Budget

Good, bad or indifferent?

I don't get what all the fuss is about the NI for self-employed. Why should they not contribute same as employed?

Don't understand the papers getting all excitable. Do they think they should be subsidised by others? Surely not. And 'strivers' - FFS many are contractors just trying to make as much as they can and contribute as little as possible.

All the self employed (it contractors) I know will just put their day rates up to account for it. So businesses will just end up paying more for services. The people who it will hit will be those self employed who can least afford it - hairdressers etc.

Personally, I'm PAYE and about 40 quid better off a month apparently. Would have quite happily kept paying the same and had a functioning NHS or education system. Hey ho.

Good, bad or indifferent?

 

I don't get what all the fuss is about the NI for self-employed. Why should they not contribute same as employed?

Don't understand the papers getting all excitable. Do they think they should be subsidised by others? Surely not. And 'strivers' - FFS many are contractors just trying to make as much as they can and contribute as little as possible.

The media frenzy wasn't about the policy per se, it was about the Tories reneging on an election manifesto pledge.

The media frenzy wasn't about the policy per se, it was about the Tories reneging on an election manifesto pledge.

true, but its still a big storm over a small teacup - 70p pw for a couple of million people. The real scandal is how corporate taxation of multinationals continues to decline even as taxes on individuals increase. Stock markets are at record high for a reason - record profits.

The NIC thing is a red herring as far as contractors are concerned, I think. Most won't pay themselves enough as a salary for it to make much of a dent - ministers claim anyone earning less than £16k will actually benefit, although I've not looked at the detail of that claim.

The big change is the tax-free dividend allowance from £5,000 down to £2,000. That'll cost contractors who take most of their earnings in dividends anything between £225 and £975 a year, depending on whether they take enough to fall into the higher rate.

Of course, that'll be comfortably offset by the reduction in the rate of corporation tax...

Most IR35 contractors obviously pay less tax than is fair anyway (a lot of them are de facto employees, taking the **** with expenses and whatnot) so ******** to them.

Most IR35 contractors obviously pay less tax than is fair anyway (a lot of them are de facto employees, taking the **** with expenses and whatnot) so ******** to them.

What % of the self-employed workforce are IR35 contractors? Such conflations are equally as ridiculous as the suggestion that all self-employed workers are barristers and accountants (another rhetorical smear that has been doing the rounds).

Most IR35 contractors obviously pay less tax than is fair anyway (a lot of them are de facto employees, taking the **** with expenses and whatnot) so ******** to them.

IR35 Contractors won't be complaining, don't worry. The costs are small (ish) in proportion, and as Steve says above, we also have a reduction in Corporation tax over the next few years.

The media frenzy wasn't about the policy per se, it was about the Tories reneging on an election manifesto pledge.

Politicians not keeping election promises? Whatever next!

Also think helped by slow news day.

When are we going to get a Tory budget. Lower taxes, smaller state & lowering debt.

As for the NI issue. Isn't it time NI & income tax was merged. It's just goes into one big pot. Of course the reason it won't happen is because OAP's vote & OAP's don't pay NI, whereas they pay income tax. Can't have rich pensioners facing a tax hike when they vote in great numbers

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What % of the self-employed workforce are IR35 contractors? Such conflations are equally as ridiculous as the suggestion that all self-employed workers are barristers and accountants (another rhetorical smear that has been doing the rounds).

I've no idea. It wasn't a conflation, it was a direct response to the previous post, which talked about contractors.

I'll use the quote function more judiciously in future, to spare us all.

When are we going to get a Tory budget. Lower taxes, smaller state & lowering debt.

 

As for the NI issue. Isn't it time NI & income tax was merged. It's just goes into one big pot. Of course the reason it won't happen is because OAP's vote & OAP's don't pay NI, whereas they pay income tax. Can't have rich pensioners facing a tax hike when they vote in great numbers

Hammond said that he wanted to look after the working classes. So if he is going to raise the NIC rate for the working classes who are self employed, will he also give them sick pay, holiday pay and top up their pension contributions. Just asking as he wants the self employed to be on the same footing as

the employed.

By the way did anyone notice if the millionaire taxpayers will have an increase in their tax rates to finance the increase in public spending, Brexit etc.

