Southampton's board want to avoid selling key players after EFL Cup Final heartbreak

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/02/27/southamptons-board-want-avoid-selling-key-players-efl-cup-final/

Uh oh.

“We don’t want to do what we did in the last three summers every year."

Important quote from Krueger. Let's remember it.

“We don’t want to do what we did in the last three summers every year."

 

Important quote from Krueger. Let's remember it.

We say similar every year. We don't intend to sell.... Until the offers come in and players say they want to leave.

“We don’t want to do what we did in the last three summers every year."

 

Important quote from Krueger. Let's remember it.

What's changed from previous summers to this coming one? Apart from our lack of saleable assets?

“We don’t want to do what we did in the last three summers every year."

 

Important quote from Krueger. Let's remember it.

I won't disbelieve it until its in an official Les video.

What's changed from previous summers to this coming one? Apart from our lack of saleable assets?

Van Dijk - 5 years left

Bertrand - 4 years left

Romeu - 4 years left

Boufal - 4 years left

Gabbiadini - 4 years left

As opposed to:

2015

Schneiderlin - 2 years left

Clyne - 1 year left

2016

Mané - 2 years left

Wanyama - 1 year left

Pellè - 1 year left

2017

Fonte - 1.5 years left

The cost of keeping a player over one season is his annual salary plus the decline of his market value. This last part makes keeping a player in the penultimate year of his contract expensive and is his last year extremely expensive. Unlike previous years, this time our best players aren't in a position to force their way out by making it too expensive for us to keep them.

They don't want to. Doesn't mean they won't. I don't want to do my washing up or laundry but I will...

There's not much you can do if players insist on leaving

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Only time will tell and how big the cheques on offer are.

They don't want to. Doesn't mean they won't. I don't want to do my washing up or laundry but I will...

Exactly

What's changed from previous summers to this coming one?

As Cartman has highlighted, most of the 'key' players who have left over the last 3 years have been approaching the end of their contracts and therefore had the upper hand in any negotiations, whereas now, most of our 'key' players are at the opposite end of their contracts.

Ok, so we all know that "contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on" but it does put the club in a better negotiating position in each case.

So there is a difference this summer compared to previous summers but whether it has any tangible effect remains to be seen.

The only difference is that we have less top players to sell

VvD will be gone and gone early. It is what we do. Sadly

The only difference is that we have less top players to sell

 

VvD will be gone and gone early. It is what we do. Sadly

Assume you've got plenty of "glad I was proven wrong" and "there, told you so" cards in stock?

We can but hope I guess. The very essence of professional sport as entertainment is that there is a chance your team can one day do something great, so perhaps there is a recognition that we have another great opportunity, an who knows, maybe the players believe it too.

As ever with Reed and Krueger, actions speak louder than words.

As Cartman has highlighted, most of the 'key' players who have left over the last 3 years have been approaching the end of their contracts and therefore had the upper hand in any negotiations, whereas now, most of our 'key' players are at the opposite end of their contracts.

 

Ok, so we all know that "contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on" but it does put the club in a better negotiating position in each case.

 

So there is a difference this summer compared to previous summers but whether it has any tangible effect remains to be seen.

Sure, but that's not my point. Why is the intention from the board different, which is what this article is suggesting?

Nothing has changed they say similar things every year.

As ever with Reed and Krueger, actions speak louder than words.

But if players want to leave, then they will: this is a plea to try to get them to stay.

Its like any job: people want to quit, they quit, or you park them on gardening leave for years.

If a player wants to leave and only has a year left on his deal we have to sell, 2 years we probably have to. 4 or 5 years left, there is no way we have to sell him. Plenty of other clubs have stuck to their guns, it's not a foregone conclusion, or inevitable.

"We would like to..., we don't want to..., we would like to...", they're not exactly the strongest comments of all time!

There's not much you can do if players insist on leaving

What b*ll*cks. We can refuse them permission to approach the player. We did it with Morgan.

