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Caceres


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Got play him against Crystal Palace, otherwise, what's the point. Sorry, but Yoshida is just average.

Play him with Jack Stephens, this lad is going to be better than John Stones and Jack will benefit from the experience.

This could be our new back two next season as I can't see big Van playing for us again.

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If he's got no intention of signing for next season then Puel is absolutely right to persist with Yoshida & Stephens. It does make me laugh how people get their knickers in a twist over players leaving, being judas' and showing no loyalty, yet want to dump 2 decent guys for a foreign mercenary who wouldn't give us a second look if he hadn't got injured.

 

 

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If he's got no intention of signing for next season then Puel is absolutely right to persist with Yoshida & Stephens. It does make me laugh how people get their knickers in a twist over players leaving, being judas' and showing no loyalty, yet want to dump 2 decent guys for a foreign mercenary who wouldn't give us a second look if he hadn't got injured.

 

 

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This

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Good move to bring Caceres in as cover but I would leave him as that. Use the opportunity to really give Yosh and Stephens as much experience as possible. Given we have little to play for other than position money it would be sensible to really see if they can make it as long term first choices

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Each place in the premier league is worth £2m and that's why we signed Caceres.

 

We are paying him a reported 100k a week to sit on the bench while our defence lacks leadership and the two CBs lack ability.

 

Complete waste of money

 

Having loyalty to Stephens is admirable but it could be the difference in finishing 8th over 14th or £12m in merit money.

 

+ the EFL cup

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Was talking to a Juventus supporter last week and he wasn t aware we had signed caceres and the first thing he told me was that he was a great right back and he regretted the fact that he left Juventus.

When i told him we had signed to play in the center, he was very surprised because he had never seen him play there. That was my take on the matter

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......Sorry, but Yoshida is just average.

......Jack Stephens is going to be better than John Stones

.........I can't see big Van playing for us again.

 

I guess you'd had more than a few by the time you wrote this? Still, good for a laugh first thing this Monday morning.

 

You won't be nominated for pundit of the year that's for sure.

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Was talking to a Juventus supporter last week and he wasn t aware we had signed caceres and the first thing he told me was that he was a great right back and he regretted the fact that he left Juventus.

When i told him we had signed to play in the center, he was very surprised because he had never seen him play there. That was my take on the matter

I was surprised also as he is under 6 foot tall, I don't think there is much wrong with Maya and Jack. All Jack needs to do is adjust his timing to win more balls in the air, that aside he looks very comfortable on the pitch. Maya Yoshida is very underrated, but then only smart people can see how good he actually is, and for those of you who don't think him and Jack talk being sat behind the goal on Saturday Maya was talking to Jack all the time.

Ah but hang-on it's not a sexy enough line up, bloke from Japan and a nipper out of the academy, in footballing top trumps a bloke from South America beats them every time............ Surely??!!:mcinnes:

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I must have imagined that clean sheet on Saturday, lost for words! :rolleyes:

 

much of that was not due to brilliant defending though.

they missed a few sitters, had one off the line and missed a penalty. This was Bournemouth with the great Afobe up front

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much of that was not due to brilliant defending though.

they missed a few sitters, had one off the line and missed a penalty. This was Bournemouth with the great Afobe up front

 

The defence was the least of our issues, the problem Saturday was lack of cutting edge not giving us the lead for all our possession and dominance for 60 minutes, then we lost the midfield battle due to Wilshire coming on and Bournemouth outnumbering us. The defence stood firm and did their jobs by keeping a clean sheet. Yes we had some luck but if the midfield and strikers had done their jobs we'd have won the match comfortably!

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Caceres was signed as cover. Full stop. Doubt he would be here next season.

 

We were never going to just chuck in a new player with no experience playing in the club's system, or the country for that matter, and who hasn't kicked a ball in months.

 

Obviously the club made a decision to pay a bit extra in order to secure services of someone is theoretically a half-decent player, having looked at the options of out of contract players that would have been available.

 

The alternative would have been to go cheap and bring in someone who probably would be no better than what we already have in the U23s. Imagine the outcry on here if we had done that and then Yoshida or Stephens had picked up an injury or suspension.

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Yoshida has been excellent this season for me - has cut out the disastrous once a game mistakes in the main, reads the game well, pretty comfortable on the ball and has great pace.

 

Anyone who watches us regularly would think the same surely.

 

Stephens shows promise but nowhere near the level of promise that Stones showed at his age, clearly Stones will continue to improve and be a top defender over the next few years.

