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No ambition from the club, players or fans!


mattyd

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

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This is because the club has been up for sale for the last year or two , if not on the open market , then is has been prepared for sale .

So no major investment in players or managers etc until it is sold and judging by the owners of say Cardiff , Leeds , Orient , Hull etc , being sold may not be the answer we ,the fans , are hoping for !!

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Top half finish and a cup final.. During my 40 odd year supporting tenure that can be considered a pretty good season.

 

Who moved the expectation goalposts?

 

The situation we find our self now, is completely different to those during the 90's and 2000's... that's what has moved the goalposts.

 

Lets take Tottenham for example... from 1990 - 2010 their average league position is 10th. Do you think they would accept a top half finish now, just because they we're average during the 90's?

 

You cannot judge success on previous failures. As a club grows, ambition / targets changes.

 

In answer to the OP, I don't think it's that we lack ambition, I just believe it's that Kat cannot afford to throw money about, like Cortese had done with her fathers (I do wonder where we would be if we still had them both.. I suspect either top 4 or bankrupt). After all, if we really lacked ambition, would we have invested as much as we did in the training ground?

 

I do agree that some of our fans lack ambition though. Some would just happy to be in the lower - mid table of the PL.

 

Once new investment comes in, I fully expect player sales to slow however, due to FFP, you have to live within your means. If we get a bid of £50m for a player, we have to accept it. As frustrating as that can be for Fans.

 

I think it is the right time for Kat to sale, she's openly admitted that we need new investment to take us to the next level, I just hope she finds and chooses the right buyer, who keep the same infrastructure in place (i.e keep Les!!!).

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The situation we find our self now, is completely different to those during the 90's and 2000's... that's what has moved the goalposts.

 

Lets take Tottenham for example... from 1990 - 2010 their average league position is 10th. Do you think they would accept a top half finish now, just because they we're average during the 90's?

 

You cannot judge success on previous failures. As a club grows, ambition / targets changes.

 

In answer to the OP, I don't think it's that we lack ambition, I just believe it's that Kat cannot afford to throw money about, like Cortese had done with her fathers (I do wonder where we would be if we still had them both.. I suspect either top 4 or bankrupt). After all, if we really lacked ambition, would we have invested as much as we did in the training ground?

 

I do agree that some of our fans lack ambition though. Some would just happy to be in the lower - mid table of the PL.

 

Once new investment comes in, I fully expect player sales to slow however, due to FFP, you have to live within your means. If we get a bid of £50m for a player, we have to accept it. As frustrating as that can be for Fans.

 

I think it is the right time for Kat to sale, she's openly admitted that we need new investment to take us to the next level, I just hope she finds and chooses the right buyer, who keep the same infrastructure in place (i.e keep Les!!!).

 

On the money again mate. Top post

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

 

Are you one of the new breed of supporter?

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If the club had no ambition why didn't they settle for the mediocrity of Division 3 with large crowds (for that division) and low wages? Until this season it has been steady progress every year since then, and even then our "hiccup" included some European ties and a Wembley appearance. What club (by their own standards) doesn't have the odd "bad" season ? Chelsea and ManUre last season are perfect examples, it's not having one bad season that shows a lack of ambition, it's how you react to it. Next year would be the time to judge, not now. Having said that I've seen nothing to suggest the club - or fans - have no ambition, just that they and most fans have realistic ambitions and realise success doesn't happen overnight.

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If the club had no ambition why didn't they settle for the mediocrity of Division 3 with large crowds (for that division) and low wages? Until this season it has been steady progress every year since then, and even then our "hiccup" included some European ties and a Wembley appearance. What club (by their own standards) doesn't have the odd "bad" season ? Chelsea and ManUre last season are perfect examples, it's not having one bad season that shows a lack of ambition, it's how you react to it. Next year would be the time to judge, not now. Having said that I've seen nothing to suggest the club - or fans - have no ambition, just that they and most fans have realistic ambitions and realise success doesn't happen overnight.

 

Totally Agree with this post

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The situation we find our self now, is completely different to those during the 90's and 2000's... that's what has moved the goalposts.

 

Lets take Tottenham for example... from 1990 - 2010 their average league position is 10th. Do you think they would accept a top half finish now, just because they we're average during the 90's?

 

You cannot judge success on previous failures. As a club grows, ambition / targets changes.

