Les Reed

The manager has no goodwill as he's been here only during bad times.

 

Reed was around when cortese was delivering good times and building a very good squad and had appointed a top manager.

 

Some are oddly insistent on giving Reed credit for that period and ive even seen posts where some credit Les for signing Lambert and Fonte (both signed long before Les was hired by Cortese)

 

For me Les has been a disaster. Hes lost two top managers and hired two horrendous ones. Hes sold our best players and has overseen a terrible downturn in our once thriving youth academy.

 

Transfers have been poor, communication pathetic and his hiring throughout the club has been a disaster.

 

I feel less connected to the club than ever before and feel the club have totally lost its identity, like ability and ambition under Reed.

 

Time to go. We need a winner in charge, not a loser.

 

I'd happily have Nic back.

In fairness to Reed, he probably isn’t being backed like a winner. Doesn’t excuse the last 2 managers and 3 I’d last 4 windows but just saying

You could always just guess, or speculate. Lots of people on here do.

 

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Next you'll be telling me this isn't the only forum on the internet without any trolls....

Would be very careful what you wish for. I don’t think Les has had a great couple of years, but the manner in which KL cut the club loose to the Chinese ‘mystery owners’ (we hear nothing from them regarding plans to improve the club) should surely suggest we need some form of stability at Board level. We need a better squad and better team management/coaching right now more than anything - now is not the time to make this change.

I think that a *certain song could have been written with Les Reed in mind ( Of course it wasn't as it was written in 1919 but read the words and see what you think )

*My Old Man is a music hall song written in 1919 by Fred W. Leigh and Charles Collins, made popular by Marie Lloyd.

voted in as we need to sack the manager first

While still a majority want him gone, interesting to see its more even than the poll on MP which is almost universal in wanting him out.

In my opinion Puel was a perfectly sensible appointment, did a good job with very different circumstances. And if you take the big picture Les has presided over four consecutive years of top 8 finish, two seasons of European football and a cup final. For a club of our size that is a good record. He has been instrumental in a number of very good signings over the years.

I think he is in the dock on two grounds, the failure to replace Pelle and Mane adequately and the decision to sack Puel. Puel should have been backed in the summer, the malcontents shipped out (like VVD) and a tall target man signed. So in my opinion he has had a poor six months. Let’s see if he recovers in January window....

I voted to keep him in but he’s in last chance saloon. If January ends and we still have the clown in charge and have only made a couple of cheapo signings then I will probably change my mind. All clubs make the occasional wrong appointment so he deserves the chance to put things right IMO.

Would be very careful what you wish for. I don’t think Les has had a great couple of years, but the manner in which KL cut the club loose to the Chinese ‘mystery owners’ (we hear nothing from them regarding plans to improve the club) should surely suggest we need some form of stability at Board level. We need a better squad and better team management/coaching right now more than anything - now is not the time to make this change.

Agreed.

Still have faith in Led to sort it out.

After the Cortese debacle Les and Krugeur took the club from strength to strength to strength peaking in that sixth place finish but then built on with the cup final last season. We've hit heights other clubs our size could only dream of.

He's made a dreadful appointment in Pellegrino and the sooner he is sacked the better but changing the front door doesn't mean ripping up the foundations.

Reed has got far, far more right than wrong overseeing the most sustained successful period in our history, so he has the latitude from me to get on and sort it out.

He’s an owners dream with the profit he makes on players. The VVD deal has shocked European football.

To save repeating what I said a few weeks ago, here’s why I’ve voted Out...

Les Reed deserves massive credit for his contribution to Saints over the last 7 years, but maybe it’s now time for someone else to take over with some fresh ideas and a new strategy.

 

I don’t believe the players aren’t good enough, although Mane was a huge loss obviously. Our players are better than performances suggest and our recruitment (Redmond excepted) is pretty good (Lemina, Hoedt etc). I think buying black-box bargains rather than proven ‘names’ is the only sustainable strategy for a club our size and we’ve had more hits than misses (and Les deserves great credit for establishing our recruitment infrastructure).

 

However, I think we have to accept (unfortunately) that most modern Premier League players are pampered millionaire prima donnas used to getting what they want and many of them have been very unhappy since the summer of 2016 and this has impacted on the pitch.

