Les Reed

8,7, 6, 8

 

Reasonably ??

You beat me to it. I was about to make the exact same point.

What ever Les Reed does will be slated on this forum. The fact is that in his time we have gone from near bottom and bankruptcy top near top and affluence and I've seen the most cheering years since I started at the Dell post war. Why don't they stop moaning and give him a medal? Must be some very disturbed people on this site, hope their marriages are ok

Absolutely. He stood firm when all the expects were predicting that VVD was certain to go and even a considerable number of our own fans were bizarrely urging him to.

Well played Les.

I hope this puts to bed the ridiculous, completely unwarranted criticism he's received from certain quarters in the past couple of years but somehow I doubt it.

The long contracts have paid their first dividend. I trust and hope this is the beginning of the new era of keeping our best players. It will be so much easier to build the squad one at a time gently over a period rather than needing three replacements urgently every summer. Les, you are playing a blinder, thanks a million.

The long contracts have paid their first dividend. I trust and hope this is the beginning of the new era of keeping our best players. It will be so much easier to build the squad one at a time gently over a period rather than needing three replacements urgently every summer. Les, you are playing a blinder, thanks a million.

This, perhaps Les and the club will get some respect for their actions as long last from the club basher`s on here

The long contracts have paid their first dividend. I trust and hope this is the beginning of the new era of keeping our best players. It will be so much easier to build the squad one at a time gently over a period rather than needing three replacements urgently every summer. Les, you are playing a blinder, thanks a million.

Like it or not, next summer (if not earlier) is going to be very turbulent: I fully expect VVD, Cedric, Bertrand and Tadic to be off.

It would be a shame to let this thread end on a negative tone.

Under Les Reed, the club has been signing its players on 4 or 5 year contracts or extending existing contracts. It's been well documented that Van Dijk is contracted until 2022 so if in due course he doesn't agree a further extension, the club can still expect a fee for him if he is held until 2021 or he could be allowed to leave for free in 2022 if he still wanted to after being here for 7 years. Other key players such as Soares, Tadic, Austin and Long are under contract until 2020, whilst Bertrand, Boufal, Redmond, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are signed until 2021. The Club's current practice indicates that if such players are wanted for longer, they will be offered further extensions when contracts are within one or two years of ending. Generally, it looks like players who don’t extend, will stay until they have just a year or two years to go while they will still command a fee.

The sales of players such as Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Mané contributed to the media calling Southampton a selling club although the facts of each don’t support that:-

Wanyama was signed in 2013 on a 4 year contract. With one year left in 2016 he refused a contract extension and was sold to Spurs for a fee. If he had been kept for another year he could have left for free.

Morgan Schneiderlin signed a 4-year contract extension in 2013. Spurs attempted to sign him in 2014 but Saints refused to let him go. He was offered a 5 year extension in 2015 but wouldn't sign so was sold to Man U. With two years left on his contract the fee was significantly higher than if he had been retained until his final year.

Mané was signed in 2014 on a 4-year contract. He was offered a contract extension in 2016 but refused to sign. As a result he was sold to Liverpool for the £34m when, like Schneiderlin the year before, he had just two years left on his Saints' contract.

One sale that does seem to buck the trend was selling Lallana to Liverpool for £25m in 2014. The player was on a contract until 2018 and could have been held to it. Perhaps the fee was regarded as exceptional but the outcome was that it led to unrest amongst other players including those who left in the next year or two. Perhaps that was the period in which the club saw there was a lesson to be learned.

We know that longer contracts are being used and contract extensions offered earlier for players the club wants to tie down for longer. In 2018, Austin, Soares and Tadic will have two years left on their contracts so further extensions might arise but Bertrand will still have three years to go and Van Dijk, four years, so there's no reason to expect any changes for them for some time. For those signed until 2021 and Gabbi who’s deal runs until 2022, there’s no reason to expect any moves if the player’s form holds up.

