James Ward-Prowse

Played some of the best football of his career last season on the right , I think current form you could say everyone who plays forward from Romeu have been "not good enough", "Needs to find a set position" , "I don't see what he brings to the team" etc etc !

There's no doubt that he is a very talented, technically perfect, young lad and I'm sure on the training ground he looks fantastic, when he has all the time in the world on the ball. However, he is far to weak, slow (both with and without the ball), poor defensively and isn't great going forwards.

I would be very intrested to hear what those who rate him think he brings to the team?

Quality crosses? Meh, pointless we don't score from any of them.

Keeps the ball well? Just what we need another player who can pass sidewards 5 yards and allow the opposition to get back into shape.

For me, you struggle to find a position for him. You can play him on the right, but I'd much prefer someone who is direct and can counter quickly.

He's a decent and intelligent bloke, but he's just not good enough for the PL. given the choice, I'd have Harry Reed over him every day of the week. At least we know Reeds position.

JWP is a good example of what I call a gauge player. You can use him to identify the sort of fan you are;

 

if you think and say that JWP is a waste of space, then you are probably all about pub-game-sing-goals-pub-home. you watch through a beer glass (metaphorically) and often from the ends. you enjoy the fist pumping adrenaline of the game and are not so bothered about strategy or intellectual pursuits. probably slightly lower IQ, or drunk. you watch the ball, and you reward heart, big tackles, big goals, and assists.

 

If you think JWP is a super-talented England future captain, then you are probably more interested in tactics, shape and strategy. you watch from the sides or on TV and you are enthralled by off-the-ball movement. you watch the team and are interested in how different players work together. you may have a slightly higher IQ, and you probably don't sing much at the match. you notice build up movement, and not just the assist and the goal at the end. you are middle class and probably a bit of an areshole.

 

If you think JWP is a decent player with a good football brain, a superb delivery that we don't make the most of, and who has the potential to be better than we have seen so far, (and who must be good if Man City continue to monitor), then you are a rational fan. you watch the team, you support the players, you cheer when we score and you slump in your seat when we concede. you appreciate any player who gives it his best. (except Forster, who is currently devil incarnate and can do no right).

Interesting. But bull****.

given the choice, I'd have Harry Reed over him every day of the week. At least we know Reeds position.

On the bench for a crap Championship club.

The fact he couldn't get a game when we had Pelle in the side suggests that, either his crosses aren't as good as they're made out to be, or his weakness in other areas of the game are too great they cancel his crossing out.

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The fact he couldn't get a game when we had Pelle in the side suggests that, either his crosses aren't as good as they're made out to be, or his weakness in other areas of the game are too great they cancel his crossing out.

 

 

 

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Which season was it when Pelle was here that he didn't get a game?

On the bench for a crap Championship club.

My point exactly.....

The fact he couldn't get a game when we had Pelle in the side suggests that, either his crosses aren't as good as they're made out to be, or his weakness in other areas of the game are too great they cancel his crossing out.

 

 

 

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It would be interesting to know what percentage of his crosses go to opposition players. It appears that about 90% of them do.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of his crosses go to opposition players. It appears that about 90% of them do.

Is that because his crosses are poor or that the movement of our players in the box is poor...?

A bit of both i'd say. You can see it when he takes corners - they seem to be in a dangerous area but there's never anyone on the end of them. He'd be better off just trying to put it directly on someones head rather than aiming for a certain area and hoping someone will get to it.

How many goals have been scored, directly or indirectly, from his technically perfect set-piece deliveries in the last 6 years?

There's no doubt that he is a very talented, technically perfect, young lad

 

Factually incorrect. Can't shoot straight, can't head the ball, can't kick with his left foot, can't tackle, can't block anything, can't beat anyone with speed, no dribbling skills whatsoever, never EVER tackles anyone when defending in his own half, passes then runs away from who he has passed to. WhyTF is he playing for Saints? Answer............ Les Reed dickhead thinks he is the Bee's Knees. Dog help us with that four-eyed gnome in total control!