 

If he's fit enough, I'd play Caceres with Yoshida as we know he has great pedigree, and if fit, should be a better player than Jack. It also won't do Jack any harm to come out of the firing line for a bit. Also, Benteke is exactly the sort of player that Stephens will be bullied by, as with Zlatan in the final

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Each place in the premier league is worth £2m and that's why we signed Caceres.

 

We are paying him a reported 100k a week to sit on the bench while our defence lacks leadership and the two CBs lack ability.

 

Complete waste of money

 

Having loyalty to Stephens is admirable but it could be the difference in finishing 8th over 14th or £12m in merit money.

 

+ the EFL cup

Where has that been reported?

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People don't see past the score very often. The difference between a clean sheet and a sound beating was their inept finishing. For all our position our attempts were half chances mostly, one pretty good one from Long but no real sitters. It was pinball in our box most the second half, they managed to miss a couple of **** easy chances and a penalty.

 

Do people who praise these sorts of clean sheets react with genuine surprise when the same defence gets soundly beaten a week later? We conceded 3 to a **** Watford side and it could have been more. 3 to a **** West Ham side, 3 to Man Utd and most surprisingly, only 2 to Spurs. God knows what the score would have been if Kane had been fit.

 

So only Sunderland and Bournemouth failed to score. One through being a dire side that couldn't even get the ball, the other having a pathetic day in front of goal. Our clean sheets and most results in recent years have been built on not allowing the opposition many shots on goal at all. We now have a confident Palace side with a fast counter attack and powerful striker, and a WBA side that are very strong in the air. With this defence, both these results will depend on their attacks having an off day.

 

I think we might sneak a win v Palace and lose at WBA, and at this stage I guess we probably have to take the points any way they come. Losing VVD and Fonte will hopefully teach the club a lesson as the bad luck/gross incompetence will likely cost us at least a few league positions. What's the financial difference between 8th and 12th these days?

 

 

So we were lucky that bournemouth couldn't finish but at the other end all our chances weren't really chances....sorry that's just bollix.

 

I watched the highlights on the saints site this morning which just reinforces my view of being at the match. We should have been out of sight long before Bournemouth's little rally in the last 20 minutes.

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The thing is, one of the reasons Bournemouth had chances in the second half of the second half was because we had not scored.

 

Goals change matches. We were chasing the win so surrendered some shape in midfield. Had we been the 2 or so goals up, that we should have been, at half time we could have managed the game differently in the second half.

 

So, I agree that the defence is a worry - partly due to no Virgil, partly due to Forster's erratic form and partly due to no decent tackling midfielder other than Romeu - if the forwards would do their job it would take some pressure off the defence.

 

The match on Saturday encapsulated our entire season.

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All these idiots saying 'what was the point signing him if we aren't going to play him?'....

 

If Stephens and Yoshida get injured and we didn't have him, who plays CB dumbasses? He's been brought in as cover with VVD injured and Gaddis seemingly injured again. He clearly wasn't a transfer target for us, otherwise we'd have signed him in Jan. We found ourselves desperately short and so the free agent market was our only option and he was the best available free agent. Doesn't mean he should start.

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Yoshida has been excellent this season for me - has cut out the disastrous once a game mistakes in the main, reads the game well, pretty comfortable on the ball and has great pace.

 

Anyone who watches us regularly would think the same surely.

 

Stephens shows promise but nowhere near the level of promise that Stones showed at his age, clearly Stones will continue to improve and be a top defender over the next few years.

 

If he's fit enough, I'd play Caceres with Yoshida as we know he has great pedigree, and if fit, should be a better player than Jack. It also won't do Jack any harm to come out of the firing line for a bit. Also, Benteke is exactly the sort of player that Stephens will be bullied by, as with Zlatan in the final

 

What game did you watch where Stephens was bullied by Zlatan?! That simply did not happen.

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People don't see past the score very often. The difference between a clean sheet and a sound beating was their inept finishing. For all our position our attempts were half chances mostly, one pretty good one from Long but no real sitters. It was pinball in our box most the second half, they managed to miss a couple of **** easy chances and a penalty.

 

Do people who praise these sorts of clean sheets react with genuine surprise when the same defence gets soundly beaten a week later? We conceded 3 to a **** Watford side and it could have been more. 3 to a **** West Ham side, 3 to Man Utd and most surprisingly, only 2 to Spurs. God knows what the score would have been if Kane had been fit.