 

I think the reason they’re unhappy is because Les radically changed our strategy for player contracts in early 2016. I think we have to conclude that this strategy has failed. We have gone backwards ever since.

 

His strategy was to get the players and manager to commit to long-term contracts. At the time, I thought this was a very sensible idea to stop the constant loss of our players.

 

It seems pretty clear that Koeman wanted to see out the third year of his contract, then leave us for a bigger club, and Fonte wanted to move to Manchester United after winning the Euros.

 

Letting these things happen was against Les’s new strategy so he insisted Koeman extend his contract or leave immediately (and earn us a transfer fee/compensation) and Fonte was denied his one last chance to move to a top club. This destabilised many of the players.

 

In a normal business, the strategy was very sound. We didn’t want to risk players and managers running down their contracts and leaving for low transfer fees or for nothing.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a normal business, the players are pampered millionaire prima donnas! Koeman and Fonte clearly refused to act ‘professionally’ and caused trouble when they couldn’t get what they wanted.

 

Despite this, many of the other players then signed-up for long contract extensions in exchange for big pay rises without appearing to have realised that committing to longer contracts meant they were delaying their chances of getting the dream move to a big club that they feel entitled to.

 

In a functioning market, the players agents would have explained to their clients that the ‘price they were agreeing to pay’ for their big pay rises was to delay their next career move.

 

Unfortunately, the agents get bonuses every time a new contract gets signed, so they have an incentive not to explain these pitfalls to the players.

 

Keeping van Dijk this summer has clearly woken up the players on extended contracts to what they signed up for and many of them seem (unjustifiably) furious about it. I think this damaged morale is what has primarily gone wrong for us this season (that and persisting with Nathan Redmond and Fraser Forster!).

 

It’s extremely unprofessional of players to behave this way and the idea of reducing player power by getting them to commit to long contracts was a nice idea, but it has caused our team to go backwards fast since Koeman left and Les Reed has caused this. He tried to defeat player power, but is losing the battle.

 

Finally, I think it’s interesting that (apparently) the ‘non-millionaire’ staff disliked Cortese, but the millionaire players and Pochettino thought he was fantastic. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cortese’s background was as a Swiss banker specialising in High Net Worth Individuals (like Marcus). I’m guessing he was very good at massaging the egos of pampered millionaire prima donnas.

 

My conclusion is that our team won’t improve until the (poor unloved) players are happy. Either this means changing half the players or changing the strategy. What these players want (and feel entitled to) is for Saints to embrace being a stepping-stone club and shop window for Champions League Clubs. This strategy was working pretty well until 2016 (on reflection) and the key is the club getting a good return on investment in the form of high transfer fees and using those funds to develop and recruit suitable replacements.

 

I don’t see Les agreeing to change strategy, so I think it’s now time for a new Director of Football. I’m sure the Black Box has identified dozens of potential replacements because Les has told us the Southampton Way is bigger than any one individual!

 

Now that’s off my chest!

I also think we need a new manager to motivate the players and convince them that the strategy has changed (and because they don’t respect Pellegrino ... and he doesn’t know how to pick our best team ...or win matches).

I will vote at the end of January. If he's sacked the manager, appointed a good manager in his place, and signed 3 or 4 good players to give us a fighting chance in the league, he can stay; otherwise... out.

Really? Since when? I've always believed this is a forum based on fact and insightful observation rather than wild agenda laden speculation and guesswork...

 

Next you'll be telling me this isn't the only forum on the internet without any trolls....

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So Les Reed goes...who replaces him? Who advises the new owners on who to appoint in his place? Do the owners know a whole lot about football? We do need to consider the possibilities of what happens after Reed's departure.

I look at the new owners of Birmingham City who got shot of Gary Rowett (sitting just outside of the play-off position at the time) and replaced him with Zola. A disaster. They now reside at the bottom of the Championship. A clueless bunch of owners with zero clue about football, which could be remarkably similar to ours.

Yes, maybe Reed should go (I don't know) but I would love to know what footballing brains will be advising our new owners on a new improved director of football. Any ideas???

Really? Since when? I've always believed this is a forum based on fact and insightful observation rather than wild agenda laden speculation and guesswork...

 

Next you'll be telling me this isn't the only forum on the internet without any trolls....