There really isnt much different between Tory and Labour tax and spend policies despite the rhetoric. Agree about NI, it was a great PR wheeze post WW2 to convince people they were paying an insurance premium instead of new taxes, but everyone now knows what it is.

 

That graph can not be correct it shows that the highest period of taxation was under a Tory Governemnt led by Saint Maggie, its fake i tells you!

There really isnt much different between Tory and Labour tax and spend policies despite the rhetoric. Agree about NI, it was a great PR wheeze post WW2 to convince people they were paying an insurance premium instead of new taxes, but everyone now knows what it is.

 

The point about Labour and tory spending , over time, being broadly similar is SO important, yet diehards in both camps seem determined not to believe it.

The point about Labour and tory spending , over time, being broadly similar is SO important, yet diehards in both camps seem determined not to believe it.

It's because we've just got 2 basically social democrat parties. We haven't had a Tory Government since Maggie & a proper labour one since Callaghan. The pinkos have taken over. Osborne's deficit reduction plan was just Darlings, but it suited labour to shout about cuts . This suited the Torys because the great unwashed believed they were cutting, and were fiscally responsible , when the truth is the complete opposite. We've been conned, we've had a tiny mild dose of austerity, certainly nothing anywhere near what was needed. We haven't even got inflation to shrink our debts and our growth is pitiful so we can't grow out way out of it. Our generation is handing a poisoned chalice to our children & their children

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It's because we've just got 2 basically social democrat parties. We haven't had a Tory Government since Maggie & a proper labour one since Callaghan. The pinkos have taken over. Osborne's deficit reduction plan was just Darlings, but it suited labour to shout about cuts . This suited the Torys because the great unwashed believed they were cutting, and were fiscally responsible , when the truth is the complete opposite. We've been conned, we've had a tiny mild dose of austerity, certainly nothing anywhere near what was needed. We haven't even got inflation to shrink our debts and our growth is pitiful so we can't grow out way out of it. Our generation is handing a poisoned chalice to our children & their children

 

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So you don't really believe there have been cuts?

What services do you think need cutting more?

Although don't know why I bite as appreciate you see yourself as the forum' Katie Hopkins.

You are quite ignorant of what has gone on in the country and probably quite unconnected to anyone in real need. Did you get this opinion from one of your little podcasts?

So you don't really believe there have been cuts?

What services do you think need cutting more?

Although don't know why I bite as appreciate you see yourself as the forum' Katie Hopkins.

 

You are quite ignorant of what has gone on in the country and probably quite unconnected to anyone in real need. Did you get this opinion from one of your little podcasts?

Don't be a chump where have I said there hasn't been cuts . There hasn't been big enough cuts and we've had the mildest form of austerity imaginable. Pinkos like you fall for all the pony chucked about. We haven't had anything like the austerity the Irish suffered. Debt is going up, we are spending too much money. You maybe happy with that and believe all the pony about austerity, but I'm not and I don't. Deficit deniers like you are quite happy running up bills for future generations to pay off. In peacetime our debt is shocking and needs reducing.

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Don't be a chump where have I said there hasn't been cuts . There hasn't been big enough cuts and we've had the mildest form of austerity imaginable. Pinkos like you fall for all the pony chucked about. We haven't had anything like the austerity the Irish suffered. Debt is going up, we are spending too much money. You maybe happy with that and believe all the pony about austerity, but I'm not and I don't. Deficit deniers like you are quite happy running up bills for future generations to pay off. In peacetime our debt is shocking and needs reducing.

 

 

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'Tiny mild dose' - so practically nothing in your eyes.

Maybe it is adult social care we should be slashing more, or schools or the police?

And Ireland, Greece needed cutting more severely. No comparison with our economy so why would we need the same measures? I will assume you are in the camp that extravagant public spending caused the crash and nothing to do with global banking crisis?

Amusing you think I am a pinko - do you know what that term means? I guess not if applying liberally to anyone who actually thinks we all benefit from a fairer society.

And I am I lucky enough to be able to comfortably provide for my family without being reliant on public services by and large. Although it is essential theta are there for those that aren't as lucky.