How many goals have been scored, directly or indirectly, from his technically perfect set-piece deliveries in the last 6 years?

Didn't someone post a stat the other day saying that, on average, the percentage of set-piece conversions across first class football as a whole is surprisingly low. Something like 3% IIRC?

I accept that we might have a worse conversion rate than the average, but overall the impact may be relatively insignificant?

Didn't someone post a stat the other day saying that, on average, the percentage of set-piece conversions across first class football as a whole is surprisingly low. Something like 3% IIRC?

 

I accept that we might have a worse conversion rate than the average, but overall the impact may be relatively insignificant?

I think our overall current shot to goal conversion rate is around 13% so I bet our set piece conversion rate is well below 3%.

Didn't someone post a stat the other day saying that, on average, the percentage of set-piece conversions across first class football as a whole is surprisingly low. Something like 3% IIRC?

 

I accept that we might have a worse conversion rate than the average, but overall the impact may be relatively insignificant?

But we are talking about technically perfect deliveries...

I would guess Sigurdsson's conversion ratio is rather higher than 3%, to give but one example.

Just Wide of the Post, dead ball ok , but with a moving ball or in the cut and thrust of the game he's painfully slow , how many break through seasons does he need?

I like to give all our players a lot of time to prove themselves. JWP has had a lot of PL games to do so....

 

12/13 - 15 games - 483 minutes

13/14 - 34 games - 1604 minutes

14/15 - 25 games - 1476 minutes

15/16 - 33 games - 1533 minutes

16/17 - 30 games - 1884 miuntes

17/18 - 4 games - 160 minutes

 

Total 141 games - 7 goals, 18 assists, a goal every 1020 minutes played

 

So the stats show that he has a **** poor goal scoring record. He should be getting at least 7-10 a season. So he is not fulfilling the AM/CM role.

 

He lacks an incisive pass. He generally passes sideways or backwards. He has no pace to beat people. He does not run at people with the ball. He doesn't tackle overly well. He doesn't head the ball. He can sometimes hit a dead ball pretty well.

 

He's in his 6th season with us and he isn't producing the goods. Isn't it time to move on to someone else? Or maybe he is considered to still be young (22) and that he might be able to produce something??

These stats prove he is not good enough....You would think the club use stats like this or others to see what each player has to offer the team....JWP should be loan out or off loaded.

I like to give all our players a lot of time to prove themselves. JWP has had a lot of PL games to do so....

 

12/13 - 15 games - 483 minutes

13/14 - 34 games - 1604 minutes

14/15 - 25 games - 1476 minutes

15/16 - 33 games - 1533 minutes

16/17 - 30 games - 1884 miuntes

17/18 - 4 games - 160 minutes

 

Total 141 games - 7 goals, 18 assists, a goal every 1020 minutes played

 

So the stats show that he has a **** poor goal scoring record. He should be getting at least 7-10 a season. So he is not fulfilling the AM/CM role.

 

He lacks an incisive pass. He generally passes sideways or backwards. He has no pace to beat people. He does not run at people with the ball. He doesn't tackle overly well. He doesn't head the ball. He can sometimes hit a dead ball pretty well.

 

He's in his 6th season with us and he isn't producing the goods. Isn't it time to move on to someone else? Or maybe he is considered to still be young (22) and that he might be able to produce something??

12/13 - 32 games - 2071 minutes

13/14 - 34 games - 2499 minutes

14/15 - 35 games - 2647 minutes

15/16 - 34 games - 2612 minutes

16/17 - 32 games - 2643 minutes

17/18 - 4 games - 350 minutes

Total 171 games - 9 goals, 18 assists, a goal every 1425 minutes played

Bit unfair to bash JWP for his stats when our most lauded-yet-underrated midfielder's stats are actually worse. What's more, they've occupied very similar positions in their time at Saints, operating as both deep and attacking central midfielders, so the comparison is about as fair as you'll get. I rate JWP's technique striking a dead ball but don't think he's an exceptional player, and nor is he likely to become one having reached this stage in his career (though that's not to say that he wont be a completely serviceable master-of-none midfielder for many years yet).