Heisenberg did own up to being a troll but even then, I don’t think he meant it. We don’t have any trolls, full stop.

So Les Reed goes...who replaces him? Who advises the new owners on who to appoint in his place? Do the owners know a whole lot about football? We do need to consider the possibilities of what happens after Reed's departure.

I look at the new owners of Birmingham City who got shot of Gary Rowett (sitting just outside of the play-off position at the time) and replaced him with Zola. A disaster. They now reside at the bottom of the Championship. A clueless bunch of owners with zero clue about football, which could be remarkably similar to ours.

Yes, maybe Reed should go (I don't know) but I would love to know what footballing brains will be advising our new owners on a new improved director of football. Any ideas???

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I’m not ready to give Les the thumbs down yet. If the transfer window closes with squad needs still unmet, and Pellegrino still in charge with no sign of improving, then I expect I’ll be in the out camp.

Go..... but won't happen unless on his terms. 2 years of crap football ultimately down to his decision over last two managers.

He's also gone a little quiet recently, can't keep him out the spotlight when it's all Going well.

He's not qualified to be in a position which he has at st Mary's.

So Les Reed goes...who replaces him?

You dont need a history in football to be a success in football. Cortese proved that.

In fact the benefits of being outside the game were probably what made Cortese so successful.

He didn't follow the "rulebook" and he certainly didn't and wouldn't bend over 6x for Liverpool.

I'm obviously not his biggest fan....

But I will sum it up thus-ley.

Fans are worried about Mopey being allowed to spend the VVD cash and saying he should not be given that chance to waste.... Are these fans frankly morons? Mopey will not spend any of that money! This board, and chiefly Les Reed, will spend that money.

Now we have zero say in this as fans. Fair enough. We have been bone idle and lapped up the PR rubbish spewed by the club far too readily as a fanbase...

However! If we don't have anything other than a fantastic window, it needs to be the last one for those in charge.

I cannot understand why we have allowed this transfer to be announced prior to us signing any other players? And we will look like total mugs if they get shed loads for Couts... Not only that, but it was abundantly clear in the summer that he did not want to be here, was unsettling the team, and was going to be sold anyway... so why the hell have we let him unsettle the team, played him when he has zero interest, and wasted half a season paying his wages.

The whole VVD saga so far has been a train wreck.

This january needs to be last chance saloon for this board and LR.

You dont need a history in football to be a success in football. Cortese proved that.

 

In fact the benefits of being outside the game were probably what made Cortese so successful.

 

He didn't follow the "rulebook" and he certainly didn't and wouldn't bend over 6x for Liverpool.

Who did the great and powerful Cortese appoint to oversee football matters because of his huge trust in his ability?

So Les Reed goes...who replaces him? Who advises the new owners on who to appoint in his place? Do the owners know a whole lot about football? We do need to consider the possibilities of what happens after Reed's departure.

I look at the new owners of Birmingham City who got shot of Gary Rowett (sitting just outside of the play-off position at the time) and replaced him with Zola. A disaster. They now reside at the bottom of the Championship. A clueless bunch of owners with zero clue about football, which could be remarkably similar to ours.

Yes, maybe Reed should go (I don't know) but I would love to know what footballing brains will be advising our new owners on a new improved director of football. Any ideas???

I think we have reached the point where bad advice given to the owners is a lot worse than no advice. So sorry Les time to go.

Good luck your time is up....

For Gods sake why on earth are you sitting on your hands man...

The ship is sinking and no one is on the bridge !!!!

Get out of the way and let someone start pumping the water out before the club drowns....

We seem to have got to the point where the unconventional approach and business model to running a football club is greater than common sense. I believe we have done a lot of good things over the last few years but have also got a lot of things wrong and as a result missed our opportunities when they have arisen.

To move from a smaller club to bigger club as was desired takes risk and when we had the opportunity to do so and make a statement to players and good management, we decided not to and from that point our business model changed to becoming a development club with potential upgrading on the back of it, this probably happened without realising the consequences that no activity would deliver this change. This change fails when either players are not as good as were thought to be when bought, or management fails to deliver, which is what has happened with a combination of both.

Now we are in a pickle because to get out of this we need to have a drastic short term fix of “conventional”, buying mature proven players to fix a short term problem. This is where I’m not sure and don’t know if Reed is big enough to change to do this and in doing so admit mistakes ....or simply continue to go down the same pattern we are in and then Lady Luck will play her part...

