Saints V Man City Match Thread & Reaction

 

The amount of excuses people protect Puel with is incredible .

 

According to some the manager is not responsible for the squad he picks , the formation he chooses , the tactics he employs , the motivation of his players etc .

Of course he is... but the kneejerk reactions to managers is laughable. Were you posting the same after the cup final? Managers need time to affect most of the factors that you mention above. Making a judgement on Puel (or any manner) after less than two seasons is pointless.

The one caveat to that is if you're in a relegation spiral - or there are other irreconcilable factors - but if you're doing well (even if it is not as well as some of the unrealistic expectations on here) then there's no reason to change in my opinion.

It's this (bolded) that I continue to comment on. We should play to our strengths, not hope to minimise the oppo's strength. Vainly hoping to hold on to the ball for fear the opposition will hurt us does not work out. It's like a boxer moving backwards around the ring constantly hoping the opponent will tire out. He won't, and you can't win like that. He who dares wins, Rodders, he who dares.

We couldn't even get the ball of city for long periods when we did get the ball we pretty much gave it straight back we couldn't play to our strengths because City had to much quality (and were actually up for it) and we were below par especially in midfield to actually retain the ball.

of course its only Puel who decides the games tactics. Guadiola who is one of the worlds best just dent his team out on a whim. At no time did he plan to stop our attacking threat or plan to nullify us at all.

Without VVD and Romeu we were always on a hiding to nothing. That said, there was a distinctly "on the beach" feel about the performance.

Fans at every club that is thought to be under-performing always turn on the manager, so those Saints' fans doing that are only acting the way others do elsewhere. But it isn't the manager who is out on the pitch. It wasn't the manager who blazed a golden chance over the bar against Man City, it was Tadic. The manager wasn't one of the Saints' defenders in the box who failed to get to the ball from the corner and allowed Kompany to get the crucial first goal. Managers are judged on how well players perform. We have good players, some excellent players but they can make mistakes at key moments. Even world class players make mistakes, but less of them. Clubs in the top 6 have complete squads of world class players and so make fewer mistakes. It really is too easy just to blame the manager.

In a league, you will win some and lose some. I am very happy with this season. Mid table is perfectly acceptable considering, we lost some of our best players in the summer. A new manager. A very heavy fixture list including a European and League Cup campaign. Unlucky LT injuries to key players.

All in all the club has done well, we could have easily buckled and end up fighting relegation.

A bit of perspective is needed by some posters.

In a league, you will win some and lose some. I am very happy with this season. Mid table is perfectly acceptable considering, we lost some of our best players in the summer. A new manager. A very heavy fixture list including a European and League Cup campaign. Unlucky LT injuries to key players.

All in all the club has done well, we could have easily buckled and end up fighting relegation.

A bit of perspective is needed by some posters.

Spot on. People need to remember that a few years ago we were playing the likes of Rochdale, Hartlepool and Yeovil which gives some perspective to the level the club are at now. You don't need to be much older to remember the latter years of our previous time in the Premiership when the 1990s saw regular struggles against relegation often saved only by the brilliance of Matt Le God. As someone else said, we are in the Second Division of the Premier League and occasionally we can punch above our weight but we can't expect to do that every season. With FFP benefiting the big clubs because of their massive commercial income our club has to take a long-term view of trying to build an increased commercial base ourselves because that is what it takes to rise to the next level.

Ah yes , anyone with a different opinion is clueless . No thread is complete without an Always insult .

 

The amount of excuses people protect Puel with is incredible .

 

According to some the manager is not responsible for the squad he picks , the formation he chooses , the tactics he employs , the motivation of his players etc .

 

Its bizarre .

 

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What is bizarre is your need to slaughter Puel at every opportunity. I guess he was responsible for Brexit and the election of Donald Trump too?

A bit of perspective is needed by some posters.

Can we quote you on this when you revert to your usual script a few games into next season?

Can we quote you in this when you revert to your usual script a few games into next season?

Indeed. We have a strange, mellow Dalek on our hands.

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Ah yes , anyone with a different opinion is clueless . No thread is complete without an Always insult .

 

The amount of excuses people protect Puel with is incredible .

 

According to some the manager is not responsible for the squad he picks , the formation he chooses , the tactics he employs , the motivation of his players etc .

 

Its bizarre .

 

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But its not an insult, its a fact...

Unfortunate that Pep finally decided to field his best XI in a 4-2-3-1.

Wish he'd served up the team that Monaco thrashed in that unbalanced 4-1-2-3 he kept trying to get to work instead.

Kompany and Otamendi with Toure and Fernandinho in front are a difficult nut to crack. If all for had played the majority of games for them this season then they'd be up with Chelsea on points.