As we've seen with the Van Dijk saga, the club can't stop a player who decides to kick up but it doesn't mean the club will concede and it has shown other clubs as well as our own players, that the image presented by the media wasn't correct. Under Reed, the club has said it will only sell a player when it is in the club's interests to do so. It seems that is saying it like it is.

Thanks Prof.

I appreciate your attention to detail and giving a reasoned review of our player sales over the past few years. You haven't mentioned Lovren or Clyne, do you have the details on their contract position when they were sold?

It would be a shame to let this thread end on a negative tone.

Under Les Reed, the club has been signing its players on 4 or 5 year contracts or extending existing contracts. It's been well documented that Van Dijk is contracted until 2022 so if in due course he doesn't agree a further extension, the club can still expect a fee for him if he is held until 2021 or he could be allowed to leave for free in 2022 if he still wanted to after being here for 7 years. Other key players such as Soares, Tadic, Austin and Long are under contract until 2020, whilst Bertrand, Boufal, Redmond, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are signed until 2021. The Club's current practice indicates that if such players are wanted for longer, they will be offered further extensions when contracts are within one or two years of ending. Generally, it looks like players who don’t extend, will stay until they have just a year or two years to go while they will still command a fee.

The sales of players such as Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Mané contributed to the media calling Southampton a selling club although the facts of each don’t support that:-

Wanyama was signed in 2013 on a 4 year contract. With one year left in 2016 he refused a contract extension and was sold to Spurs for a fee. If he had been kept for another year he could have left for free.

Morgan Schneiderlin signed a 4-year contract extension in 2013. Spurs attempted to sign him in 2014 but Saints refused to let him go. He was offered a 5 year extension in 2015 but wouldn't sign so was sold to Man U. With two years left on his contract the fee was significantly higher than if he had been retained until his final year.

Mané was signed in 2014 on a 4-year contract. He was offered a contract extension in 2016 but refused to sign. As a result he was sold to Liverpool for the £34m when, like Schneiderlin the year before, he had just two years left on his Saints' contract.

One sale that does seem to buck the trend was selling Lallana to Liverpool for £25m in 2014. The player was on a contract until 2018 and could have been held to it. Perhaps the fee was regarded as exceptional but the outcome was that it led to unrest amongst other players including those who left in the next year or two. Perhaps that was the period in which the club saw there was a lesson to be learned.

 

We know that longer contracts are being used and contract extensions offered earlier for players the club wants to tie down for longer. In 2018, Austin, Soares and Tadic will have two years left on their contracts so further extensions might arise but Bertrand will still have three years to go and Van Dijk, four years, so there's no reason to expect any changes for them for some time. For those signed until 2021 and Gabbi who’s deal runs until 2022, there’s no reason to expect any moves if the player’s form holds up.

As we've seen with the Van Dijk saga, the club can't stop a player who decides to kick up but it doesn't mean the club will concede and it has shown other clubs as well as our own players, that the image presented by the media wasn't correct. Under Reed, the club has said it will only sell a player when it is in the club's interests to do so. It seems that is saying it like it is.

Very good post ....cheers for that

Good post professor, sound views all backed up by actual facts....makes a change on this place! One slight oddity you haven't mentioned was Fraser, signed up until 2021 last summer.....and then signed another contract this summer, so that was a bit strange - would be interesting to know the reasons behind that.

If you want a lesson in how not to manage players contract lengths then take a look at Arsenal. They have got double figures of players out of contract within the next year, including their key men Ozil and Sanchez. In any sensible business, they should have reluctantly agreed to sell Sanchez this summer when it became apparent he wasn't going to sign - similar to Ozil.

They've probably ****ed away over £100m in transfer fees.

Like it or not, next summer (if not earlier) is going to be very turbulent: I fully expect VVD, Cedric, Bertrand and Tadic to be off.

Agree with that, but doubt that Reed will be here to oversee it once the Chinese have their feet under the table - despite the current PR lacuna.