What this does illustrate perfectly though is how some of our players get completely battered on here, while one in particular is regarded as spotless, despite having an almost identical (or even inferior) impact on the outcome of games. It's very, very odd.

12/13 - 32 games - 2071 minutes

13/14 - 34 games - 2499 minutes

14/15 - 35 games - 2647 minutes

15/16 - 34 games - 2612 minutes

16/17 - 32 games - 2643 minutes

17/18 - 4 games - 350 minutes

 

Total 171 games - 9 goals, 18 assists, a goal every 1425 minutes played

 

Bit unfair to bash JWP for his stats when our most lauded-yet-underrated midfielder's stats are actually worse. What's more, they've occupied very similar positions in their time at Saints, operating as both deep and attacking central midfielders, so the comparison is about as fair as you'll get. I rate JWP's technique striking a dead ball but don't think he's an exceptional player, and nor is he likely to become one having reached this stage in his career (though that's not to say that he wont be a completely serviceable master-of-none midfielder for many years yet).

 

What this does illustrate perfectly though is how some of our players get completely battered on here, while one in particular is regarded as spotless, despite having an almost identical (or even inferior) impact on the outcome of games. It's very, very odd.

I take your point, although those stats are purely offensive. I think most would agree that Davis offers more defensively in terms of pressing and tackling and is also quicker to cover space.

I take your point, although those stats are purely offensive. I think most would agree that Davis offers more defensively in terms of pressing and tackling and is also quicker to cover space.

Once upon a time maybe, but they're much of a muchness these days in terms of pressing, closing and giving the ball away in dangerous positions, and have been at least the last two seasons. Which just leaves JWP's marginally more productive attacking contribution.

The fact JWP hasn't yet had his chance to prove himself with regular games in League 1 or 2 is very harsh on the lad. I know I've been critical of his performances in the past, but to be fair to him he's playing in the big boys league when he's only Under 10s. Anyone in the same position as him would struggle.

He is in desperate need of a loan move to try and resurrect his career. The fact he keeps being chosen to play in the Premier League is just unfair on him - as it would be if any of us suddenly had to don our boots and play in midfield for the Saints. We'd all be god awful too!

You don't loan players out who have been a (semi) regular for 5 or 6 years.

**** me, there's pony and then there's ashnats pony.

 

He is an intelligent player, with a decent technique, touch & football brain. However, he is slow, weak and just can't impose his skills on the game. We binned Juanmi once this became apparent & im pretty sure we'd have binned JWP had he been a foreign signing. People who say he'll come good are running out of time imo . He's getting further & further away from becoming a regular. He really should be pushing Davo for a start but he's nowhere near. He was adequate last season in a wide right role, whether that was down to Claude's coaching (and before others start, plenty of players have praised his 1-1 coaching in the past), or whether it's down to that being his natural role is unclear. The only way to find out is to give him games and we just can't afford that. He needs to be playing week in week out. He clearly needs a loan, maybe to the championship or even France or Holland. At the moment he's just not good enough.

 

 

 

 

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He is an intelligent player, with a decent technique, touch & football brain.

I do, and always have disagreed with this assessment. He is coached, and coached well, and has learned it well but does not have the natural instincts to see space, to recognise a possible run, to pick a pass, he cannot dribble, his body positions at time are of someone who is consciously thinking "left foot here, right foot there, body at 45.3 degrees and xx" rather than (and it's a good example because this player was a purely instinctive talent) Ronaldinho who could make things happen that most couldn't even contemplate because he did have this 'brain'. Ibrahimovic is another example of an instinctive player as is Rashford (who is younger than JWP and a far better player) as is Trent Alexander-Arnold at L'Pool, as is Solly March as is...the list goes on.