That is not meant to sound self-righteous but making point not driven by personal envy.

'Tiny mild dose' - so practically nothing in your eyes.

Maybe it is adult social care we should be slashing more, or schools or the police?

And Ireland, Greece needed cutting more severely. No comparison with our economy so why would we need the same measures? I will assume you are in the camp that extravagant public spending caused the crash and nothing to do with global banking crisis?

 

Amusing you think I am a pinko - do you know what that term means? I guess not if applying liberally to anyone who actually thinks we all benefit from a fairer society.

And I am I lucky enough to be able to comfortably provide for my family without being reliant on public services by and large. Although it is essential theta are there for those that aren't as lucky.

That is not meant to sound self-righteous but making point not driven by personal envy.

how do you make it more fair than it is today. You can get free stuff for life and never lift a finger if you play the system enough.

yet, we have to make loads of cuts for years to come.

So you don't really believe there have been cuts?

What services do you think need cutting more?

Although don't know why I bite as appreciate you see yourself as the forum' Katie Hopkins.

 

You are quite ignorant of what has gone on in the country and probably quite unconnected to anyone in real need. Did you get this opinion from one of your little podcasts?

There have been cuts in increases. We are still spending wildly beyond our means.

There have been cuts in increases. We are still spending wildly beyond our means.

Exactly

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Our schools are in absolute disarray, I dread to think the situation they'll be in in another 10 years time. More children, less money, less resources, less provision for SEN and increasingly, less teachers. The push for grammar schools, while all that is happening right here right now, is a horrendous policy. The recruitment shortage in teaching is exceptionally real and probably affecting all your children right now.

There have been cuts in increases. We are still spending wildly beyond our means.

Coming from an entitlement-showered oldie, that's rich.

The recruitment shortage in teaching is exceptionally real and probably affecting all your children right now.

It's not just recruitment, it's retention - NQT's decide to take up alternative careers straight from college, and a significant proportion that do go into the classroom will leave the profession within 5 years of qualifying.

Coming from an entitlement-showered oldie, that's rich.

'Entitlement-showered'?

Where do you dig up this claptrap? Anything that I get I have paid for several times over.

Our schools are in absolute disarray, I dread to think the situation they'll be in in another 10 years time. More children, less money, less resources, less provision for SEN and increasingly, less teachers. The push for grammar schools, while all that is happening right here right now, is a horrendous policy. The recruitment shortage in teaching is exceptionally real and probably affecting all your children right now.

I expect if the UKIP lot on here had their way anyone with special needs would expect their future to be working for £2/hour for Mike Ashley or Amazon and when finished work they could return to a Capita run workhouse. Just think of the benefit to business. Get back to the good old days when the mill owners had a right to keep their hard earn money.

There have been cuts in increases. We are still spending wildly beyond our means.

You want to suggest where we are spending so wildly? You could also give an example of a country with a society you wish to live in that doesn't have high costs of public services?

'Entitlement-showered'?

 

Where do you dig up this claptrap? Anything that I get I have paid for several times over.

When the rest of us hit 75 there might not be any state pension, which we'll probably would have paid for ten times over.

You want to suggest where we are spending so wildly? You could also give an example of a country with a society you wish to live in that doesn't have high costs of public services?

???

Just take a look at the figures for government borrowing and budget deficits.

No matter how worthy the spending it is unsustainable.

When the rest of us hit 75 there might not be any state pension, which we'll probably would have paid for ten times over.

'Might not'?

'Probably'?

As an example: My wife paid extra whilst she was working and bought extra years for her pension. Her friend who is a couple of years younger received the same amount despite never paying any extra. The plans are for everybody to get the same basic amount whatever their contribution record.

Don't be a chump where have I said there hasn't been cuts . There hasn't been big enough cuts and we've had the mildest form of austerity imaginable. Pinkos like you fall for all the pony chucked about. We haven't had anything like the austerity the Irish suffered. Debt is going up, we are spending too much money. You maybe happy with that and believe all the pony about austerity, but I'm not and I don't. Deficit deniers like you are quite happy running up bills for future generations to pay off. In peacetime our debt is shocking and needs reducing.

 

 

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OK, so you see it as the mildest form of austerity. Exactly what would you do differently?