Its a very good question to be honest. We have an awful lot of people advocating that he be removed from his post, but very few actually know what he really does, or who would be a suitably better replacement.

 

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So Les Reed goes...who replaces him? Who advises the new owners on who to appoint in his place? Do the owners know a whole lot about football? We do need to consider the possibilities of what happens after Reed's departure.

I look at the new owners of Birmingham City who got shot of Gary Rowett (sitting just outside of the play-off position at the time) and replaced him with Zola. A disaster. They now reside at the bottom of the Championship. A clueless bunch of owners with zero clue about football, which could be remarkably similar to ours.

Yes, maybe Reed should go (I don't know) but I would love to know what footballing brains will be advising our new owners on a new improved director of football. Any ideas???

I think we have reached the point where bad advice given to the owners is a lot worse than no advice. So sorry Les time to go.

Good luck your time is up....

For Gods sake why on earth are you sitting on your hands man...

The ship is sinking and no one is on the bridge !!!!

Get out of the way and let someone start pumping the water out before the club drowns....

Any danger of answering his specific question rather than skirting around it...?

I cannot understand why we have allowed this transfer to be announced prior to us signing any other players

Agree with this. What was stopping us saying to Liverpool: "ok, he's yours for £75m, but on the condition that nothing is disclosed / announced until we've got our signings done and dusted"? Surely, given how desperate they were to sign him, we were in the driving seat?

So we sack Les. Who appoints his replacement?

Gao - leveraging his extensive footballing contacts and expertise?

Krueger - I'm sure there's a decent hockey coach or motivational speaker he could line up.

Ross Wilson - Scotland's answer to Pepe Guardiola.

What we actually need to do, is have a chat with Les about the future and work on a proper succession plan because if he suddenly drops out of the picture I think things could get a lot worse before they get better.

So we sack Les. Who appoints his replacement?

 

Gao - leveraging his extensive footballing contacts and expertise?

 

Krueger - I'm sure there's a decent hockey coach or motivational speaker he could line up.

 

Ross Wilson - Scotland's answer to Pepe Guardiola.

 

What we actually need to do, is have a chat with Les about the future and work on a proper succession plan because if he suddenly drops out of the picture I think things could get a lot worse before they get better.

If we believe what we've been told in the past (ok, ok.... stop the tittering at the back), don't we already have succession plans in place for every post at every level within the club, which would include Reed's position?

Agree with this. What was stopping us saying to Liverpool: "ok, he's yours for £75m, but on the condition that nothing is disclosed / announced until we've got our signings done and dusted"? Surely, given how desperate they were to sign him, we were in the driving seat?

I believe that was the plan until the telegraph got hold of the story and an announcement had to be rushed out.

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I believe that was the plan until the telegraph got hold of the story and an announcement had to be rushed out.

I wonder how the Telegraph got hold of the story...? It just seems odd that the one newspaper that we seemingly feed stories to (via Jeremy Wilson) is the very same paper that breaks the story 'early'.... something doesn't add up....

At the moment the club appears to be run like a shambles.... Take it back a few seasons and Reed oversaw excellent player and decent manager recruitment, is it him or those above with a lack of funds/support? He'd go up in people expectations (mine anyway) if he binned off MP and came out saying he made the decision to appoint and it hasn't worked out.

Becoming Rupert Lowe all over again

How much longer are we going to accept being $hit on and made a mockery of

Any danger of answering his specific question rather than skirting around it...?

If you read my answer instead of making snide remarks the answer is there!

Have an opinion of your own for once!

In all seriousness, what does les actually think he's doing right now?

92% of the fan base want shot of the manager, granted fans aren't always the best judges but I'd suggest that level of rejection is pretty damming. He's our worst manager since portvliet/wotte, possibly even since branfoot. All our players are getting worse, not better, they look shot to pieces for form and morale and are so bad at marking set pieces we leave the leagues top scorer to be "marked" (if you can call it that) by a midget midfielder.

Reed is clearly not a complete moron, so what is the thought process? Can we not find a suitable replacement? When did we start looking (because it should have been a month ago). Have we found our ideal replacement but he's not free until the season Ends? Does he think the malaise is all down to vvd and now he's gone it'll improve? Is he relying on bringing Walcott back as some kind of saviour?