 

So only Sunderland and Bournemouth failed to score. One through being a dire side that couldn't even get the ball, the other having a pathetic day in front of goal. Our clean sheets and most results in recent years have been built on not allowing the opposition many shots on goal at all. We now have a confident Palace side with a fast counter attack and powerful striker, and a WBA side that are very strong in the air. With this defence, both these results will depend on their attacks having an off day.

 

I think we might sneak a win v Palace and lose at WBA, and at this stage I guess we probably have to take the points any way they come. Losing VVD and Fonte will hopefully teach the club a lesson as the bad luck/gross incompetence will likely cost us at least a few league positions. What's the financial difference between 8th and 12th these days?

 

All these idiots saying 'what was the point signing him if we aren't going to play him?'....

 

If Stephens and Yoshida get injured and we didn't have him, who plays CB dumbasses? He's been brought in as cover with VVD injured and Gaddis seemingly injured again. He clearly wasn't a transfer target for us, otherwise we'd have signed him in Jan. We found ourselves desperately short and so the free agent market was our only option and he was the best available free agent. Doesn't mean he should start.

 

For anyone just casually skim-reading the thread, these are the only two posts worth reading. You can more-or-less leave it there.

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What game did you watch where Stephens was bullied by Zlatan?! That simply did not happen.

 

Zlatan won basically anything in the air in the final and when it came to the crucial moment, ran off our CBs for an unmarked header in the centre of the goal. Maya at fault there as well of course, but he is our best CB in my opinion, so it's between Jack and Caceres for the other spot.

 

We've conceded goals against the physical teams when we've played them in the last few weeks - Watford, West Ham etc I think Jack will find it hard work against Benteke who will no doubt try and play on him - an international defender who knows a few tricks might be a better bet compared to a youngster still learning his trade.

 

Hope I'm wrong, as I think it will be Jack and Maya again on Wednesday.

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Stephens didn't do any worse against Ibra than Fonte did at OT. In fact he scored a pretty similar header where he bullied Fonte & climbed way above him. We've also struggled to contain Benteke when Fonte & VvD play.

 

Loyalty is a two way street , Stephens deserves some.

 

 

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Stephens didn't do any worse against Ibra than Fonte did at OT. In fact he scored a pretty similar header where he bullied Fonte & climbed way above him. We've also struggled to contain Benteke when Fonte & VvD play.

 

Loyalty is a two way street , Stephens deserves some.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Quite.

 

 

 

I love the accusation that Stephens was bullied by Zlatan as if that some how makes him a lesser player plenty of players have been taken to the cleaners by Zlatan over the years FFS he has probably been one of the best CFs in recent history.

Edited by doddisalegend
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Stephens has done fine, I see no reason to throw Caceres in unless there is an injury or suspension. Jack is the 'future', so we might as well blood him now as opposed to giving opportunities to someone who may not be here next year.

 

We will sign some CB's in the summer, I'm sure, but Jack hasn't done himself any harm over the last couple of months.

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Stephens has done fine, I see no reason to throw Caceres in unless there is an injury or suspension. Jack is the 'future', so we might as well blood him now as opposed to giving opportunities to someone who may not be here next year.

 

We will sign some CB's in the summer, I'm sure, but Jack hasn't done himself any harm over the last couple of months.

 

I doubt Jack is our Future at all. If we are serious about being a decent side, he will be 4th choice again next season.

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I doubt Jack is our Future at all. If we are serious about being a decent side, he will be 4th choice again next season.

 

Have you heard of coaching, of developing players, of players learning from their experience? Are you such a football genius that you know now how an inexperienced player will be in 5 months time. If he's not the future im ****ing sure caceres isn't. Do you think young inexperienced players should just be binned if they're not top quality from the word go. I bet you would have slagged Yoshida this time last year, but by playing regularly he's been a better bet than Fonte

 

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Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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Have you heard of coaching, of developing players, of players learning from their experience? Are you such a football genius that you know now how an inexperienced player will be in 5 months time. If he's not the future im ****ing sure caceres isn't. Do you think young inexperienced players should just be binned if they're not top quality from the word go. I bet you would have slagged Yoshida this time last year, but by playing regularly he's been a better bet than Fonte

 

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assuming VvD is sold in the summer and Caraces does not stay. How many CBs do you think we will get in and where do you think stephens and yoshida fit in that?

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assuming VvD is sold in the summer and Caraces does not stay. How many CBs do you think we will get in and where do you think stephens and yoshida fit in that?