OK, so you see it as the mildest form of austerity. Exactly what would you do differently?

It's not a question of seeing it as a mild form of austerity, it's a fact that it is.

What would I do? Plenty.

Slash foreign aid for one.

Welfare is too thinly spread.

The triple lock on pensions is unaffordable. Winter fuel allowance & other pensioner perks should go for all but the poorest.

Child benefit? What's all that about in the modern world? A family can be on 50k a year and the state pays them money each month for having children, madness.

Welfare should stop being seen as something you pay into and therefore are entitled to get something out. It should be an insurance, a safety net. We should judge whether we are a caring society by how many people live without government handouts, not how much we spend on welfare. The majority should get a basic pension (paid for by NIC and based on contribution) access to a decent health service and then that's it, no more state involvement unless you've temporary fallen on hard times or are permanently unable to work. The problem is once people are addicted to hand outs they won't give them up. Look at the fuss made when millionaires child benefit was taken away.

My old man was wealthy enough to retire at 55. In 1989 his endowment paid off his mortgage and left him with 18k. He had a final salary pension that nearly 30 years later is paying him over 20k a year, yet he gets winter fuel allowance. He gets a free TV licence, free bus pass . He got child benefit for me and my 2 siblings his whole working life. FFS, my kids and their kids will be paying the bill. Spending more money than you earn today,is stealing money off the next generation. In peacetime it's quite shocking what we're kicking down the road for them to deal with. It's funny how little the caring , sharing, PC generation care about this , they don't give a flying **** about lumbering the next lot with our debts. Pretty selfish behaviour, if you ask me.

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Old people and their massive final salary pensions are the biggest drain. My Nan's generation were respected because they won the war, the next generation are just going to be remembered as the people who wracked up the debt and ****ed up the environment.

By the time I'm old I expect We will be forced to work until we are 70, be on a breadline pension until 75 then compulsory death to save on medical bills.

Old people and their massive final salary pensions are the biggest drain. My Nan's generation were respected because they won the war, the next generation are just going to be remembered as the people who wracked up the debt and ****ed up the environment.

 

By the time I'm old I expect We will be forced to work until we are 70, be on a breadline pension until 75 then compulsory death to save on medical bills.

Final salary pensions? I've heard of them but never seen one. I vaguely remember some old people talking about them but they're up there with Santa Claus, the Yeti and women who always say what they mean. They're a myth that's told to upset youngsters. We're going to discover neutrinos, dark matter, the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy Grail and life on Mars before we ever find evidence of one.

Old people and their massive final salary pensions are the biggest drain. My Nan's generation were respected because they won the war, the next generation are just going to be remembered as the people who wracked up the debt and ****ed up the environment.

 

By the time I'm old I expect We will be forced to work until we are 70, be on a breadline pension until 75 then compulsory death to save on medical bills.

But it's our generation that will howl with outrage if we try and address the issue. People like to portray pensioners as little old ladies burning their furniture to heat their homes. Some are poor but a lot are doing ok & better than ok.

There was nothing wrong with defined benefit pensions. They were part of a decent companies working conditions. Gordon Brown made them unaffordable and therefore made the next generation of pensioners poorer( unless you're in the public sector )

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But it's our generation that will howl with outrage if we try and address the issue. People like to portray pensioners as little old ladies burning their furniture to heat their homes. Some are poor but a lot are doing ok & better than ok.

 

There was nothing wrong with defined benefit pensions. They were part of a decent companies working conditions. Gordon Brown made them unaffordable and therefore made the next generation of pensioners poorer( unless you're in the public sector )

 

 

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Bol_loxs

My pension, which I've paid into since I was 17, has been totally fu_cked around with as the government desperately try to save ££ making me way worse off in the future.

As for cutting services, you've no idea the dire mess schools and colleges are in. Teachers leaving in their droves. A massive, huge, giant recruitment issue, especially in key subjects such as maths and sciences. NQTs burning out and leaving within a few years for better paid, less stressful jobs. Budgets being slashed so hard that schools are planning to close early 2 days a week to save money. SEN provision slashed, despite it being a key OFSTED area, "non critical" subjects being cancelled and teachers laid off to save money. It's all happening now and if your kids are in the state system it's impacting them.