It would be a shame to let this thread end on a negative tone.

Under Les Reed, the club has been signing its players on 4 or 5 year contracts or extending existing contracts. It's been well documented that Van Dijk is contracted until 2022 so if in due course he doesn't agree a further extension, the club can still expect a fee for him if he is held until 2021 or he could be allowed to leave for free in 2022 if he still wanted to after being here for 7 years. Other key players such as Soares, Tadic, Austin and Long are under contract until 2020, whilst Bertrand, Boufal, Redmond, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are signed until 2021. The Club's current practice indicates that if such players are wanted for longer, they will be offered further extensions when contracts are within one or two years of ending. Generally, it looks like players who don’t extend, will stay until they have just a year or two years to go while they will still command a fee.

The sales of players such as Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Mané contributed to the media calling Southampton a selling club although the facts of each don’t support that:-

Wanyama was signed in 2013 on a 4 year contract. With one year left in 2016 he refused a contract extension and was sold to Spurs for a fee. If he had been kept for another year he could have left for free.

Morgan Schneiderlin signed a 4-year contract extension in 2013. Spurs attempted to sign him in 2014 but Saints refused to let him go. He was offered a 5 year extension in 2015 but wouldn't sign so was sold to Man U. With two years left on his contract the fee was significantly higher than if he had been retained until his final year.

Mané was signed in 2014 on a 4-year contract. He was offered a contract extension in 2016 but refused to sign. As a result he was sold to Liverpool for the £34m when, like Schneiderlin the year before, he had just two years left on his Saints' contract.

One sale that does seem to buck the trend was selling Lallana to Liverpool for £25m in 2014. The player was on a contract until 2018 and could have been held to it. Perhaps the fee was regarded as exceptional but the outcome was that it led to unrest amongst other players including those who left in the next year or two. Perhaps that was the period in which the club saw there was a lesson to be learned.

 

We know that longer contracts are being used and contract extensions offered earlier for players the club wants to tie down for longer. In 2018, Austin, Soares and Tadic will have two years left on their contracts so further extensions might arise but Bertrand will still have three years to go and Van Dijk, four years, so there's no reason to expect any changes for them for some time. For those signed until 2021 and Gabbi who’s deal runs until 2022, there’s no reason to expect any moves if the player’s form holds up.

As we've seen with the Van Dijk saga, the club can't stop a player who decides to kick up but it doesn't mean the club will concede and it has shown other clubs as well as our own players, that the image presented by the media wasn't correct. Under Reed, the club has said it will only sell a player when it is in the club's interests to do so. It seems that is saying it like it is.

Yeah, I know all that, but Les Reed out anyway eh...?

Agree with that, but doubt that Reed will be here to oversee it once the Chinese have their feet under the table - despite the current PR lacuna.

There's nothing like a good old PR lacuna in my book.

I've not read much of this thread but I find the title at least pretty pathetic. Sure Les hasn't got everything right and has said the odd daft thing but no-one is perfect. On the whole he, along with the Liebherrs and to a certain degree Ralph, have been a very positive and stabilising influence on the club. The future may be uncertain but I'm sure fans of many clubs would snap your hand off for what we've had the past few years, it's sad that some of our own supporters can't see that. For any who want rid of him I would say be careful what you wish for.

It would be a shame to let this thread end on a negative tone.

Under Les Reed, the club has been signing its players on 4 or 5 year contracts or extending existing contracts. It's been well documented that Van Dijk is contracted until 2022 so if in due course he doesn't agree a further extension, the club can still expect a fee for him if he is held until 2021 or he could be allowed to leave for free in 2022 if he still wanted to after being here for 7 years. Other key players such as Soares, Tadic, Austin and Long are under contract until 2020, whilst Bertrand, Boufal, Redmond, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are signed until 2021. The Club's current practice indicates that if such players are wanted for longer, they will be offered further extensions when contracts are within one or two years of ending. Generally, it looks like players who don’t extend, will stay until they have just a year or two years to go while they will still command a fee.