Well, two days on, I have arrived back in Cornwall, having been at the match on Saturday. I am amazed at some of the comments on this thread - the first comments I have read since being at St Mary's. The way I saw it was that we were outclassed in the end, but is that surprising? City have all the assets that we can only dream of - THE top European manager when he was appointed last year, some of the greatest players in the world - the only question I would have if I were a City supporter is "Why didn't they do this throughout the season?" It was not a bad performance from Saints at all, particularly considering the missing players, so how this defeat can be used by some to question our management is beyond me. It must be serious when I agree with a Dalek comment - "Show some perspective" - I must be getting old.

How Aguaro, one of the smallest on the pitch, outjumped Foster and our two tallest defenders for the third goal, is beyond me.

And for those wanting a knee jerk reaction to sack Puel. I present Exhibit A: Birmingham City.

And for those wanting a knee jerk reaction to sack Puel. I present Exhibit A: Birmingham City.

that does not prove anything what so ever to any debate

And for those wanting a knee jerk reaction to sack Puel. I present Exhibit A: Birmingham City.

What are you getting at here?

Not sure there was any calls for Rowett to be sacked back at the start of the season, but their owners wanted to make a bit of a statement and a change.

I don't think getting rid of Zola would be classed as knee jerk! An absolute failure of a manger, 2 wins out of 20 odd! From flirting with the playoffs under Rowett, to hanging on to the league under Zola...!

Fans at every club that is thought to be under-performing always turn on the manager, so those Saints' fans doing that are only acting the way others do elsewhere. But it isn't the manager who is out on the pitch. It wasn't the manager who blazed a golden chance over the bar against Man City, it was Tadic. The manager wasn't one of the Saints' defenders in the box who failed to get to the ball from the corner and allowed Kompany to get the crucial first goal. Managers are judged on how well players perform. We have good players, some excellent players but they can make mistakes at key moments. Even world class players make mistakes, but less of them. Clubs in the top 6 have complete squads of world class players and so make fewer mistakes. It really is too easy just to blame the manager.

OK, so lets hope that our players have not decided to stop playing for Puel, the way that bunch of barstewards up at Leicester stopped playing for Ranieri.

Well, two days on, I have arrived back in Cornwall, having been at the match on Saturday. I am amazed at some of the comments on this thread - the first comments I have read since being at St Mary's. The way I saw it was that we were outclassed in the end, but is that surprising? City have all the assets that we can only dream of - THE top European manager when he was appointed last year, some of the greatest players in the world - the only question I would have if I were a City supporter is "Why didn't they do this throughout the season?" It was not a bad performance from Saints at all, particularly considering the missing players, so how this defeat can be used by some to question our management is beyond me. It must be serious when I agree with a Dalek comment - "Show some perspective" - I must be getting old.

I don't think people are getting at Puel just because we lost, clearly City are a class above in terms of ability and if on top of their game, which they were, would fully expect to beat us. There is no shame in losing to a better team.

What really annoys me and I think others is the manager's approach to games. From the first minute it looked like our sole objective was to just try and keep the score down and we had already accepted our fate. That is both horrible to watch, and it's very unlikely to get you a result. We are so much better when we get at teams and try and unsettle them, but we just gave City far too much respect, as good as they were. This has been an all too familiar approach to games this season, especially at home.

I can take losing if we give it a go but on Saturday we just meekly surrendered.

Fans at every club that is thought to be under-performing always turn on the manager, so those Saints' fans doing that are only acting the way others do elsewhere. But it isn't the manager who is out on the pitch. It wasn't the manager who blazed a golden chance over the bar against Man City, it was Tadic. The manager wasn't one of the Saints' defenders in the box who failed to get to the ball from the corner and allowed Kompany to get the crucial first goal. Managers are judged on how well players perform. We have good players, some excellent players but they can make mistakes at key moments. Even world class players make mistakes, but less of them. Clubs in the top 6 have complete squads of world class players and so make fewer mistakes. It really is too easy just to blame the manager.

You realise that Puel is supposed to coach the players though right ?

If a certain player can't shoot for toffee then work on it in training . Improve their positioning and mindset .

Tadic has not improved his shooting at all .

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What is bizarre is your need to slaughter Puel at every opportunity. I guess he was responsible for Brexit and the election of Donald Trump too?

Puel is in a position where he is judged . Is that not allowed now either ?

He is supposed to earn his position hence the income and status .

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But its not an insult, its a fact...

Haha claims the guy who loves to tell everyone who he has blocked .

Were you not getting enough attention that you had to unblock me ?