My wife's school has been unable to recruit qualified maths teachers for the last 2 years. Lessons are being taught by non-qualified staff and taught poorly. My own establishment has has to recruit maths teachers from the EU and they've not lasted due to the massive workload & constant exams BS. Less staff means bigger classes and more of them so nearly all non contact time is lost. Bigger/more classes means more marking, prep, reports etc but that all now has to be done in your own time. I teach from 09.00 to 16.30 every day now with a 30min lunch break. On top of that there is about 2/3 hrs of marking/prep/report writing to be done every single day. All the extra support lessons we gave at lunchtime, which used to an hour, have gone. All the extra support classes we did at the end of the day have gone. Ultimately, it's the kids that suffer.

Bol_loxs

 

My pension, which I've paid into since I was 17, has been totally fu_cked around with as the government desperately try to save ££ making me way worse off in the future.

 

As for cutting services, you've no idea the dire mess schools and colleges are in. Teachers leaving in their droves. A massive, huge, giant recruitment issue, especially in key subjects such as maths and sciences. NQTs burning out and leaving within a few years for better paid, less stressful jobs. Budgets being slashed so hard that schools are planning to close early 2 days a week to save money. SEN provision slashed, despite it being a key OFSTED area, "non critical" subjects being cancelled and teachers laid off to save money. It's all happening now and if your kids are in the state system it's impacting them.

 

My wife's school has been unable to recruit qualified maths teachers for the last 2 years. Lessons are being taught by non-qualified staff and taught poorly. My own establishment has has to recruit maths teachers from the EU and they've not lasted due to the massive workload & constant exams BS. Less staff means bigger classes and more of them so nearly all non contact time is lost. Bigger/more classes means more marking, prep, reports etc but that all now has to be done in your own time. I teach from 09.00 to 16.30 every day now with a 30min lunch break. On top of that there is about 2/3 hrs of marking/prep/report writing to be done every single day. All the extra support lessons we gave at lunchtime, which used to an hour, have gone. All the extra support classes we did at the end of the day have gone. Ultimately, it's the kids that suffer.

No he knows. It's pony you see. Everyone has fallen for the illusion of cuts. Only these super smart disconnected people who really know what's going on. Like Cameron not having a clue that Oxfordshire council has had £400m or so taken off their budget and he doesn't get why libraries have to close.

As as for those Surrey Trotskyites running the council and their proposed council tax hike. Nah making it up they ain't had no cuts. Pony. Snowflake pinkos. Cut more like Greece.

No he knows. It's pony you see. Everyone has fallen for the illusion of cuts. Only these super smart disconnected people who really know what's going on. Like Cameron not having a clue that Oxfordshire council has had £400m or so taken off their budget and he doesn't get why libraries have to close.

As as for those Surrey Trotskyites running the council and their proposed council tax hike. Nah making it up they ain't had no cuts. Pony. Snowflake pinkos. Cut more like Greece.

No he knows. It's pony you see. Everyone has fallen for the illusion of cuts. Only these super smart disconnected people who really know what's going on. Like Cameron not having a clue that Oxfordshire council has had £400m or so taken off their budget and he doesn't get why libraries have to close.

As as for those Surrey Trotskyites running the council and their proposed council tax hike. Nah making it up they ain't had no cuts. Pony. Snowflake pinkos. Cut more like Greece.

The simple fact is we are spending more money than we earn. We have not cut enough to pay off the deficit or get our debt down. Stop trying to pretend we have. You may want us to continue to overspend and stop cutting, passing our debts on to our kids & grandkids, that's your opinion. But don't try and claim we've had massive cuts because we haven't.

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Bol_loxs

 

My pension, which I've paid into since I was 17, has been totally fu_cked around with as the government desperately try to save ££ making me way worse off in the future.

 

.

I bet your defined benefit pension hasn't been ****ed around as much as mine has. I wish mine had been ****ed around with, rather than closed.

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Final salary pensions? I've heard of them but never seen one. I vaguely remember some old people talking about them but they're up there with Santa Claus, the Yeti and women who always say what they mean. They're a myth that's told to upset youngsters. We're going to discover neutrinos, dark matter, the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy Grail and life on Mars before we ever find evidence of one.