As to Angelman's point about giving people time (which is so obvious, but it is worrying that it has to be stated) some things are apparent quite quickly e.g. lack of pace. That is unlikely to change dramatically and the intelligent footballer (and fan) expect a player to make up for that in some way once it's identified and given that's it's going to be a fixed part of someone's game it's pointless for some to say 'it'll improve'. The thing is though that JWP isn't someone who will dribble with the ball, use pace, do this, do that. He has what attributes he has and given the speed of the game he has to work on instincts and his instincts are to be a crab. I knew a lad who was really fast but hadn't much skill. I knew someone who had tons of skill but was bloody slow. Both in some way could offer a lot but their deficiencies, even with coaching, would have meant they couldn't make it professionally. That applies to lots and lots of players. If SFC are screening players for a number of attributes are they screening out the important ones: e.g. natural sportsmen who might be a bit **** in front of a camera when being interviewed (e.g. Harry Kane), but are footballers (e.g. Harry Kane)?

A bit of both i'd say. You can see it when he takes corners - they seem to be in a dangerous area but there's never anyone on the end of them. He'd be better off just trying to put it directly on someones head rather than aiming for a certain area and hoping someone will get to it.

He's over-trained and incapable of varying what he does. A intelligent footballer (e.g. Josh Sims) will keep changing things and adapting to the play to make things happen, to keep the opposition on their toes, because he likes playing in a more expansive fashion, etc. A less capable one will just 'do as he's told'. Must be why Les Reed likes him.

You must be watching a different player to me then. He looked out of place and didn't have a good game on Saturday, but the thing about his delivery is exactly that it's _not_ hit and hope and high but whipped in and away from the keeper. we just don't commit players enough to get on the end of them.

 

Criticise by all means, but that's not a legitimate point.

Maybe his choice of delivery is wrong? So what if it looks nice and has a good curve to it? If it relies to have a head on the end of it (and VVD missed a few last season e.g. Inter away) and the better ball is something else why isn't the right or optimum decision being made? His dead ball deliveries are better than the ones where it's moving but they seem to be all sizzle, no steak.

He's over-trained and incapable of varying what he does. A intelligent footballer (e.g. Josh Sims) will keep changing things and adapting to the play to make things happen, to keep the opposition on their toes, because he likes playing in a more expansive fashion, etc. A less capable one will just 'do as he's told'. Must be why Les Reed likes him.

Yeh because Sims is tearing up trees in the premier league! ?

Some of the opinions on here are just ridiculous. Should be getting 7-10 goals a season? If he was playing as a "10"/second striker for a top team maybe.

For a player that has been playing out wide, in a more backwards midfield role and sometimes as a "10" his goalscoring record a about where it should be.

I understand JWP is a player that frustrates from time to time. He's got attributes that are top-top quality (passing, set-pieces) but also some that are below average (pace, dribbling & strength). This makes it difficult to find the right position for him. He needs to have the play in front of him to effectively use his passing but at the same time he can't really be relied upon defensively enough to be a a proper DM. Out wide his lack of pace and dribbling become obvious but on the other hand he gets to put in crosses. The number 10 position can work if he has two forwards ahead of him making runs, if its just the one then he needs to create chances for himself which just isn't going to happen.

In short you have to create a position for him to be effective for me that is either out wide with a very offensive RB overlapping or in a Pirlo role as a deep-lying playmaker without to much defensive responsibility. Perhaps a more offensive role for Lemina making late runs into the box with JWP and Romeu behind could work in our current system?

Otherwise I think a 4-1-2-1-2 with a diamond in the middle could bring out the best in JWP.

Example:

---------------Forster-------------

Cedric-Stephens-Hoedt-Bertrand

--------------Romeu--------------

--------JWP----------Lemina-----

--------------Tadic----------------

----Gabbiandini-Redmond-------

Some of the opinions on here are just ridiculous. Should be getting 7-10 goals a season? If he was playing as a "10"/second striker for a top team maybe.