The sales of players such as Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Mané contributed to the media calling Southampton a selling club although the facts of each don’t support that:-

Wanyama was signed in 2013 on a 4 year contract. With one year left in 2016 he refused a contract extension and was sold to Spurs for a fee. If he had been kept for another year he could have left for free.

Morgan Schneiderlin signed a 4-year contract extension in 2013. Spurs attempted to sign him in 2014 but Saints refused to let him go. He was offered a 5 year extension in 2015 but wouldn't sign so was sold to Man U. With two years left on his contract the fee was significantly higher than if he had been retained until his final year.

Mané was signed in 2014 on a 4-year contract. He was offered a contract extension in 2016 but refused to sign. As a result he was sold to Liverpool for the £34m when, like Schneiderlin the year before, he had just two years left on his Saints' contract.

One sale that does seem to buck the trend was selling Lallana to Liverpool for £25m in 2014. The player was on a contract until 2018 and could have been held to it. Perhaps the fee was regarded as exceptional but the outcome was that it led to unrest amongst other players including those who left in the next year or two. Perhaps that was the period in which the club saw there was a lesson to be learned.

 

We know that longer contracts are being used and contract extensions offered earlier for players the club wants to tie down for longer. In 2018, Austin, Soares and Tadic will have two years left on their contracts so further extensions might arise but Bertrand will still have three years to go and Van Dijk, four years, so there's no reason to expect any changes for them for some time. For those signed until 2021 and Gabbi who’s deal runs until 2022, there’s no reason to expect any moves if the player’s form holds up.

As we've seen with the Van Dijk saga, the club can't stop a player who decides to kick up but it doesn't mean the club will concede and it has shown other clubs as well as our own players, that the image presented by the media wasn't correct. Under Reed, the club has said it will only sell a player when it is in the club's interests to do so. It seems that is saying it like it is.

Good post Prof.

Les has done more good than bad for our club. Don't forget the financial pressures we have been under in recent years with the Staplewood overspend, and wasting money on the likes of Ramirez and Osvaldo.

Good post Prof.

 

Les has done more good than bad for our club. Don't forget the financial pressures we have been under in recent years with the Staplewood overspend, and wasting money on the likes of Ramirez and Osvaldo.

I think this is fair. He has been a mildly better than average director of football.

Strange though, this is yet another post which highlights the delusions of saints web.... Les Reed has been pivotal in the past 6years at sms and behind all our key signings and appointments... Except any failures like Ramirez or Osvaldo ofc.

It really is laughable logic. Les Reed took control when Cortese left. And since then the clubs momentum has stalled and now started to decline. How much of that is down to Les Reed is as always debatable, and he could of course have done worse. But lets not pretend we've had a world class leader in Les Reed. We've lost manger teams, coaches, scouts all to bigger clubs. But Les Reed has never been poached or even approached.

I think this is fair. He has been a mildly better than average director of football.

 

Strange though, this is yet another post which highlights the delusions of saints web.... Les Reed has been pivotal in the past 6years at sms and behind all our key signings and appointments... Except any failures like Ramirez or Osvaldo ofc.

 

It really is laughable logic. Les Reed took control when Cortese left. And since then the clubs momentum has stalled and now started to decline. How much of that is down to Les Reed is as always debatable, and he could of course have done worse. But lets not pretend we've had a world class leader in Les Reed. We've lost manger teams, coaches, scouts all to bigger clubs. But Les Reed has never been poached or even approached.

Those are the four word that you need to consider carefully when you try to evaluate Les Reed performance within the club. Few clubs of our stature would have been able to see off the interest from the suitors of the players and staff that we have allowed to leave. You also need to understand that Cortese (good though he was) would appear to have been out of control with other peoples money and needed reigning in.

Any club will have 'failures' as you put it amongst their playing staff - it's not exclusive to SFC - really it's not. There is no laughable logic - Les Reed has done a good job at SFC.