Final salary pensions are described two posts above yours.

I bet your defined benefit pension hasn't been ****ed around as much as mine has. I wish mine had been ****ed around with, rather than closed.

 

 

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Twowrongsdoesn'tmakearight

As for cutting services, you've no idea the dire mess schools and colleges are in. Teachers leaving in their droves. A massive, huge, giant recruitment issue, especially in key subjects such as maths and sciences. NQTs burning out and leaving within a few years for better paid, less stressful jobs. Budgets being slashed so hard that schools are planning to close early 2 days a week to save money. SEN provision slashed, despite it being a key OFSTED area, "non critical" subjects being cancelled and teachers laid off to save money. It's all happening now and if your kids are in the state system it's impacting them.

 

My wife's school has been unable to recruit qualified maths teachers for the last 2 years. Lessons are being taught by non-qualified staff and taught poorly. My own establishment has has to recruit maths teachers from the EU and they've not lasted due to the massive workload & constant exams BS. Less staff means bigger classes and more of them so nearly all non contact time is lost. Bigger/more classes means more marking, prep, reports etc but that all now has to be done in your own time. I teach from 09.00 to 16.30 every day now with a 30min lunch break. On top of that there is about 2/3 hrs of marking/prep/report writing to be done every single day. All the extra support lessons we gave at lunchtime, which used to an hour, have gone. All the extra support classes we did at the end of the day have gone. Ultimately, it's the kids that suffer.

Trouble is VFTT none of these give a stuff. Most people see no further than the long holidays afforded to teachers and assume it is an easy job. Unless you are in it day in day out it is difficult to comprehend otherwise. Would challenge most on here to go into a school and work in front of a class and see what it's like for themselves. Sorry it isn't easy and your post is a realistic picture. Education is as broken as the NHS in its own way.

There again I suppose we are free to swan off into the sunset with our 'gold-plated' final salary pensions so it can't all be bad.

Trouble is VFTT none of these give a stuff. Most people see no further than the long holidays afforded to teachers and assume it is an easy job. Unless you are in it day in day out it is difficult to comprehend otherwise. Would challenge most on here to go into a school and work in front of a class and see what it's like for themselves. Sorry it isn't easy and your post is a realistic picture. Education is as broken as the NHS in its own way.

 

There again I suppose we are free to swan off into the sunset with our 'gold-plated' final salary pensions so it can't all be bad.

Exactly this. My son has had to endure classes of 32 and constantly changing supply teachers in two key subjects for six months because the school is unable to recruit - and this is an OFSTED rated 'outstanding' school in leafy Sussex. God knows what the situation is like in more challenging or less attractive to work places.

Exactly this. My son has had to endure classes of 32 and constantly changing supply teachers in two key subjects for six months because the school is unable to recruit - and this is an OFSTED rated 'outstanding' school in leafy Sussex. God knows what the situation is like in more challenging or less attractive to work places.

Absolutely dire is the answer and it's getting worse. Golden hellos have made virtually no difference and the much heralded government plan for outstanding teachers to be moved into areas of need, dropped.

Even I'm looking to get out.

Absolutely dire is the answer and it's getting worse. Golden hellos have made virtually no difference and the much heralded government plan for outstanding teachers to be moved into areas of need, dropped.

 

Even I'm looking to get out.

Half of the primary schools in the district my wife used to teach in don't have Head Teachers, and haven't had for nearly 2 years.

Absolutely dire is the answer and it's getting worse. Golden hellos have made virtually no difference and the much heralded government plan for outstanding teachers to be moved into areas of need, dropped.

 

Even I'm looking to get out.

May's answer is to spend £320 million on new free schools and new grammar schools which will become middle-class enclaves while over 30% of mainly urban schools are having their budgets cut.

I'm looking to get out of teaching and virtually the entire bunch of teachers I work with (around 20) are all looking to do the same. It's in dire straits.

Another tory budget, another omnishambles.

This government is extremely fortunate that the Labour Party has ensured that they face no effective opposition in parliament any longer because otherwise they'd be in deep trouble.