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I don't think people are getting at Puel just because we lost, clearly City are a class above in terms of ability and if on top of their game, which they were, would fully expect to beat us. There is no shame in losing to a better team.

What really annoys me and I think others is the manager's approach to games. From the first minute it looked like our sole objective was to just try and keep the score down and we had already accepted our fate. That is both horrible to watch, and it's very unlikely to get you a result. We are so much better when we get at teams and try and unsettle them, but we just gave City far too much respect, as good as they were. This has been an all too familiar approach to games this season, especially at home.

I can take losing if we give it a go but on Saturday we just meekly surrendered.

Very well said .

A great manager can build a team that over-performs .

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Indeed. We have a strange, mellow Dalek on our hands.

 

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That's because we have 40 points! Dalek's holy grail!

Regarding the criticism (not from you) of our 'approach', in the first half at least, let's not forget that we probably had the best chance of the game which Tadic inexplicably and unacceptably blasted over. If that goes in, Puel is a master tactician, is he not?

Their first goal was arguably a foul - Kompany made so many of those kinds of fouls throughout the game - who knows if we could have kept them at bay for longer, obviously the first goal was crucial and conceding from a corner does not clearly point to a poor strategy (though how often in games when the big teams are struggling to break down the opposition does the breakthrough finally come from a corner or penalty?)

It's fair to question the decision to put Boufal on alongside Tadic and Redmond again, especially with Long up front who doesn't hold it up. We saw against Bournemouth what happens to our midfield, and City took advantage. In hindsight, we would have been better to keep it tight and look to capitalise on a corner, mistake etc, much like we did at their place. But I can at least see why we went for it, we were losing after all.

That's because we have 40 points! Dalek's holy grail!

 

Regarding the criticism (not from you) of our 'approach', in the first half at least, let's not forget that we probably had the best chance of the game which Tadic inexplicably and unacceptably blasted over. If that goes in, Puel is a master tactician, is he not?

 

Their first goal was arguably a foul - Kompany made so many of those kinds of fouls throughout the game - who knows if we could have kept them at bay for longer, obviously the first goal was crucial and conceding from a corner does not clearly point to a poor strategy (though how often in games when the big teams are struggling to break down the opposition does the breakthrough finally come from a corner or penalty?)

 

It's fair to question the decision to put Boufal on alongside Tadic and Redmond again, especially with Long up front who doesn't hold it up. We saw against Bournemouth what happens to our midfield, and City took advantage. In hindsight, we would have been better to keep it tight and look to capitalise on a corner, mistake etc, much like we did at their place. But I can at least see why we went for it, we were losing after all.

exactly, many might forget we also lost 3-0 at home to City back in the 2014-15 season- and that game had Mangala sent off too. They are just an excellent team, no shame in losing- we only beat them 4-2 last season because they had both eyes on their Madrid game and a manager who by that point was confirmed replaced by Pep.

exactly, many might forget we also lost 3-0 at home to City back in the 2014-15 season- and that game had Mangala sent off too. They are just an excellent team, no shame in losing- we only beat them 4-2 last season because they had both eyes on their Madrid game and a manager who by that point was confirmed replaced by Pep.

And we convincingly beat them in their title-defence 2012/13 season while an injury-hit side outplayed them in their title-winning 2013/14 season.

And we convincingly beat them in their title-defence 2012/13 season while an injury-hit side outplayed them in their title-winning 2013/14 season.

Was that Pochettino, 3-1? I recall that being one of the best games we've played since our return to the Prem, our central midfield was brilliant - Schneiderlin, Cork & Davis completely played them off the park.

I don't mind us setting up a bit more tactically/defensively/cautiously against the teams at the top, but I'd like to think that we don't automatically play that way just because we're playing a top team. Does that make sense? So if Puel looks at City or Liverpool and thinks that's the best way to beat them, so be it, but I hope it's not the default to go defensive and basically show too much respect (fear) to the opponents.

Was that Pochettino, 3-1? I recall that being one of the best games we've played since our return to the Prem, our central midfield was brilliant - Schneiderlin, Cork & Davis completely played them off the park.

 

I don't mind us setting up a bit more tactically/defensively/cautiously against the teams at the top, but I'd like to think that we don't automatically play that way just because we're playing a top team. Does that make sense? So if Puel looks at City or Liverpool and thinks that's the best way to beat them, so be it, but I hope it's not the default to go defensive and basically show too much respect (fear) to the opponents.

That's the one. We were also very good value in the 1-1 draw and arguably should have won -and that was without Schneiderlin, Wanyama and Boruc IIRC.

I agree: just as we shouldn't necessarily go all out against the top sides; nor should we necessarily set up defensively against them either.