 

We've tended to have 4 , but that's not your point. You wrote" If we are serious about being a decent side " Stephens wasn't the future & should be 4th choice. How on earth can you judge whether Stephens is the future & what stage of his development he'd be at in 4 months. One thing for sure is I doubt he'd be happy with being 4th choice. If we are serious about being a side that develops youngsters with a pathway to the first team, Stephens needs to be third choice pushing the regular 2 for s starting berth.

 

 

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If a mate lent you his Porsche and said "you can drive it over the summer on a sale or return basis, but it's going up for sale in September" do I conclude some you would NOT drive it all because you weren't guaranteed to own it?

You would rather drive round in a Ford Focus?

Because I would drive the Porsche and see if I wanted to make him an offer.

Think about it, guys.

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If a mate lent you his Porsche and said "you can drive it over the summer on a sale or return basis, but it's going up for sale in September" do I conclude some you would NOT drive it all because you weren't guaranteed to own it?

You would rather drive round in a Ford Focus?

Because I would drive the Porsche and see if I wanted to make him an offer.

Think about it, guys.

"Why have none of your other mates, and there's loads of them all over Europe, made any attempt to borrow the keys to your Porsche despite there being not one but two entire Porsche borrowing windows to do that in the last year?"

 

Anyone would conclude it ain't a Porsche and its just a back up car in case one of our other main two cars end up in a pile-up.

Edited by CB Fry
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"Why have none of your other mates, and there's loads of them all over Europe, made any attempt to borrow the keys to your Porsche despite their being not one but two entire Porsche borrowing windows to do that in the last year?"

 

Anyone would conclude it ain't a Porsche and its just a back up car in case one of our other main two cars end up in a pile-up.

 

And takes £100k of diesel a week.

 

And has a ponytail

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Thanks for the rejoinder, CB. However, as I understand it, this Porsche has been in the bodyshop for the last year, so not available for previous Porsche buying/borrowing opportunities at all. Let's give it a test drive, and if it's not up to it, then we go back to our Focus after all. But let's test drive it as we are allegedly paying a large lease fee to have it sat on the forecourt.

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Thanks for the rejoinder, CB. However, as I understand it, this Porsche has been in the bodyshop for the last year, so not available for previous Porsche buying/borrowing opportunities at all. Let's give it a test drive, and if it's not up to it, then we go back to our Focus after all. But let's test drive it as we are allegedly paying a large lease fee to have it sat on the forecourt.

Well he wasn't fit when he joined us anyway, and its interesting that he couldn't find a club at all during the summer or through half the season into the entirity of January. And let's remember we signed him through utter desperation when our two targets went wrong at the last minute.

 

I fully expect him to be rotated in tonight. If he isn't, in a week with three games in it, then it may be we never see him kick a ball for us.

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Well he wasn't fit when he joined us anyway, and its interesting that he couldn't find a club at all during the summer or through half the season into the entirity of January. And let's remember we signed him through utter desperation when our two targets went wrong at the last minute.

 

I fully expect him to be rotated in tonight. If he isn't, in a week with three games in it, then it may be we never see him kick a ball for us.

 

NO NO NO! This was planned. We know exactly who we are bringing in when players leave and have a list of targets drawn up. No one leaves without a replacement coming in. We are constantly monitoring players all over the place as part of our meticulous planning. Caceres was always our first choice it just took a while to get over the line. I'd suggest we have the best centre back options in the premier league now.

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Well he wasn't fit when he joined us anyway, and its interesting that he couldn't find a club at all during the summer or through half the season into the entirity of January. And let's remember we signed him through utter desperation when our two targets went wrong at the last minute.

 

I fully expect him to be rotated in tonight. If he isn't, in a week with three games in it, then it may be we never see him kick a ball for us.

 

I'm expecting him to play as well. Put Stephens alongside Romeu if Yoshida isn't tired from the travel (expecting MC and JS as CBs for that reason). Midfield was dire in last 30 minutes on Sat and if they aren't going to gamble and make forward runs then we have to be more solid and bore our way to a point or nick three.

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If we hadn't had VVD earlier in the season to keep such a tight defense, we would be going down. Poor effort by the management team during the summer, the handling of Fonte's departure was also poor. We are very lucky Gabbiadini came in and started so well otherwise we would be without armbands in poo lagoon.

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Can't understand why Caceres hasn't had even 5 minutes on the pitch. In fact he should have had more than that. Putting him on the bench indicates that he would come on in the event of an injury to Stephens or Yoshida but if that happens he will have had no previous first team experience at all. Surely he should be readied for the possibility of playing by having some game time.

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