 

In answer to the OP, I don't think it's that we lack ambition, I just believe it's that Kat cannot afford to throw money about, like Cortese had done with her fathers (I do wonder where we would be if we still had them both.. I suspect either top 4 or bankrupt). After all, if we really lacked ambition, would we have invested as much as we did in the training ground?

 

I do agree that some of our fans lack ambition though. Some would just happy to be in the lower - mid table of the PL.

 

Once new investment comes in, I fully expect player sales to slow however, due to FFP, you have to live within your means. If we get a bid of £50m for a player, we have to accept it. As frustrating as that can be for Fans.

 

I think it is the right time for Kat to sale, she's openly admitted that we need new investment to take us to the next level, I just hope she finds and chooses the right buyer, who keep the same infrastructure in place (i.e keep Les!!!).

 

I see the situation now as quite similar now to how it's been in my 40 years supporting regardless of what Tottenham have done (no idea why they are relevant to my expectations...)

 

I can easily name 10 clubs both then and now with greater financial clout than us, bigger stadiums, bigger fan base, bigger revenue streams, bigger sponsorship deals, etc. I therefore see us being managed pretty well right now to be punching above our expected weight and hitting the top 10 whilst we will all agree during periods in the past we haven't been managed so well and have dropped below my expectations.

 

Maybe I'm one of those fans you talk of who lacks ambition, maybe I'm just a realist... We could debate the definition of ambition of course, seems yours involves chucking somebody else money at it, the more we spend, the more ambitious we are. I'd argue that it is more ambitious to try and do things a little differently to the rest and we've been pretty successful at that over the last few years....

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

 

Sorry, but that is utter tosh.

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The situation we find our self now, is completely different to those during the 90's and 2000's... that's what has moved the goalposts.

 

Lets take Tottenham for example... from 1990 - 2010 their average league position is 10th. Do you think they would accept a top half finish now, just because they we're average during the 90's?

 

You cannot judge success on previous failures. As a club grows, ambition / targets changes.

 

In answer to the OP, I don't think it's that we lack ambition, I just believe it's that Kat cannot afford to throw money about, like Cortese had done with her fathers (I do wonder where we would be if we still had them both.. I suspect either top 4 or bankrupt). After all, if we really lacked ambition, would we have invested as much as we did in the training ground?

 

I do agree that some of our fans lack ambition though. Some would just happy to be in the lower - mid table of the PL.

 

Once new investment comes in, I fully expect player sales to slow however, due to FFP, you have to live within your means. If we get a bid of £50m for a player, we have to accept it. As frustrating as that can be for Fans.

 

I think it is the right time for Kat to sale, she's openly admitted that we need new investment to take us to the next level, I just hope she finds and chooses the right buyer, who keep the same infrastructure in place (i.e keep Les!!!).

 

 

No idea what Tottenham have got to do with anything, suffice to say throughout that entire time you are talking about they remained a far bigger club than us, mid table finishes or not, and we finished above them only a handful of times during that period. Of course Tottenham wouldn't be happy with a 10th place now, but our equivalent to that would be mid table in the Championship, and no one on her is saying they'd be happy with that. So what's your point?

 

Targets do change over time, which is why Leeds and Villa have a target to get promoted back to the Premier League. Ours has changed from promotion, to staying up to challenging for the European places. The target hasn't changed. We've fallen short this season but anyone that thinks we were going to be top six without fail every single season forever from now is a moron.

 

I have no expectation whatsoever that new investment will suddenly turn us into Manchester City or anything like it. KL wants to sell up because of she doesn't have the stomach for the ongoing investment season after season to stay where we are, not because she hasn't got the investment to smash the champions league (which she hasn't got either). I doubt very much that any new owner will deliver that, outside of a Leicester freak-show.

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We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

Bull**** every club sells, doesnt matter who it is, even Man Utd sold Ronaldo ffs, Liverpool sold Suarez and thats worked out well for them hasnt it ?

 

Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle - all big clubs and all have been selling clubs to varying degrees of success or failure.

Spurs will end up selling Kane and Ali at some point. Its football. We arent anything special in that regard, its how the club operates.

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

 

You sound like one of those self entitled Man U fans who phones into 606 who everybody hates. I think the best solution would be to support a different club.

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We're not the laughing stock of the league though are we?