But Les Reed has never been poached or even approached.

You know that for sure?

You know that for sure?

Isn't he one of the highest paid DOF's in the country? (I don't begrudge him his salary at all, just explaining why he may not want to leave. Full control, good salary, basically runs the club, it's a very cushy position for him).

Thanks Prof.

 

I appreciate your attention to detail and giving a reasoned review of our player sales over the past few years. You haven't mentioned Lovren or Clyne, do you have the details on their contract position when they were sold?

Lovren had 3 years remaining and Clyne 1 year when they left.

Isn't he one of the highest paid DOF's in the country? (I don't begrudge him his salary at all, just explaining why he may not want to leave. Full control, good salary, basically runs the club, it's a very cushy position for him).

I wouldn't call what any DoF has to cope with 'cushy' especially at St Mary's this summer. Uncle Les earns every penny and a bonus I should think

I think this is fair. He has been a mildly better than average director of football.

 

Strange though, this is yet another post which highlights the delusions of saints web.... Les Reed has been pivotal in the past 6years at sms and behind all our key signings and appointments... Except any failures like Ramirez or Osvaldo ofc.

 

It really is laughable logic. Les Reed took control when Cortese left. And since then the clubs momentum has stalled and now started to decline. How much of that is down to Les Reed is as always debatable, and he could of course have done worse. But lets not pretend we've had a world class leader in Les Reed. We've lost manger teams, coaches, scouts all to bigger clubs. But Les Reed has never been poached or even approached.

Did Les sign Ramirez and Osvaldo? I don't think so.

My post is far from delusional, he has done more good than bad. I am not hailing him as some sort of messiah.

Reed took charge when we were flying - consecutive promotions and a top team and manager in place.

The only way was up. Fast forward a few years and we are nicely nestled into the mid table gang. For me thats been disappointing.

Plus Reeds signings and appointments + ability (lack of) to hold onto top managers, staff and players.

Hes also won nothing (ever....in the game nearly 50 years as player, manager, coach and director) and the once fabled academy looks as dry as ever.

On the plus side he's made us sustainable and built the club value for Kat. We are in good shape to push forward again.

I wouldn't be surprised if hes moved on this summer, im unsure how popular he is with fans or players and personally id like to see Nic C return or someone of his ilk.

Reed has too much respect for the top 7 and has put a ceiling on our success. His recent management appointments poor (Puel) and recent signing very mixed. He also leaves glaring squad gaps year after year.

Time for a change IMHO.

Did Les sign Ramirez and Osvaldo? I don't think so.

 

My post is far from delusional, he has done more good than bad. I am not hailing him as some sort of messiah.

Very subjective of course but Les has also signed the likes of Forren, Juanmi, Gardos, Lee and Mayuka. Plenty of misses to go with the hits. But you are right, he's not the messiah. Nor is he useless.

 

It really is laughable logic. Les Reed took control when Cortese left. And since then the clubs momentum has stalled and now started to decline.

What?????

7th then 6th in the 2 years following Cortese, how on earth could we maintain that ? 5th, then 4th , 3rd? Get some realism man.

You do realise that this stalled momentum position of 8th is equal to the highest we ever achieved under Cortese? So by your "laughable logic" Les' worst season is equal to Cortese's best

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What?????

 

7th then 6th in the 2 years following Cortese, how on earth could we maintain that ? 5th, then 4th , 3rd? Get some realism man.

 

You do realise that this stalled momentum position of 8th is equal to the highest we ever achieved under Cortese? So by your "laughable logic" Les' worst season is equal to Cortese's best

Have to agree that a bit of realism needs to be found. Why do people think that we should be where we are? What about Stoke, West Ham, West Brom, Leicester, Palace, Newcastle etc etc for example? Why do people think that we should be above them year in year out? OK, Newcastle, Palace etc seem to self destruct quite happily.