I cant tell if this is a "we have finally learned our lesson" message, considering how long we have taken to settle down from the double player-and-manager disruption of this season, or this is the formal "Seasonal Player Sale" signs going up in the shop window...

There is a hierarchy in football and if Real Madrid or Barcelona want a player they will typically get them.

In the EPL we are level 3 just now and can lose players to Level 1 sides (Man United, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal borderline)

What we want to avoid is losing players to Level 2 sides (Liverpool, Spurs, Everton borderline)

Spurs (level 2) have players Man United (level 1) will want for example - how do Spurs stop players just insisting on joining United? They dont pay the 200-300k wages that level 1's do and can.

We must also stop selling to teams on our level (WHU) OR better still stop selling to EPL clubs all together. If a player is determined to leave - Go, but find a club in Italy, Spain or Germany that will pay the asking price.

We are too soft, the equivalent or a Sports Direct EVERYTHING must go sale.

Reed and Kruger have lost all trust for me. They simply dont back there words with actions.

Van Dijk - 5 years left

Bertrand - 4 years left

Romeu - 4 years left

Boufal - 4 years left

Gabbiadini - 4 years left

 

As opposed to:

 

2015

Schneiderlin - 2 years left

Clyne - 1 year left

 

2016

Mané - 2 years left

Wanyama - 1 year left

Pellè - 1 year left

 

2017

 

Fonte - 1.5 years left

 

The cost of keeping a player over one season is his annual salary plus the decline of his market value. This last part makes keeping a player in the penultimate year of his contract expensive and is his last year extremely expensive. Unlike previous years, this time our best players aren't in a position to force their way out by making it too expensive for us to keep them.

I do agree generally with this but go back one yr and i think Lallana, Lovren and Shaw are more like the situation we find ourselves in this year (was chambers that yr too?). Not sure what i mean by it but maybe its not always as simple as length of contract as sure they had a few years left between them?

Fingers crossed though - we've seen so much talent go and if we keep hold of VVD and (cant believe im saying this after 3 games haha) Gabbiadini then theres a chance of building around them. 50m will see VVD off though and i wont hugely blame him!

Well Manolo says he's getting a house soon, so that's a good sign that he will still be here next year.

In fact this is a great article with lots of interesting quotes from him. He seems a bit of a philosopher (perhaps Cantona-esque)...here's an example.

"Football really is like the open sea. There are moments of calm, but suddenly you can be hit by a storm, you can’t ever relax." (At least he didn't say "soon I will be like the seagulls following the trawler as it leaves Southampton docks!)

Anyway good read, and he says positive things about Claude Puel.

http://www.football-italia.net/98989/gabbiadini-%E2%80%98saints-can-be-turning-point%E2%80%99

Sure, but that's not my point. Why is the intention from the board different, which is what this article is suggesting?

Maybe their "intention" is different because they know they stand more chance of succeeding due to the different overall situation with contracts. Who knows? Probably no-one on here for starters

The only difference is that we have less top players to sell

 

VvD will be gone and gone early. It is what we do. Sadly

VVD had to give his commitment to the club before they gave him the captaincy. He is 100% staying.

I do agree generally with this but go back one yr and i think Lallana, Lovren and Shaw are more like the situation we find ourselves in this year (was chambers that yr too?). Not sure what i mean by it but maybe its not always as simple as length of contract as sure they had a few years left between them?

 

Fingers crossed though - we've seen so much talent go and if we keep hold of VVD and (cant believe im saying this after 3 games haha) Gabbiadini then theres a chance of building around them. 50m will see VVD off though and i wont hugely blame him!

Good point but you could argue we had good returns on those you mention and were able to replace fairly adequately. Should VVD go (though I hope/believe we might get one more out of him) I can only imagine it would be for a serious amount of money!

VVD had to give his commitment to the club before they gave him the captaincy. He is 100% staying.

I wonder if Lallana had to do the same..

