faith in Puel turning things around this time than I had in Koeman last season, but what I'm not about to do is rule out that it could happen again.

I disagree. Anyone that reaches the conclusion that Shane Long is a "creative forward" needs to lay off the juice for a lifetime. It has a much value as the rest of the opinions here and that is all.

When I said it was "well written", I was more talking about the articulation and style rather than the content per se. There's plenty in there I don't subscribe to but I'm an admirer of well worded opinions even if I disagree with them. It's the ill thought out rants that tend to rankle