 

For a player that has been playing out wide, in a more backwards midfield role and sometimes as a "10" his goalscoring record a about where it should be.

 

I understand JWP is a player that frustrates from time to time. He's got attributes that are top-top quality (passing, set-pieces) but also some that are below average (pace, dribbling & strength). This makes it difficult to find the right position for him. He needs to have the play in front of him to effectively use his passing but at the same time he can't really be relied upon defensively enough to be a a proper DM. Out wide his lack of pace and dribbling become obvious but on the other hand he gets to put in crosses. The number 10 position can work if he has two forwards ahead of him making runs, if its just the one then he needs to create chances for himself which just isn't going to happen.

 

In short you have to create a position for him to be effective for me that is either out wide with a very offensive RB overlapping or in a Pirlo role as a deep-lying playmaker without to much defensive responsibility. Perhaps a more offensive role for Lemina making late runs into the box with JWP and Romeu behind could work in our current system?

 

Otherwise I think a 4-1-2-1-2 with a diamond in the middle could bring out the best in JWP.

 

Example:

---------------Forster-------------

Cedric-Stephens-Hoedt-Bertrand

--------------Romeu--------------

--------JWP----------Lemina-----

--------------Tadic----------------

----Gabbiandini-Redmond-------

I always breathe a sigh of relief when I see he's not in the lineup to sabotage our chances.

I always breathe a sigh of relief when I see he's not in the lineup to sabotage our chances.

Me too.

I always breathe a sigh of relief when I see he's not in the lineup to sabotage our chances.

Through your, mouth no doubt

Through your, mouth no doubt

Tempted to suggest giving Ward-Prowse a few games in that wide left role. Can't be any worse than Redmond was today. At least we'll get good crosses into the box. In fact, I do suggest it.

Tempted to suggest giving Ward-Prowse a few games in that wide left role. Can't be any worse than Redmond was today. At least we'll get good crosses into the box. In fact, I do suggest it.

Why he's rubbish.

Why he's rubbish.

Redmond is rubbish... So we might as well try something different.

Why hes not played regularly on the right am role I'm lost? Has he has a run at this that I missed?

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Once upon a time maybe, but they're much of a muchness these days in terms of pressing, closing and giving the ball away in dangerous positions, and have been at least the last two seasons. Which just leaves JWP's marginally more productive attacking contribution.

So today proved the above to be wrong as Davis, in his better position, gave a great class in tireless pressing and leading from the front.

Once upon a time maybe, but they're much of a muchness these days in terms of pressing, closing and giving the ball away in dangerous positions, and have been at least the last two seasons. Which just leaves JWP's marginally more productive attacking contribution.

So today proved the above to be wrong as Davis, in his better position, gave a great class in tireless pressing and leading from the front.

So today proved the above to be wrong as Davis, in his better position, gave a great class in tireless pressing and leading from the front.

He did good work in the build up and it was a decent finish, but it was also his first goal in 16 months according to the commentator. Moreover, if you think that was a consummate attacking midfield performance, then you're very easily pleased. The only other thing Davis did of note was overhit a simple pass into touch on the left that would've put someone (Lemina maybe) clean through. Bearing in mind Forster's two point blank saves, Palace's attack forged more and better chances than we did.

Tempted to suggest giving Ward-Prowse a few games in that wide left role. Can't be any worse than Redmond was today. At least we'll get good crosses into the box. In fact, I do suggest it.

Me too. I don't count myself in the anti- Redmond camp but he was poor against Palace particularly in the first half. We'd at least benefit from JWP's dead ball deliveries.

Through your, mouth no doubt

Where do you sigh then, you freak? Through your nostrils? Engage your limited brain before you insult people.

Worrying times for England's Under 21 captain James Ward-Prowse who seems to be falling out of favour under new Southampton boss Mauricio Pellegrino.

The current star product of the club's academy, dragged off at half time during last week's 2-0 home defeat by Watford, played only the final five minutes off the bench in the win at Crystal Palace.