Bloody Les Reed. Everything is his fault. I'm sure he's even involved with North Korea.

etc.

Lovren had 3 years remaining and Clyne 1 year when they left.

True - but Lovrens head was also on merseyside while the rest of him was on the south coast! A bit like watching him play now - all over the place.

I agree with those who say not everything has gone right under Les Reed but it seemed reasonable to counter the unjustified phrase used for the thread title. One of the problems for a club like Southampton that is trying to punch above its weight, is that it can't compete financially for established World-class players or big-name managers so has to look at lower cost recruiting. We see the club getting people who may be on the way up but natural consequence is that if they succeed here, their ambition makes them want to move upwards, as they see it. People may say we are being used as a stepping stone which may sometimes be true in which case it presents the club with a challenge to try to deal with. Of the 5 managers who have been and gone since administration, 2 have increased their reputation on the basis of Southampton's achievements and were poached for higher pay by clubs with more money. Two, who looked as if they wouldn't move us on, were let go and one (Pardew) left, it was suggested, for non-football reasons. The current manager was again an appointment out of left field of someone without Premier League experience but with a very strong CV.

When it comes to players we can't afford the tens of millions that allows the wealthy clubs to pick off the best players already performing in the Premier League or in the top overseas leagues and it could be said we have tended to go for B-List players, but ones with potential. Sometimes the promise isn't fulfilled and as fans we can all point to some of the failures, but some perform extremely well, in which case the challenge is to hang on to them. That, it seems to me, is where the current policy is aimed and it does mean that the core of the squad is protected against poaching. If the policy has allowed us to keep our best player, widely described as the best CB in the Prem and still tied to us for five more years, it can hardly be called a failure.

What on earth is the obsession with Les Read? He has delivered, with the Liebherrs, the best Saints years starting from absolutely nothing. And look where he has led us, if that is not amazing success, what is the expectation? And it has all been done on a lightweight budget compared with the bankrolled top six. It has been a long progression, the Reed Out people don't seem to appreciate the steady rise to success. What's the matter with them? What and who do they want?

Isn't he one of the highest paid DOF's in the country? (I don't begrudge him his salary at all, just explaining why he may not want to leave. Full control, good salary, basically runs the club, it's a very cushy position for him).

Not even close !

The highest paid executive at Saints in 2016 was on £480k, meanwhile Man City had 2 Dof's earning a total of over £4mil and even WBA had one on £1.7mil !

Saints were near the bottom of the pay league for guys in this position !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4848990/England-Southampton-international-football.html

Didn't think it worthy of a new thread, but an "interesting" comparison between England and Saints!!! Are we really as dull as England?

Like it or not, next summer (if not earlier) is going to be very turbulent: I fully expect VVD, Cedric, Bertrand and Tadic to be off.

Why?

Why turbulant?

What?????

 

7th then 6th in the 2 years following Cortese, how on earth could we maintain that ? 5th, then 4th , 3rd? Get some realism man.

 

You do realise that this stalled momentum position of 8th is equal to the highest we ever achieved under Cortese? So by your "laughable logic" Les' worst season is equal to Cortese's best

 

 

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Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

Big respect to the board for holding van dijk. Makes a refreshing chance from feeling frustrated losing our best players every year.

Very happy tonight

This.

In the end it comes down to the players. We've now got a decent squad. Perhaps it could be better in some departments

, but let's face it, we ain't rich. Les has absorbed criticism and done what was needed.

So over to you fellers.

Seriously, never take being in the Premier League for granted. This and staying in the league is itself an achievement. For evidence look at the Championship and you can see many 'big' clubs languishing or having been promoted, finding themselves relegated just as quickly.

I was as proud as anything about our 27 year run, unfortunately ended in 2005. Better than any Cup win ! (ie a certain blue team with a naval dockyard on its doorstep).

What a wasted opportunity.