 

We're probably pretty well respected and admired for how we keep going every year as we do, we're far from being the laughing stock. I'd imagine some clubs would quite like to be a bit like us.

 

A seriously emotionally knee-jerky post though, so well done.

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You sound like one of those self entitled Man U fans who phones into 606 who everybody hates. I think the best solution would be to support a different club.

 

It would be good if several of the loons on here would do the same too, but in truth most of them don`t actually support Saints at all though, but they

are easy to spot...

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No idea what Tottenham have got to do with anything, suffice to say throughout that entire time you are talking about they remained a far bigger club than us, mid table finishes or not, and we finished above them only a handful of times during that period. Of course Tottenham wouldn't be happy with a 10th place now, but our equivalent to that would be mid table in the Championship, and no one on her is saying they'd be happy with that. So what's your point?

 

Targets do change over time, which is why Leeds and Villa have a target to get promoted back to the Premier League. Ours has changed from promotion, to staying up to challenging for the European places. The target hasn't changed. We've fallen short this season but anyone that thinks we were going to be top six without fail every single season forever from now is a moron.

 

I have no expectation whatsoever that new investment will suddenly turn us into Manchester City or anything like it. KL wants to sell up because of she doesn't have the stomach for the ongoing investment season after season to stay where we are, not because she hasn't got the investment to smash the champions league (which she hasn't got either). I doubt very much that any new owner will deliver that, outside of a Leicester freak-show.

 

Tottenham are just an example of where you would not judge current expectations on previous failures. At no point did I compare the size of our club to Tottenham or say we should have the same expectations. I would say the same could be said about Everton and West Ham (as also shown this year as they will sack their manager)

 

Of course we won't finish top 6 or 7 every season, but given our recent history, European qualification should be the target for every season, IMO. Whilst current league position may not suggest it, this season I would say we are as far away from the top 7 than we have been since we came back to the PL.

 

I also do not expect any new investment to turn us into Man City, even if they wanted to.. they couldn't due to FFP. All I said was that I would expect players sales to slow (not stop) when new owners come with more money. I believe it was reported on here that she is possibly 'only' worth a couple of hundred million, which isn't a great deal in terms of football club owners.

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

 

So showing ambition is now equivalent to acting like a 8/80 year old and complaining and sulking about everything. If you can't appreciate the fantastic development this club has done in recent years you support the wrong team mate. Of course its valid to be a bit disappointed about this season which I believe a lot of fans is.

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This season has been a let down, make no mistake. Les and his player selling, Les and his failure to invest in a striker during the summer, Les and the lack of cover at CB, an owner who wants out and has no intention of investing and a playing staff who see us as a hotel on the way to a greater destination.

 

Add to this and you have a manager nobody wants, who is negative and lacks tactical skill and a fan base who should be vocal about going backward as a club. Instead we just keep rehashing history about administration, The Dell and for all I know the war.

 

When was the last time we sold a first team player because we recruited better? Jack Cork maybe. We are the laughing stock of the league, the only selling club with 30K gates!

 

I for one am excited for the right new owner to come along.

 

Potential 10 top finish, beating Milan & a Cup Final ... jeez! I bet 80 other clubs in the league would rather be in our position:mcinnes:

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By all measures (average gates, social media followers etc), our fan base and attendances are the 12th biggest in the country. So, fans who think we should expect to be in a relegation struggle or even in the Championship and that anything better than that is overachieving are far from the mark. It is true, however, that, for our size, in terms of trophies won over our entire history, we are possibly the most underachieving club in the country and that has lowered fans' expectations. We have had plenty of blips taking us below where a club of our size ought to be, but precious few taking us above it. We probably need the break at least once in our history of getting a wealthy owner investing in success, like Leicester and Blackburn, for example, had.

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I work with three Liverpool fans (only one's a near Scouser from the Wirrell btw) they don't laugh at us nor does my neighbour who also support Liverpool. I work with a couple of Man U fans also they don't think we're a laughing stock either, nor do the Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham and Spurs fans. The Reading and QPR fans would cut their own right arm off to be in our position. The only ones who don't quite get it are the kids. They've been fed the modern Sky branded football and are also, by nature, rather immature. If the OP is similar in age then his bleats are a little understandable if not then he is a tool.