After winning a regular place in the team under Claude Puel last season it was the third time he's been left out of a Premier League starting line-up already this season, and he's been taken off early in both his other appearances.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4894608/Fabregas-favour-Chelsea-10-THINGS-LEARNED.html#ixzz4t2Estnto

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Worrying times for England's Under 21 captain James Ward-Prowse who seems to be falling out of favour under new Southampton boss Mauricio Pellegrino.

The current star product of the club's academy, dragged off at half time during last week's 2-0 home defeat by Watford, played only the final five minutes off the bench in the win at Crystal Palace.

After winning a regular place in the team under Claude Puel last season it was the third time he's been left out of a Premier League starting line-up already this season, and he's been taken off early in both his other appearances.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4894608/Fabregas-favour-Chelsea-10-THINGS-LEARNED.html#ixzz4t2Estnto

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

He only played lots under Puel because of a lack of decent options Lemina is everything JWP isn't.

Will someone show this to MP and JWP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2yY3z9wNsc

Beckham had limited pace and never beat a player in his life, but with a willing overlapping full back to create space he was very effective.

What do you expect from the lad. He is an effective player for an upper mid table club in one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's played getting on for 200 games for the club, played for the England set up and was only recently talked about as a prospect for a full cap and yet he is only in his early 20's. He's got competition for his spot but gives it his best.

Ok - he isn't Hazard, Kante or Messi but he is a whole hearted honest player. We should be proud of him and pleased to have him in our club.

Highfield, I don't think many are dumping on him because we want to, but because he seems not to be offering a huge amount to the team. As you say, it is one of the toughest leagues in the world, and that means you can't carry passengers. As Saints supporters, I think that bringing through our own has to be one of the highlights, and it seems that with JWP, we might have hit the buffers.

Me, I questioned how long you give him to show what he can do. It is easy to forget that he is only 22, but the fact is, he has been semi/regular in the side for 6 years now. How much longer do you give him?

Highfield, I don't think many are dumping on him because we want to, but because he seems not to be offering a huge amount to the team. As you say, it is one of the toughest leagues in the world, and that means you can't carry passengers. As Saints supporters, I think that bringing through our own has to be one of the highlights, and it seems that with JWP, we might have hit the buffers.

 

Me, I questioned how long you give him to show what he can do. It is easy to forget that he is only 22, but the fact is, he has been semi/regular in the side for 6 years now. How much longer do you give him?

Given most players hit their peak at the age of around 25-27 i'd say until he's at least 25-27

What do you expect from the lad. He is an effective player for an upper mid table club in one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's played getting on for 200 games for the club, played for the England set up and was only recently talked about as a prospect for a full cap and yet he is only in his early 20's. He's got competition for his spot but gives it his best.

 

Ok - he isn't Hazard, Kante or Messi but he is a whole hearted honest player. We should be proud of him and pleased to have him in our club.

Oh come on he's not up to it. League 1 player.

Oh come on he's not up to it. League 1 player.

League 1 player?

Given most players hit their peak at the age of around 25-27 i'd say until he's at least 25-27

Can't see him being given another 3-5 years unless he provides. The annoying thing is, I think most would see that he is a very skillful player and that it is the application that is lacking a bit.

What do you expect from the lad. He is an effective player for an upper mid table club in one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's played getting on for 200 games for the club, played for the England set up and was only recently talked about as a prospect for a full cap and yet he is only in his early 20's. He's got competition for his spot but gives it his best.

 

Ok - he isn't Hazard, Kante or Messi but he is a whole hearted honest player. We should be proud of him and pleased to have him in our club.

Wholehearted player is exactly what he isn't. I rarely see him battling for possession or busting a gut to get to the ball. In most 50/50 situations he gives up far too easily. He often feins that he is going to tackle and then doesn't bother, which causes problems for his team mates. Romeu and Lemina are whole hearted players; Ward-Prowse isn't.