Reed has undoubtedly been a part of our return from league 1 so is probably deserving of some slack, but it seems to me that he's taking a huge gamble, risking our premier league status. He has to get his decisions over the next couple of weeks spot on otherwise we're getting relegated. And given our squad that would be one of the worst cases of underperformance in premier league history. Seriously, we should be nowhere near in danger.

I wonder how the Telegraph got hold of the story...? It just seems odd that the one newspaper that we seemingly feed stories to (via Jeremy Wilson) is the very same paper that breaks the story 'early'.... something doesn't add up....

I suspect the club fed it to him. Since VVD is eligible to play from Jan 1, the story was going to break sooner or later. I highly doubt we will have done any business by then, so the timing of the announcement is unlikely to have made any difference.

Out for sure. He has had an horrific past few years in regards to decision making and what's happening now does not look like that is changing.

 

For me my main gripe was the needless change of direction in terms of our style. We used to play pressing, attacking free flowing football. That brought us to where we were. If we played any team you felt we would give it a go. That is no longer the case.

He brought in ultra defence minded staff and players. When you are setting up at home with 6-7 defensive players against Huddersfield that shows how far we have changed. People will say Reed doesn't pick the team. But he picks the managers who will pick the team. He picks the players we will buy and he is the one who decides who will be sold and who get's new contracts.

With Puel you can give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that was not how things were supposed to go.

But as said in that Palmer article he knew MP was a defence minded coach. There is no way he was appointed for his 'attacking play style' as said by Reed when he joined because MP had never played with an attacking play style.

 

He was a cheap option, and someone who would be a yes man.

 

Some people have mentioned the vvd and the insane amount of money we have received. Do I trust him to spend that money on quality? Not at all.

We are 2 points above the drop zone which shows our squad isn't very good. Some players will have a good game here or there but for the most of the season they have been gash.

So many of the squad should have been moved on in the summer. Last season we struggled for goals. We all knew we needed some quality attacking players brought in last January let alone the summer. But we didn't. We brought in more defensive style players. We persist with Redmond, jwp and co in the hope they will eventually come good.

Add to that we just sold our best player in January whilst we are in a relegation fight. VVd might not be at the same level he was, might not be putting in the effort. But a half assed vvd is still better than what we have. We have lost 18 of our 38 games in the whole of 2017. Winning only 10! Swansea have won more than us. Huddersfield have 6 wins already! Point being the players which have come in recently have decreased the quality of our team. Therefore the recruitment has been poor. As Les is in control of the recruitment and who we bring in he must accept responsibility for it.

 

Which brings me back to MP. The guy is doing badly. We have 11 points from the last 45 on offer. Or 2 from the last 15. Which puts us joint bottom of the form table. In the last 10 games we have let in 20 goals. Only Newcastle have let in more goals over that period (21). We have only stopped 4 teams from scoring against us. That's the 3rd to last in clean sheets. Which not only shows the defensive set up is stupid it also shows it isn't working! If you are letting in around 2 goals a game and only scoring 1 it doesn't take a genius to see you are more likely to lose games than win them.

 

The guy should not have been here in the 1st place, it was not a 'good fit' as Reed claimed. The fact he is still here is a baffling decision by Reed. If we keep hold of MP and repeat our recent recruitment quality we will be in big trouble. If you have a leader in charge who keeps making bad decisions and isn't strong enough to change things when they are not working then what is the point of him? He is in control of the football aspect of the club and the quality of it has seriously declined. In any other business he would be out on his ass.

Come back Cortese.

All is forgiven

I believe that was the plan until the telegraph got hold of the story and an announcement had to be rushed out.

 

 

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Do you seriously think that Liverpool would agree to not play their new prize asset (which many believe is the piece of the puzzle they have been missing) for a few weeks, because we haven't sorted our transfers this end?

How do you suggest the Telegraph (known to be favored jurno) got hold of the story? If i'm being honest, the reported leaks stink of PR to keep fans on side and deflect away from genuine targets (notice how the Telegraph has very little mention of Walcott, which seems the most genuine leak / target so far).

VvD can play for Liverpool from Monday, there is no way, we would have done our business by then. What we could have done is refuse to sell until we have brought players in, but that would mean keeping an unhappy player in the stands and around the dressing room for a few extra weeks.