Katarina was probably only interested in selling the club to get back her money which seems to have been successful completed

Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

 

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

 

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

 

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

 

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

 

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

A huge, steaming pile of sh_ite.

A huge, steaming pile of sh_ite.

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Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely?

Not hard at all. All you need to do is look at the facts.

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Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

 

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

 

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

 

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

 

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

 

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

But you are probably my favourite.

There's some really, really special little guys on this forum.

 

But you are probably my favourite.

lol cheers fry, some usual snidey put downs from one of the multi account masters. Ta.

Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

 

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

 

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

 

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

 

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

 

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

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Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

 

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

 

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

 

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

 

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

 

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

Yep.

Yep.

Nil satis nisi optimum, right pal?

After getting back from my vacation, I intended to catch up with all the posts and probably reply to a bunch of them. But instead I will watch this a few more times and relax. Catch you all later.

Nil satis nisi optimum, right pal?

I have that tattooed on both arms

Totally disagree Duck. We came 8th and were far far closer to the relegation zone than europe. We managed 46 points ffs - Any other season and we'd have been ****ting the bed from Christmas onwards.

 

Saints have gone backwards in recent years and it's hard to argue differently surely? And in comparison, Liverpool will mount a title challenge with 50% of our team plus Coutinho (who we failed to sign despite having his favourite manager at the club - see also Toby and his staggeringly unaffordable 60k per week wages at tottenham).

 

I called Les Reed a slightly better than average DoF, and to be blunt, if we'd had a better DoF we'd have achieved (or got closer to) our potential in recent years.

 

Sadly those opportunities has been missed, and have been and gone. Our potential has changed accordingly and we are now aiming to achieve a top 10 finish only. Its a shame to refer to that oft used expression of old, but it is very much a "dell sized mentality" to think that settling for top 10 ambitions is good enough given where the club was at 2-4years ago. We had a great chance to achieve something, we didn't... and now liverpool will achieve it instead, but with our players.

 

I'm sorry if that grates with some people and seems crazy, but likewise I do not understand people who set such low ambitions themselves. It just breeds mediocrity. And anyone who thinks saints have pushed on and achieved the potential that was on offer after Poch, or after Koeman is kidding themselves in my eyes. We have had two of the Country's best managers, a fantastic crop of players, and huge tv monies - and used all that to achieve 46 points last year. That is categorically **** poor management and why on earth do people want to argue differently?

 

Anyway, its just a point of view and there is no point arguing about it. The only people who can change things are those at the top level of the club. And on their recent track record, I see nothing that dispels my belief that the last few seasons (pre Puel) were the best saints fan's will get for a generation. What a wasted opportunity.

I would like a couple of examples from your life where you have set yourself high targets and then achieved it.

Lol at the people suggesting we should've pushed on from 6th and regularly competed with the big clubs. Explain to me how we can magically go from our £85m wage budget to the £195m+ of the big 5.

2016/17 wage budgets:

Man Utd £232m

Chelsea £224m

Liverpool £208m

Man City £198m

Arsenal £195m

Spurs £100m

Southampton £85m

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

The fact is we over-performed based on our spend the last few years thanks to some quality players that moved on to top clubs. Last season we only had 2 players worthy of big clubs (Bertrand/VVD) with 1 injured half the season (Some will argue Cedric & Romeu too, imo they're good but not top club level). Unless we make some incredibly shrewd signings we'll be battling with the 13 other clubs on similar wage budgets.

Spurs right now are over-performing the same way we did with a squad of real quality players. Watch them get picked apart over the next 2 years like we did when they all demand higher wages (already seeing discontent with Rose).

People that think we can consistently compete with the big clubs are either deluded or trolls. 2017 football is all about money and we don't have it.

Am I right in thinking that you are only allowed to increase your wage bill by £7m a year (not that that will allow us to ever catch up)?

This is definitely the part of FFP that will hold us back from ever competing at the top. There is one solution and only one which will never come into force. That's a wage cap. Even if one did come about , there would be so many ways to get around it.