In effect, horses for courses. Man City have defensive frailties, even with Kompany looking like his old self. In particular, their midfield isnt set up for a scrap -in those aforementioned games, we put the likes of Touré under pressure and reaped the rewards. Toure's great when he has time on the ball but a liability when it comes to rolling his sleeves up and tracking back.

We frankly played into their hands by gifting the most technically-polished side in the league possession, though we desperately missed VVD and Romeu. In particular, we struggled without Romeu to keep possession and play through the lines when there was a sniff of a counterattack or an overload (as we were set up to exploit).

That's the one. We were also very good value in the 1-1 draw and arguably should have won -and that was without Schneiderlin, Wanyama and Boruc IIRC.

 

I agree: just as we shouldn't necessarily go all out against the top sides; nor should we necessarily set up defensively against them either.

 

In effect, horses for courses. Man City have defensive frailties, even with Kompany looking like his old self. In particular, their midfield isnt set up for a scrap -in those aforementioned games, we put the likes of Touré under pressure and reaped the rewards. Toure's great when he has time on the ball but a liability when it comes to rolling his sleeves up and tracking back.

 

We frankly played into their hands by gifting the most technically-polished side in the league possession, though we desperately missed VVD and Romeu. In particular, we struggled without Romeu to keep possession and play through the lines when there was a sniff of a counterattack or an overload (as we were set up to exploit).

I would agree with that. Generally, this is how we've played against the 'top teams' this year. Not very aggressive, playing on the back foot etc. The Man Utd friday game at the start of the season was an illustration of things to come in that respect.

We caused Utd tons of problems in the EFL Final by attacking them and playing on the front foot, but arguably the scoreline forced us to play that way. With the players we have, we should play on the front foot. We're not good enough to try and contain the 'top sides'. We should just give them a game, but you need management who isn't afraid to take a gamble and play a risk. It does seem as if Puel is very much a safety first manager.

I would agree with that. Generally, this is how we've played against the 'top teams' this year. Not very aggressive, playing on the back foot etc. The Man Utd friday game at the start of the season was an illustration of things to come in that respect.

 

We caused Utd tons of problems in the EFL Final by attacking them and playing on the front foot, but arguably the scoreline forced us to play that way. With the players we have, we should play on the front foot. We're not good enough to try and contain the 'top sides'. We should just give them a game, but you need management who isn't afraid to take a gamble and play a risk. It does seem as if Puel is very much a safety first manager.

On the other hand city took us a part trying to play it safe if we had just gone for it they probably have beaten us by a cricket score the way they were playing. Had Gabbi and Tadic done better on that chance at 0-0 it could have been a different game.

On the other hand city took us a part trying to play it safe if we had just gone for it they probably have beaten us by a cricket score the way they were playing. Had Gabbi and Tadic done better on that chance at 0-0 it could have been a different game.

I don't think they really took us apart, we just played into their hands really. It would have changed their mindset had we started on the front foot, but to be fair he's just working with a limited squad which probably can't do what he wants right now - will be interesting to see what he does in the summer.

It's like watching a boxing match where one guy stands there and just gets punched over and over, no attempt to fight back and is then KOd in the 2nd round.

Would much prefer to see a few punches thrown and landed rather than the dross served up this season.

At least get KOd with some pride ffs

BIG 6 results = LLLDDLLL (scored 4) so far - compare that to last season LWDLWWWDLWWW (scored 24) we just aren't throwing punches under Puel.

Man up Puel

#ffs

How Aguaro, one of the smallest on the pitch, outjumped Foster and our two tallest defenders for the third goal, is beyond me.

Easy - positioning and timing - 2 of the attributes of a world class player

It's like watching a boxing match where one guy stands there and just gets punched over and over, no attempt to fight back and is then KOd in the 2nd round.

 

Would much prefer to see a few punches thrown and landed rather than the dross served up this season.

 

At least get KOd with some pride ffs

 

BIG 6 results = LLLDDLLL (scored 4) so far - compare that to last season LWDLWWWDLWWW (scored 24) we just aren't throwing punches under Puel.

 

Man up Puel

 

#ffs

And we convincingly beat them in their title-defence 2012/13 season while an injury-hit side outplayed them in their title-winning 2013/14 season.

Was that the one when Hart spilt a tame effort on the goal-line and Barry scored a pathetic own goal?

Quite an entertaining match!

Was that the one when Hart spilt a tame effort on the goal-line and Barry scored a pathetic own goal?

That's the one. Also the one where we allowed them to score from a counterattack from a bungled corner.

That's the one. Also the one where we allowed them to score from a counterattack from a bungled corner.

Christ, of course! When Danny Fox tried to tee someone up 'on the scholes' but just chipped it to a City player