If you read my answer instead of making snide remarks the answer is there!

Have an opinion of your own for once!

I wonder how the Telegraph got hold of the story...? It just seems odd that the one newspaper that we seemingly feed stories to (via Jeremy Wilson) is the very same paper that breaks the story 'early'.... something doesn't add up....

I saw both Wilson stories as part of a planned campaign by the club to quell fan unrest caused by selling our best player to Liverpool, again, a few months after drawing a line in the sand on that very issue.

Wilson was fed. Obvious. Placatory names and he gets a story. Everybody happy (minus those who can see through the b.s.)

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Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post

I cannot understand why we have allowed this transfer to be announced prior to us signing any other players

Simples, because we ain't gonna sign any new players. Another asset stripped without a fan revolt.

Do you seriously think that Liverpool would agree to not play their new prize asset (which many believe is the piece of the puzzle they have been missing) for a few weeks, because we haven't sorted our transfers this end?

 

How do you suggest the Telegraph (known to be favored jurno) got hold of the story? If i'm being honest, the reported leaks stink of PR to keep fans on side and deflect away from genuine targets (notice how the Telegraph has very little mention of Walcott, which seems the most genuine leak / target so far).

 

VvD can play for Liverpool from Monday, there is no way, we would have done our business by then. What we could have done is refuse to sell until we have brought players in, but that would mean keeping an unhappy player in the stands and around the dressing room for a few extra weeks.

Vvd can’t play from 1st jan as can’t be registered until 2nd jan so fa cup will be first game

How about this,

Reed sacks Pellegrino, announces that one of Van Gaal/Tuchel/Bosz/Rodgers/Rowett is our new manager a day later and gives him 60 million to invest in the squad.

Would you still want Reed to resign?

How about this,

 

Reed sacks Pellegrino, announces that one of Van Gaal/Tuchel/Bosz/Rodgers/Rowett is our new manager a day later and gives him 60 million to invest in the squad.

 

Would you still want Reed to resign?

Id propose we revote at the end of the season !

How about this,

 

Reed sacks Pellegrino, announces that one of Van Gaal/Tuchel/Bosz/Rodgers/Rowett is our new manager a day later and gives him 60 million to invest in the squad.

 

Would you still want Reed to resign?

The problem is I doubt very much any of these managers would want to come here

That is the problem who wants to come here who is anygood that's why we get managers like Puel and Pellegrino

We were lucky with Koeman he wanted PL experience so he could move to a bigger club

 

We were lucky with Koeman he wanted PL experience so he could move to a bigger club[/QUOTE]

 

From which he got sacked after a season and a few weeks.

I thought it would be more one sided anti Reed , Just goes to show those who shout loudest aren't always the big majority !

I thought it would be more one sided anti Reed , Just goes to show those who shout loudest aren't always the big majority !

I think most would be happy for Reed to carry on if he sorted the manager's position out.

I thought it would be more one sided anti Reed , Just goes to show those who shout loudest aren't always the big majority !

While there are obviously plenty of muppets on here, I think most rational people recognise and appreciate that les has been a fairly significant part of our recent, successful history. Plus there's a fear of who else we might get. Saying that, I think a lot of people are wavering on the edge. The lack of action after the Spurs shambles is remarkable. Either he's a dead man walking, in which case get shot, or les doesn't think he should sack him ... Yet. And that is staggering, everyone can so the players are shot.

Les has got a big couple of weeks IMHO. No further forward and I'd imagine the poll would be a lot more one sided.

While there are obviously plenty of muppets on here, I think most rational people recognise and appreciate that les has been a fairly significant part of our recent, successful history. Plus there's a fear of who else we might get. Saying that, I think a lot of people are wavering on the edge. The lack of action after the Spurs shambles is remarkable. Either he's a dead man walking, in which case get shot, or les doesn't think he should sack him ... Yet. And that is staggering, everyone can so the players are shot.

 

Les has got a big couple of weeks IMHO. No further forward and I'd imagine the poll would be a lot more one sided.

Let's hope he acts decisively and wisely. In the past, especially the summer transfer windows, we have time and time again dithered around and ended up doing little to address issues that were obvious to most. We have been much too cautious and complacent.