Well Manolo says he's getting a house soon, so that's a good sign that he will still be here next year.

 

In fact this is a great article with lots of interesting quotes from him. He seems a bit of a philosopher (perhaps Cantona-esque)...here's an example.

 

"Football really is like the open sea. There are moments of calm, but suddenly you can be hit by a storm, you can’t ever relax." (At least he didn't say "soon I will be like the seagulls following the trawler as it leaves Southampton docks!)

 

Anyway good read, and he says positive things about Claude Puel.

 

http://www.football-italia.net/98989/gabbiadini-%E2%80%98saints-can-be-turning-point%E2%80%99

I think as its Southampton, it should be a Ocean Liner leaving Southampton docks.......

I wonder if Lallana had to do the same..

I think most people expect VVD to leave at some point but I don't think it'll be before 2018

I think most people expect VVD to leave at some point but I don't think it'll be before 2018

I agree with you FWIW, I just hope we sign a replacement first this time.

The only difference is that we have less top players to sell

 

VvD will be gone and gone early. It is what we do. Sadly

Just like Puel will be gone by Christmas. D'oh!

What b*ll*cks. We can refuse them permission to approach the player. We did it with Morgan.

It's a roll of the dice, trying to hang on to a player who is actively trying to leave.

The more level headed, professional ones like Schneiderlin might knuckle down and get on with job, or you could end up with the likes of Lallana and Lovren leaking to the press all over the place trying to force their move. Or Fonte and Wanyama being so distracted that their performances drop off badly.

And at the extreme end of the scale you've got Berahino at West Brom, who basically went into hibernation for two and a half years, killing his own career and pretty much denying the club both the use of his services and the whacking great transfer fee on offer at the beginning of the debacle.

Realistically, if any player from any club - even Barcelona or Real Madrid - decides he's leaving, then that's the most likely outcome. By hook or by crook. Players hold all the power.

Just like Puel will be gone by Christmas. D'oh!

I disagree with most of what Batman says but this is an unfair stick. It would COST the board money to dispose of Puel whereas we will receive money for selling VVD. There are obvious business advantages to the one over the other.

Sure, but that's not my point. Why is the intention from the board different, which is what this article is suggesting?

In addition to what Cartman posted and re-posted by Trousers, I'd hazard at a guess that the debt levels Cortese built up which seemed to spook the board 3 years ago are much reduced.

“We don’t want to do what we did in the last three summers every year."

 

Important quote from Krueger. Let's remember it.

Why? He's saying that 'we don't want to', not 'we are not going to'. They are worlds apart.

If a top club comes in for one of our players, can offer more in the way or opportunity to win trophies / titles, and can double their wages - then the player will go. It has nothing to do with player loyalty to the club, or the fact that they are under contract for 4 - 5 years - they will (in 99%) of cases go. It is simply market forces, and at this point it is up to Ralph and Les to get the best possible price for the player and then to reinvest that money into replacements / the club.

What b*ll*cks. We can refuse them permission to approach the player. We did it with Morgan.

 

...

What, the Morgan who went to Manchester Utd, that one , or is there another Morgan that wanted away but still plays for us?

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"We would like to..., we don't want to..., we would like to...", they're not exactly the strongest comments of all time!

you can use stronger phrases like "we wont sell" and "he is not going anywhere" as West Ham did with Payet, but what's the point?

I do agree generally with this but go back one yr and i think Lallana, Lovren and Shaw are more like the situation we find ourselves in this year (was chambers that yr too?). Not sure what i mean by it but maybe its not always as simple as length of contract as sure they had a few years left between them?

 

Lallana was one year into a shiny new five year contract when he had a change of heart and ****ed off to Liverpool.

Shaw was one year into a shiny new five year contract when he had a change of heart and ****ed off to United.

Lovren was one year into a shiny new four year contract when he had a change of heart and ****ed off to Liverpool.

Chambers was one year into a shiny new four year contract when he had a change of heart and ****ed off to Arsenal.