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Liverpool don't laugh at us. They thank us

 

Seen a few Liverpool fans with Les Reed on the shirt recently ;)

 

What number do they have on their back? I'm thinking of getting a les reed saints shirt with our net spend on it.

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Bit all people stating top 10, with our run in we could end up 15th, we bombed out of Europa which we shouldn't off, we could end up 20pts from 7th , the cup final was great but overall I think people are entitled to question ambition

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Bit all people stating top 10, with our run in we could end up 15th, we bombed out of Europa which we shouldn't off, we could end up 20pts from 7th , the cup final was great but overall I think people are entitled to question ambition

 

This doesn't make any sense.

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We're not the laughing stock of the league though are we?

 

We're probably pretty well respected and admired for how we keep going every year as we do, we're far from being the laughing stock. I'd imagine some clubs would quite like to be a bit like us.

 

A seriously emotionally knee-jerky post though, so well done.

 

No, I don't think SFC are a laughing stock. Everybody has a bad season now and again - even Man U. Lawrie had in 1982-3 when Keegan and a few key players left that were high profile and Shilts was bedding in. 83-84 is probably the best in this club's history. Different era I know but shows that you can regenerate. Look what we did in 2015 as well.

 

The one concern I have on the team side is the manager - I've changed my mind 2 or 3 times - wanted him out, then impressed by EFL Final and style of play but the last displays V City and Hull have been dreadfully lethargic (Chelsea was better) with some very poor tactics and the unwillingness to learn from the second half mess v Bournemouth is a major concern. The manager can be changed though and someone a bit more engaging and upbeat would probably improve the 'mood hoover' atmosphere on here at present. Coming after Koeman was a bit like the Lord Mayor's Show - I'm sure Puel is a fine manager but plenty of fine managers don't work at some clubs but are brilliant at others (Howe at Burnley, Hodgson at Blackburn but Fulham legend). Les might just have to bite the bullet this time and fire up the black box.

 

Lander worry me far more than who is manager and would in an ideal world retain the status quo in terms of owner until somebody far more suitable (and able to invest) comes along.

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This doesn't make any sense.

 

I think he meant write off - and I agree if he did. SFC should have comfortably progressed from that group. Sparta were shocking at SMS and don't think the other two teams were great. Having said that, Puel was left a striker short - Alpine would have had more chance of scoring than J Rod or Long in the away games.

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I doubt we are a laughing stock to the rest of the league but we are a shop window for them all, they know they can call and get what they want and that really annoys me especially as I've got friends in Liverpool, yes they laugh at me and say they wiil take VVD and Bertrand this summer

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It would be good if several of the loons on here would do the same too, but in truth most of them don`t actually support Saints at all though, but they

are easy to spot...

 

Your right, I dont support saints, never have done for sixty years, I only come on here soley to read your quality posts.

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Top half finish and a cup final.. During my 40 odd year supporting tenure that can be considered a pretty good season.

 

Who moved the expectation goalposts?

 

 

I thought so, we fans are an annoying bunch of old gits who have forgotten our place and have seditious thoughts well above our station in life.... how dare we rock the corporate boat!

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I see the situation now as quite similar now to how it's been in my 40 years supporting regardless of what Tottenham have done (no idea why they are relevant to my expectations...)

 

I can easily name 10 clubs both then and now with greater financial clout than us, bigger stadiums, bigger fan base, bigger revenue streams, bigger sponsorship deals, etc. I therefore see us being managed pretty well right now to be punching above our expected weight and hitting the top 10 whilst we will all agree during periods in the past we haven't been managed so well and have dropped below my expectations.

 

Maybe I'm one of those fans you talk of who lacks ambition, maybe I'm just a realist... We could debate the definition of ambition of course, seems yours involves chucking somebody else money at it, the more we spend, the more ambitious we are. I'd argue that it is more ambitious to try and do things a little differently to the rest and we've been pretty successful at that over the last few years....

 

You are dead right on that one !

I'm afraid that a number of posters reckon that ambition is defined by slagging off the owner, DoF, manager and players (in any order you choose!) on a continual basis !

Strangely, in my (fairly successful) business life I always found that positivity, support, encouragement etc.. were far more likely to motivate and produce good performance and I certainly would not have advised my team that "we were the laughing stock" of our sector !

Because we are on an internet forum, these people are regarded as 'trolls' but for me, they are just a bit thick !!

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