I don't think that holding players to their contractual commitments works these days. West Brom did it to Berahino and it went poorly for both club and player. West Ham tried doing it briefly with Payet. He went on strike and forced a move back to his old club. It seems like the player holds most of the cards. As has already been pointed out, several departees were on brand new contracts when they successfully demanded moves from Saints.

I'm hopeful that VVD will stay for another year. There have been some encouraging rumours after he was made captain but we are left hoping that he won't act like all the others if a bigger team comes calling.

Longer contracts mean higher prices are required . We will still sell .

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We say similar every year. We don't intend to sell.... Until the offers come in and players say they want to leave.

Normally Les Says it though (which obviously means the obvious), with RK it may be different.... Time to test him will be next september.

Worried Cedric may be on his way, guys is class.

Just as long as we don't sell our brilliant goalkeeper

When Lallana said " we're leaving" they all left. If VVD says "we're staying" the rest will stay.

If Barcelona come in for VVD though there is nothing we can do and it doesn't matter who is Chairman or Executive Director.

I don't know about the rest of you but I feel we really could be on the cusp of something special and perhaps, just maybe, the players feel the same.

I don't know about the rest of you but I feel we really could be on the cusp of something special and perhaps, just maybe, the players feel the same.

I do understand that to some degree. But when marrying up with stats like league position, goals for and goals against it suggests the cusp was last May when we finished 6th (or actually prior to then).

But there is definitely a huge amount of as yet unfulfilled potential in this squad if they could keep everyone (or just lose VVD for big money) and sign another quality central midfielder.

I do understand that to some degree. But when marrying up with stats like league position, goals for and goals against it suggests the cusp was last May when we finished 6th (or actually prior to then).

 

But there is definitely a huge amount of as yet unfulfilled potential in this squad if they could keep everyone (or just lose VVD for big money) and sign another quality central midfielder.

No.

I feel sorry for Puel.

He's played all season without a striker... then when the board finnaly get him one he loses his defence.

We need a quality CB and perhaps a new GK and then we will tear teams apart next year. Boufal, tadic, redmond, JWP, Davis, Romeu, Cedric, Bertrand, Mqueen, VVFD!!! Gabbi etc. That is some team that will be fresher than their key opposition every single week. We are going places as long as we don't lose any key players this summer.

I see the Cedric to Barca rumours won't go away...

There is a hierarchy in football and if Real Madrid or Barcelona want a player they will typically get them.

 

In the EPL we are level 3 just now and can lose players to Level 1 sides (Man United, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal borderline)

 

What we want to avoid is losing players to Level 2 sides (Liverpool, Spurs, Everton borderline)

 

Spurs (level 2) have players Man United (level 1) will want for example - how do Spurs stop players just insisting on joining United? They dont pay the 200-300k wages that level 1's do and can.

 

We must also stop selling to teams on our level (WHU) OR better still stop selling to EPL clubs all together. If a player is determined to leave - Go, but find a club in Italy, Spain or Germany that will pay the asking price.

 

We are too soft, the equivalent or a Sports Direct EVERYTHING must go sale.

 

Reed and Kruger have lost all trust for me. They simply dont back there words with actions.

Like last year we were a bit slow replacing Pelle with Gabbiadini but to be fair they gave Austin & Rodders time to see if they could regain their potential and again Fonte they believe Stephens will be better but they have now got a short term back up for Virgil, mane was replaced with Redmond and Romeo took over from Wanyama Cedric replaced Clyne with McQueen an able stand in And **** faced Koeman who wanted Saints to lose Sunday was replaced with a far nicer man in Puel

When Lallana said " we're leaving" they all left. If VVD says "we're staying" the rest will stay.

If Barcelona come in for VVD though there is nothing we can do and it doesn't matter who is Chairman or Executive Director.

I think Pochettino was the catalyst more than Lallana. Didn't Shaw say he would have stayed if Pochettino had?